3 classes in hockey?

puckjazz · Post by **puckjazz** » Fri Dec 23, 2005 1:57 pm

After the first third of the season, seeing some of the scores I've heard several people comment on the 2 class system. Obviously when you see a team like AHA so clearly dominate all of their opponants, teams like STA beat up on So Saint Paul - what 14 - 0 it makes you wonder if the current system works for MN high school hockey now. Consider this - 3 classes - note the enrollment sizes are just for discussion, these could be adjusted up or down say by 250. class AAA with the private schools (Shattuck, AHA, HM, CDH, STA, Blake, etc) and the "mega" schools like Eden Prararie, Centennial, WBL (eg schools with enrollment over 2000) etc. Class AA - community schools with enrollment 500 - 2000, would enclude schools like the Lakeville schools, Rochester, teams from up north (except perhaps Moorhead and Duluth East), Apple Valley, Rosemont, Shakopee, Northfield, Rochester schools, etc Small schools such as teams out west - Litchfield, Albertville, So ST Paul, etc Overall the point would be to make a more competetive "middle" class with a nice blend of larger and smaller community based schools, give some opportunity to the smaller schools to be competative, and give the private schools some competition from the super big schools. Good idea? <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/eek.gif ALT=":eek"> <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/eyes.gif ALT=":rolleyes">

Zamman · Post by **Zamman** » Fri Dec 23, 2005 2:55 pm

Not really... People got upset when we went to the 2 class system a third class just makes it tougher to deal with. What happens then when a tema like BSM or AHA or CDH stop winning, then we need to realign and then one of them starts winning again and round and round it goes. too much movement. It ain't broke, don't fix it... JMO ________________________________ Academy of Holy Angels 2005 GIRLS STATE CHAMPS! 2002 & 2005 BOYS STATE CHAMPS!! GO STARS!!

scottparker · Post by **scottparker** » Fri Dec 23, 2005 2:56 pm

That has some merit, except that you blanket all private schools into one class, and that just doesn't fit any more than putting all private schools into one class. Holy Family, St. Cloud Cathedral, Providence Academy (yet), and a few others are real class A schools, and are not on par with Blake, Breck, AHA, etc. Duluth Marshall is close, and could go either way I suppose. How about two classes, the "Haves" and the "Have-Nots"??

BobbyOrrfan · Post by **BobbyOrrfan** » Fri Dec 23, 2005 3:22 pm

Bad idea...3 classes wouldn't cause AD's to change the regular season schedules much...the blow-outs you noted (Hastings 16-2 over Greenway, STA 14 - 0 over SSP would still occur)...so while I'd prefer just one class with a 16 team field...the present system is just fine...at least the A schools that have won State recently have been competitive with the top AA programs...and having only two champions makes hockey stand out from the other sports AND IT SHOULD.

MN HOCKEY NUT · Post by **MN HOCKEY NUT** » Fri Dec 23, 2005 3:24 pm

How about one class and kids learning that part of life is learning to lose. It's the state torunament, the concept of the state torunament isn't that every team gets to play in it. Teams can play whoever they want during the season and have a competitive season agaist teams more there skill level. They don't need to have there own class though. I have had it with the PC world we live in today!

puckjazz · Post by **puckjazz** » Fri Dec 23, 2005 3:42 pm

Hey, that's an encouraging thought ... "How about one class and kids learning that part of life is learning to lose." A system that encourages migration to the super teams - a la AHA, HM, etc and tells all the kids in community based programs (admittedly once every decade a small school may crack the top <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/glasses.gif ALT="8)"> - hey losers its part of life! I'm not sure that's going to do much to help MN hockey grow in terms of participation.

MN HOCKEY NUT · Post by **MN HOCKEY NUT** » Fri Dec 23, 2005 3:50 pm

No one called them losers, but why should all these teams get to go to the state torunament. Because once we do this, then all the smaller schools in the biggest class will say its not fair and that they can't compete. But we the schools in the middle class wont want to play them either. So now we need to create a 4th class. The a 5th, then a 6th. It will be just like football. Lets just make sections part of the state tournament, that way every team every year can say that they went to state. The whole idea of the the state tournament is that it is hard to get to. If 24 teams or more go to state each year, the state tournament loses its meaning. And what are you talking about community programs??? Other than private schools, they are all communuty programs.

gr19 · Post by **gr19** » Fri Dec 23, 2005 4:10 pm

Piss on the whole thing if the add another class. It's all WCHA and NHL after that. Go back to one class.

jeanbeliveau4 · Post by **jeanbeliveau4** » Fri Dec 23, 2005 4:13 pm

I agree with GR19 Go back to one class!!! We all know the state tournament would mean even more then it does now. Just like the good ol' days???? <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/glasses.gif ALT="8)">

hawkfan70 · Post by **hawkfan70** » Fri Dec 23, 2005 4:40 pm

I am not really sure what side of the fence I am on here. One class and the best players will continually migrate to the traditional hockey powers via open enrollment and also to private schools in hopes of being "seen". We all know that if you are good enough, they will find you anywhere. 3 classes and the tournament is so watered down with teams that it means nothing anymore. It is obvious that many northern teams are hurting for players and for that, we have co-op programs. I can only assume that the south and western teams have some of the same problems. This seems to have solved alot of problems with declining enrollment issues as far as hockey is concerned. Smaller programs will continue to have up and down years, as will a few larger programs. As for me, I am happy to be in sinlge A and to not have to worry about playing schools that have 150 kids try out for the team. (we had 35 try out I think)

puckjazz · Post by **puckjazz** » Fri Dec 23, 2005 5:55 pm

Good points all, but I'm not yet convinced. Responding first to : "It is obvious that many northern teams are hurting for players and for that, we have co-op programs. I can only assume that the south and western teams have some of the same problems. This seems to have solved alot of problems with declining enrollment issues as far as hockey is concerned." I'd say this is a similar problem for some metro teams too. And also for Roch and Lakeville that have had to "share" players between several schools. Second, I just don't buy it that a second (or even third championship) cheapens the experience or rewards for the boys involved. I can't believe that any of the AHA players last year felt dissappointed that their championship was one of two. I didn't see any of that in the Warroad's players reactions either. A "community program" in my mind is one that has players go to school in the district (many for their entire K-12 time), play in the amateur association of the community and then play in the HS program. The private schools don't qualify here. The big schools, eg EP or Centennial, have so many students tthat they can be competative to a private school that draws from multiple communities. Although that can be a stretch even for them. AHA again draws from a population base of possibly 1 million people. If you do the math - not my strong point - but say there is 1 div 1 player per 15000 people (a reasonable sized small community); this translates to 67 D1 players in the 1 million drawing area. Of course there is competition for all of these, but if a dominant program even gets 1/4 of these players were talking about 15 high quality players on the team. Pretty tough to compete against. And that I guess is my point, the current situation in Minnesota Hockey, with open enrollemnt and high profile programs is just not competing in the same game. Thus it makes sense to consider differnent classes. Finally, don't get me wrong, I have great respect for the big programs. I don't mean to diminish their accomplishments. I'd just like to see a little more even playing field.

RGGspartan · Post by **RGGspartan** » Fri Dec 23, 2005 6:05 pm

How about we keep it the way it is!!! A and AA!! BUT---NO OPEN ENROLLMENT OR RECRUITING FOR PRIVATE SCHOOLS.<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/tongue.gif ALT=":b"> ------IN OTHER WORDS "NO MORE CHEATING"----<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/laugh.gif ALT=":lol"> This goes out to all city and private schools!!!!!!!!!<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/wink.gif ALT=";)"> Edited by: <A HREF=http://p100.ezboard.com/bmnhs.showUserP ... spartan</A> at: 12/23/05 6:14 pm

Knowlze · Post by **Knowlze** » Fri Dec 23, 2005 7:13 pm

One class, so we determine THE Champion, and it means something. Is more state tournament participation by players the most important? If so, then have 78 classes, so all but one team participates in the state tournament. Give the last ranked team that doesn't participate, the Sportmanship Trophy, and everyone is rewarded. Anything between either of these extremes diminishes one or the other or both.

RinkRat10506 · Post by **RinkRat10506** » Fri Dec 23, 2005 10:23 pm

There are some good points for three classes, but I believe we should stick with what we have right now. I don't think a one class system would work as well as it use to. There have been many more teams that have developed since the one class days. I know for sure that right now the three class system would be beneficial to teams such as Mora, Pine City, Cambridge, Winona, Dodge County, Two Harbors, Moose Lake, and a bunch of other teams also. This state tourney though would be pretty boring to watch though.

Ohfor32 · Post by **Ohfor32** » Sat Dec 24, 2005 11:15 am

In the good old days, <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/wink.gif ALT=";)"> they had a two class State tourney. The big show was played in the metro and THE PRIVATE was played in Duluth. Also, the "back door" section was the looser of section 7, playing the looser of section 8. The north always had three teams in the big show. To be considered north back then, any school south of Hwy 2 was considered South!<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/embarassed.gif ALT=":o"> A sweet 16 would be GREAT! Each Section has two teams, Champion & Runner up. The champion of each section, number 1 seed, would play a runner up, number 2 seed, in the opening round. After that let er buck! One winner, a True STATE CHAMPION!<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/eek.gif ALT=":eek"> Do ya think that the house would be a rockin?<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/ohwell.gif ALT=":\"> Do ya think that you could sell some tickets? <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/ohwell.gif ALT=":\"> Do ya think the MSHSL could pay for other tments that don't draw?<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)"> Might be a good Economics lesson.<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/pimp.gif ALT=":hat">

IfishAlot · Post by **IfishAlot** » Sat Dec 24, 2005 6:37 pm

Keep 2-class system... with a few tweaks to it... 1. Option to GO DOWN in CLASS.... Many teams have not shown they can compete at the AA level, whether it's losing kids to other schools, being a new school, or just plain not being any good, why not let them opt down for a couple years, with approval of the MSHSL. This will eliminate AA teams from losing players, A lot of good players don't leave their teams to go to other schools to get more exposure, they leave to have a chance to win Championships. Face it people, if your good enought to make it, it doesn't matter how big of school you play for, your in Minnesota, YOU'LL GET NOTICED!!! 2. Forced to go up in class..... If a class A dominates their sectiom and goes to state 4 years in a row, why not make them go up a class for 2 years? After the 2 years give them the option to stay up or go back down. This should open up the Class A tournament so you don't see the same teams in it every year. I know what your all going to say is that this takes out the Section Rivalries that are such a big part of Minnesota hockey, but if a team has won the section 4 years in a row, how big of rivalry is it? Or if a team wins state, you could make them go up in class for 2 years and then give them the option, but this eliminates the excitement of repeat champioships. But who knows it's just an idea. Obviously this is not close to a fool-proof system, but it's not my job to make it foolproof, it's just some ideas that may work a little bit.

hockeymind · Post by **hockeymind** » Sat Dec 24, 2005 8:18 pm

why not have the champion of AA play the champion of A to see who the undesputed champion is.

Ohfor32 · Post by **Ohfor32** » Sat Dec 24, 2005 9:16 pm

bobber watcher, Great Idea, but that was basically the two tier system. <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/laugh.gif ALT=":lol"> What was happening with that system was that teams on the 'edge" of moving up were, ahhum," making roster adjustment" in late season games or scheduling games or joining confrences with teams that were way above the level off their team.<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/wink.gif ALT=";)"> I think Rosemont, someone correct me if I'm wrong, made it to the Tier II Tment with a record of like 3 and 23, but the were in the Lake Conference.<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/eek.gif ALT=":eek"> Also I can recall rumors that Sauk Rapids made some "roster adjustments" in its last few games to "make sure everybody got a chance to play".<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/happy.gif ALT=":D"> If the MSHSL is truly concerned about teaching lifes lessions, they would go back to 8 teams or go to a sweet 16. Is it really fair for a team to have the "State Tournament" experence, when a team far more superior is watching from the rafters of the Excel?<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/pimp.gif ALT=":hat"> stichmylipsi'mtherodentinthecorner

frozen · Post by **frozen** » Sun Dec 25, 2005 3:08 am

three classes? would love to see it, but unfortunatly, it would never happen.. <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/pimp.gif ALT=":hat"> there'd be no hockey if the water wasn't FROZEN

Tuukblade · Post by **Tuukblade** » Sun Dec 25, 2005 11:17 pm

Two classes is fine for now. Open enrollment is the issue that needs attention. Edited by: <A HREF=http://p100.ezboard.com/bmnhs.showUserP ... ukblade</A> at: 12/25/05 11:20 pm

zeph517 · Post by **zeph517** » Mon Dec 26, 2005 8:25 pm

Sweet 16 would be the way to go! Like the outher guy said...the place would be full and rockin!!! Man that would be great!

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