Why the Ann Arbor Program is not good.

cliff77
Posts: 43
Joined: Wed May 28, 2003 3:23 pm

Why the Ann Arbor Program is not good.

Post by cliff77 » Wed May 28, 2003 3:23 pm

This subject started in the Mueller thread and I will continue it here with this new thread.<br><br>There are many reasons why USA Hockey's NTDP program in Ann Arbor is not good. I will try to list them in order of importance. I am sure my list will not be complete, but I am also sure others will add to it.<br><br>1. Playing hockey well, is about being confident, secure and happy off the ice. Plucking a kid from his high school and family environment and sending him to a strange billet family and a strange huge high school in a strange new city does not promote confidence, security or happiness. Most 16 and 17 year old boys need those two years with their families and high school friends.<br><br>2. Hockey at the NDTP in Ann Arbor is not fun. It is very hard work and becomes a job. They are on the ice or working out six days per week. They play typically 60 to 64 games. They play against 20 year olds who want to rip their "USA Hockey" heads off. They endure long bus rides to get there. And they rarely win more than 30% of their games. This year their record was 19-41-1. <br><br>3. Many of the kids who leave home at this age are not mature enough to do so. Of the three kids I refered to in a previous post, two of them had off-ice issues. Had they been living with their parents and going to their normal high school they might not have had these issues. Or at least they could have been dealt with first hand, and not via long distance telephone.<br><br>4. The NDTP is a huge waste of money, spending $2,000,000 on 50 kids. Last year's MN High School Elite League did more to further the careers of many more prospective D1'ers with $100,000 than USA Hockey did with their $2 million.<br><br>5. USA Hockey's NDTP program doesn't get the best players in the country. There were at least 8 ea. U-17's who declined the offer for last year's team.<br><br>I am not saying this program is not for anyone. You just have to live, live, live for hockey in order to really enjoy it there.<br><br>I spoke to a player this spring who did very well hockey-wise there this year and has a D1 scholarship under his belt. Overall, he was positive about his experience, but did comment that he was sick of hockey and ready for it to be over. This was in February.<br><br>Another player who in my estimation did not have a good experience there commented, "The bus rides are the most fun because I am away from my billet family and with my buddies, and I'm not getting beat up on the ice."<br><br>My comments above are based on discussions with and observations of numerous young hockey players whom I have had the pleasure to know over the years. I have no axe to grind. My kids have been very successful in hockey and have played at very high levels. However, I do get pissed off every time I have to pay another $25 or more, for another USA Hockey registration or event of some sort, and realize where 2 million of these dollars are going.<br><br>There are better ways to pick "National Teams" and develop better American players.<br> <p></p><i></i>

joe lulic
Posts: 284
Joined: Mon Jul 29, 2002 1:30 pm

Re: Why the Ann Arbor Program is not good.

Post by joe lulic » Wed May 28, 2003 3:51 pm

Dont people understand this going in? If not, why? Are they being sold snake oil? I mean, dont the parents take the time to investigate what this is all about before they send a 16-17 year old kid into this? <br><br>What you describe doesnt sound like a good environment for a kid but dont they know this going in or are they so "star struck" at being invited that it doesnt sink in until they get there?<br><br>64 games? Against who? I suppose that is part of the problem. You can "manufacture" a team but it is hard to manufacture a league to play in. <br><br>The kids that you talked to, are they leaving? How long is the stay? <p></p><i></i>

cliff77
Posts: 43
Joined: Wed May 28, 2003 3:23 pm

Ann Arbor

Post by cliff77 » Wed May 28, 2003 4:08 pm

<br>The parents aren't necessarily sold a bill of goods, but on the other hand they are not told the entire story either. Moreover, a lot of these parents hear what they want to hear, and become star struck at the thought of their kid wearing the USA Hockey jersey.<br><br>The league they mostly play in is the NAHL, which is a failing, second tier junior A league. This year, they had two teams fall out of the league, and one leave it for the USHL. Their league champion, Pittsburgh, has fiscal problems and virtually no fan base.<br><br>One of the kids I talked to is staying. The other is weighing his options and considering a junior A team.<br><br>The bottom line is, almost all of these kids would get to the D1 or even the NHL level if they progressed normally, at home, in their high school and elite programs. What this program, or any program set up like this can do, is accelerate a kid too quickly, and actually end his hockey career prematurely. <p></p><i></i>

bdabbt75
Posts: 78
Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2002 12:04 pm

it wasn't always that way

Post by bdabbt75 » Wed May 28, 2003 7:38 pm

the U-18 team used to play most of it's game against the USHL 2 years ago. It used to win a significant number of it's games.<br><br>Why has that changed?<br><br><br>Has the coaching staff changed dramatically? Has the recruitment process changed? Is the advent of Tier-1 Junior A sucking some of the marrow out of this (with mandatory U-18 players on each Tier 1 team). <br><br>and Tier 1... isn't that a USA hockey 'development' requirement? Do we have crossed purposes?<br><br>It was my understanding that the NTDP was purely to improve the international competitiveness of Junior teams selected to compete, by having a core nucleus playing nearly year round. They don't give a hoot about developing players for D1 or NHL, although that's the byproduct. <br><br>If I'm to paraphrase a couple of years of rants on this... the bottom line is if USA Hockey spent that $2mill a year providing year round ice for players to show up and play pond hockey pick-up games... having fun, working on the base skills (stick, shoot, skate), and less time on the left wing lock and paying off Pioneer HS in Ann Arbor for the open enrollment issues... we'd have a better national team, and likely a lot more 'real good players' as well. <br><br>I don't think it's that simple... 2 years ago, this was working... now it sucks. It can't be just because of the concept. I think we've lost some key decision makers (eaves?) along the way.<br><br><br>btw, I don't think parents have changed;-) <br><br>- bud <p></p><i></i>

Hckygurl06
Posts: 1
Joined: Wed May 28, 2003 8:33 pm

Its not how u say it is

Post by Hckygurl06 » Wed May 28, 2003 8:33 pm

Ok Cliff...I'm not trying to sound rude...but when you say it becomes a job for them.....if the guys love hockey enough, they wouldn't consider it a job! I personally know some guys that went there.. they didn't consider it that way at all..because they love the game so much! <br><br>And another thing...most of the time the guys decide they want to go..not the parents, the parents aren't going to stop the kids from doing what they love to do and to get to their dreams....a good parent would let them go if they had the chance! You gotta make sacrifices for the things you really want to do...and they are doing that<br><br>I agree that they are spending a lot of money on it all, but still...it's their dreams..you cant put a price on that!<br><br>thanks <p></p><i></i>

joe lulic
Posts: 284
Joined: Mon Jul 29, 2002 1:30 pm

What is the benefit?

Post by joe lulic » Thu May 29, 2003 8:00 am

Here is what I dont get. A 17 year old high school kid goes to Ann Arbor for one year. He gets his diploma, spends some time in Juniors and then plays at the U for 3 years. He is drafted at some point along the way and skips his senior year of college to sign with the NHL. Sound familiar?<br>What in the heck difference would it make if he spent his last year in high school instead of at the NTDP? How can you convice someone it would make a difference long term? It would make more sense if they pulled kids out of college instead of high school. <p></p><i></i>

gferhock1
Posts: 79
Joined: Thu May 29, 2003 8:44 am

Re: What is the benefit?

Post by gferhock1 » Thu May 29, 2003 8:44 am

I have to add my two cents worth on this topic. I agree the Ann Arbor program needs an overhaul, I have close friends in the area that tell me thier view of the "good and bad" from the USA hockey so-called developemental program. But to say all kids should stay in their high school program and expect to get somewhere is were I disagree. If you arent from a certain AA school you will likely get over looked. If your coach isnt into promoting players then you deal with that issue. Class A schools arent considered by many hockey people a viable place to find talent. In fact many AA schools fall into that group. We should agree that more talented players will get overlooked than found, mainly because of the politics involved. Most high school programs are a joke, selects is more political than the DNC and the elite league will likely turn political once parents figure out the system. I believe that players need to set their goals and look at all options, when considered I think Jr's vs High School is for some kids, not all but some of them. Education and life experiences will shape our kids for the future, hockey is one by product of that. If one in a thousand is fortunate enough to work hard and be in the right place at the right time, then they will live out thier dream in the NHL. The rest will hopefully be model citizens and carry on the sport for future kids. <p></p><i></i>

blackeye
Posts: 85
Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2002 3:59 pm

Don't Bother

Post by blackeye » Thu May 29, 2003 8:56 am

<!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :rolleyes --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... s/eyes.gif ALT=":rolleyes"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <br><br>hckygurl<br><br>Don't bother when you see these names on a topic. <br><br>They don't want discussion, they want like minded comments to agree with them and tell them how smart they are. They can't see anything good in something they don't agree with. <br><br> <p></p><i></i>

cliff77
Posts: 43
Joined: Wed May 28, 2003 3:23 pm

Ann Arbor

Post by cliff77 » Thu May 29, 2003 9:16 am

Wow Blackeye! Sounds like someone who needs to improve his or her debating skills.<br><br>Please stay on the topic. <p></p><i></i>

joe lulic
Posts: 284
Joined: Mon Jul 29, 2002 1:30 pm

Re: Ann Arbor

Post by joe lulic » Thu May 29, 2003 10:50 am

If someone can offer a justification for this program from a financial and/or developmental standpoint, lets hear it. It would be great to know that the 2 million dollars hockey families spend on it is moeny well spent. It would great to hear how it makes hockey better. <p></p><i></i>

Hammy
Posts: 9
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2003 11:27 am

NTDP

Post by Hammy » Thu May 29, 2003 11:15 am

The post above where it was said:<br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>most of the time the guys decide they want to go..not the parents, the parents aren't going to stop the kids from doing what they love to do and to get to their dreams....a good parent would let them go if they had the chance! <hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>The above is utter B.S. in my eyes. First of all, any good parent is going to discuss the pluses and minuses of the situation with the kid and make a mutual decision on it. A parent who is going to let the decision rest solely on the shoulders of a child is a MORON in my book. We aren't talking about taking a trip to the local library here.... we are talking about moving 100s of miles away and making a life altering decision. A experienced adult is needed for decisions like this.<br><br>A few other points:<br><br>1. Not every kid needs to stay home to become well developed. Some kids can thrive away from home. I don't feel it is accurate to sort of paint the situation too far in one direction or the other. There are kids who clearly aren't ready to make a move away while others are mature enough to handle it. <br><br>2. If the NTDP's purpose was to improve our international play as well as make USA hockey on the whole better, I feel they have failed. I don't see USA hockey having become vastly better in the years that the NTDP has been around. If they want to improve USA hockey, they'd be better off using all that money on a wider scope of players. Most of the players that go to the NTDP would go on to higher levels of hockey even without that program. Use the money on a greater number of players... a number of whom would benefit more from better instruction and more opportunities to play than a handful of elite players will.<br><br>3. I think the NTDP will become an obsolete program in due time with the USHL getting younger via Tier 1. If I were a parent whose kid looked ready to move past HS hockey, I'd rather have him play in the USHL anyway. <br><br> <p></p><i></i>

hubbaa
Posts: 354
Joined: Thu Jul 25, 2002 8:52 am

ann arbor

Post by hubbaa » Thu May 29, 2003 12:53 pm

joe,<br><br>if someone can offer a justification for how expensive hockey is at the high school level on down, i would like to hear it. the game is waaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyy to expensive almost at every level, not just the bs usa hockey level. money is destroying this sport and will ultimately make it an elitist sport if something isn't done very, very soon. <p></p><i></i>

joe lulic
Posts: 284
Joined: Mon Jul 29, 2002 1:30 pm

Re: ann arbor

Post by joe lulic » Thu May 29, 2003 2:00 pm

hubba, <br>You are right of course but the budget for a program with 400 kids is around $250,000 reduced by fundraising. Thats a far cry from 2 bleeping millon dollars for 40 kids. Hockey is too expensive and a lot programs are taking a second look at the amount of money they spend and are stepping up fundraising. But the cost of this NTDP is obscene.<br><br>Although I agree with you that hockey is too expensive, I also think that a well run community based MN Hockey program is a bargain and worth every nickle. For $650( typical Peewee cost) or so the kids get an awful lot of instruction and fun over a 5-6 month period. <br> <p></p><i></i>

Rinkydink2003
Posts: 5
Joined: Thu May 29, 2003 4:43 pm

ann arbor

Post by Rinkydink2003 » Thu May 29, 2003 4:43 pm

Cliff,or Whom ever you are why did you change their winning percentage 20% to 30%. And did you know that they fly to 90% of their games. I do agree with you that they spend way to much money, although thats where it ends<!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :evil --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... /devil.gif ALT=":evil"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :evil --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... /devil.gif ALT=":evil"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :evil --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... /devil.gif ALT=":evil"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :evil --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... /devil.gif ALT=":evil"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> I feel that there are many other qualities that can be gained by a parent sending their boy to NTDP. They gain a lot more responsibility when they don't have Mommy and Daddy there to clean up their messes. Also, the discipline after a tough day of FUN hockey, and a work out to put their nose to the grindstone and get their homework done, it's amazing when you are putting everything into you're goals and are getting out whatever you put in. With the right determination anything can happen.<!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :hat --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... s/pimp.gif ALT=":hat"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :hat --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... s/pimp.gif ALT=":hat"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :hat --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... s/pimp.gif ALT=":hat"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :hat --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... s/pimp.gif ALT=":hat"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <br>P.S HAve you ever visited Ann Arbor, because I know almost everyone in this board hasn't. and Isn't you son number 4 and don't you have a daughter in hockey to.?????????????<!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :rollin --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... s/roll.gif ALT=":rollin"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :rollin --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... s/roll.gif ALT=":rollin"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :rollin --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... s/roll.gif ALT=":rollin"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :rollin --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... s/roll.gif ALT=":rollin"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :rollin --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... s/roll.gif ALT=":rollin"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :rollin --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... s/roll.gif ALT=":rollin"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :rollin --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... s/roll.gif ALT=":rollin"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :rollin --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... s/roll.gif ALT=":rollin"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :rollin --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... s/roll.gif ALT=":rollin"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <p></p><i></i>

petey1321
Posts: 139
Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2002 2:10 am

What's the difference?

Post by petey1321 » Thu May 29, 2003 6:13 pm

What's the difference what his kid's number is? Or if he has a daughter in hockey? I don't have any particular feeling one way or another about the NTDP, though I do have my doubts, but bringing entirely irrelevant things like this into an argument isn't going to help your cause (nor is doing your best to make as many typos as possible). If you're going to argue with a guy, try arguing his points. Don't ask if he's ever been to Ann Arbor or if his kid is number 4, because neither of those could be less relevant.<br><br>I think the key point that has been brought up in this thread is that a lot of the NTDP kids end up going to juniors for a year anyway, so why not just stay where you are, or, if you have the option, go to Juniors early? (And yes, you're more likely to get noticed by junior teams at the NTDP, but if you're good enough to be there, you're good enough to be noticed regardless of where you are.) Until somebody addresses that point, I really don't see why USA hockey needs to throw that much money at a program like this. <p></p><i></i>

goldy313
Posts: 3274
Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2002 11:56 am

usdt

Post by goldy313 » Thu May 29, 2003 9:15 pm

Every kid who plays hockey sends 40$ ( I think that is the the fee) to this program, it's in the USA hockey fee every kid has to pay. A big waste of money, in many places this is 25% or more of the fee to play hockey.<br><br>A couple of years ago, when the Under 18 team was winning, it also was bringing their own refs to the games, these refs rode on the bus with the team, were paid by the team, stayed with the team. Anyone who saw any of these games knows what I'm talking about. Remember Kelly O'Brien? For pete's sake she couldn't keep up, let alone call a penalty on the US team. It wasn't that they were good, it was they had the advantage in every game of not having to be short handed ever. The teams objected to this, quit using the USA development refs and look what happend? They get drubbed. <br><br>While I'm no fan of the USHL, this program was far lees than any of the teams in the USHL could and do develop. <p></p><i></i>

centerman
Posts: 156
Joined: Wed Jul 24, 2002 6:55 am

Ann Arbor??

Post by centerman » Fri May 30, 2003 4:55 am

This program like many others has it's good and bad points.<br><br>The big problem with hockey today is that we focus on a small number of players. Development should be broad. In my mind we have way too many so called elite teams at all levels. My goodness by the time a kid reaches 7th or 8th grade most of them have been told they are "All World!"<br><br>The more players we can develop the better. Yes, we need to focus on some of the better players as they get older but this should not be at the expense of the game or the rest of the players.<br><br>A comment was made earlier that most high school programs are a joke. That statement couldn't be further from the truth. I believe a player can develop in almost any program with inner drive. Coaching helps but it still comes down to each individual. We could list kids all day that played in so called poor programs that developed into outstanding players.<br><br>The bottom line is that hockey will be better off if it tries to deveop as many kids as possible. I also believe that most elite teams at young ages do more harm than good in many respects (they give many kids a false sense of hope).<!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :D --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... /happy.gif ALT=":D"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <p></p><i></i>

bdabbt75
Posts: 78
Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2002 12:04 pm

Re: Ann Arbor??

Post by bdabbt75 » Fri May 30, 2003 7:18 am

I agree that most elite teams are a just profit making venture for the coach organizer or a way for some father to get players to complete a team around his son/daughter. Some however, are good. Some are focused on trully bringing the best of the best together. I know of teams who get 4 scouting reports from opposing coaches before even contacting _squirt_ players for trying out for their team. They're not filling a roster slot with a $5K check so their own so-so son can fly to Edmonton to show their skills, at the expense of others... these teams want to be the best.<br><br>NTDP is to develop a core of players for international play. It's at best and it's worst, the same model as the Red Army, except in a free enterprise system. With Tier 1 Junior As, open enrollment, and other methods of players 'migrating' to better teams (breck), the NTDP is an anachronism. It would be better to just strike a deal after summer tryouts that the kids if he makes it plays for 2 months (November-December) with the national team, for 3/4 days a week (flying them whereever...they fly them anyway), then be back in time for the end of the HS season. During the summer the team has August for a month of intense drills and they play weekends together in the fall. My guess the cost will be about even, and they would still be in their home environment (no matter what one says, a 16yo living away from their parents is not a good thing for most kids... best for them to not be a prima donna at least 1/2 the week), and we still build that nucleus.<br><br>however there are other teams that do nearly as much with a lot less. I heard that Noterman's team SE minn basically takes the 'best of the rest' after the elite teams take their cut, they pay basically as they go (if you don't play in a game you get your share of the money back), and they have quite a few well developed players. If USA Hockey seeded them with a couple thousand (note that would be 1/1000th of the NTDP cost) that could be 10 more games of ice time, or a day with a power skating coach, or coach development, or whatever. Have your HS elite teams, but develop next years elite by seeding money into this (like the old days... where you 'satellited' your development... there should be a team in each section playing the adjacent sections or travelling once a month for a 4 game weekend series.) elite hockey is not for development (read the brochure) it's for exposure. we need development. Make the average player a good player, then the great players have some decent competition. The great players can stay home, and the elite... well there is juniors (or Breck;-).<br><br>By the way, in typical rinkrat fashion noterman basically gets all the cheap ice time he can during the summer and advertises for the local Junior A, D1/D3 college and elite players to play pickup games... That must be some serious pond hockey on saturday mornings;-). Take your best HS elite player and put him on the ice with college players and let's see if he can deke his way around some all WCHA defenseman...;-) Can't USA Hockey help with that?<br><br><br>-bud<br> <p></p><i></i>

cliff77
Posts: 43
Joined: Wed May 28, 2003 3:23 pm

Ann Arbor

Post by cliff77 » Fri May 30, 2003 8:10 am

<br>Let me state for the record, that I think certain kids can thrive at the NDTP. There are numerous examples of this. <br><br>But, it has to be the right kind of kid, and parents need to really think about what they are committing their kids to before they send them there. And I firmly believe a 16 or 17 year old kid is not capable of making this decision. This is the parents' decision to make and ultimately live with.<br><br>The point in starting this thread is to scrutinize a program that spends $2,000,000 of our dollars (dollars from all of our USA Hockey Registration dues) on 50 or so kids.<br><br>Any time a group is marked as "elite", as these boys are, that group and its administration will be subject to scrutiny and critical review. It comes with the territory.<br><br>This forum is here for that debate. I don't think anyone is here to indict an individual or family for choosing to send their kid to Ann Arbor. <p></p><i></i>

joe lulic
Posts: 284
Joined: Mon Jul 29, 2002 1:30 pm

Re: Ann Arbor

Post by joe lulic » Fri May 30, 2003 11:10 am

I think that there have been a lot of good points made but the key thing for me is what good does this do when you have 16 year old kids involved? Someone made a comparison to the Red Army team. If that is what it is, I could give it a chance. But I hear about kids going for one or two years and then going to college or juniors. That just doesnt make any sense to me. They play 64 games and then go to college and play 35 games for 3 years. What is the point? <br> <p></p><i></i>

hubbaa
Posts: 354
Joined: Thu Jul 25, 2002 8:52 am

ann arbor...

Post by hubbaa » Fri May 30, 2003 12:17 pm

joe,<br><br>i agree ntdp is obscene, but my point being we have to first clean our own house before trying to clean another's. let's worry about reducing costs here in mn and providing everyone with an opportunity to play hockey that wants to. once this is accomplished we will be the model for the rest of the states to emulate and in time naturally ntdp will have to follow suit is some way, shape or form. they will be forced to adapt to us, not us to them... <p></p><i></i>

puck88
Posts: 15
Joined: Fri May 30, 2003 10:44 pm

mn 88s

Post by puck88 » Fri May 30, 2003 10:44 pm

if u wanna see a team that produces great players but is coached exactly like the Red Army Team watch the MN 88's. its ridiculous what those kids are doing (this is the AAA team Mueller is from). You can hear their coach yelling at them through the whole rink after they win 7-0 against a team a year older than them. Although this is a harsh way of coaching, the skill development enforced by McBain(their coach) is what every HS in our state needs. I've never been to Ann Arbor, but I doubt their coaches are as tough as McBain.<br><br>PS the only player from their team going to Ann Arbor for sure is Mueller, they have about 5 or 6 at Shattuck, 3 at AHA, and the others are spread throughout MN. <p></p><i></i>

Rinkydink2003
Posts: 5
Joined: Thu May 29, 2003 4:43 pm

Ann arbor

Post by Rinkydink2003 » Sat May 31, 2003 7:51 pm

Compared to the rest of the country Minnesota hockey is a joke. If you look Minnesota hasn't won any kind of National Championship level at any age group in the past 30 years excluding Shattuck who is not recognized by MAHA.So where do look to find any level worth playing at for an elite player, some where else that would be my guess so when a kid gets the chance to go some place better he will take it. For them its about getting ahead in hockey and his parents responsibiliy to make sure he is being academically challenged and has food and a roof over hi head. They have 46 kids there and 2 million is spent on just them now to a parent what would you choose Minnesota hockey that is going down the tubes because we refuse to play Tier 1 hockey like every other state. Or having 2 mil spent on him, having your son learn many more life long skills, and being able to see him whenever you want. I don't know, but if my kod were offered that He'd be gone with a kiss from his Mom. <br><br>Minnesota hockey has its head buried in sand because they haven't won a Nat'l championship in years, and we haven't had any True Minnesotans that haven't gone to ann arbor in forever <p></p><i></i>

bdabbt75
Posts: 78
Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2002 12:04 pm

? school's out for summer?

Post by bdabbt75 » Sat May 31, 2003 8:12 pm

explain this statement... I'm sorry, I flat out can't understand what you're trying to say.<br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>[....] and we haven't had any True Minnesotans that haven't gone to ann arbor in forever <hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>what is a true minnesotan? and are you trying to say they are or are not going to AA? <p></p><i></i>

Rinkydink2003
Posts: 5
Joined: Thu May 29, 2003 4:43 pm

statement

Post by Rinkydink2003 » Sat May 31, 2003 8:35 pm

Sorry I forgot to finish. Minnesota hasn't sent any Minnesotans to the NHL that haven't gone to NTDP in a long time and the last few goalies for Minnesota gophers guess where they came from? Look at all the gophers that went to ann arbor How bad has minnesota hockey really gotten?<!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :rolleyes --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... s/eyes.gif ALT=":rolleyes"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :rolleyes --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... s/eyes.gif ALT=":rolleyes"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :rolleyes --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... s/eyes.gif ALT=":rolleyes"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :rolleyes --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... s/eyes.gif ALT=":rolleyes"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :rolleyes --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... s/eyes.gif ALT=":rolleyes"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <p></p><i></i>

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