BU's Jack Parker "kids aren't having any fun"

atthepoint
Posts: 42
Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2003 8:04 pm

BU's Jack Parker "kids aren't having any fun"

Post by atthepoint » Thu Jan 08, 2004 8:24 am

From USCHO.com<br><br>Between the Lines: Jan. 5, 2004<br>by Adam Wodon/Columnist<br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.uscho.com/news/2004/01/05_00 ... <!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br> <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p074.ezboard.com/bmnhs.showUserP ... wker>Mitch Hawker</A> at: 9/6/05 12:12 pm<br></i>

oldwarrior
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2004 8:43 am

Jack Parker

Post by oldwarrior » Thu Jan 08, 2004 8:43 am

It strikes me that present day sports are more obligatory<br>than enjoyable for the kids. Does that lead to a drop off in talent, I think not. However I do believe that current levels of talent would be elevated dramatically if the old rinkratter mentality could be infused into todays kids. <p></p><i></i>

atthepoint
Posts: 42
Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2003 8:04 pm

kids having fun

Post by atthepoint » Thu Jan 08, 2004 9:22 am

Wayne Gretzky, on several occasions, has said that the thing missing from US hockey is rink rat play. He has lammented that everything has to be organized, regimented and directed.<br><br>Kids will love a game and want to excel in a sport in which they have fun. <p></p><i></i>

joe lulic
Posts: 284
Joined: Mon Jul 29, 2002 1:30 pm

Re: kids having fun

Post by joe lulic » Thu Jan 08, 2004 10:47 am

Fun? Fun to me, now and when I was a kid, is doing a back flip off of the diving board. Its acting silly with your pals; its building a snow fort. It doesn't have anything to do with sports.<br>All of you guys have played sports at one time or another and some of us still do. Is it fun standing over a 3 footer with the match on the line? Is it fun for a kid to stand in there trying to keep an inning alive when somebody twice his size is throwing pithches that look the size of BBs at him? Is it fun digging in a corner for a puck with somebody slamming into you? <br><br>People that want us to coach kids and formulate policy relative to sports while wearing a Barney the Dinosaur suit make me sick.<br><br>Well over half of the kids that start in organized sports quit by age 12. Why? Because they aren't having fun. Why? Because competitive athletics isn't for everybody. It isn't fun, the way I and a lot of kids define it. <br><br>People want athletics for kids to be like a field trip to the Zoo. Everybody gets to pet the tarantula. <br><br>I would also agree that we don't do a perfect job with kids and sports. Maybe some coaches yell too much etc etc. But , I think the biggest problem people have in discussing these issues is the failure to recognize competitive athletics for what there are and are not. <p></p><i></i>

Eddie Shore
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Re: kids having fun

Post by Eddie Shore » Thu Jan 08, 2004 11:30 am

Kids have fun playing the game. It was always fun for me to dig the puck out of the corner. Even after a case or two of the yips, it is fun to stand over the three-footer with the match on the line. <br><br>However, it is not fun when a seven year old kid is told that he or she is not good enough to play with their buddies because they will "hold back the potential development of the other child." It is not fun when a Pee Wee coach tells an 11 year old kid that he's the "worst f-ing hockey player he's ever seen" and compares him to a part of the female anatomy. It is not fun to have to travel from one end of the country to the other with dad and/or mom barking at the for not playing well enough. These are reasons why kids quit. Adults who couldn't make it who are going to make damn sure that that their kids make it for them.<br><br>No, competitive athletics are not for everybody. But I think the point that Parker and others (from Lucia to Gretzky, etc.) are making is that we are losing kids who do like to compete and do like to play and do like to have fun because we as adults have stripped away even the most basic elements of the fun and excitement of competition. <br><br>There are some kids that truly want to play 100 games a year. Most, however - including many that could turn out to be great players - would also like to play other sports and have time to do backflips off of the diving board and act silly with their pals. Unfortunately, they can't because they don't have time.<br><br>Joe, the happy, happy fun-time folks out there make me a little ill from time to time too. Kids should be pushed to do their best. And for some, this is why they walk away. You make the point that over half of the kids that take part in competitive athletics drop out by the age of twelve. Bottom line - that number is in this country. It's not even close to that percentage in other areas of the world, including many countries that regularly dominate the U.S. in athletic competition. The kids don't all quit because they don't like to compete - they don't like to compete on behalf of mom and dad or feel that if they don't do well that they are letting down every adult in their life.<br><br><br> <p></p><i></i>

joe lulic
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Re: kids having fun

Post by joe lulic » Thu Jan 08, 2004 12:07 pm

Eddie, I agree with you 100%. I acknowledge that we do have problems and your second paragraph is a good representation of some of them. The coach you mentioned ought to be horse whipped. <br><br>But that is the exception and I flinch when people point to that coach and say thats why kids quit. Anecdotes are useful but they dont fully explain everything.<br><br>I dont know what the stats are in other countries but you have to be careful because some of these places might not let you play in the first place unless you show a high degre of proficiency early on. <br><br>Sports is a huge part of our life. It is part of our fabric. We are a wealthy nation. I think as a result everybody signs up to play early on. This results in a higher drop out rate. <br><br>PS. What countries regularly dominate us in athletic competition? The only one I know of is the former USSR and I dont think they subsribed to the "lets just have fun" philosophy. <br> <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub33.ezboard.com/bmnhs.showUser ... elulic>joe lulic</A> at: 1/8/04 12:11 pm<br></i>

JLS 81
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Fun, Sports and Parents

Post by JLS 81 » Thu Jan 08, 2004 12:23 pm

There are varying degrees of what is the good, bad and ugly in youth sports and hockey is no different than the rest of youth sports. <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p074.ezboard.com/bmnhs.showUserP ... =jls81>JLS 81</A> at: 9/22/05 11:19 am<br></i>

Eddie Shore
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Re: kids having fun

Post by Eddie Shore » Thu Jan 08, 2004 12:32 pm

Joe,<br><br>All right, you got me with the USSR comment. <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :D --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... /happy.gif ALT=":D"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> But take a close look at the European style of hockey development and you may find a few things that we could incorporate here to make our kids find the game more enjoyable and keep them playing longer while turning out better, more skilled players. <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START ;) --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... s/wink.gif ALT=";)"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <br><br>My message wasn't so much directed at you as it was more of a general observation after nearly two decades of working with hockey players at many different levels. I've seen a dramatic change in the behavior of parents in the realm of youth athletics. It seems to me that there are too many people trying to drive their children to capture "the big prize" - whether that be a pro contract or a even a college scholarship.<br><br>Sports are part of our fabric, but I find that it is not the same with today's kids as it may have been for you or me. They have so many other options outside of athletics. Of course, that is part of the reason that so many of our kids are obese and juvenile-onset diabetes is on the verge of becoming a national epidemic. They're couch potatoes. That's why I'd like to see us find a way to keep some of these kids active in athletics past the age of 8 or 9. Plus, how many potentially great players/athletes do we miss out on because we drive them out of the game before they reach puberty?<br><br>I just don't see many kids today that have an all-consuming passion for athletics like many in my peer group did when I was growing up. They don't seem to follow sports the same way or look for a way to play all day - whether at the rink or the ballfield. <br><br>And I don't think it's the odd bad coach that's making kids quit en masse. I really think it's what goes on in the car and at the dinner table. It's keeping up with the Jonses - if Billy down the street is good player then you're going to be better, or mom and dad just won't be able to show their faces at the next neighborhood function. <br> <p></p><i></i>

joe lulic
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Joined: Mon Jul 29, 2002 1:30 pm

Re: kids having fun

Post by joe lulic » Thu Jan 08, 2004 12:56 pm

Eddie, You are right about the parents and kids today. Sports was all we had. In the summer, we went to the ballfields and in the winter to the rinks and gyms. Our indoor activity was the ping pong table in the basement. Thats what we did. My dad came and saw me play 5-6 times. My mom was way too busy with 4 other kids. But that was fine. We didnt care.<br><br>Now, the parents stay and watch practice. <br><br>But I wonder if ,from strictly an athletic development standpoint, it isnt better today. People spend all this time and money on their kids sports. I think it pays off for some. All of this intensity may drive some out but does it make those who stay that much better. People lament the drop out rate and rightfully so but is what contributes to the drop out rate also what keeps us going? Idunno. <p></p><i></i>

joe lulic
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Joined: Mon Jul 29, 2002 1:30 pm

Squirts

Post by joe lulic » Thu Jan 08, 2004 1:23 pm

JLS 81, It is a touchy subject. I think the best approach is to have an A team,a B team and C teams and travel. It is painful for a short while for the people who dont make the team they wanted to but they will have a nice uniform, league schedule, 2-3 tournaments and roughly the same amount of ice time and opportunity.<br><br>The other approach is to have them all play in house. This ,of course, irks the top players to no end. <br><br>The middle ground is the worse. Dont do it. You then have only 15 guys playing traveling hockey and they get more ice time and have a way more competitive experience than the rest. It is one thing to tell the kids ranked 16th and 17th that they will play on the B team but will get good coaching, league play and tournaments. It is quite another to tell them they will stay home. <p></p><i></i>

burnaby
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2002 7:41 pm

good points

Post by burnaby » Thu Jan 08, 2004 5:01 pm

Everyone has made some great points on this post. Most of which are 100% valid. One thing we've forgotten is the passion in which kids should be approaching the game. I think it is a bit hard to have that kind of passion when at such an early age you are encouraged to play one sport and excel at it. 10-12 month training, playing organized games, organized practices. Being at the "elite" level at an ungodly age. There is not very often any "free" time for these kids. Where is the creativity when you've always got a coach or parent down your back telling you which way to practice, which system to use and so on. I think maybe a lot of kids don't feel like it's their game anymore. It has the feel of being owned by the adults (parents, coaches). That certainly can't be that attractive to a lot of kids. You will always find those kids that eat, breath and drink a certain interest the majority of the time, but that is not for the majority of the kids. In the process I think we are missing out on a whole lot of potential "elite" players that might give us a whole new excitement to the game. Unfortunately, hockey as a whole is the loser! <p></p><i></i>

LHSDad
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Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2003 10:32 am

Re: Squirts

Post by LHSDad » Thu Jan 08, 2004 5:06 pm

Both RedWing and Hastings have in the past limited the travelling of squirt players (I don't think Hastings has a travelling program at that level, and Redwing, only formed B teams after the 1st of the year). They're programs seem to work okay. I feel they are programs to emulate. <br><br>As a parent who had two 'bubble' (A/B) players in the youth levels, one who moved to basketball because his friends were there (but also because there was way too much parental and coaching 'negativism') and the other who eventually worked is way into a first line position. His experience underscores an important point. He was happiest being the worst player on varsity, hanging with his friends, and learning the game. It also taught him the work ethic of guys like Stuart and Taylor, something you have to cultivate in your 'at-risk' kids. He learned the hard work required to 'play-up.' if peewee's and bantams could do more of that, I think you'd have less problems. if the 16/17 th skaters could skate with the A team occasionally, I think they can see their skill differential, as well as the efforts the star player put into the game.<br><br>(I do think that practices should be closed to parents.... primarily to allow the kids to get only 'one message'... from the coach. I know I was bad enough after (and during) games trying to 'encourage' my son).<br><br> Kids who quit because they think it's too hard, well, it probably is for them. Kids who quit because they think they have no chance, that's a shame. <br><br>off to the rink. Blake tonight. <p></p><i></i>

JLS 81
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Yout Hockey

Post by JLS 81 » Fri Jan 09, 2004 1:02 am

I like the comment about closing the practice to parents. Thank God it is so darn cold in northern Minnesota that when the kids are outside there are no parents around at all. I think the kids like that a lot.<br><br> <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p074.ezboard.com/bmnhs.showUserP ... =jls81>JLS 81</A> at: 9/22/05 11:20 am<br></i>

rustyblade
Posts: 53
Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2002 8:09 am

Fun/not fun

Post by rustyblade » Fri Jan 09, 2004 9:12 am

I believe I grew up in the "golden years" of hockey. We had no squirt or peewee program. I did not "have" to go to the area for a 6:00 a.m. practice. I did not "have" to travel 100 miles on weekends to play in tournaments and get roughly 15 minutes of ice time for each game played. <br>I could stay home and have unlimited ice time at the local rink. Sometimes we could not use sticks, as it was "Public Skating". Still we were there skating. There was no organized practices until Bantams. Parents rarely made it to out of town games. Never would you see a parent at a practice. We and FUN! It was our game! <br>I feel it no longer is the kids game. It has been taken away from them by being "organized, over coached, too serious"! Indeed, they are not having "fun" as we did growing up. Too bad, as that was when creativity and a burning desire to play the game was more evident than in todays players. <p></p><i></i>

joe lulic
Posts: 284
Joined: Mon Jul 29, 2002 1:30 pm

Re: Fun/not fun

Post by joe lulic » Fri Jan 09, 2004 9:45 am

I agree. I have lot of really great memories doin that stuff too. What are my kids going to remember? Parents hanging over the glass acting like morons? Over hearing constant discussions about hockey politics? Getting up at 6:00 am to "play" hockey? Going to Acceleration Minnesota? Great!<br><br>As I have posted before, I too long for the good old days but I also think that we do have better hockey players and more of them today. I just wonder,... at what cost? <p></p><i></i>

JLS 81
Posts: 386
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 3:08 pm

A Return to Yester year

Post by JLS 81 » Fri Jan 09, 2004 9:55 am

Guys,<br>Chances are wel will not get the "good old days" back. Heck 2 of my kids both in 3rd and 4th grade have more homework than I ever had in high school for crying out loud. As well the days of playing steel the flag chasing your favrite girl around the rink are over pretty much as kids have so many other commitments obligations plus the 2 parent overworked household or single family household that just did not exist in year gone by.<br>So what to do? That is the big question. If we can all do a small part it would go a long ways to help put a smile on a little kids face when they leave the rink. As Pat Guyer would say there is not much of a chance to bring the kids back to the old rink so you must bring that old rink back to the kids. Tom Malloy is doing yeomans work up in Canada on this.<br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.hockeycoach.com/home1.htm">w ... <!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--> Check it out small ice games are fun for kids. The parents might start barking as well as the other coaches but give it a try guys the kids love it and they do respond to small ice themed games quite well.<br> <p></p><i></i>

Eddie Shore
Posts: 240
Joined: Fri Apr 25, 2003 8:38 am

Re: A Return to Yester year

Post by Eddie Shore » Fri Jan 09, 2004 10:02 am

Great comments all around, guys. JLS is right, small games are a great way to bring the feeling of the outdoor rink indoors. Here's a link to another great small game resource: <!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.minnesotahockey.org/html/Coa ... <!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br>JLS, you couldn't be more on target about the homework. My second grader has at least an hour each night. I didn't bring home a book my junior or senior year. Which might explain alot....<!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :hat --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... s/pimp.gif ALT=":hat"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <p></p><i></i>

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