Fairbanks tryout camp

smittystavern
Posts: 2
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2003 12:16 pm

Fairbanks tryout camp

Post by smittystavern » Fri Aug 22, 2003 12:16 pm

3 players for So Mn were trying out for Faribanks- <br>Weichman, Hansen and Skinner. Anyone know how <br>they did, did any make the team?<br> <p></p><i></i>

sjubum
Posts: 48
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2003 2:55 pm

Re: Fairbanks tryout camp

Post by sjubum » Fri Aug 22, 2003 2:55 pm

<!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.uafhockey.com/0304/roster.ht ... <!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--> <p></p><i></i>

Sioux Fan
Posts: 552
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2003 2:56 pm
Location: Rochester, MN

Re: Fairbanks tryout camp

Post by Sioux Fan » Fri Aug 22, 2003 2:56 pm

<!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :eek --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... ns/eek.gif ALT=":eek"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> ,<br><br><br>Brad Wiechmann, Eric Hansen, Cole Hughes all from Austin are up in Fairbanks<br><br>Along with Adam Hendel and Jake Bluhm from Red Wing<br><br>and Adam Gill from Rochester Lourdes.<br><br>All but Adam played on the Team South Group for me. This is one of my frustrations with this Elite Program. Only 2 or 3 So MN guys are on the Elite teams.<br><br>I have always had 10 to 12 players who were good Jr. A and College players.<br><br>Why have we lost this avenue to get my So MN area kids noticed? <p>Hockey Nut in So. MN</p><i></i>

smittystavern
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Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2003 12:16 pm

re: fairbanks

Post by smittystavern » Fri Aug 22, 2003 6:04 pm

That's great news to hear the players from So Mn are<br>getting this opportunity. There are good players here. <br>Just that the HS team aren't that strong, so the exposure isn't there for them. Maybe that makes them try a little harder. <br><br>smitty<br> <p></p><i></i>

JLS 81
Posts: 386
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 3:08 pm

Great Point from Southern Minnesota!

Post by JLS 81 » Fri Aug 22, 2003 7:52 pm

Sioux Fan,<br>The High School "Elite" program should represent each region of the state. However that will not happen as the metro is where all the great players come from and the metro needs to have all their fantastic hockey players on the ice representing all points on the proverbial compass. Metro this, metro that, we need all the teams from the metro representing "Elite" hockey. If you frequent this board enough you will find a few comments regarding that sentiment.<br>After all they are the "stuff" when it comes to puck prowess the rest of us rubes just need to get over it. Of course the above is all "tongue and cheek" as many on this board are very level headed and have a healthy respect for hockey in all of Minnesota. However the air of self importance is expresed by a few. My vote is for one or two more Minnesota teams in the elite league. If the numbers are there why not a true southern team, one or two northern teams 4 or 5 metro teams.<br>Why not scrap a Shattuck or another team and allow a true southern Minnestoa team. I would agree with that totally as should every red blooded Minnesotan, metro included.<br> <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub33.ezboard.com/bmnhs.showUser ... =jls81>JLS 81</A> at: 8/22/03 9:48 pm<br></i>

NUEagles
Posts: 20
Joined: Sun Mar 10, 2002 7:33 pm

if...

Post by NUEagles » Fri Aug 22, 2003 11:16 pm

If it were true "elite" hockey then it shouldnt matter where a player is from. If he's from the metro area and better than an eveleth kid then he should be on over the eveleth kid. If a Mankato player is better than SSP player then the Mankato player should make it. The whole "Southern elite" ect. is just a bunch of crap because its supposed to be for the top like... 118 kids in the state. If your cutting kids from the metro who could make star on the southern team then what the bloody hell is the point of calling it "elite"?? <p></p><i></i>

Sioux Fan
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Location: Rochester, MN

Elite Program Do they evaluate, offer guidance, develop?

Post by Sioux Fan » Sun Aug 24, 2003 10:13 am

My point is that these young men may be good prospects but the term of Elite could be very misleading. The game of hockey is a sport played all over the US, Canada, Sweden, Finland, Russia, Slovakia, Germany, Italy, Czechloslovakia. Lot's of players. Now let's look at who is developing their talent and how they do it. Let's pick off the best of the best and use it for our kids. We have better facilities, good coaches and strong young men. If we really work on player development we can be the best. If we just embellish our best players and don't work on their weaknesses than they will not compete with the other players in the world and even in the US that are doing more regarding evaluation and skill development. I wonder what these elite guys do in the weight room? I wonder how these "Elite" guys do on the treadmill. I wonder how hard they shoot the puck?<br><br>I wonder how well they are able to protect the puck and work within a teams systems defensively and offensively. <br><br>I can't find these things out in games. I can't find these things out by writing letters. I think the lack of tryouts and a way of measuring upside potential. Just because a player may be a little better at 16 or 17 doesn't mean he will be the best at 21.. Lot's of chances for kids to work on their game and get better. My fear is that kids that could make the decision to do the work and train and develop may be discouraged because they are informed thru some bureaucratic process that they are not elite. This may cause some young players to drop their focus. Sometimes kids believe what the supposed experts tell them. This is the danger. If one kid that could and might get after it and do the training and skill development gets discouraged because they are not in the limelight highly scouted program and they go a different direction. I am a firm believer in setting standards and guidelines for who can be in the "Elite Program" It should be based on testing and evaluation not arbitrary letter writers. Can someone explain in detail the process to select the "chosen few" Elite. I usually had a jamboree with 80 + players and then two weekends of tryouts and things were never completely correct regarding the players that got in vs the players who didn't get in. I just want to make sure that the players who are not selected know that they can still decide to get after it and train and actually may be able to go past the "Elite Players". If the elite program does not evaluate and make recommendations for the players regarding things each and every player needs to improve on. These young players are not being served as they need to know what they need to work on and how to work on it.<br><br> <p>Hockey Nut in So. MN</p><i></i>

Finn70
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Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2003 12:50 pm

Re: Fairbanks tryout camp

Post by Finn70 » Sun Aug 24, 2003 12:50 pm

Sioux Fan may have good intentions but I think the problem is that you can't coddle kids forever. If a kid becomes discouraged because he isn't classified as "elite" by somebody and then subsequently decides not to work hard to overcome such a label, that is his own fault. We all have faced discouraging situations in life but they key is to persevere and work hard to overcome it. An older teenage kid needs to learn this somewhere along the line. <br><br>I don't doubt that the selection process could use some tweaking but usually it is relatively apparent by watching these guys skate throughout the year who is deserving of being involved. <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub33.ezboard.com/bmnhs.showUser ... >Finn70</A> at: 8/24/03 12:52 pm<br></i>

suomi27
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Joined: Sat Dec 07, 2002 12:55 pm

Re: Fairbanks tryout camp

Post by suomi27 » Sun Aug 24, 2003 4:27 pm

Althought we have deviated from the topic at hand I think the discussion is valid. <br>Sioux Fan has nailed it perfectly and receives a 9.9 from the Finnish judge. In as much as I would like to agree with what I assume is a fellow countryman "Finn70" I cannot. Sioux Fan or Jon whichever you prefer, I firmly agree with your sentiment. Jon you did all of southern Minnesota a service by providing an alternative to the elite league. <br>The great travesty is that option no longer exists. <br>As for the elite league it does have some of the best players in the state no doubt, but it is also missing some of the best. And I am sure everyone can think of players that are missing, but we won't go there.<br>Sioux Fans argument is that the league isn't developing anything it is merely showcasing what already exists. <br>So the bottom line is, is the elite league contributing anything or is it merely taking advantage of what already exists. Compared to what Westrum and Noterman and the Duluth coach did with the players they had I would say the independents were the real development guys. "Elite" in there ideas and dedication to the betterment of high school hockey as a whole. The system is not perfect, that is a given, but I have to agree with Sioux Fan, we need a system that develops those who are willing to put forth the effort not just who has emerged by the age of 15. <p></p><i></i>

hocke101
Posts: 30
Joined: Mon Aug 11, 2003 4:32 pm

Elite League

Post by hocke101 » Sun Aug 24, 2003 7:20 pm

I played in the Elite league and grew as a player more than I ever thought possible. I had the best coaching I had ever experienced and was able to grow as a player with every practice. I think it is an excellent program that will change over time and continue to improve itself. No matter what level or league you are looking at there will always be kids who we think could play at that level but are not there. Look at all the high draft picks or college stars that are lost on there way to the nhl for whatever reason. More teams would be nice but it could also water down the talent pool. I think this is the reason that the USHL wont expand. The harder it is to be a part of a league the more credibility the players in it get. I also agree that those who are left out have the perfect motivation to prove people wrong. Every time something doesnt work out for me it pushes me that much harder to change whatever I could to make it. I think that the right attitude towards that makes the truly Elite Players in the end after it is all said and done. <p></p><i></i>

blackeye
Posts: 85
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Where's the elite mouthpiece??

Post by blackeye » Mon Aug 25, 2003 12:00 pm

Great discussion guys.<br><br>The coach of the Duluth AAA team last year was Mark Workman. Former St. Scholastica coach.<br><br>I find it interesting that the mouthpiece for the Elite league has nothing to add to this discussion. He sure was quick to try and grab some credit for how good Hillen and Taylor were on the US team.<br><br>As for the selection process you can see it at aldrich or at any select festival. Just look for the guy with the glasses and the 5lb sack of popcorn. Not taking alot of notes, but "knows" who is the best.<br><br>P.S. That part on the Elite website about HS coaches nominating your players. Disregard it if you aren't from the "right" program. Heard more stories this summer from coaches that can't even get their calls returned.<br> <br>People can handle the fact that they aren't chosen, it's when you ignore people that they feel excluded. <p></p><i></i>

petey1321
Posts: 139
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Elite League

Post by petey1321 » Mon Aug 25, 2003 4:08 pm

The Elite League has its problems. One of the most obvious that I recall from last year was the 4 line system where kids who are all used to seeing the ice for half a game barely see the ice at all. It makes it tough to get into a rhythm, and I think the league would benefit from making a couple more teams so that each team only has 3 lines of forwards. <br><br>One thing that the Elite League clearly did correctly was separate the true best 30-40 players from the rest of them that were playing in the league by making the top kids play against other top kids. (Yes, we all know kids who were better than some kids in the league, but by and large, nobody was in the league that was anything less than a solid player, so save that argument for a different topic.) You're constantly hearing about guys getting anywhere between 40-60 who "deserve more respect and all that". But, when put against other kids of the top caliber, it was a different story for a lot of guys, and I don't have to name names. All you have to do is look at the Elite League scoring leaders and you'll see an indication of how these guys do when they're not playing against (insert bad team name here) all the time, and much of that scoreboard is reflected in how highly these guys were then sought by the USHL for this upcoming season.<br><br>As for blackeye's concerns:<br><br>-The mouthpiece for the Elite League is probably busy working on, gasp, the Elite League. This is not a forum related in any way to the league, and there aren't many people on here who check here daily and read through all the posts. Even I don't, and look at my post numbers. Besides, he's already addressed these concerns ad nauseum, and no amount of him saying "we do a pretty good job" is going to satisfy some guy who didn't make the team.<br><br>-First off, I don't go to many select tryouts or anything, but at any tryout I've seen, I've seen a dozen guys there with clipboards taking notes. Secondly, we've all heard of a kid being sick or injured or simply having a bad tryout who got left off a team. We put way too much emphasis on one or a couple days of tryouts and not nearly enough on consistent performance. By taking into account the kids making these all-state teams and other various high school season acheivements, the Elite League has made sure that guys can't just blow their chance with a bad tryout even if they clearly belong while still allowing other kids to show up and "wow" them.<br><br>-I dare say that the opinion of a Trebil or a Saterdalen or a Guyer should be worth a bit more weight than some unknown coach who thinks his best players are the best players in the state. The coaches of the top programs have seen talent come and go, and their opinion should naturally be considered more heavily than some others'. As for phone calls not getting returned, I can't answer you unless you're going to give specific examples.<br><br>In summary, I'd say (strictly anecdotally) that the vast majority of the "elite" players in the state are at least getting a chance to show their stuff at these tryouts. With some 110 kids in the league, you're going to have some kids who aren't at the top level, but you're going to have a LOT of kids who are. It might not be a perfect system, but it's a pretty good one. There's already been a handful of kids from the league getting college commitments, and after this year, that number is sure to jump exponentially with all of the "alumni" that the league helped catapult into the USHL and NAHL/AWHL. The Elite League was meant to give the top high school kids a place to play in the fall without going to juniors, and it's doing a great job of getting a lot of those kids who COULD go into juniors to stay home, and for that, we should be grateful. <p></p><i></i>

blackeye
Posts: 85
Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2002 3:59 pm

See Ya

Post by blackeye » Mon Aug 25, 2003 6:08 pm

Petey, <br><br>As always, its hard to argue with what you have put forth. You are lucky to have come through one of the right programs. <br><br>Maybe I will see you at a Gamblers game sometime and we can talk about it.<br><br>I wholeheartedly believe that 10 years from now the discussion will completely center on how good the AAA Midget teams from MN are. Its kind of funny that the plan to save HS hockey involves creating a fall AAA Midget league. <br><br>See Ya <p></p><i></i>

hocke101
Posts: 30
Joined: Mon Aug 11, 2003 4:32 pm

high schools

Post by hocke101 » Tue Aug 26, 2003 7:58 pm

I disagree with that last comment because of the fan support at the games. The loyalty to the teams and the building up of all the games is what will keep high school hockey the main topic. I think these other teams will be talked about more but it will be used mainly as a reference tool for high school players during the year. You will hear a lot of " We are playing that team with so and so from the elite league." I hope high school hockey holds strong because that is where my heart will always be. <p></p><i></i>

Mitch Hawker
Site Admin
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Elite Schedule

Post by Mitch Hawker » Fri Sep 05, 2003 11:03 am

My biggest beef with the Elite League is that they won't even play Notermann's or Westrum's teams.<br><br>I guarantee you that those two teams were better than Team Wisconsin, Team North Dakota, Thunder Bay Kings, Capital Centre Pride, Pittsburgh Hornets, and Ice Dogs, all of whom the Elite League played last year.<br><br>Why not invite these two teams to fill some of those guest spots, they would be better competition and are also made up of Minnesota high school players? <br><br>Seems like playing these teams would be a win/win situation but from what I have heard the Elite League will not consider it. <br><br>My only guess is that someone in the Elite League hierarchy thinks it would look bad for any of their teams to lose to these Minnesota teams.<br><br>Don't get me wrong ... I like the idea of the Elite League challenging the better players to keep them with their high school teams, I just think that this particular League "policy" stinks. <br> <p></p><i></i>

petey1321
Posts: 139
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Can't do it

Post by petey1321 » Fri Sep 05, 2003 11:11 am

If the elite league teams were to play against those other two teams, then why wouldn't kids have an incentive to make a "super-elite" all-star team from those groups, or just make a 3rd fall team of their own choosing? A coach could just call the top 30 returning metro scorers and tell them that they'll still be able to play in the Elite League, they just don't actually have to be in the Elite League, and he'd be able to make a team right there. It's not feasible to expect a league to go to teams that are purposely outside of the league structure and then ask them to join.<br><br>Besides, I think it was fun to show the returning national champs that a mishmash of kids from a quarter of the metro area could take them down, even if they weren't nearly what they were the year before. <p></p><i></i>

bdabbt75
Posts: 78
Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2002 12:04 pm

...can't ... resist... attacking... elite... hockey...

Post by bdabbt75 » Fri Sep 05, 2003 4:09 pm

petey, you're use of 'wouldn't' confuses me.<br><br>I think what we [those that feel the elite program is too elite] all asked for was, that let the elite league play in their league, have the tryouts, claim they are the best of the best, but:<br><br>1) allow an elite team to schedule scrimmages or 'non-conference' games with non-elite teams<br>2) invite other MN AAA fall teams into the 'championship tournament'<br><br>your example of the top 30 returning scorers... <br>a) they'd get to play 2 or 3 games against pretty good competition, <br>b) may suck defensively and <br>c) and would they learn anything otherwise? <br><br>offering 30 players a chance to win, when in fact the 'goal' of this endeavor is to become better before the HS season starts... well if any of the 30 accept on the premise that winning is the only reason to join, they didn't really understand the concept of self-improvement anyway.<br><br>(and aren't you describing the blades?;-)<br><br>I'm just tired of the underhanded collusion between MNHockey and MNHSelite hockey. I'd rather them prove they are good, than them legislate other teams out of the competition and then proclaim 'we have no competition, therefore our model is good'.<br><br>My general opinion is that choice is good. In principal I also agree that the elite hockey program is good. I just want both of these to coexist. Why can't someone who want's to practice 2 nights a week and play 2 weekend games and NOT travel to the Twin Cities every weekend find a team that allows this? and wouldn't it be better if that team, if it is proven that the kids are skating really well, get a chance to play with the 'elites'?<br><br>I think we can improve the system... one option mentioned is to 2 tier this. Why not try an 'elite league' of only returning seniors (the preseason great '5'), and a development league of everyone else, have the elite league do their little ditty, but acknowledge the latter and let some interleague play occur, and then allow the lower division 'winners' (1,2, or 3) play in a season ending tournament of up to 16 teams (invite 8 others, the shattucks, Team WI, Team Nodak, Team Iowa[HA-Ha!], Illinois, and 2-3 wildcards) and have your tournament (4 pools, 1 game friday, 2 saturday, championship 2 game sunday). works for me.<br><br>ice time, instruction, intense competition. that's what everyone wants. more teams means more opportunity.<br>-bud <p></p><i></i>

Brett11
Posts: 43
Joined: Mon Jun 02, 2003 8:01 am

Re: Can't do it

Post by Brett11 » Fri Sep 05, 2003 4:15 pm

Petey,<br><br>I agree with your comments about requiring the Elite League to be exclusive for those who have tried out for the Elite League. Another MN team should not be allowed to play in the league as it would not only encourage these super elite teams and it would dilute the Elite League's status.<br><br>And Mitch, <br><br>I have to disagree with you about Westrum's team being better than Team Wisconsin or even North Dakota. About half of his team wouldn't have made any of the Elite Teams' rosters. Noterman's team on the other hand would have competed nicely against those two, but not against any of the metro teams. <br><br>However, it sure would have been nice to see them add more teams. I can't tell you how many times I heard the refrain, "Why are we traveling to Grand Rapids (or Wausau, or Duluth) to play the same three teams we played last weekend here in the cities". <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub33.ezboard.com/bmnhs.showUser ... Brett11</A> at: 9/5/03 4:21 pm<br></i>

Sioux Fan
Posts: 552
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2003 2:56 pm
Location: Rochester, MN

Re: Can't do it

Post by Sioux Fan » Fri Sep 05, 2003 6:40 pm

My team and Pat's team would have done fine vs the elite teams. Heck we never finished lower than 3rd in the Proj Prep League and were always told we were inferior. I believe we have many of our former players in D-1 and this year only 2 players were taken from our whole area. That is a joke. Metro area is not the only area that develops hockey players. By the way those two Lundin boys, the boys from St. Louis Park, Martinson Bayers and the Ryan boy from Eagan and Jake Obermeyer are all excellent players.<br><br>Who are you to say that they are not? My team learns to work hard and that they are only getting started on a long hard journey. Do you get it? <p>Hockey Nut in So. MN</p><i></i>

Mitch Hawker
Site Admin
Posts: 370
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petey, you missed my point

Post by Mitch Hawker » Sun Sep 07, 2003 9:20 am

<br> I was not saying that the Elite League should admit these teams as members to play them each weekend. <br><br> I was meaning that they should each be invited to at least one weekend of games like some of the weaker out of state teams were (e.g. Thunder Bay Kings, (Lansing) Capital Centre Pride, (Detroit) Ice Dogs ...<br><br> I think Notermann's team would have beaten all Elite teams with the exception of Northeast, Southwest, and part timer Shattuck last year. We'll never know but the real point is that these better teams exist in our state, made up of MSHSL players, why choose not to play against them at all.<br><br> As far as the strength of Westrum's team, I think the strength of the Twin Cities team's goaltending gave Notermann's team fits last year and the two teams pretty evenly split their games. <p></p><i></i>

onedogtoomany
Posts: 35
Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2003 1:44 pm

Elite League

Post by onedogtoomany » Sun Sep 07, 2003 11:30 pm

What I find amusing is that the Elite League takes credit for everything that one of "their players" does. I do like seeing Minnesota kids getting D1 offers but the fact is that there are kids that could not get into the Elite League last year that are earning a DI rides on their own.<br><br>By the way, two of Pat Westrums players from last year have already received D1 offers: <br><br><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>Chaska's Jake Obermeyer</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END-->, who could never get into Model Camp, Selects or the Elite League, has been offered a full ride to Michigan Tech. He did it on his own with an awesome showing at the Great Eight and Chicago Showcase. He'll play a year or two at Tri-Cities in the USHL first but, Michigan Tech came after him hard! Funny that the "hockey experts" all around Minnesota never gave old Jake a chance.<br><br><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>Apple Valley's Matt Lundin</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END-->, who also played for Pat's Metro team last year, just got his D1 ticket punched at Maine. He's already enrolled there and will skate for the Black Bears this season. They unexpectedly lost one of their returning defensemen to the pros and had Matt convinced to come to Maine in five days. He had never heard from them up untill then.<br><br><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>SLP's David Martinson</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--> could not even get an Elite tryout last summer. All he ended up doing was the leading all 11th graders in scoring in the state last year.<br><br>Pat's Metro Team's goalies, Brigl and Lundin, were probably the two best goalies at Wausau this weekend in the opening weekend of this year's Elite League. They combined for a shutout of Team Wisconsin in the weekend's final game. Team Wisconsin had beat Team SouthWest 6-5 the day before.<br><br>I agree that those "other teams" should have been allowed to play or at least scrimmage some of the Elite Teams last fall. It would have been very good hockey. I also feel that adding two of three more Minnesota teams to the Elite league would be good. Having 20 kids on a team is insane. They never get into the flow of the game when they get a shift every 5-6 minutes. There are plenty of good players in our state to make up 7-8 "Elite" teams of 15 players each.<br><br>(By the way Hockey Nut John N., Hovick from Roch JM, looked very good this weekend in Wausau and should be a top forward on Team SouthEast this fall. He's a nice player.) <p></p><i></i>

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