elite leaugue rosters

Observer85
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Location: At a rink near you....observing

Re: elite leaugue rosters

Post by Observer85 » Tue Sep 06, 2005 9:09 am

"bottom line it's all check book hockey........thank god the high school season will start shortly and all this phoney crap will be put behind us."<br><br>The difference between Elite I and say, Showcase hockey, are that games are actually viewed by legitimate NHL scouts, College coaches, USHL and NAHL coaches. Sure the parents have to pay for the kids to play but the Showcase games are <!--EZCODE UNDERLINE START--><span style="text-decoration:underline">not</span><!--EZCODE UNDERLINE END--> being viewed by the people who are looking at these kids for the next level. Even the Elite II group has scouts in attendence, just not as many.<br><br>Scouts & coaches I have talked to appreciate that the "better" players are brought together so they can see how they compete against these "better" players. <br><br>The problem with HS hockey is most teams do not have the depth, thus have one line, at best that play at a quality level. Therefore, the scouts and coaches in attendence don't get a true picture of what a kid is or is not capable of.<br> <p></p><i></i>

puckhead89
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Re: elite leaugue rosters

Post by puckhead89 » Tue Sep 06, 2005 9:29 am

Observer quote ".....the problem with high school hockey is that most high school teams do not have the depth......thus the scouts and coaches in attendance don't get a true picture of what a kid is or is not capable of." <br><br>Observer, while you maybe didn't mean to, you have hit yet another nail on the head as to why, at least Elite II's integrity is at issue. As other threads on this subject have indicated, something goes wrong when a coach for an elite II team is allowed to judge who is going to be on his team...and then chooses most of the players who are going to be playing in his own high school program.....do we have nothing more then, than a normal high school team during regular season?<br><br>So, now we see the flip side of the concerns, that no one has really voiced here with the Elite II....what about those players that truly belong there.....and are now playing with someone who maybe shouldn't be playing yet....are the scouts going to get a true picture of this athlete? I would agree with you that they will not. I have said many times, that talent, skill and drive is more apt to shine when tested. <p></p><i></i>

RLStars
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Observer and Puckhead

Post by RLStars » Tue Sep 06, 2005 10:12 am

When a poster on a different thread said <!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>A kid playing for Moorhead has a 20 goal season, a kid from Hallock has a 12 goal season - which one catches your eye?<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--> I say the kid with 12 goals should get a look and a chance to tryout with kids just as talented as him. <br><br>I would be more impressed with the 12 goal kid. He is probable the first line and only line on a weak varsity team. Let HIM play with upper level kids at a tryout and see what happens. <br><br>Lets see here, Moorhead puts thier top defensive line out against Hallocks (insert any bottom half team) top scoring line, what happens?<br><br>Moorheads top scoring line against a weak teams second, third line, whats going to happen?<br><br>I'll tell you, how does 15-1 sound. <p></p><i></i>

puckhead89
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Re: Observer and Puckhead

Post by puckhead89 » Tue Sep 06, 2005 11:02 am

RL Stars, you misunderstood my post. I am not saying that only the strong "programs" should place players in these elite leagues. Again, using West Metro as my example in the Elite II, there have been allegations that this involved coaches from a high school program who then managed, evaluated and will coach the section elite team. When their very own players are a part of the section tryouts, and are chosen over arguably better players, you end up with watered down talent if they can't evaluate fairly or without bias, i.e. better players being left off the team so that the coach's players on his regular season team can develop. I think you concur with that thought process.<br><br>Where the problem arises is when such inadequate evaluations or other processes occur that the purpose of the elite league (which is in part to provide an extraordinary competitive program) becomes lost...that is all I am saying. I think you know RL Stars from my previous posts that I like the little known guy more than the big name guy. But if there are good evaluations occurring with good format in place and the Moorhead guy still wins over the little known program guy, then I just want it to be because he really was better....in the eyes of the beholders who should have no self-serving interests in their mind's eyes. <p></p><i></i>

bdabbt75
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Re: elite leaugue rosters

Post by bdabbt75 » Tue Sep 06, 2005 11:19 am

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Observer, while you maybe didn't mean to, you have hit yet another nail on the head as to why, at least Elite II's integrity is at issue. As other threads on this subject have indicated, something goes wrong when a coach for an elite II team is allowed to judge who is going to be on his team...and then chooses most of the players who are going to be playing in his own high school program.....do we have nothing more then, than a normal high school team during regular season?<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>none of which is the issue with SE team. If there are teams that present those concerns (please name names... I'm not linked into the northern half of the state), then there is an issue. Until then, you're bringing up hypotheticals.<br><br>Elite II may or may not be fine... My exposure to Elite II is the SE area, which appears to be done 'right'. You're building a strawman to attack Elite II, not addressing the concerns raised on Elite I.<br><br>Elite I, still appears to have the 'by invite only' tag on it, the major reason why I still feel it's not the best it can be. Whether it be a coach, or someone who 'likes' the talent of a particular player (be it by last years capabilities, the kids parents/coaches lobbying, or the color of the kids eyes), those invites are subjective, and frought with error. <br><br>As long as the several Elite Caliber players end up in Elite II, Elite I has failed to some extent in doing it's job, minimially by providing a explicit tryout to validate the Elite I selection process, and ideally that every kid that is 'elite' has the scouting exposure they so deserve, whether or not they play for a 'good' HS team or not. <p></p><i></i>

puckhead89
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Re: bdabbit

Post by puckhead89 » Tue Sep 06, 2005 1:01 pm

First if you want a team that is at issue with the Elite II process, just check out the West Metro thread herein. There appears to be plenty to be concerned about within that section...so no "strawman attack" has been made by me, if that is your implication. I have encouraged those concerned about process within this league or within any section of the league to contact the commissioner. I know the SE team seems to be doing well in its process...SiouxFan keeps the readers well informed. <br><br>My point to Observer seems to have been lost by you and maybe I didn't make myself clear. I am not bashing high school programs or the kids. IF there are to be leagues who are proposing to offer the best competition in the state of Minnesota, then the selection process needs to be refined and/or re-evaluated in Elite II. Again, if you read the other threads about elite II you will see there are concerns and they need to be addressed. <br><br><br><br><br><br> <p></p><i></i>

toepull
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Re: bdabbit

Post by toepull » Tue Sep 06, 2005 1:35 pm

Any doubt that the West Metro thread regarding the EliteII process is based on fact and not just some mudslinging by a couple of disgruntled individuals?<br> I made a number of phone calls after reading that thread and there are a NUMBER of complete bogus statements that have been treated as fact. These bogus claims are now being used to claim that the West Metro team is a sham. A sham might be in the making but I'm not sure it's with the West Metro team. <p></p><i></i>

RLStars
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Toepull

Post by RLStars » Tue Sep 06, 2005 1:48 pm

Could you enlighten us with what you know to be bogus. I for one am interested in what you have found out. You can send a personal message if you want.<!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :D --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/happy.gif ALT=":D"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <p></p><i></i>

puckhead89
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Re: Toepull

Post by puckhead89 » Tue Sep 06, 2005 2:31 pm

I, too would accept a personal message. I am interested in getting to the bottom of this. <p></p><i></i>

bdabbt75
Posts: 78
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Re: Toepull

Post by bdabbt75 » Tue Sep 06, 2005 2:56 pm

as we can see, we have facts and we have board postings.<br><br>If puckhead is basing his arguments on postings on a website, that is basically all I need to know. We'd have all marched into Richfield and lynched Trebil if all we had were website postings as evidence of his right or wrong doings in Bloomington and AHA....;-).<br><br>The strawman is the discussion on the elite I selection process, and you then attacked the elite II process(strawman), since you are not able/wanting to discuss/defind the Elite I process. To be honest, even if you had facts on Elite II, it would still be a strawman attack (deflect the discussion to something you think you can win, as opposed to something you are ill-prepared to defend).<br><br> <p></p><i></i>

puckhead89
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Re: Toepull

Post by puckhead89 » Tue Sep 06, 2005 3:35 pm

dbabbit, please note I spoke of Elite II in my post as a response to what Observer brought up. If you read his post, he did refer to Elite II. I didn't bring Elite II into this discussion out of the air. <p></p><i></i>

bdabbt75
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hmmm... it's bdabbt

Post by bdabbt75 » Wed Sep 07, 2005 6:26 am

<br>I don't think you understand debate terms.<br><br>And the reference "Even the Elite II group has scouts in attendence, just not as many....." seems like an interesting seque into accusing Elite II teams of subjective selection processes.<br><br>But to each their own. You wanted to say something, you did. we discussed it, found your position lacking facts, and we'll move on. <p></p><i></i>

puckhead89
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Re: hmmm... it's bdabbt

Post by puckhead89 » Wed Sep 07, 2005 7:58 am

Actually, I debate for a living.....perhaps you are the one who misconstrues, twists and turns. The Elite II had been in debate long before I responded to a comment made by someone else. But, rest assured, I likely will ignore any further of your posts. <p></p><i></i>

WBLBEARS06
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Re: hmmm... it's bdabbt

Post by WBLBEARS06 » Sun Sep 25, 2005 6:05 pm

how much do tickets cost for the games, or do they even charge admission? <p>The curse lives on.....</p><i></i>

puckhead89
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Re: admission

Post by puckhead89 » Mon Sep 26, 2005 9:38 am

No charge. <p></p><i></i>

WBLBEARS06
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Re: admission

Post by WBLBEARS06 » Mon Sep 26, 2005 1:52 pm

are you 100% on that because i have heard 5 dollars from numerous people. <p>The curse lives on.....</p><i></i>

RLStars
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Location: State of Hockey

Re: admission

Post by RLStars » Mon Sep 26, 2005 2:19 pm

It sounds like it depends on if your talking about the Upper Midwest Elite League or the Elite II league.<br><br>I have read it is 5 bucks to attend an Upper Midwest Elite game and free for Elite II. <p></p><i></i>

elliott70
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Re: admission

Post by elliott70 » Mon Sep 26, 2005 3:59 pm

Since I have worked at the admission table of the Elite league (one, I or Upper Midwest whichever name you prefer)...<br><br>I can tell you it is $5.00 per session - usually two games per session - Sat AM, Sat PM and Sunday.<br><br>I have no idea if elite 2 charges. <p></p><i></i>

puckhead89
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Re: admission

Post by puckhead89 » Mon Sep 26, 2005 4:21 pm

Elite II does not charge. <p></p><i></i>

WBLBEARS06
Posts: 523
Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2004 2:05 pm

Re: admission

Post by WBLBEARS06 » Mon Sep 26, 2005 4:35 pm

alright, thanks for clarifying guys <p>The curse lives on.....</p><i></i>

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