Private school state tourny

Eagles93 · Post by **Eagles93** » Tue Mar 09, 2004 3:39 pm

I would hope a public school would win almost every year considering there's, what?, 2 private schools in AA?? <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... s/eyes.gif ALT=":rolleyes">

P1D2 · Post by **P1D2** » Tue Mar 09, 2004 3:40 pm

I like the basic concept of combining the two classes into one eventual state champion. You could have a 16 team tournament. In the first round you would place a class "A" team against a class "AA" team and go from there. I don't believe you would add anymore games to the existing structure. First round games would generate sizable crowds. Everybody loves it when the David vs Goliath scenario happens. Ultimatly Minnesota would have one true state champ. Interesting tidbit: I believe Roseau won the last single class tournament.

joe lulic · Post by **joe lulic** » Tue Mar 09, 2004 3:43 pm

dog36, What determines the class? Thats a real sticking pont. Great plan but who goes into A? If its based on enrollment, then AHA and HM are in A. How does your plan give Albert Lea(pick any name) a chance to get to a state tournament?

dog36 · Post by **dog36** » Tue Mar 09, 2004 3:48 pm

Hill won the last single class, in 1991 Roseau won the second to last, in 1990. Interestingly enough, the runners-up both years were Duluth East and Grand Rapids, and I believe both these have enrollments small enough to be A. If not there close.

joe lulic · Post by **joe lulic** » Tue Mar 09, 2004 4:03 pm

But both HM and AHA are A enrollment. See, thats the problem. There isnt the degree of correlation between enrollment and program success in hockey as there is in other sports. Warroad could beat Burnsville in hockey, not in football. We could have a 16 team 2 class tournament but what would the Albert Lea vs Centennial game look like (no offense to AL but these guys beat roseville 9-2).

statebb1522 · Post by **statebb1522** » Tue Mar 09, 2004 4:10 pm

Dog- I don't think that Massachusetts has separate tournaments; a private school (Catholic Memorial) just wins it every year.

dog36 · Post by **dog36** » Tue Mar 09, 2004 4:44 pm

I just wrote it off the top of my head, so I'll just reply in the theoretical manner. Maybe there would be a rule that says if you play in a AA conference, you have to go to a AA section, or teams who have opted up in the past must stay up, or maybe have a private school section (HM, AHA, CDH, STA, DM, SCC, RL, Blake, Breck, BSM, TG). As for helping Albert Lea's chances,it get's them into a situation where all they have to do is win one really tough game. If you can't do even that...YOU DON'T BELONG IN THE STATE TOURNAMENT! Let's face it, winning the new section 1 isn't exactly a heroic feat. But they would still get the section champ trophy and a state participant trophy, but to get to the Minnesota State High School Hockey Tournament - one of the most elite HS sporting events in the country - you should have to be better than mediocre. Getting Albert Lea to that point is not my job. That's the job of the Albert Lea players, HS coaches, youth coaches.

AHAAlum · Post by **AHAAlum** » Tue Mar 09, 2004 7:00 pm

Unbelievable that this issue can't be let go... Bob - Well said. When I came up through my local community's traveling association all I thought about was playing for them once I reached 9th grade. Problem was they automatically assumed that I was going to attend a private HS because I was in a private grade school. As a result I was bounced between the "A" and "B" teams every year. I'd play with the "A" team for all their tournaments and manned the point on the PP and PK. Once the tourney was over I was dropped back down to the "B" team until the next tourney. Any wonder why I chose to attend AHA? Have you ever heard me bash public schools or their so called "feeder programs" as a result of my experience? No, didn't think so. I really hope that my situation was unique, but I doubt it. That program continues to make the decision for its participants due to its lack of organization and leadership. It is a former state champion and strong program. Now they can't even figure out why it has been reduced to obscurity...with no hope of returning to the elite within the next several decades. Actually, Matt Smaby is their most recent recognizable loss. You think they'd figure it out... If you want to list everyones' hometown I say go for it. Just don't ask for their reasons too because it's their personal choice(public or private). Leave 'em be and enjoy the show.

HILLKID88 · Post by **HILLKID88** » Tue Mar 09, 2004 7:44 pm

Just leave it the way it is right now, i mean the only competitors for AA is hill and aha. (not tryin to side with hill, correct me if im wrong) They are the only two teams that are private and have been in the state tournament for about aha-like 5 or 6 yrs, and hill about10 or more years. This AA state tournament is pretty much already a public school tournament, considering there are only 2 private schools that are ever in it

AHAAlum · Post by **AHAAlum** » Tue Mar 09, 2004 7:45 pm

Bob - I did not catch your comment about recruiting before my previous post. I don't think anyone on this board can deny that recruiting has happend in every association, league, community, HS, sport, whatever...At the very least you'll always find a parent that feels they need to take it upon themselves to try to improve their kids' chances of being on a successful team. It isn't always the program doing it. Also, did I mention that I have a cousin from a small community near Rochester that played for a Lake Conference school and actually stayed at the HS coach's house? <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... ns/eek.gif ALT=":eek"> I think you get my point. I'll be cheering on every team this week, big, small, (perceived to be) rich, poor. Don't matter.

hockjock11 · Post by **hockjock11** » Tue Mar 09, 2004 9:40 pm

all the private schools should have to play in AA. the small schools just can't compete with them. 'A' was created so small schools that don't have the talent and numbers have hope to be able to make it to the state tournament. with private schools that can beat most if not all the AA schools in 'A' that takes away from that. the only schools that can compete with the private schools anymore is the AA schools.

P1D2 · Post by **P1D2** » Tue Mar 09, 2004 10:47 pm

I see a couple of options in my scenario of pitting "A" vs "AA" teams against each other in the first round of the state tournament. 1. Simply base it on enrollment. 2. If an "A" school opts up to the "AA" level they will have to qualify through "AA" sectionals. In theory, based on enrollment the HM's and AHA's might opt to qualify through the "A" sectionals but then would be aligned in the first round to play against a "AA' team. It is probable that in most first round games, given the "A" vs "AA" idea, that the "AA" school would prevail. It's just an idea. I miss the old tournaments. The ones where you could root on the small town guys vs the big city boys and I'm from one of the big cities. I'm old enough to remember how everyone fell in love with Henry B. and Warroad vs Ikola's evil Edina team. It seems like that drama is gone.

Huckleberry · Post by **Huckleberry** » Wed Mar 10, 2004 6:49 am

I also think it is probably best to leave things alone. If the MSHSL feels the need for a change, they will probably end up adding another class like they do for every other sport. The hard part with hockey is like Joe said regarding success and enrollment not being tied together as much as it is with other sports.

joe lulic · Post by **joe lulic** » Wed Mar 10, 2004 8:38 am

You guys all make some good points. Someone suggested putting all the privates in AA. Definitley some that are now in A should be in AA but then so should Warroad and St Louis Park(they beat Edina...twice) etc. I think the right suggestion is to place programs in a class based on the strength of their program...Public and Private. You cant lump St Agnes nor SPA with Breck and BSM. I dont think the format of the tournament is as important as the class assignment. Once you get a system in place that makes sense regarding class assignment, the rest will fall into place.

dog36 · Post by **dog36** » Wed Mar 10, 2004 8:49 am

So, St. Bernard's should be playing against Centennial? Minnehaha Academy vs Blm. Jefferson? These would be great match ups wouldn't they? <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... s/eyes.gif ALT=":rolleyes"> Nothing against either of these programs(I saw each and they both had decent teams). But making them play AA is no less rediculous than having Wadena play Holy Angels, or Albert Lea play Hill-Murrey.

bluesbuddy · Post by **bluesbuddy** » Tue Mar 16, 2004 11:56 pm

watt i tell ya oronico flow?! see mah-self's post # 265 above. mah-self told yewz dat da private schoolz wood suck da life wright out uv yewz 'an dey did!! da breck must tangs pounded yewz public enemy's # 1 into da cracks uv da ice!! <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... s/roll.gif ALT=":rollin"> yewz kin callz mah-self 'bluesbuddathiah' if yewz wantz. <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... smokin.gif ALT=":smokin"> catholic huckey playerz are superior!! gist lack slappathiah saith.

minnesotahshockeyfan · Wed Mar 17, 2004 1:04 am

Wow i can't believe this is still being debated. Theres really nothing to debate. Theres no way in hell that private schools should have there own tourny. First of all they don't recruit, and even if they did they are not doing a very good job: only 2 different private schools have claimed the championship since they merged with the public schools. Hill-Murray has claimed 2 and Holy Angels 1. And there are disadvantages that private school hockey teams have, one of the biggest ones being team chemistry. The Centenial kids have been playing together forever and look where it has brought them, wheras a private school wouldn't have that luxery. And hey, if nothing else they give people someone to root against.

HighSchoolHockeyForums.com

Private school state tourny

Re: if i'm not mistaken.

Idea

good ideas but..

idea

Private AA

Re: dog

my plan

Give it up...

just let it be.....

Additional comments

AA only

Idea

mshsl

Class act

private

blews bud a thigh ahh

private v public