elite leaugue rosters

packerboy
Posts: 5259
Joined: Tue Sep 30, 2003 11:51 am

Re: Selection process

Post by packerboy » Wed Jul 13, 2005 1:07 pm

Sioux Fan, I cant define it but in the context of this topic and my post it would mean a player who was clearly in the top half of the 120 but didnt get picked. <br><br>We can talk about the dads who have a blown up perception of what their son has talent wise but the more difficult issues are with "the bubble players". <br><br>I have been involved in running tryouts and will get the call from the dissapointed parent complaining that "Billy is just as good as Johnny " <br><br>And he is right. Johnny was the last player taken and scored some miniscule number of points more than Billy. But there are only so many spots.<br><br>If we started the tryouts over again the next day, Billy might beat out Johnny by the same narrow margin.<br><br>So, my question is are we talking about a lot of "Billys" who didnt make it or is it something else like players who are in the top half .."truly elite"<br><br>I am sure some of these guys will do OK in the corners. <br> <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p074.ezboard.com/bmnhs.showUserP ... ckerboy</A> at: 7/13/05 1:25 pm<br></i>

Sioux Fan
Posts: 552
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2003 2:56 pm
Location: Rochester, MN

Re: Selection process

Post by Sioux Fan » Wed Jul 13, 2005 2:36 pm

Some is not enough Elite players may not have to go into the corners. <p>Hockey Nut in So. MN</p><i></i>

juniorhockey
Posts: 241
Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2002 6:54 pm

USHL??

Post by juniorhockey » Wed Jul 13, 2005 4:45 pm

Just a Conspiracy Theory here...<br><br>Maybe the Elite League is so young because it is cattering to the every changing trendes in Hockey... Everything is younger!!<br><br>Rumor has it the USHL is younger this year then EVER before, and we all know how the D1 programs are signing players at an earlier age then ever before...<br><br>If the Elite league is as young as everyone says, and I haven't even looked at the rosters to see how younger everyone is; then maybe the Elite league is cattering to these leagues as it is it's target audience.<br><br> <p></p><i></i>

Finn70
Posts: 138
Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2003 12:50 pm

Re: USHL??

Post by Finn70 » Wed Jul 13, 2005 6:44 pm

Some people may rate a kid #121 (and he doesn't make it) while somebody else has the same kid at #110 and he would make it. How do we know which rating is wrong? Some people think he deserves to make it, other do not. <br><br>Everybody has an opinion on the kid but nobody has any fact to say he should or shouldn't be on it when it is a borderline type. The teams are chosen by human beings and there is no perfect way of doing it.<br><br>The simple fact is it is a tough process to pick and not everybody can be a part of it.<br><br>It is clear having read his posts in the past that the only reason Sioux Fan even says anything is because he thinks southern MN kids are God's gift to hockey and he complains because there aren't enough of them in the elite league. That and the fact that they probably don't give him the time of day in terms of asking him to help coach in the league. <br><br>If the league had some more southern MN kids, he wouldn't say a peep about how the elite league process is done. He is just another example of how the critics often only complain if their own self centered needs aren't fulfilled. They often only care about their own ego and the pride of their local area <p></p><i></i>

defencewinsgames
Posts: 140
Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2005 10:44 pm

Sioux Fan

Post by defencewinsgames » Wed Jul 13, 2005 9:53 pm

Although he is an advocate for So MN he has great knowledge about players around the state-- dont dis a guy who thinks that hard work beats talent when talent doesnt work hard!!<!--EZCODE EMOTICON START ;) --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/wink.gif ALT=";)"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <p></p><i></i>

war hock
Posts: 95
Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2005 5:45 pm

players that deserve to make it

Post by war hock » Thu Jul 14, 2005 12:35 am

as for some players that probably should have made it<br>Kevin Jones or Matt Letourneau from DM<br>....any others who desrved a spot based on performance last year?<br>also whats with the amount of kids on the teams, seems like 5 lines on each? <p></p><i></i>

wild77
Posts: 375
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2004 8:54 am

Re: players that deserve to make it

Post by wild77 » Thu Jul 14, 2005 5:51 am

good point war hock. I also noticed that and was somewhat surprised. Playing 4 lines is tough enough, but it helps that the periods are 20 minutes. I suppose one line will sit per weekend? <p></p><i></i>

traveler
Posts: 62
Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2004 9:46 am

Re: players that deserve to make it

Post by traveler » Thu Jul 14, 2005 6:47 am

Very interesting summer topic, I think the problem here is not the players selected but in the desciption of the player as some of you have eluded to.Any time we single out , identify, or other wise segregate individual players we do the game and the players an injustice. Because when we do that we change the focus of the game from one of technical skills and fun to one of expectations and inaccurate perceptions. In direct contradiction the "team " sport of hockey, allstar teams, elite teams, AAA teams, all promote things associated with individuals. On the positive side these type of teams and events do allow growth in players as they have to interact with others outside of there normal circle of influence, enhancing there social skills and in short developing new friendships, some which last a life time. <br>By the way, even the tryouts for these type of Elite events are a product of individualism and marketing. If you want to make the team, its all about you in the days off the tryouts. <br>and consequently when you go back to your home town the question is always" How did <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>you</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--> do out there????" Just a different perspective. <p></p><i></i>

puckhead89
Posts: 416
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2005 10:37 pm

Re: players that deserve to make it

Post by puckhead89 » Thu Jul 14, 2005 7:36 am

I believe the excess numbers of players per team represents alternates that are chosen as well. In years past, the rosters reflected "alternates" but I only see that term on one team. I know last year those who were alternates did not see much, if any, playing time. So maybe they are handling things a tad different this year, but I don't know for sure. <p></p><i></i>

puckhead89
Posts: 416
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2005 10:37 pm

Re: USHL??

Post by puckhead89 » Thu Jul 14, 2005 7:47 am

Boy, Finn, you sure have a different take on SiouxFan than I do. I have found him informative and frankly not abrassive at all. <br><br>Reality is that he is no different than you, me or anyone else who would like to see some kids from their own area have opportunity. It's human nature....just like questioning the systems. Sometimes we just gotta do it! <p></p><i></i>

pokecheck
Posts: 37
Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2004 1:50 pm

I think we should ask the players for input also

Post by pokecheck » Thu Jul 14, 2005 8:52 am

The players know who can play and I think they should be asked also.<br>Develop a set of voting rules where you can't vote for yourself or all of your friends and be part of the process.<br><br>Include skills inventory questions that hilite which traits are important for developing great hockey players.<br>Rate skating ability/mobility/stability.<br>Rate passing/stickhandling/pass receiving.<br>Rate hockey sense/ice awareness/vision.<br>Rate desire/work ethic/heart.<br>Ask them who they think has the most potential for being named most improved player.<br><br>When they get done evaluating the better players they will also know what they need to work on. <p></p><i></i>

Finn70
Posts: 138
Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2003 12:50 pm

Re: I think we should ask the players for input also

Post by Finn70 » Thu Jul 14, 2005 9:30 am

puckhead89,<br><br>where you are wrong with lumping people together is I really don't care who does or doesn't make the league. I don't favor a kid from Moorhead any more than I favor a kid from Rochester. I have no loyalties to any specific area of the state. I think the league is a good thing and doing its best to help as much as it can. I just get tired of whiners who often have ulterior motives for being negative.<br><br>The critics often whine but the suggestions they make (if they even bother to make any) often don't make the process any better or any more fair. Personally, I would rather the process be done the way it is than any other suggestions I have read.<br><br>I suppose if we want to be unrealistic, we could throw a bundle of scouts out there to see every last kid across the state play a handful of times, then have every kid in the state tryout for a week and then pick the teams. But that would be ridiculous to expect because of time and money factors. In other words, there is no perfect way of doing it. It has a human element to it which makes it imperfect and people opinions on different players will vary. No amount of whining will change the fact that there isn't a perfect way to pick the players without bruising some egos. <p></p><i></i>

elliott70
Posts: 13100
Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2004 3:47 pm
Location: Bemidji

sioux fan

Post by elliott70 » Thu Jul 14, 2005 10:10 am

SFan is a good hockey guy.<br>He promotes the kids he knows who are from southern MN.<br>Nothing wrong with doing that.<br>He understands how the league picks kids and does what he can to support southern MN kids into the league.<br><br>There are a lot of good hockey players in MN. Would another league help? Say Fall elite(top 120 as picked by the Russo group), Fall senior (top 100 after elite), Fall Junior, Fall Soph.<br>Perhaps.<br><br>Sioux fan makes a good point about practice time vs game time, but the elite league is offering more games to compliment the HS season (and allow scouts to see several kids at one venue). In addition some areas of the state make weekday practices impossible. Give up a weekeknd of games for practice. It is already being done. Is there a better way to do things? Maybe. But Russ's group looks at it. But change is difficult and expenseive in terms of $'s and time from volunteers.<br><br>And some people do not believe the truth on how things work and are not willing to take the initiative and money to start something. They prefer the rumors and the whining. And Sioux Fan is not one of those people.<br><br> <p></p><i></i>

traveler
Posts: 62
Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2004 9:46 am

Re: sioux fan

Post by traveler » Thu Jul 14, 2005 11:12 am

elliot where are you and sioux fan going on your honeymoon? <p></p><i></i>

Sioux Fan
Posts: 552
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2003 2:56 pm
Location: Rochester, MN

Re: sioux fan

Post by Sioux Fan » Thu Jul 14, 2005 1:18 pm

Mr. Elliot and I were involved in these fall leagues since Ted Brill and Mr Herb Brooks started them.<br><br>The initial Name was Project Prep for Preparation.<br><br>I still like that better. Mr Elliot had a strong north team with the Klema bros Lundbohm Brandt and many other excellent players such as Matt Demarchi. <br><br>Believe it or not our Southern Team did very well against those strong Team North groups. winning our fair share.<br><br>I know what it takes. Sweat and focus on making weaknesses into strengths. Not showcasing and hiding the things players don't do well. That is the main difference between showcase games and practice and development. I like hockey players from everywhere. I think we need to focus more on helping players get ready for future challenges than naming them and showcasing them. I am all for preparing them. I firmly believe that Mr. Brill and Mr. Brooks along with Charlie Graves and Pat Westrum and myself all feel that should be the focus.<br><br>I like what Mr Russo has done regarding the great coaches and having the scouts view the players but am not sure about the appointment process which is much more subjective than fact. If I ever knew who my top 5 guys vs 20 - 25 I would be surprised. I am not that smart. <p>Hockey Nut in So. MN</p><i></i>

packerboy
Posts: 5259
Joined: Tue Sep 30, 2003 11:51 am

Re: sioux fan

Post by packerboy » Thu Jul 14, 2005 1:52 pm

Nice to hear that there are still people out there who are more interested in the development of talent than being a talent scout/evaluator.<br><br><br>IMO, any idiot can spot talent. You could take a 8 year old and have him pick out the best players. <br><br>To take what talent is there and smooth it out and make it better is what we ought to be focusing more on. Does the elite league do that? What is the practice to game ratio?<br><br> <p></p><i></i>

NPGandyDancer
Posts: 175
Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2005 1:36 pm

Re: sioux fan

Post by NPGandyDancer » Thu Jul 14, 2005 2:23 pm

sioux...if i had a kid playing i'd want him to adhere to your training and development ethos as stated in your post!<br><br>classy retort to the honeymoon gambit... <p></p><i></i>

nhu hockey
Posts: 10
Joined: Wed May 11, 2005 8:22 pm

sioux fan

Post by nhu hockey » Thu Jul 14, 2005 3:03 pm

sioux fan i find it funny that you wine about the politics in picking these elite teams. when you yourself are apart of select-team tryouts, which just happin to be where politics in hockey are the most. yes, there some really talented kids here in southern minn. but weather we like it or not politics is part of the game it shouldn't be but it is. you see it at every level of play. <p></p><i></i>

Sioux Fan
Posts: 552
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2003 2:56 pm
Location: Rochester, MN

Re: sioux fan

Post by Sioux Fan » Thu Jul 14, 2005 4:41 pm

<br><br>My final cut day is quite a bit different. <br><br>When we get to the last 18 players that are battling for 9 spots we let them play 3 on 3 for 45 minutes and I ask the two on ice coaches to let me know who were the top 9 players.<br><br>I let the boys decide it. If they quit in this grueling final day match up late in the final scrimmage they will not be a part of our club.<br><br>Quite a different method than arbitrary political selection.<br><br>More like Natural Selection.<br><br>I also make it clear to all the boys that I cut that I often make mistakes and if it were up to me they all would have a place to play. I also ask them to prove to me during their High School season that I was wrong.<br><br>I also have had players who I have cut come into my office and tell me that I am wrong and they have been correct gotten another chance to show me and have then made the team. I like kids that don't take no for an answer.<br><br>I am not perfect and am flawed but I like to challenge young players to get better.<br><br><br> <p>Hockey Nut in So. MN</p><i></i>

HOCKEYGIRL007
Posts: 5
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2005 4:45 pm

Re: "elite" ? league

Post by HOCKEYGIRL007 » Thu Jul 14, 2005 4:45 pm

THE 2 TOP FRESHMEN IN THE STATE ARE NOT ON THE LEAGUE...SAGETTI AND ARNT, BIG DEAL ABOUT THIS LEAGUE <p></p><i></i>

Hillfan
Posts: 731
Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2003 4:48 pm

Elite League

Post by Hillfan » Thu Jul 14, 2005 5:05 pm

I thought only juniors and seniors were invited to this... but I must be wrong <p></p><i></i>

outdoorrink
Posts: 37
Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2004 10:10 am

Re: Elite League

Post by outdoorrink » Thu Jul 14, 2005 5:20 pm

Nicco Sachetti is a football player who declined to be on one of the rosters. <p></p><i></i>

ONMHockey
Posts: 66
Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2005 10:18 pm

League intent

Post by ONMHockey » Thu Jul 14, 2005 5:56 pm

The chartered intent of the program, keep our seniors at home with their HS programs, has deteriated. Not only has 11th grade recruitment into the Elite League expanded, but the league is now rostering sophomores, and this year even a freshman. The expanded rostering of these young players is not welcomed by all program coaches and is often done "behind the scenes autonomously" at the exclusion of senior players. The expanded rostering of last year's sophomores, and now a freshman this year, has caught some coaches talking out both sides of their mouths. <br><br>The focus of the league has shifted from a true upper classmen stay-home-enticement to "let's develop all of our best talent as we are best able to identify that talent."<br><br>The shift in focus is not openly admitted and is a propellant for sour feeling. Now skaters from seniors down the ranks through sophomores to freshmen, all over the state, are wondering whether they were looked at. Review the league's mission statement.<br> <p></p><i></i>

goldy313
Posts: 3246
Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2002 11:56 am

Re: League intent

Post by goldy313 » Thu Jul 14, 2005 9:12 pm

This year I can't think of many kids who should have been on a team and were left off, come January though we'll wonder how this kid wasn't in the league or how could they have cut that kid. That's the nature of the beast, there is some prognostigating that goes on and kids being kids, they develop at different rates. <br><br>Someone asked for suggestions, here's one....get rid of the try out...period. Have coaches nominate kids like they do now, four from your team and four from other teams, and leave it at that. Of course posistions will have to be accounted for. Start the process at the end of February, invite kids at the end of the school year and go from there. Rank the kids by nominations and just go down the list if the top 120 make accept it, fine that's it. Anybody declines give the slot to the next kid who didn't. Picking for a league like this based on a quick try-out is tough. It's summer, kids should have Legion games, jobs, <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>lives</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--> outside of hockey and those are important, more so than any hockey league. <br><br>Is asking Johnny to call in sick to work, miss a ball game, or time with his friends any better than having Johnny come to try-outs tired because he had to get up and go to work early or tired because he played 3rd base in a Legion double header that afternoon a way to pick a team? Or worse, picking kids that didn't try out because they couldn't make it. Yet, that's what is being done. Get rid of the try-out process, use what everybody saw for 3 months last winter and get on with the league. <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p074.ezboard.com/bmnhs.showUserP ... oldy313</A> at: 7/14/05 10:01 pm<br></i>

puckhead89
Posts: 416
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2005 10:37 pm

Re: I think we should ask the players for input also

Post by puckhead89 » Fri Jul 15, 2005 7:21 am

Finn,<br><br>Please take the time to review my earlier posts on this subject....I am not on the opposite side of the fence of you, as you suggest. My last comment was to curb your attack on SiouxFan and to clarify that everyone, yes even you Finn, has loyalty somewhere. The difference in the loyalty is how much one lets it fog their vision or decision making. <p></p><i></i>

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