Private school state tourny

Huckleberry · Post by **Huckleberry** » Mon Mar 08, 2004 12:05 pm

Although the high school and youth programs are seperate entities, I disagree that they are not tied together. Look at how whenever a new public school opens in the metro area, a new youth hockey association is formed with the same boundries as the school district. In my local association, the varsity coaches are involved with decisions that the hockey board makes. Although I don't consider it a transfer when a kid gets to high school and enrolls in a private school, it definitely is when they enroll in a neighboring school. I understand the many reasons families send their kids to private schools, I just don't know if athletics should be one of them. I don't buy the "exposure" argument. There are so many ways a kid can get noticed by scouts at the next level. It would be great if kids had to play in the district they reside regardless of what high school they attend, but then there are situations where a kid may have a conflict with a certain coach.

joe lulic · Post by **joe lulic** » Mon Mar 08, 2004 12:06 pm

puckster10 I like a man with vision. Especially one who can agitate things a bit. How about this? We go with your vision and add a little hype. The winners of the two separate but equal tournaments would play each other for all the marbles! Hey, I can hear the chants of "daddy's money" echoing thru the X. We'd split the gate and make out like bandits. Ill tell yah, men like us see visions and the rest of the world is wearing bifocals.

puckster10 · Post by **puckster10** » Mon Mar 08, 2004 2:03 pm

Hey it was just an idea. I know it will never happen. Deep down even us public school people have their favorite private schools. For instance I think it would be a shame to see Hill Murray relegated to the other tournament, but I guess it would have to happen. I think it would be a sad thing because of the huge rivalry they have with WBL, and to see it end would be tragic. You have to admit that it would be cool to see Shattuck in a tournament year after year with Holy Angels, Cretin, Hill Murray, Saint Thomas Acadamy, Saint Paul Acadamy, Breck, Blake, Rochester Lourdes, Saint Agnes/St.Bernards, Saint Cloud Cathedral, De La Salle, Totino Grace and the other private schools. Joe- I think the MSHSL would have a say on someone trying to grab receipts from a championship game. Puckster <a href="http://www.wildpuck.com" target="top">www.wildpuck.com</a>

nolookpassguy · Post by **nolookpassguy** » Mon Mar 08, 2004 2:21 pm

Do backers of the Public schools realize that this year's Tourney has 3 teams representing private schools while public schools make up the other 13 teams. Why all the fuss? It would be one thing if the numbers were reversed, but that will never happen. It's not as if private schools are dominating Minnesota high school hockey. More teams out to take a page out of Centennial (beat HM) & Tartan (beat Cretin) and just go out & beat private schools rather than complain about having to play them.

Zamman · Post by **Zamman** » Mon Mar 08, 2004 6:48 pm

Puckster look at what you write, let's put the hometown down for the privates. Why not the same thing for the publics, surprise there are many kids who go to public schools that are transfers. Give this a rest, and stop crying. Did you lose a quality player to a better quality school that also has a good hockey team?

marshallhockeyrules · Post by **marshallhockeyrules** » Mon Mar 08, 2004 7:00 pm

the whole reason you want to reinstate the private school tourney is so the pubs (public schools) can win the state tourney year after year....and you are afraid of the MARSHALL HILLTOPPERS!!!! thats right fear the black and gold your 2005 Class A only unbeaten team 27-0 and STATE CHAMPION!!! THEN IN 2006 WATCH THEM MOVE UP TO CLASS AA AND DESTROY EVERYONE INCLUDING THE HOUNDS OF DULUTH EAST

IJasonI · Post by **IJasonI** » Mon Mar 08, 2004 7:00 pm

Instead of public schools beating all the private schools, you can just put all the best ones into one section so they beat eachother...wait...that's pretty much what 5A is. How about public school supporters stop complaining because only one of the 5A teams gets to go to state (and usually, they have 5 teams in the top 10, counting SLP). That's the tradeoff I guess.

MNPuckster27 · Post by **MNPuckster27** » Mon Mar 08, 2004 7:53 pm

Are you kidding me? I've never heard such a line of garbage. If you wanted to scare someone with that statement you should have made your name "HolyAngelsRules" or "MustangHockeyRules"... No one is afraid of any private school let alone Duluth Marshall for gods sake they couldnt even come out of an average (at best) section. Private Schools arent taking over people they have 3 out of 16 teams playing in state and 2 of them are in class A!! They have won a grand total of.... 1, thats right, 1 AA state championship in about the last 15 years (granted 3 or 4, not sure, class A titles... I highly doubt that the Cougars, Spuds, Trojans, Hounds and the gang are quivering over the thought of having to play AHA at state... Just like I doubt Warroad, SSP, Orono and the class A crew are fearing the Breck Mustangs... Public... Private... Who cares!!

cliff77 · Post by **cliff77** » Mon Mar 08, 2004 8:07 pm

Well, thank you MNPuckster27. I knew this would happen. The public school advocates on this thread, especially MNPuckster27, have articulated the private schools' argument better than we private school advocates ever could have. Go back and read their arguments. They are advocating exactly what we have always said "There deserves to be but one championship, open to all comers, public and private. And...private schools do not represent a threat to public schools' domination of the tournament. History has proved that." LET THE GAMES BEGIN! (Maybe this would be a good time to let this thread fade into the sunset.)

MKMB · Post by **MKMB** » Mon Mar 08, 2004 9:08 pm

It is a bold statement to say that Duluth Marshall will be state champs next year. They are a great team, with some great talent. Are they the best, NO. Duluth Marshall in the years to come will be a team you will see down at state. They have lost in the final championship three out of four years. Just give it time. Duluth Marshall could do good in 7AA. East almost comes out of this section every year, and that could change if Marshall moved up. But when it comes to other AA teams, no they could not compete.

MNPuckster27 · Post by **MNPuckster27** » Mon Mar 08, 2004 9:26 pm

I wouldnt call myself a public school advocate, but i'm glad you agree with me that every school should have equal rights to the state tournament<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... /happy.gif ALT=":D"> Good Luck to all teams private AND public at state... Every team deserves to be there!

scheids316 · Post by **scheids316** » Mon Mar 08, 2004 9:46 pm

This whole thread reminds me of that old Aerosmith song. Which one? DREAM ON Sing for the laughter, sing for the tears. Everyone together now... Scheids (A legend in his girlfriend's mind.)

joe lulic · Post by **joe lulic** » Tue Mar 09, 2004 9:35 am

Does anyone know of any state that segregates public and non public schools at their state championship tournamnets?

Eagles93 · Post by **Eagles93** » Tue Mar 09, 2004 10:30 am

Joe - quite a few do actually. Especially in bigger cities they have public and catholic/private leagues. IMO I think seperating private schools is a terrible idea. The private tourney would eventually turn into the elite tournament and no one would care nearly as much about the public school tourney (outside of the students and fans,etc of each participating school). The private schools are getting better and better as of late and if I'm a kid in 8th grade trying to figure out if I should go to Jefferson or AHA next year, or Hill or WBL, I'm gonna lean towards the tougher competition of private schools. Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub33.ezboard.com/bmnhs.showUser ... 3</A>  <IMG HEIGHT=10 WIDTH=10 SRC="http://www.edenpr.k12.mn.us/ephs/images ... ading2.gif" BORDER=0> at: 3/9/04 10:31 am

joe lulic · Post by **joe lulic** » Tue Mar 09, 2004 11:01 am

I suppose in heavily populated areas it doesnt really matter. If you double or triple the amount of schools, there is enough competition to satisy everyone. Wisconsin includes the non public in their tournaments. I agree. We should avoid making our choices for education based on athletic opportunities. I know that is done now to a degree but IMO it would be worse if we segregated.

dog36 · Post by **dog36** » Tue Mar 09, 2004 11:20 am

I believe Massachussetts has a seperate tourney, and their public school tourney is an absolute joke compared to the private one. If this is what you want, go ahead. But, I prefer to stick with the current system we have. I mean, it is the greatest HS sporting event in America isn't it? Why mess with it? Oh! That's right! This is the "I want everything handed to me (or my kid), even if he didn't earn it" generation. My bad.<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... s/eyes.gif ALT=":rolleyes">

Eagles93 · Post by **Eagles93** » Tue Mar 09, 2004 11:40 am

You're right dog. The t-ball mentality of the MSHSL has ruined every tournament in this state, including hockey. First it was the disaster that was the Tier I and II tourneys. Now we have 2 classes, which still sucks, but is better than Tiers. At least it's not basketball, though - it seems like half the bball teams in the state bring home the 1st place trophy. <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... s/eyes.gif ALT=":rolleyes"> I think the move to 2 tourney's, as well as KMSP taking control of broadcasting has really put the tourney on a decline. Even the newspapers don't care as much anymore. <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... /frown.gif ALT=":(">

Huckleberry · Post by **Huckleberry** » Tue Mar 09, 2004 11:53 am

Although the whole idea of the 2 tier system was flawed, it did continue to put the best teams into one tournament. With the 2-tier tournament, Warroad, SSP and other class A powers would have all been in the tier 1 tournament. The first round of section playoffs would have been much more competitive because the Monticello's and St. Francis' would have been tier 2. The only problem is nobody really cared about who was the 65th best team in the state.

dog36 · Post by **dog36** » Tue Mar 09, 2004 12:38 pm

You're right about the two tiers thing, what a joke. Didn't Rosemount make the state final with a record of 5-20 or something? Remember what George Thole (legendary Stillwater football coach) said abou adding more classes; "Why don't we just give every team a state championship trophy at the beginning of the year, then if the team doesn't think they deserve at the end, they can mail it back."

joe lulic · Post by **joe lulic** » Tue Mar 09, 2004 12:42 pm

I think the last couple of comments point out the problems with having a 2 class system. Is there a good way to do it in hockey? If we go with tier 1 & 2, we have something that draws little interest because of the quality or lack thereof. If we go with an enrollment based system that includes an opt up option, we have 2 non descript classes that confuse even the people who are all in favor of two classes or at least think they are (like me). Maybe its something that just cant be done right in hockey.

Eagles93 · Post by **Eagles93** » Tue Mar 09, 2004 1:57 pm

That was Rosemount's record after the season. I think they were 1-20 or 2-20 going into the playoffs. I don't think their is a fool-proof way of having a tournament(s) either. The Tier idea is rediculous and it doesn't even merit discussion. While I agree there needs to be a more teams involved than 8 in the future if not now, I think they switched too early. There were still only about 140 teams in the early 90s that fielded teams. So filtering that down to 8 didn't seem too bad. Now there are more High Schools and there will be new one's opening all the time. But... I am still against the idea of basing the tourney's participation on enrollment. Here's my idea for a tourney: Have a North Tourney and a South Tourney. Where the border is I don't know - I'd assume it'd be somewhere in the north metro. Have an 8 team tourney for each side of the line. Then the Saturday after both of these tourneys, have a real State Championship. So there is still a lot of pride and 2 teams get a trophy. Being the Southern Minnesota State Champs is better than State Runners-up. This is just my idea and I really haven't thought too much about it logistically. But I think the North and South champs would be celebrated just as much as the AA and A are now, except we still get a true state champ.

joe lulic · Post by **joe lulic** » Tue Mar 09, 2004 2:26 pm

Great idea but the question you will get is " Hey, where does Wadena-Deer Creek fit in?" "How about Hutchinson?" Albert Lea? Nimrod? It seems to me we need to have a tournament that is some kind of hybred to what we have had. Enrollment is a factor but not the only one. History of program success is a factor but maybe not the only one. Some combination of the two might be in order.

Eagles93 · Post by **Eagles93** » Tue Mar 09, 2004 2:51 pm

I would think it would be pretty clear - draw a line and these 80 teams in the North, these 80 in the South. Either way, there (theoretically) wouldn't be a difference if you were in the North or South. This would also cut down on travel for some of the teams.

dog36 · Post by **dog36** » Tue Mar 09, 2004 3:18 pm

What about the way basketball(ugh!) did it a few years ago was great. Two classes, no opt ups. Play down to a section champ in each of the classes. You now have 16 teams. On the Saturday before the state tourney begins have a play-in between teams from different sections. The winners of these are the eight that go to the tourney. Make sure at least two of these games are between A section winners, this will assure at least two, maybe more, small schools will make the tourney each year.

NorthHockey12 · Post by **NorthHockey12** » Tue Mar 09, 2004 3:24 pm

There is only one AA private school this year, and they have to play Centennial in the first round.... Public School's Back to Back Champs :-)

HighSchoolHockeyForums.com

Private school state tourny

Re: Private Schools

double vision

Re: double vision

Re: double vision

Re: double vision

hahaha you public school kids

Re: double vision

MarshallHockeyRules....

Finally, there we have it.

Re: Finally, there we have it.

cliff77...

Some decent ideas, but...

Re: Some decent ideas, but...

Re: Some decent ideas, but...

segregation

seperate tourneys

Re: seperate tourneys

2 Tiers

Eagles93

Re: 2 Tiers

Re: 2 Tiers

Re: 2 Tiers

Re: 2 Tiers

idea

if i'm not mistaken.