Private schools with there own section

ronnyevhs · Post by **ronnyevhs** » Tue Oct 18, 2005 11:06 pm

AHA, academy of holy angels, is getting better and will only get better, and i dont know about anyone else but i am getting sick of having them beat everyone and winning state, simply because they can recruit players, many of which from teams that end up losing to them in the years before...I think it is unfair that they remain in the MSHSL mens hockey and think that they should at least be put into an all private school section so that they have some competition to get to state each year. This year unless they play horribly nobody will beat them and that seems unfair to teams who play hard every year and lose to them every year. They have been in state the last 4 years and won 2/4 is this fair???

MNPuckster27 · Post by **MNPuckster27** » Tue Oct 18, 2005 11:51 pm

Lets not start the public vs. private thing again... Besides Moorhead has been to 5 state tournaments in a row, what section should they be in? And no AHA, Hill-Murray, Breck, Duluth Marshall, don't recruit, they dont need to... I would, and so would the rest of this board, reallly enjoy hearing a TRUE story with FACTS and EVIDENCE of a private, or public school for that matter, "recruiting" a player. In AHA and Hill's case in particular (probably other schools too but I dont know as much about the rest of them) 99% of the players are enrolled in school there from 7th or 9th grade on, and pay their dues on the JV teams.

JLS 81 · Post by **JLS 81** » Wed Oct 19, 2005 4:57 am

I think you can bring this topic up as a thread without having it locked if the discussion is a discussion and remains on topic. Pro's: It could possibly alter the balance of school strength right within the private section itself from year to year. For example (hypothetical) a kid might go to BSM his senior year rather than to AHA speculating that BSM has deeper talent in that given season and offers a greater percentage chance to win the state tournament. Would make for a very great section...quite possible better than state to some extent. Con's I do like the privates in the single A tournament as thus far they have added depth to that field and offered some of the best games year in year out. Example: Warroad vs. Totino Grace (2005) Breck vs SSP (2004). Comment: If you were to do this type of move it would require that the publics schools forgo the open enrollment policy as well just to balance it out a bit. Whats fair for the privates should also apply to the publics right along. This is falls under either a PRO or a CON depending on what you think is fair. It could turn out to be a litigation nightmare for the state to handle. Turning over open enrollment policy would for certain bring on lawsuits as well the privates would have their day in court over subsequent move to one section. In todays society it is not far fethced that their would be huge legal battles pursued.

diskman · Post by **diskman** » Wed Oct 19, 2005 8:22 am

I like the idea of privates having their own conference or at least their own section. There are certainly enough of them and it would make it apples vs apples and oranges vs. oranges. I don't think open enrollment for public schools is that big of a factor. There are only a couple of open enrolled kids at any given school. It's not like a private school where technically, the whole team is open enrolled. I don't know why this wasn't done a long time ago.

packerboy · Post by **packerboy** » Wed Oct 19, 2005 8:39 am

If it were a public school who looked like they had a chance to repeat, would your position be the same? How were you able to handle it when Jefferson won 3 in a row in the 90's? Certainly they must have had some unfair advantage to accomplish that. Right? Should we put all of the huge, rich from tax dollars, suburban schools in the same section? We could then chant "daddys tax dollars" all through the section tournament. Take a look at who has won the State Tournament the last 25 years. Yup, lets put all the big suburban schools in one section. I cant believe that hasnt been done yet. Ah....wait a minute...who would the winner play in the state tournament then?

diskman · Post by **diskman** » Wed Oct 19, 2005 8:52 am

I didn't say anything about the state tournament in my post. Maybe you were talking to someone else. I don't have a problem with private schools in the tournament. I just think that Hill, Blake, Breck, AHA, St. Thomas, etc. could just be in the same conference or section.

Zamman · Post by **Zamman** » Wed Oct 19, 2005 9:12 am

ronnyevhs, Well ronny you have a valid thread started. It is just too bad that you did not keep your thoughts on the thread topic. The topic was "Private schools with their own section". You just mentioned AHA, no other schools, and I see that you are an Eastview student or alum, who will have to face AHA at some point. In addtion you mentioned the "R" word, and anyone from Eastview should know better than using this word in any post. Could the private schools have their own section?, sure. Would it be right? probably not. The sections, for the most part are set up geographically, and the last time I checked Rochester Lourdes is not in the same geographic region as Holy Family or worse yet any school in Duluth, Denfeld?? I cannot remember the private school there. Next point, what about the schools that are made up of a public and private school, such as Austin and Pacelli? Do we make exceptions for these schools, then the theory is wrong. Right now the only private schools that go to state are AHA and Hill Murray for AA, and the section 5 winner from class A. Yes St. Thomas, and Lourdes has been there but not most every year. AHA has been there only 5 times in the last 7 years and Hill Murray is not always there. Yes they are good teams and will continue to be good. They have a reputation of being a good team with an excellant coach. Maybe the real solution would first to move all the "metro" privates to class AA, then the fare shake factor is here. The outstate teams do not have the same advantage as the metro teams. The only problem is these teams will not be super teams for ever, and the larger public districts will take over. Then what do we do? move them back to class A till they are strong again? Benilde has moved up to class AA and they are in a very competitive section, I wish them good luck. Again you have a valid topic, but your reasoning is all wrong. ________________________________ Academy of Holy Angels 2005 GIRLS STATE CHAMPS! 2002 & 2005 BOYS STATE CHAMPS!! GO STARS!!

packerboy · Post by **packerboy** » Wed Oct 19, 2005 9:13 am

if they are all in the same section, only one of them gets in the tournament. If thats OK with you, should we do the same thing with EP, BJ, Cent, Edina, etc etc?

diskman · Post by **diskman** » Wed Oct 19, 2005 9:23 am

Would be fine with me. If the conference is set up geographically, why does AHA play New Prague and other teams that are not close at all?? Maybe the section assignments could be mixed up from year to year so that no one team wins a section every year. Dumb idea? I guess there would probably be other ramifications to this.

Zamman · Post by **Zamman** » Wed Oct 19, 2005 9:29 am

Please reread my post, I said the sections are set up geographically, not the conference. Conferences are set up for the school as a whole. AHA used to be in a conference know as the Don Bosco conference, and with the exception of MPLS Lutheren was all cathoic schools. Brady and Regina closed and Lutheren moved so three of the schools were gone. As to the reason why the conference disbanded, I do not know. AHA went to the Minnesopta Valley conference, then on to the Missota. Look at all other sports for AHA. They compete pretty nicely with the other schools in the conference, and the bylaws of the conference state one team all teams. We have left the topic, so I will stop. ________________________________ Academy of Holy Angels 2005 GIRLS STATE CHAMPS! 2002 & 2005 BOYS STATE CHAMPS!! GO STARS!!

PAMESH · Post by **PAMESH** » Wed Oct 19, 2005 9:41 am

Why does Moorhead play Monticello which is even farther off? The biggest flaw in your idea off putting them all in one section is one of them will have to get to the state tournament every year and if that section wins it repeatedly you will not be happy with that. If that happened I would see an even larger exodus of players from public to private schools. For future references don't say they "recruit" say they "attract". Because they definetly do attract players.

elliott70 · Post by **elliott70** » Wed Oct 19, 2005 9:49 am

I would say no, if I had a vote. I like the fact that we could have a state tournament with no private schools. Just as we could have a 'AA' state tournament with 2 or 3 or 4 small schools (Go Roseau). Do the private schools have an advantage - perhaps. But does WBL have an advantage over Roseau. Sure more kids. Does Roseau have an advantage over WBL. Sure, more ice time. Like life, the tournaments (both AA and A) are better with diversity.

diskman · Post by **diskman** » Wed Oct 19, 2005 9:58 am

Maybe everyone who likes diversity could take turns having AHA in their section for a year or two. Let's see what you would think then??

Zamman · Post by **Zamman** » Wed Oct 19, 2005 10:31 am

Once again the topic has been skewed. AHA is not the only school in this state that has had success...... Good point on the Moorhead and Monticello theory. I guess there is no real answer... ________________________________ Academy of Holy Angels 2005 GIRLS STATE CHAMPS! 2002 & 2005 BOYS STATE CHAMPS!! GO STARS!!

diskman · Post by **diskman** » Wed Oct 19, 2005 10:41 am

I don't think the topic is skewed at all. It was started by someone with a connection to EVHS and I think what he/she was trying to say is that it sucks to have to face AHA every year to get out of sections. They are ALWAYS going to be strong. Edina, EP, Jefferson? Sometimes they have a strong team, sometimes they don't. But AHA? ALWAYS strong. Ask anyone from EV or AV for that matter. These teams have to get past AHA every year. And how about the Missota conference? Do you think any of those teams will EVER have a chance at winning their conference? Same goes for sections. I think it would be nice to mix it up a little bit - that's all. Give other schools the "opportunity" to play AHA!

packerboy · Post by **packerboy** » Wed Oct 19, 2005 10:44 am

Having one section for privates isnt going to keep AHA out of the state tournament . The only thing that will keep AHA out of the tournamnet is a big suburban school. This gets old. I am sick of the big suburban schools, some are tired of the privates...and , of course, nobody likes Moorhead and Duluth East is this and that and on and on. Who do we want in the state tournament?

JLS 81 · Post by **JLS 81** » Wed Oct 19, 2005 10:51 am

You are right who do fans want in the tournament for crying out loud? I remember just a few years ago running into a few people down at state who did not want Greenway in the tournament....say what?!? Greenway for Gods sake is like 1100 people counting a few dogs and cats. You are right packerboy no matter who is in there will be people complaining.

elliott70 · Post by **elliott70** » Wed Oct 19, 2005 10:59 am

Well, being from Bemidji and having to go through Moorhead (and when they are down - Roseau) I think I know what I am talking about when you make the topic dominance in Section Hockey. And it is even tougher, originally being from Int'l. Falls. When I was growing up in Int'l. Falls, Section 7 belonged to the Broncos. And let's see, Grand Rapids Indians dominated that section in the mid 70's and into the 80's. And now the GR Thunderhawks have to watch Dultuh East be the favorites every year (and now throw Elk River in the mix). We all have to fight our own battles - whether it is the big suburban programs, the 'teams that recruit', or the private schools. LOSING is not an argument to have a realignment of sections into public and private. I, for one, cannot see a valid argument to discriminate against one section of our hockey 'community'. And I have not and will not be attending a private school, my kids did not attend private schools. 9 times out of 10 I cheer for the public school when they go against 'Daddy's little rich boys'. (smile, I am J/K about the 'Dad...'.) The thread is should privates be in thier own section...

puckhead89 · Post by **puckhead89** » Wed Oct 19, 2005 11:01 am

Hey, I have an idea: No conferences or sections be changed. Let open enrollment remain a valid option for families.....but, let's have coaches and their assistants be required to circulate among the state every 3-4 years to different schools to coach and develop (or un-develop, depending upon the coach) the hockey programs. I bet you would see different programs winning sections and appearing at the state tourney then? <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)"> I KNOW, I KNOW this was an off the wall suggestion, and I am not poking fun at this thread, but my point is this: Coaching has a very large impact on the success of a hockey program, and who returns as contenders year after year and who decides to open enroll where, etc. So, in my opinion, moving sections/conferences around, as is done from time to time, in the long run has no real effect.....or at least has not to date.

diskman · Post by **diskman** » Wed Oct 19, 2005 11:06 am

I, for one, don't care who is in the state tournament. I don't even care if AHA wins it every year! What I would like to see is the section matches mixed up so that the opportunity to go isn't sucked up by the same team in a given section every year. If AHA is going to come out the sections a winner and go to the state tourn. every year, then so be it. But if they came out of a different section every year, then other teams would have the opportunity to win that section once in a while.

puckhead89 · Post by **puckhead89** » Wed Oct 19, 2005 11:11 am

I know diskman, but then AHA will have to lose their coaching staff....that's my point. No matter what section AHA plays in, as long as they have the good coaching they have, they are contenders....no matter where.

carpenter guy · Post by **carpenter guy** » Wed Oct 19, 2005 11:19 am

Coaching is important but the so called top ones have the players. Youth programs are a big part of the success at the high school level. For all we know the "best" coach in the state coaches at a school that averages 1 or 2 wins a year.

diskman · Post by **diskman** » Wed Oct 19, 2005 11:34 am

So you think that if Trebil was forced to coach say...Mayberry, then they would be contenders?? I agree that coaching has a lot to do with it but not THAT much!! No offense Mayberry!

hawkfan70 · Post by **hawkfan70** » Wed Oct 19, 2005 11:38 am

have to agree with you there, a good coach can take you only as far as the talent he has to work with

power92 · Post by **power92** » Wed Oct 19, 2005 11:41 am

SSDD!!!!

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