What is midgets

TommyG663303
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What is midgets

Post by TommyG663303 » Sat Apr 10, 2004 10:17 am

What is midgets? Does Minnesota have midgets, because I've never heard anything about them? <p></p><i></i>

scheids316
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P.C.

Post by scheids316 » Sat Apr 10, 2004 10:32 am

I believe the preferred term is, "Little People."<br><br><!--EZCODE EMOTICON START ;) --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... s/wink.gif ALT=";)"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <p></p><i></i>

TommyG663303
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Re: What is midgets

Post by TommyG663303 » Sat Apr 10, 2004 12:09 pm

I'm talking about midgets the age level/hockey league/whatever it is. <p></p><i></i>

scheids316
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Re: What is midgets

Post by scheids316 » Sat Apr 10, 2004 12:11 pm

Yeah, I was just bored and felt the need to make a bad joke. <p>Scheids<br>(A legend in his girlfriend's mind.)</p><i></i>

petey1321
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Re: What is midgets

Post by petey1321 » Sat Apr 10, 2004 4:13 pm

Since nobody has chimed in yet, midgets is the level after bantams, though Minnesota only has two midget teams officially recognized by USA Hockey (I believe), Shattuck's U-17 (Prep) and U-16 teams. I guess you could consider the Junior Gold A and B levels a form of midgets, but I don't believe that's recognized by USA Hockey, and minnesotahockey.org says that Minnesota Hockey (MAHA) no longer classifies teams under the midget category.<br><br>From what I can gather, we're really the only state that doesn't have any sort of midget leagues, even including Wisconsin, who has teams like the Madison Capitals and Team Wisconsin (a before and after team of HS players that won the title a couple years ago). The level of play at the very top is generally better than Minnesota HS hockey, but not by much, and most of the teams that don't make it to nationals would get smoked by a top 10 or 20 HS team. But, when you consider that a team like Holy Angels got pummeled by Shattuck and that Shattuck didn't even win the nationals, certainly those top end teams must be awfully good. Given the way that the HS Elite teams have generally been able to skate with Shattuck, I think if we actually decided to throw together a few midget teams, they'd do quite well. <p></p><i></i>

elliott70
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Re: What is midgets

Post by elliott70 » Sat Apr 10, 2004 4:16 pm

MIDGETS is the next progression after bantams within the structure of USA Hockey.<br>In Minnesota, that step is usually JV or varsity hockey.<br>Minnesota Hcckey has an off-shoot of midget called junior gold but that classification allows for older high school kids (compared to midgets).<br>In the past midget hockey wsa pretty big in Minnesota with a lot of 9th & 10th graders playing.<br>Edina, Duluth, Int'l. Falls had strong teams in the 60's and competed very well at the national level.<br>Now MH has 16 & Under and jr gold with most of the rest of the country (those states without strong high school programs) and Canada having midget programs. Frommidgets you progress to juniors.<br> <p></p><i></i>

TommyG663303
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Re: What is midgets

Post by TommyG663303 » Sat Apr 10, 2004 6:27 pm

Wow you were all just extremely helpful, more than I thought you would. Thank you very much for the info, I am now enlightened. So I'm wondering would there be no way for a junior gold team or U16 team to compete with midgets? I also kinda find it odd that Minnesota the state of hockey barely has any midget teams. <p></p><i></i>

upucker
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midgets

Post by upucker » Sun Apr 11, 2004 9:12 am

We used to have midget hockey but it has changed names to 16 and under boys, Junior gold would be the next level after 16 & under. The reason it does not thrive in Minnesota is because our High School program is so strong much stronger than any other state. Also the age class for minnkota hockey was left the way it was cut off date being July 1st so we would not be having kids play midget hockey. <br><br>When you get 1500 to 2000 fans to watch a high school game and maybe 50-100 to watch 16 & under or Jr. gold why would you want to play. Most kids that play Jr. gold are drunken idiots or pot heads that don't respect authority or just plain don't have the skill to move on to high school <p></p><i></i>

TommyG663303
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Re: What is midgets

Post by TommyG663303 » Sun Apr 11, 2004 10:20 am

So could a U16 team actually compete in a midget tournament? I also remember a bunch of kids from hockey camp who were out of state. Actually most of them were out of state. They all told me that they had just changed the dates for bantams,peewees, and squirts so instead of having it how it is now. Bantams are eigth and seventh, Peewees are fifth and sixth, and Squirts are third and fourth. The hockey camp I went to was St. Marys University in Winona if anyone was wondering why there were so many out of state kids. <p></p><i></i>

petey1321
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Re: What is midgets

Post by petey1321 » Sun Apr 11, 2004 10:38 am

The way that USA Hockey does the age groups now is that you are organized by year of birth. Minnesota Hockey, owing to the fact that almost everybody who plays youth hockey is trying to end up playing high school hockey, decided not to make this switch. That's why kids from out of state have different ages for different levels. I personally see no reason why we couldn't start organizing kids by birth year when they are mites (so that the kids who are currently playing don't have to suddenly switch age levels) and keep those age groupings as they grow up. That way, Minnesota teams could still play in tournaments like the Silver Stick and Nationals, which currently they cannot. <p></p><i></i>

oldshad
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Re: What is midgets

Post by oldshad » Sun Apr 11, 2004 10:42 am

Tommy: I don't think you get it. USA Hockey categories are based upon age (using a December 31st/January 1st cutoff except that there is an additional 6 months of Midget 17 and under), not around school grades (like 8th, 7th, etc.)<br><br>For the 2003/2004 season the oldest birthyear for the different categories were:<br><br>1995 Mite (8 and under)<br>1993 Squirt (10 and under)<br>1991 Peewee (12 and under)<br>1989 Bantam (14 and under)<br>1987 Midget (16 and under)<br>1986 plus July 1/1985 through December 31, 1985) Midget (17 and under)<br><br>You can look all of this up at www.usahockey.com<br><br>But there are often wide age ranges within school grades, due to kids starting school late or what have you. For example, there are many seniors who are too old to play midget (17 and under).<br><br>MAHA uses a different age cutoff date than the rest of USA Hockey.<br><br>To have Minnesota teams compete in USA Hockey categories they would need to assure that they meet all of the requirements set by USA Hockey, MAHA, and the MSHSHL.<br><br> <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub33.ezboard.com/bmnhs.showUser ... oldshad</A> at: 4/11/04 10:43 am<br></i>

TommyG663303
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Re: What is midgets

Post by TommyG663303 » Sun Apr 11, 2004 12:09 pm

Well ya I know how it is done with age level and not grade level, but many people that I know commonly refer to it like that even though there are a few people in an older grade, but in the same age level. Like this year on my Bantam team I had two sophmores and a seventh grader on it. <p></p><i></i>

Pucknutz69
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MIDGETS

Post by Pucknutz69 » Sun Apr 11, 2004 1:14 pm

The other side of this is the rest of the country does not have the structured level of high school hockey like we do. They play "Club Hockey" anyone can play anywhere as long as you make the team and pay your bills. Some of the Major Midget 86-87 birth year/Minor Midget 88 birth year in Michigan you are playing for well sponsered teams such as Little Ceasers and Marquette Electricians. I suggest you look at these websites for more info.<br>www.midamericahockey.com<br>www.mwehl.com<br>This is the kind of hockey I think we will be seeing more of here with the development of the AAA teams. The Blades, Rockets, the new Icemen and a few others are at this level already. The Fire program out of Somerset has had teams in Mid America for a couple of years but has had some growing pains and has failed to get the best players at the AAA level to really take control. <br><br> I guess you could look at it like we look at Private schools. Some of the best players leave thier hometown and go private. That's what these teams are the best players at many levels. It would be scary to see how much better Minnesota hockey would be if you had the best players practicing and playing together. Like the Elite league all year long. <p></p><i></i>

TommyG663303
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Re: What is midgets

Post by TommyG663303 » Sun Apr 11, 2004 1:30 pm

So pretty much MAHA runs its hockey programs different than the entire country so that a separate program (mshsl) is stronger. <p></p><i></i>

oldshad
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Re: What is midgets

Post by oldshad » Mon Apr 12, 2004 11:21 am

It's hard to say why MSHSL and MAHA do what they do.<br><br>Almost all of New England (and some parts of Wisconsin and Alaska) runs their midget programs as "before and after" teams.<br><br>That is to say that there is a season for these teams both BEFORE the high school season (like the elite league played) and also AFTER the high school season.<br><br>In this way the high school programs are not adversely affected (and perhaps even helped) by their players playing midget hockey. <p></p><i></i>

packerboy
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midgets

Post by packerboy » Mon Apr 12, 2004 3:16 pm

Yeah but.... do those states that have befor and after leagues also have 25 game high school seasons before playoffs start? Before and after would not be baseball nor football friendly in MN. <p></p><i></i>

goldy313
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Re: What is midgets

Post by goldy313 » Mon Apr 12, 2004 6:35 pm

In Minnesota though you still have to fall into a certain age group no matter what acedemic year you are in. All kids on your Bantam team were in that group, no matter what grade they were in. Hockey in Minnesota still requires a birth certificate to assign your level, i.e. Mites, Squirts, Peewees, etc., although we use a different cutoff date than USA hockey does for those levels. That is why you don't see 19 year old high school juniors in hockey like you can in football, basketball, or most any other sport. There is no advantage to holding a kid back for athletic reasons in hockey without a midget program here. <br><br>Winona gets so many out of state kids at their camp due to their location; the proximity to places like Madison, Chicago, etc. really help. It's right off I-90 instead of up in Brainard or Deer River or some places like that. They run a good program there too, that helps. <p></p><i></i>

oldshad
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Re: midgets

Post by oldshad » Mon Apr 12, 2004 6:36 pm

I don't know about all of them. But for Division 1 Prep school hockey in Massachusetts, they do play a 25 game season before the playoffs.<br><br>Not baseball or football friendly? I certainly don't think that anyone should be "forced" to give up football or baseball to play midget hockey on a before/after team; likewise, if someone preferred to play midget hockey on a before/after team rather than play football or baseball, I don't see why he should not have the option <p></p><i></i>

Larch15
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Midgets v. Jr. Gold

Post by Larch15 » Tue Apr 13, 2004 8:22 am

Growing up in Minnesota and now living in two other states, I've decided that Minnesota Hockey has a lot of power and is able to do just about anything they want within reason, the age thing isn't the only thing that they don't change as per USA Hockey recommendations.<br><br>Jr. Gold is strictly a MinnKota region thing, as both North and South Dakota call their teams this as well, but it did start in MN. Why they do this, I don't really know, but they are the same things as Midgets, and can and do play in the same tourneys. I coached Midgets in Billings, MT for a couple of years, and we played in Junior Gold tourneys in North Dakota, and had North and South Dakota teams play in our tourneys. Midget teams aren't restricted to a set amount of game numbers. Also, Midget teams can and do play against Traditional High School teams, it doesn't happen often, and usually only in tourneys. Also, MSHSL doesn't restrict the age thing, as long as you are in High School, you can play on the team, although I know there is an age limit for High School, but you can have a 19 yr. old Junior on the High School team. <p></p><i></i>

packerboy
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follow the yellow brick road

Post by packerboy » Tue Apr 13, 2004 8:41 am

<br>The problem with giving them the "option" is that we will continue to erode the idea that kids should play other sports. If there was an organized before and after league I think there would be a lot of pressure for kids to participate. The "option" would become "gotta do it to keep up" real fast. We have enough of that all ready.<br><br>As far as MN Hockey and the age thing, I agree with their position and would encourage them to go to Sept 1 or what ever the school cuttoff is. So long as the top of the pyriamid is high school hockey, we should not adopt the calender year appraoch. It splits classrooms right down the middle and makes no sense. There is no good reason to do it that way other than to conform to an appraoch that is not appropriate to MN. <br><br><br><br><br> <p></p><i></i>

TommyG663303
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Re: What is midgets

Post by TommyG663303 » Thu Apr 15, 2004 1:38 pm

You guys have all been a lot of help. I was thinking that midgets can be a before and after thing, because I was reading in American Hockey magazine and it was talking about a midgets team from Maine and it said they played Midgets in the fall, High school in the winter, then Midgets again in the spring. I also think that Minnesota shouldn't do the before and after midgets thing, because as someone who does play football and baseball I would not want to have to choose. <p></p><i></i>

LloydBraun
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upucker

Post by LloydBraun » Thu Apr 15, 2004 9:13 pm

why are u hating on junior gold, yea it is kids who arent good enough to play varsity level but alot of it also are kids who have played varsity and just do not like the program and play there, pot heads and drunks come on now <p></p><i></i>

upucker
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Why

Post by upucker » Thu Apr 15, 2004 11:31 pm

Why I hate Jr Gold. The team in Albert Lea which is my association cost our program over $7000.00 last year, they do no fund raising they pay 100.00 per player thats a crime in itself. Not all these kids are into drugs or booze but a good share of them are. I know some don't have the skill or the desire to play High School and just want the recreation but it shouldn't effect the younger kids program. Last year one of the Jr. Gold coaches in our program threw a keg party for the players at the end of the year, thats a accident waiting to happen. We don't cut kids at the High School level so most of the kids on this Jr. Gold team either can't play because of grades or eligibility a few have jobs but most are trouble. <p></p><i></i>

TommyG663303
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Re: Why

Post by TommyG663303 » Fri Apr 16, 2004 8:56 pm

Ya in WBL most of the kids who are gonna end up in JR. Gold aren't exactly the most drug free kids in the world though those kids usually end up on U16 their first year and maybe Junior B the next two years if they actually have some skill. Then I don't know any that have any type of chance at A. So pretty much most High School players stay away from the drugs and do their school work. While most of these JR. Gold players are these "trouble makers." Or so I hear... <br>*note somewhat of an uneducated reply <p></p><i></i>

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