A vs. AA

Lbow7 · Post by **Lbow7** » Sat Aug 13, 2005 10:12 pm

here we go then on the free for all on A vs AA. First shot: Section 8 realignment. Alexandria opting down to A, Sauk Center, Long Prairie, Melrose (Prairie Center) moved to AA. I think someone at MSHSL was in the bathroom <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/pimp.gif ALT=":hat"> . Second shot: Public vs. Private, combinding open enrollment with a dash of A vs. AA, equalling recruting. i.e. new rule. Any time a school, public or private, has more than three players enrolled on open enrollment on varsity roster or a school has no community youth program tied to the school, they will be AA. O.K. sports fans, what do you think <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/devil.gif ALT=":evil"> .

Zamman · Post by **Zamman** » Sat Aug 13, 2005 10:32 pm

Another futile attempt at opening this topic. Lock it out before someone says something they will regret. Sorry people..... <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/alien.gif ALT="0]"> ________________________________ 2005 GIRLS STATE CHAMPS! 2002 & 2005 BOYS STATE CHAMPS!! GO STARS!!

hillhockey · Post by **hillhockey** » Sat Aug 13, 2005 10:56 pm

i think that is aimed in the right direction. i thought that maybe most suburban schools (especially private) should be AA. I don't mean to say that Simley for instance should be forces to play AA, but some schools should be forced up. right now, class is determined basically by enrollment, unless a school opts up. what if, a school's class was determined by the geographic area from which it draws its students? ie-Hill draws people drom blaine, wyoming, scandia, deep into wisconsin, and as far south as mendota heights area...definately AA material here. IT IS NOT PERFECT. Some northern schools would fit the aa bill too, so maybe it should be based on the number of students/athletes who live in the school's general pull area..

Lbow7 · Post by **Lbow7** » Sat Aug 13, 2005 11:31 pm

hillfan you are catching the drift. I give Hill and Hill West(AHA) credit for being in with the big shooters. Shows that the are willing to put their money where their mouth is. as for the MSHSL realignment in 8, there you have a situation of established program vs a program that needs to combine three small rural communities, to field one team. the MSHSL looks at total head count of all three schools and gives them a death sentence while giving the established program a pardon with the promise of a chance of rehab.

slapshotbg · Post by **slapshotbg** » Sun Aug 14, 2005 12:17 am

thats right aha puts there money where their mouth is.... again and again and again.... enough said?

Thunderbird88 · Post by **Thunderbird88** » Sun Aug 14, 2005 12:52 am

Why are you so against the topic of recruiting? Is it perhaps that your abvioulsy a Holy Angles supporter, which in fact is one of the biggest recruiters in the state. Please don't try and tell me that since Trebil arrived at your school, he has not recruited players from around the cities, especially Bloomington? The question regarding A vs. AA is a very good one, and your the first one to want to lock it out again. As far as where I coach, I will let that be for the time being. I do not wish to offend anyone in my community, or in our conference.. So with that said, have a great day...

MNPuckster27 · Post by **MNPuckster27** » Sun Aug 14, 2005 9:24 am

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>Public vs. Private, combinding open enrollment with a dash of A vs. AA, equalling recruting. i.e. new rule. Any time a school, public or private, has more than three players enrolled on open enrollment on varsity roster or a school has no community youth program tied to the school, they will be AA.<hr></blockquote> This is what I see as the down side to that rule. Look at the last couple years of class A hockey. It has really improved in depth when compared to AA. Now, take out teams such as Warroad, South St. Paul, and all the private schools (STA, D. Marshall, Lourdes, Section 5, etc.) and what have you got? Basically you are back to the Tier 1 - Tier 2 format with a few possible exceptions still down playing single A.

slapshotbg · Post by **slapshotbg** » Sun Aug 14, 2005 3:43 pm

hey thunderbird, you coach? No matter what Trebil does he is still three times the coach you could ever be... bottom line. So next time you want to bash him, think about what you have accomplished and then what he has. And when you are watching the AHA rip it up in the state championship from the confines of your house you will know who's your daddy.<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/roll.gif ALT=":rollin"> just having a little fun with you... but really

MNLIGHT39 · Post by **MNLIGHT39** » Sun Aug 14, 2005 4:09 pm

Benilde-St. Margarets moved to AA for this season as well. Edited by: <A HREF=http://p074.ezboard.com/bmnhs.showUserP ... LIGHT39</A> at: 8/14/05 4:12 pm

JLS 81 · Post by **JLS 81** » Sun Aug 14, 2005 6:24 pm

Trebil wins and is successful because of the talent plain and simple. Lets see what he can do with 1/3 of that talent year in and year out, than you could gauge his ability as a coach. which would probably still be pretty high. Even Zamman would agree that Trebil would have been hard pressed to make a winner out of AHA 'back in the day'.

carpenter guy · Post by **carpenter guy** » Sun Aug 14, 2005 6:38 pm

Trebil may be a good coach, but with talent like that a grade school child could win 20 games behind the bench.

power92 · Post by **power92** » Sun Aug 14, 2005 8:18 pm

Here are some facts. Trebil usually loses 2 or 3 players to Ann Arbour every year. There is just as much "talent" at schools like Wayzta, EP and WBL (sorry), but they just can't seem to get over the hump. I not huge Trebil fan, but you do have to respect the guy, he can coach.

packerboy · Post by **packerboy** » Mon Aug 15, 2005 8:52 am

carpenter guy, you may be right but he has done a lot n more than win 20 games. He has won 2 titles. That takes more than just having talent, as many a Spud fan would attest. As I have said many times, Class assignment should be based on 2 factors: 1. Enrollment 2. Success of program. Because of the attitude of the AHAs, HMs and now BSM and others, it isnt as bad as it could be. But how ridiculous would it be if all of those schools would play A as they could because of enrollment. It shouldnt matter if the school is private or Warroad. Enrollment should not be the only factor.

RLStars · Post by **RLStars** » Mon Aug 15, 2005 9:18 am

I think that the MSHSL needs to look closer and come up with a new guide line for the co-op schools and enrollment numbers. Prarie Centre, River Lakes, Monticello and others have no business competing with AA schools. Look at Monticello, they end up playing Moorhead most years in section playoffs and get creamed. Two years ago, I think it was 28 - 0, and last year wasn't that much better. I think that Monticello only has one youth hockey organization that is feeding the HS, but has several schools enrollment to count. My son will play for River Lakes eventually and they are in the same situation. The feeder for this HS team in the PNLS association and the CSA association. A couple years back, we decided to co-op or bantam players together so we could finally play A hockey. Both asscoiations could only field a B team, because of the low player numbers and lack of talent to play higher. Our co-oped A teams are not real competative yet, but are getting better. The HS team consists of New London/Spicer, Paynesville, Cold Spring St. John's Prep, Albany and Eden Valley/Watkins. If you take the enrollment from all those schools, I believe we are the largest school in the state. I think the MSHSL should consider taking a percentage of student enrollment numbers that each school has for the players on the co-op team. I think EVW only had 1 HS player last year, but I believe the entire enrollment is counted. Let some of these co-op schools play in class A and if they can compete for or win a section title and make it to state, move them up to AA based on their performance and program strength.

packerboy · Post by **packerboy** » Mon Aug 15, 2005 9:59 am

I think that there does need to be some enrollment number that ,if above it, you have to play in AA regardless of success of program. I dont know how to handle the co-op issue. On one hand, I can see the attitude of "hey, we let you combine, quit complaining". On the other hand, the way things are counted can lead to unfairnes. Although there is no perfect correlation between enrollment numbers and program success, a quick glance at recent champions in AA will tell you it does mean something.

RLStars · Post by **RLStars** » Mon Aug 15, 2005 10:17 am

What is the reason behind co-oping in the first place? In most cases its not to build a superpower. Its because some schools can not afford to keep the sport because of low particiation, declining populations, district tax base etc. What do the kids who want to play hockey do if thier HS drops hockey for finachial reasons? Do they HAVE to open enroll just to play hockey? I think most co-ops are just trying to let kids play hockey. Eden Valley doesn't have HS hockey on thier own, they don't even have youth hockey. But a player from Eden Valley can play youth hockey for whatever association will take them. Then as a ninth or tenth grader, they have to stop playing or open enroll. This could be a good reason for strength of the program to be included in the equation.

Kodiak · Post by **Kodiak** » Mon Aug 15, 2005 10:26 am

It's impossible to have a perfect system with this whole thing. It's too bad that a co-op program has to count the enrollments of all schools involved, but what else are you going to do? At least these kids are getting an opportunity to play high school hockey. St. Paul would have 2 teams (Como and Johnson) without the co-op. The Tri-City schools would have nothing. The St. Agnes/Bernards/Concordia team is still class A though right? Anyway, I think think that the current system is about as good as it's going to get. You could argue that all private schools should be AA, but then you would have to do the same for other sports. Immagine Blake playing Hopkins, or Breck (a great small school football team) against Eden Prairie in football. I realize that hockey is different, but it has to stay fair for all sports. I think the current system, where teams can opt up in any sport if they want to, is the best it's going to get, unless they make some hockey-only changes.

puckhead89 · Post by **puckhead89** » Mon Aug 15, 2005 10:39 am

This is an interesting topic. I, too, agree that many of the co-op schools have a tough time competing at the AA level. Especially the programs RLStars mentioned, many of those schools have new programs (or are considered new in the hockey world). I would guess that co-op schools are probably under pretty close scrutiny once they have merged sports programs. A question I have wondered about is why does Alexandria have the option to play A this year when they have always been AA? Has their enrollment status changed? Or were there other factors? I guess I ask because RLStars brought up Monticello, which clearly struggles at the AA level...wouldn't their program be better served at A...just like Alexandria's will now fit the A class better...for now. If someone could explain when the league accepts a change from AA to A, I would appreciate hearing your thoughts.

Knowlze · Post by **Knowlze** » Mon Aug 15, 2005 10:44 am

One class, one champion. The less talented teams can still be proud of their accomplishment in the quest for the championship.

RLStars · Post by **RLStars** » Mon Aug 15, 2005 10:53 am

Alexandria's enrollment has dropped below the AA thresh hold. I think they have been opting to play up for awhile now. Not every system will be perfect, but they all can use a little tweaking to get closer to perfection. A percentage of enrollment numbers at the co-oped schools vs. HS players on the team, past section performance, and coaches polls are a few things that could be considered in the class question reguarding co-ops.

Zamman · Post by **Zamman** » Mon Aug 15, 2005 8:43 pm

Ok Mr. Thunderbird88 here goes. I am not against the topic of recruiting, I am against all those people and yourself included who use this topic as a means of bashing a team. There have been investigations into the alleged recruiting affairs of many coaches and when there have been findings, there have been reprimands. I am a Holy Angels supporter, probably the biggest, but that does not matter. I also attended AHA and played hockey for them. We were a terrible team, but that was in the 70's when they were just starting out with boys sports. Taking shots at Trebil calling him a recruiter is so full of it. Do you know how many kids on last years team were from Bloomington, probably not. Yes when he arrived at AHA there were some kids who also came to AHA with him, but that does not mean he recruited them. The kids are from all over, just as they were 25 years ago when I was there. You obviously do not know how good of a motivator that Trebil is. I see him not only behind the bench, but in the locker room and away from the rink. He has a lot of good things to say about all teams and always points out which players to watch. I am not against the A vs AA, but your post went from A vs AA to recruiting and open enrollment. If you would like to talk with me via email, I will keep your animosity. Click my title and you will see my email address. <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/alien.gif ALT="0]"> ________________________________ 2005 GIRLS STATE CHAMPS! 2002 & 2005 BOYS STATE CHAMPS!! GO STARS!!

MNPuckster27 · Post by **MNPuckster27** » Tue Aug 16, 2005 9:36 am

Well said Zamman. I posed the question going into last years quarterfinal game against Jefferson, 'how many of AHA's players played in the bloomington area?' I believe the answer I got was 1, and I can't remember who it was. If someone wants to make a post based on recruiting, PLEASE have some facts (which to this day we have not seen on this board) and dont just come out bashing coaches or programs all together.

packerboy · Post by **packerboy** » Tue Aug 16, 2005 10:08 am

I agree puckster. Where should AHA's students/players come from?... Hill Muray's?.... Cretin's? What would be OK with the private school phobics? Is it OK for a kid from Shakopee to go to AHA but not from Bloomington? Where should the kid from Bloomington go if he wants an affordable Catholic high school education.... Totino? Is the kid from Bloomington going to AHA because of hockey? If so, hasnt he heard of Jefferson? I dont get it. Where should these kids go to private/ parochial school and why?

carpenter guy · Post by **carpenter guy** » Tue Aug 16, 2005 10:46 am

I have no problem with private schools if the reason kids go are for academic reasons. AHA went from doormat to powerhouse immediately. That is pretty suspicious that all of a sudden all these hockey studs decided to go to a private school. I'm not accusing anyone directly but to believe recruiting doesn't go on from coaches, schools, parents, business owners and so on is being ignorant. The MSHL realizes it's impossible to prove so it leaves it alone.

packerboy · Post by **packerboy** » Tue Aug 16, 2005 11:54 am

There is no academic reason to go to a Catholic high school vs a public one for the vast majority of people in Minnesota. Catholic schools dont offer anything different academically from public schools in the area and maybe less. All of these schools, private and public, send kids who work hard to great colleges and otherwise prepare them for whatever their next step is. So, when you say "I dont have a problem with private schools if the reason kids go are for acedemics" you are missing the mark unless you are referring to The Blake School or The Breck School or The SPA.<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/wink.gif ALT=";)"> Whether the school is private or public, choices have and will in the future be made based on athletic programs. Would a Catholic Jefferson hockey family have chosen AHA before Trebil arrived? Not too many did.

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