Last Year High School Kids in the USHL

Sioux Fan
Posts: 552
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2003 2:56 pm
Location: Rochester, MN

Re: elitism

Post by Sioux Fan » Fri Nov 07, 2003 12:32 pm

High School hockey is free???? I don't think so.. I believe we could take the resources and do a better job than sending our kids away to Fairbanks and Texas etc. I am talking about an additional season in the fall and the spring to help our players prepare for the juniors and college hockey that they want to play. I don't want to kill HS hockey.<br><br>I am looking for a way to have our kids get more information and preparation as it is obvioux to me that the kids are not as ready as kids from other programs.<br><br>Please don't look at this as an attack of HS hockey it is an addition to it that may help some players reach their goals easier. I know that it is the players that ultimately determine how far they go.<br><br> <p>Hockey Nut in So. MN</p><i></i>

joe lulic
Posts: 284
Joined: Mon Jul 29, 2002 1:30 pm

Dont be a fool, stay in school

Post by joe lulic » Fri Nov 07, 2003 1:10 pm

I understand the reluctance to trash the high school system. We are very attached to it emotionally and otherwise. It bugs me though when I hear people say "don't ever take my high school hockey away" and then in the same breadth bitch about the MSHSL and all the restrictions that one would expect in a program run by a governing body whose prime directive is to educate. <br>Then they follow it up with what a great thing this new league is that has the title of "Elite" and how its is so necessary and effective to keep our kids here and to supplement high school hockey because it isn't good enough.... but don't take it away. <br><br>I guess we want high school hockey and to whine about its restrictions. We also want all the things necessary to supplement it and we don't care if kids leave to get that so long as some stay and play. <br><br>OK then.<br><br> <p></p><i></i>

every name i wanted was u
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2003 3:50 pm

Re: elitism

Post by every name i wanted was u » Fri Nov 07, 2003 3:50 pm

there is a hockey system already inplace which resembles what some of you are talking about. it is in canada where kids play aaa for chance to play junior hockey when they are 16-19 years old. it has certainly wokred for them but i still would rather have it the way it is here in mn. <br>kids still get the chance to play other sports or participate in fall hockeys leagues and still end up being very good players. will this the case in five years i don't know. the share of mn players in the ushl is steadily dropping, while the number of players from down south continue to increase. not sure any system though would stop this trend. more kids are playing hockey outside of the northern states which means more kids from non northern states having spots in juniors and in college.<br><br>i believe northern kids will always have an advantage over a southern kid in much the same way southern kids have huge advantages in football and baseball. but the gap is narrowing.<br><br> <p></p><i></i>

hockeytape
Posts: 20
Joined: Thu Nov 06, 2003 2:06 pm

hockey system

Post by hockeytape » Fri Nov 07, 2003 4:35 pm

Shall we say the grass is always greener on someone's side of the fence and<br>if you build it someone will always go to it, at least for a while <p></p><i></i>

Dons
Posts: 101
Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2003 10:35 pm

Re: hockey system

Post by Dons » Fri Nov 07, 2003 6:39 pm

ya know ..everyone has actually great ideas on how to change it, and they would probably be effective. but lets take a step back and look at the tourney now. Can you think of a single bettter environment than the one created teh first weekend of march every year? the electricity in the air is undescribable, and the games are legendary. there are lots of things that could be changed,and i have argued for them in the past, but when i look at it, the tournament right now ..is PERFECT. <p></p><i></i>

Mitch Hawker
Site Admin
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remember what Minnesota already has

Post by Mitch Hawker » Sat Nov 08, 2003 4:50 pm

The most competitive high school hockey and best high school hockey tournament in the world.<br><br>The most players playing D1 hockey of any state.<br><br>Hockey in general is cheaper in Minnesota than elsewhere and Minnesota high school hockey is in general very inexpensive for the players families.<br><br>In Massachusetts, most top players leave their public high schools for Prep schools, Junior teams, or a few elite Catholic Schools.<br><br>In Michigan, nearly all top players play AAA or Junior.<br><br>In short, there are a lot of positives for the status quo in Minnesota.<br><br>I have been suggesting a before and after league eligible for USA Nationals since before Project Prep and maybe it will eventually happen. <br><br>There are pros (exposure, experience) and cons (cost, greater time commitment) to that, but to make that happen, the overagers would all need to be segregated onto one or two teams as Mass does and the others would battle it out (with each other and Shattuck) for a trip to Nationals.<br><br>The Elite League isn't perfect, but it is providing some high level game experience for those chosen to participate. As I stated in another thread, I think the NIT needs some tweaking.<br><br>All in all, I think things are slowly moving in the right direction.<br><br> <p></p><i></i>

Sioux Fan
Posts: 552
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Location: Rochester, MN

Re: remember what Minnesota already has

Post by Sioux Fan » Sat Nov 08, 2003 5:11 pm

Mitch,<br><br>The Elite program has effectively stripped the So MN Hockey player from the map..<br><br>This year only 3 players from our area in the Elite Program..<br><br>I have more boys on CC who played on my teams than got to participate this year.<br><br>The ability to get our top players in a format where they can show how well they can compete is lost to the Metro Area prejudice.<br><br>I am not happy and would like to find another way to get our kids back on track to get to good Juniors and college opportunities.<br><br>That is why I think for my area kids anything that keeps our area together and allows us to fight to get the good kids a fair chance to move on is important to me. <p>Hockey Nut in So. MN</p><i></i>

Mitch Hawker
Site Admin
Posts: 366
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2002 12:16 pm

Southern MN

Post by Mitch Hawker » Sat Nov 08, 2003 6:11 pm

John,<br><br>You have a great point. <br><br>Seems that if North Dakota, Wisconsin, and Michigan high school players can be included in the league schedule for development purposes (these were among the weaker teams) that there should be room for a Southern MN or even Southern MN/Iowa team.<br><br>Adding a couple of teams and inviting 3 guest teams each weekend would allow for three 4-team sites per weekend, maybe a little less travel on average, and fewer games against the same opponents. <br><br>Hopefully, even if "Team South" does not happen, you will not have resistance to having a team that can play some AAA competition in the fall. <p></p><i></i>

joe lulic
Posts: 284
Joined: Mon Jul 29, 2002 1:30 pm

Schoolboy hockey

Post by joe lulic » Mon Nov 10, 2003 9:18 am

We have the best high school hockey because we have the only high school hockey. Its cheaper because the schools(taxpayers) subsidize it.<br><br>I think Dons last post is the reason we hang on to it. Mitch's point is well taken in that we have been successful with developing players and providing them with post secondary oppurtunities so why trash the sysytem. <br><br>My biggest concern is that the current sysytem is going to be gone for all practical purposes any way because we will lose too mnay players. I would rather work toward change now and see if that cant be headed off. <p></p><i></i>

Dons
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Re: Schoolboy hockey

Post by Dons » Mon Nov 10, 2003 10:47 am

i think the elite league,all in all is actually a pretty good system. Talented kids get to play with other talented kids from around teh state. they get ice time all fall, and then later in the fall they re join their high school teams. politics aside from who gets on the teams, and who doesnt its a pretty good system. i draw the line when they skate all fall, and then leave for a junior team, sure it might be in the best interest of a kid lookin to play college, but lets not forget who forged you into the player you are---your high school program. <p></p><i></i>

hockeytape
Posts: 20
Joined: Thu Nov 06, 2003 2:06 pm

forging who you are

Post by hockeytape » Mon Nov 10, 2003 1:06 pm

<br>My experience is it is the youth coaches and<br>programs that have forged players into players.<br>There are a few HS coaches that add to that skill base<br>the majority of "talented players" are determined and classified prior to high schools. The lists are pretty consistent to early developers.<br><br>There are approximately 156 high school teams in<br>the state. That means roughly 5,400 skaters at the<br>varsity/jv level. I would estimate another 1500<br>Junior gold skaters.<br><br>Of the 5400 skaters i am guessing many more will <br>get academic scholarships than full ride hockey. There are many opportunities to pursue a hockey dream if <br>they are so inclined. It may be a rough road filled with broken promises. Let the buyer beware.<br><br> I would rather see extra resources put in place for the 5350 kids to make the world a better place.<br><br>If players feel they are not getting the complete MN nuturing they need to make it to the next level and decide for their personal reasons they must depart HS for juniors, wish them well. There are 20 kids in each community that are waiting for the opportunity to take<br>their spot. The game we watch will not be diminished if a junior or senior departs. <br><br>Our lives are shaped by the breadth of experience we have. I believe a complete HS school experience is very beneficial and maturing. <br><br>If someone is interested in putting together a post <br>HS season "junior type" program. Go for it. Showcase<br>Hockey was built on a year round vision and it has taken a number of years. Is it inexpensive. NO.<br>Any such league to be benefical will cost more money than expected with benefits to fewer than expected. Pretty soon their will be less down time for high school seniors than pros or colleges. <br><br>We can all identify the 30 or so kids that are likely to<br>get the college call. Their opportunities won't change.<br>Put the same resources in our children to become plumbers, doctors, coaches, mentors or fathers, we will have served them better!<br><br><br><br> <p></p><i></i>

joe lulic
Posts: 284
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Schooled em

Post by joe lulic » Mon Nov 10, 2003 4:02 pm

hockeytape,<br> Agreed ,especially with your last sentence. Why should our schools be so occupied and make such a financial commitment to hockey. Look at what happened up in Duluth. Is that how we should be spending thousands of dollars and hundreds of people hours, determining whether the bleepin hockey coach should be retained or not? Arent there any decisions that need to be made that are slightly more important regarding education? Some people think the latest election of the school board was a result of what happened with the hockey coach. <br>We ought to spend the education dollar on education and let the communities do hockey. <p></p><i></i>

Dons
Posts: 101
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Re: Schooled em

Post by Dons » Mon Nov 10, 2003 4:42 pm

ya know letting the communities do hockey is a great idea, except then we lose "student athelete" which stands for an athlete that can competently perform in school as well as the sports scene. just looking on this board makes ya realize there is an answer to just about every problem. but just like a teeter totter, as you satisfy one side, you must sacrifice another. Keep hockey in the schools system, but dont let it rule the School board meetings. <p></p><i></i>

hockeyfanormn
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Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2003 5:20 pm

repley to juniors

Post by hockeyfanormn » Mon Nov 10, 2003 5:20 pm

I agree with you the entire way on this one. There is just something about the heart of a true high school hockey player that makes me want to see them succeed. They are not playing for the money or because it is there job, but because hockey is neccesarly thier life, because without it they don't know what they would do. I know for me, if it weren't for high school hockey, and that dream to go to state, there is no way I would even be in college (classes) right now. Without that dream to make me do well in school so I could play, I wouldn't be here, I don't know where I would be. And I know that is what hockey is for many people, a game they love to play, and that is a dream they have. Someone said something about changing the state tournement, how could you change something so many people have dreamed about for so long. I have attended the tourney for the past three years and have no intention of stopping. I think that it is a great way to see great hockey, and remember my dreams of the past. I know people that will come back from California and other states (far away) just to remember that dream and what it did for them. I will come back every year, no matter how far away I may live, it is a dream that, even though I could never reach, I never want to forget. <p></p><i></i>

Dons
Posts: 101
Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2003 10:35 pm

Re: repley to juniors

Post by Dons » Mon Nov 10, 2003 5:34 pm

amen! haha yeah thats just about as right on as you can get. i think that no matter how many kids jump ship for juniors..we will always have an excellent state tourney, with unforgettable memories. i think there will be complete mutiny against the schools the day they write off the tournament. i dont think its in the near future..by any means <p></p><i></i>

LHSDad
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Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2003 10:32 am

Re: Southern MN

Post by LHSDad » Tue Nov 11, 2003 10:32 am

Mitch,<br><br>as a parent of last years team... 'not have resistence' is a relative term. MN Hockey put quite a bit of resistence (as in red tape in registering as a AAA team), at least a lot more than when I was a team manager of a Rochester Youth Hockey team. <br><br>Maybe it was perception from the 'outside' but the rumor mill was that the team was unwanted alternative to the Elite program. I don't know, but it was definitely an unwelcome feeling.<br><br>That said... While my son felt that John's practices were repetitive and somewhat boring compared to games (aren't they all), it did give him a quantum leap in terms of skills development, and the skaters on his team were arguably all top notch, and the competition John found was excellent.<br>I'm sure it helped my son achieve his hockey related goals as a HS player.<br> <p></p><i></i>

GB12
Posts: 25
Joined: Tue Feb 04, 2003 10:06 am

Midget???

Post by GB12 » Tue Nov 11, 2003 11:22 am

Let's not forget that most kids will never play anything beyond high school...so let them have fun with their high school friends and stop discussing a way to make "our" kids better than "their" kids. To say to drop high school hockey in favor of midgets to get the players to play more is the most stupid idea I have ever heard. You would want to change the make-up of the high school game and its state tournament for what maybe 1-2 kids in each community??? <br>What's wrong with kids playing 4 sports to better round out their talents? The day when hockey players only play hockey is when they should just close down hockey all together. If you look at many of the top kids in the state they are multiple sport athletes. Hockey year round, non-stop is the best way to make kids not like hockey. <p></p><i></i>

goldy313
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Re: Midget???

Post by goldy313 » Tue Nov 11, 2003 7:43 pm

Amen GB12,<br><br>Since when is developing kids tp play NCAA hockey ben the goal of anyone, save a very few of the extermely talented? <br><br>Since when is any money spent for the enjoyment and benefit of kids wrong? Be it in sports, drama, music, or books? Please show me a better use Joe, many kids go to school just for the extra-curricular activities, and you know what, they also pick up an education along the way, I bet many of us on here were in the same situation. Heck, I went to school just because by doing so it allowed me to play sports, I could of cared less about acedemics, but I graduated and learned quite a bit along the way. <br><br>If you take the school out of the equation, you will end up turning out kids with nothing but hockey in their heads, and that will get you a long ways. I have posted this comment before, but it bears repeating; way to many kids who leave high school for the juniors NEVER become students again, they either can not qualify for college, or they flunk out. The list is staggering. The USHL is a business, most of the kids spend little time in high school, are granted a diploma without learning anything, and the USHL could care less, after all making money is the bottom line. <br><br>Many of us know how much time Bantam hockey can eat up, adding another round of this while the acedemic load increases is plain stupid, for every kid who can handle it, there are 10 who can't. Wealready have a great system, why change it, how many more kids will we fill on WCHA rosters, and should it even matter, giving kids an opportunity to play is the paramount issue, not having 90% of the WCHA players, let alone the USHL being from Minnesota.<br><br>Just a prediction, in 10 years the USHL will cease to exist as we know it today, it grew to far to fast. Kids will not want to play in places like Kearney, Tulsa, et.al. when they can play in Bloomington and St. Cloud instead. <br><br> <p></p><i></i>

icerules00
Posts: 3
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2003 12:50 am

Re: Midget???

Post by icerules00 » Tue Nov 11, 2003 11:56 pm

<!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://www.ushl.com/about_about.htm" target="top">USHL.com About the USHL </a><!--EZCODE LINK END--> <!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr> I have posted this comment before, but it bears repeating; way to many kids who leave high school for the juniors NEVER become students again, they either can not qualify for college, or they flunk out. The list is staggering. The USHL is a business, most of the kids spend little time in high school, are granted a diploma without learning anything, and the USHL could care less, after all making money is the bottom line. <hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Because the USHL gears itself toward putting players in college and helping them earn scholarships, the emphasis on education is foremost for all 12 teams. Individual teams' academic coordinators work to make sure players have the academic capability to succeed in the classroom as well as on the ice. For players who are still in high school, teams work closely with local school officials to develop class schedules that keep players on pace for graduation and college entrance requirements.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--> How about before you spout off ignorant comments you do a little research. And this comment is just absurd <!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Just a prediction, in 10 years the USHL will cease to exist as we know it today, it grew to far to fast. Kids will not want to play in places like Kearney, Tulsa, et.al. when they can play in Bloomington and St. Cloud instead.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--> <p></p><i></i>

joe lulic
Posts: 284
Joined: Mon Jul 29, 2002 1:30 pm

midgets or munchkins?

Post by joe lulic » Wed Nov 12, 2003 9:02 am

<br>No one is suggesting that we do away with high school, just high school hockey. There will still be Homecoming and Prom and Senoir all night lock ins and graduation. Almost all of what we like about high school hockey would be the same. Why is it ok for a kid to play for his community thru 9th grade but then when he is a sophomore, he has to play for his school ? Is our connection to our schools based on sports? Is the answer "yes" but not until 10th grade? <br>There would still be a state tournament. The names would still be Edina, Eden Prarie, Bloomington, Roseau and Warroad. Old traditions would continue and new ones would start. Kids who grew up playing together would continue to play together. It wouldnt be a very big change. <p></p><i></i>

rustyblade
Posts: 53
Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2002 8:09 am

No h.s hockey??

Post by rustyblade » Wed Nov 12, 2003 9:47 am

If the schools ran the programs for the 90% that want to just play the sport and enjoy hockey, then an intramural program, well organized would satisfy most. Parents would be able to watch all games as they would be home games. A small tourney at the end could be a best of 5 series. Mini-Stanley Cup. Expenses for the schools would be way down.<br><br>For the diehard kid who can't get enough hockey, the Midget/junior team in the community could travel, have 30+ games, hire coaches as needed, mom and dad can run with them wherever the schedule leads them, and pay the bill for what ever expenses may arise. Get sponsor money to help defray the cost.<br><br>Or, things can stay the way they are with kids playing for their schools, satisfying most, frustrating some, and the school picks up most of the tab. Guidelines set by the schools/ state will be enforced and ALL athletes will abide by them. <br><br>Watch out what you wish for? <p></p><i></i>

joe lulic
Posts: 284
Joined: Mon Jul 29, 2002 1:30 pm

high schools and communuty

Post by joe lulic » Wed Nov 12, 2003 10:02 am

rustyblade, <br>Or you could do both. Have a high school team that plays 10 games, always on Saturday night to avoid conflicts. In addition have a community based system and kids could participate in either or both. <br><br>We have some experience with this, though not at the high school level. The Catholic schools around town have the CAA (catholic athlethtic association) . Kids that are junior high age (7th and 8th grade) play for their schools in various sports but the schedule is such that they can also participate in the community programs. It gives kids an opportunity to put on the school colors but still get the benefit of the community programs. I think the public schols do the same thing at the middddle school levels for certain sports. <p></p><i></i>

mnhshock29
Posts: 34
Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2003 11:02 pm

hs elite

Post by mnhshock29 » Wed Nov 12, 2003 11:08 pm

First, let me respond to the post a few pages back about "suspecting that someone in the elite league is making money." <br><br>Not true. The league has an underpaid, half-time, part-time administrative assistant (just added this year) and pays someone else a small fee for communications and Web work. The coaches are paid. That's it. I'd bet that the commissioner has lost money out of his pocket and even more from the time he takes away from his business to start and operate the league.<br><br>It IS a registered non-profit, 501(c)3 organization. Any donation made to the league would be tax-deductable for this reason. <br><br>Second and finally, regionalizing the league, adding teams, etc. is not what the league is about, nor what it should be about. We're talking about developing the top end of the pyramid with this program. The guys who would likely leave for juniors, or find their way into D-1 anyway. We want to get more of them there and make them better prepared. As I've said, despite what one of the posters thinks, if the best 50 kids were in southern MN, they'd all be in this league. Andy Roberts from Roch-Mayo was in the league this year and was a nice player. But, even while playing on the best team, with one of its most talented players, he garnered all of about 8 pts in 24 games. As for ND vs. IA, North Dakota has produced many more players than Iowa--Potulnys, Irmen, Jake Moreland, etc. They are further along, and yet are struggling to keep their guys. That's why they have struggled. We're patiently trying to see if this league will get them to the point where they can keep more of their top players. If they can't catch up, we will be forced to go it without them. That may result in another MN team, but not likely. If it does, it will not be a So. MN-Iowa team. It would be a team that would pull the next 20 best players (regardless of where they live). The city-state Project Prep was watered down and pretty much unsuccessful--that's why it died. It addressed the needs of only small pockets of players, not the majority of the top end. It wasn't highly-competitive and the most important consumers, the kids didn't buy into it. <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub33.ezboard.com/bmnhs.showUser ... shock29</A> at: 11/13/03 9:19 am<br></i>

GB12
Posts: 25
Joined: Tue Feb 04, 2003 10:06 am

High school hockey

Post by GB12 » Thu Nov 13, 2003 8:59 am

Who else thinks that joe is high on something. High school hockey is the best arena for displaying quality talent. Midget hockey is unacceptable for kids. Again we're talking about changing the make-up of the whole hockey system for 1 or 2 kids. <br><br>How would you explain the travel expenses? Do you think that parents will all pay for the travel? Or the uniforms, tape, etc? I doubt it. Except for Edina, Eden Prairie, etc where money is not object.<br><br>If Midget hockey is the answer then why is that everyone has high school hockey in every state and not Midget hockey? <br><br>Like I said before, you would be changing the format of hockey for one or two players in the community...why? The kids who would've went on play will anyway, no matter what the arena their talent is showcased...you would not improve the numbers of kids that "make it". <p></p><i></i>

joe lulic
Posts: 284
Joined: Mon Jul 29, 2002 1:30 pm

On something or on to something?

Post by joe lulic » Thu Nov 13, 2003 9:22 am

GB12, <br>My sons high school had its pre season hockey meeting last night for parents and players. The cost will be $275 for the year. Probably half of what it is worth but still not free. In these times schools are not going to continue to pay the bill for hockey and other sports. I think the people who play the sports ought to pay for it and not the taxpayers or other familys. They do until they make a high school team.<br><br>I know of no other state that produces any amount of D1 talent relying on the high school system. <br><br>Again, it wouldnt be that big of a change. It would be for everyones benefit, not just 1 or 2 kids.<br>This isnt about dispalying talent , its about 16-18 year old kids geting the best opportunity to play and get better at something they love without having to be an "elite" or go to some junior team in Bumscrew, Iowa to do it. Some want it be about all of our misty water colored memories. <p></p><i></i>

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