Let's ban high school sports altogether

falcons30 · Post by **falcons30** » Tue Mar 08, 2005 11:32 pm

Thought I'd get everyone's attention.<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... /laugh.gif ALT=":lol"> Was just looking at startrib site and came upon this article. <a href="http://www.startribune.com/stories/587/5281436.html" target="top">www.startribune.com/stories/587/5281436 ...  Lee, you can move this elsewhere if you wish, but I'm sure it will create a good debate for awhile.

Post by **east hockey** » Tue Mar 08, 2005 11:39 pm

Falcons, thanks for posting this link. I'd received it from someone a couple of weeks ago who thought it'd be a good topic for conversation (sorry to the guy who sent it, I flat-out spaced out on it). I think this should open up everybody's eyes. (yeah Mark, I'm still awake...had a nap today and was listening to some Morrissey before I hit the rack) Lee ____________ Message Board arsonist since 2005

MNPuckster27 · Post by **MNPuckster27** » Tue Mar 08, 2005 11:41 pm

I suppose this is what the private school haters and one class state tournament supporters want??? There you go fellas (and ladies) this is what you would get. Everyone plays in their neighborhood and gets equal playing time, just like a club team. It would ruin what MN hockey is all about. Edited by: <A HREF=http://p074.ezboard.com/bmnhs.showUserP ... kster27</A> at: 3/8/05 11:43 pm

elliott70 · Post by **elliott70** » Tue Mar 08, 2005 11:44 pm

Lee I'm working but had enough 16 hrs - 2 in a row preceded by..... Good night

2AhockeyOldTimer · Post by **2AhockeyOldTimer** » Tue Mar 08, 2005 11:50 pm

wow, thats wak.

birdmister · Post by **birdmister** » Wed Mar 09, 2005 1:24 am

WHAT! This isn't Canada! Moorhead sets a new state tournament record!

Warroad11 · Post by **Warroad11** » Wed Mar 09, 2005 8:36 am

This has to be the craziest thing I ever heard, Takeing the chance for kids to play sports for there town and the pride of it is completely nuts! We in Warroad know money issues as well as anyone in school and sports but there is always a way. The fact is you pass this bill and it will hurt all the kids, arts, sports, ect is all apart of a well rounded education. Some people have way to much time on there hands to think up stupid things like this

gferhock1 · Post by **gferhock1** » Wed Mar 09, 2005 8:50 am

first of all, schools dont consider it athletics director, it activities director, so are they going to drop band, choir and theatre? I think these peoples kids didnt make the so called elite teams and they're just mad about it. At least thats the response I've heard at the youth level when they dont make it. My kids ran like crazy to get from one sport to another 11 months out of the year. They came home tired, all are/were on at least the B honor roll, 2 on the A with honors and went to bed so damn tired each night they didnt have time to get in trouble. It caused my wife and I to adjust our lifestyles because thats why we had these kids. Parents better wake up and pay attention! Fight for whats right and keep these idiots from ruining it for the majority. Who's next on the soap box?

andyrok · Post by **andyrok** » Wed Mar 09, 2005 8:56 am

I work up at the Capitol building and from everything I've heard from legislators, this bill has virtually no chance of passing. I think the reason it was introduced is that the schools and school districts pay for high school sports, and with all the budget cutting going on, I guess they figured that it wouldn't be a big deal to cut sports programs. They were of the "better that than cutting teachers" ilk. But like I said before: it will not pass. Edited by: <A HREF=http://p074.ezboard.com/bmnhs.showUserP ... andyrok</A> at: 3/9/05 8:58 am

Hammerhead · Post by **Hammerhead** » Wed Mar 09, 2005 9:15 am

Gferhock1 KUDOS TO YOU!!!! YOU HIT THE NAIL ON THE HEAD! HAMMER!!

packerboy · Post by **packerboy** » Wed Mar 09, 2005 9:16 am

I am surprised at the reaction that I am reading. I think it a good idea. Except for the fact that it has been ingrained in us and has become part of our culture, why do we have high school sports? Why do we run sports for kids in the communities and then turn them over to the high schools at age 15? Why not just extend youth community sports into "the high school years'. We have always done it in baseball. Youth, Legion and VFW ball are more developmental than school ball which is over by the time it gets warm out. We dont need the high schools nor the MSHSL to run sports, do we? As far as cost, Is anyone playing for free? I think most high school hockey programs are $275 or so these days. What would be wrong with the communities doing hockey. We are capale of doing it through Bantams but not high school? Why?

gferhock1 · Post by **gferhock1** » Wed Mar 09, 2005 9:26 am

You can make a good argument about what you just said, but what you dont get is the traddition and school spirit that goes along with HS sports. I for one believe that midget hockey works in some states, but they still have HS hockey, its just more along the lines of a very good JV program. So you dont get rid of it completely. Everyone should also look at their school budget and what you'll see is that the entire budget for all "activities" is somewhere between 1% -3% of the entire school budget. If they want to cut costs, then they should cut all the high paid administrators out. Remember when we went to school? We had one principal and one assistant at HS and 2 guidance counselors, 2-3 secretaries and that was it. We had more janitors than administrators. I told our school board this winter, you want to make these cuts to save money..... then you'll pay for it with added police protection.

BELOW 0 ZERO · Post by **BELOW 0 ZERO** » Wed Mar 09, 2005 9:30 am

instead of holy angels it would become RICHFIELD. instead of centennial it would become CIRCLE PINES. instead of totino grace it would become FRIDLEY. instead of breck it would become GOLDEN VALLEY. all would become community names. no more school names. no more pep rally's in the gym. no more school spirit. no more homecomings. yah packerboy, a brilliant idea <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... ohwell.gif ALT=":\"> <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... rassed.gif ALT=":o">

hockeydad · Post by **hockeydad** » Wed Mar 09, 2005 9:32 am

Quote ____________ As far as cost, Is anyone playing for free? I think most high school hockey programs are $275 or so these days. ____________ That's a far cry from what the actual cost is. You'd be paying for a community-based program. I think bantams cost twice that in our town, on top of volunteer commitments, fundraising requirements, transportation etc. etc. etc. The programs are usually funded in part by the school.

packerboy · Post by **packerboy** » Wed Mar 09, 2005 9:37 am

I guess the reason Id like to see it explored is because I dont like the idea of athletics for kids of this age being a political football. Its so important for kids to continue to be involved in something during these years. But for a long time now these knuckleheads threaten to cut sports and other good extra curricular activities everytime we turn around. If we continue with them in the communities we dont have to deal with that crap. Parents pay, we fund raise to cut costs and to provide scholarships for those that cant afford it and forget all the nonsense. As far as tradition and stuff goes, what would really change? It would still be Edina vs Bloomington and Warroad vs Roseau. Its not like the schools have all stayed the same through out the years.

gferhock1 · Post by **gferhock1** » Wed Mar 09, 2005 9:47 am

Tradition and school spirit would get flushed away. Dont believe me then go to the state jr gold A games and see how many people attend, or go to the jr gold select/allstar game wednesday 3/16 7:30pm at braemar cost is $2 to get in. Count how many fans we have to support this level of play,hardly none. Did anyone go watch their HS jr gold A, B or 16u teams play in regions or league playoffs? I'll bet none. Was the pep band there to play? Was any of the school teachers or administrators there? I'll bet none. Oh, I get ticked off at how MSHSL has run things, how they've turned the sport into a money only maker that supports the other lossing programs, but getting rid of activities will not fix the budget. Has anyone ever seen a tax reduction? Yes, competition would make things better, maybe a midget program will help, I would like to see a program develop only if it was done properly. But getting rid of everything is not the answer.

packerboy · Post by **packerboy** » Wed Mar 09, 2005 9:48 am

I think we paid $650 for bantams this year. Sure, it would be more if the school district didnt subsidize but how long will that continue anyway? The user fees continue to rise due to politics. If we pay half now, how long will it be until its 75% or 100%? BTW, I am not an anti user fee person so long as those that cant afford it are taken care of . Maybe the extra cost would be worth getting out from under the politics.

slapshooter · Post by **slapshooter** » Wed Mar 09, 2005 9:52 am

What are you, NUTS ? <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... /laugh.gif ALT=":lol"> S<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... s/nerd.gif ALT="8o"> S

ranger62 · Post by **ranger62** » Wed Mar 09, 2005 9:55 am

I'm not surprised at the reaction I see hear. It's an emotional issue. I think the topic deserves some discussion however. This could be a bad idea but it's not immediately obvious to me that it's a stupid thing. The point of the bill is to encourage MORE participation for students through intramural programs and to take the upper tier of competition outside of the school. This is essentially a reversal of what exists today where the less skilled hockey players can play in community-based organizations like Midgets. Baseball has similar programs with Legion ball. AAU programs are available for Basketball. Some of the "secondary sports" like wrestling and track/field might have some issues with this. The question is how much money would be saved by focusing on intramural sports and how much would participation increase? As far as school spirit and tradition are concerned, they come with a price. If communities are willing to pass levies to take more of the burden of HS sports off the school districts then tradition and school spirit can be maintained. Another question to ask is how dire is the situation today? The posted article implied typical budgets for sports programs are about 1% of the total school budget. Is that reallly a crisis? It's an interesting topic and worth discussion.

packerboy · Post by **packerboy** » Wed Mar 09, 2005 9:59 am

gferhock1, No one is suggesting we do away with anything. Just change the structure "a little bit." Consider the possibility that it could be better. No more open enrollment or private school issues. We wouldnt have to deal with the MSHSL. We could start earlier and end later. Play more games. People on this thread have debated ways to keep kids here instead of the USHL. Could this be a way? We would still have a state tournament that would draw tremendous interest. We could keep the profits for hockey and make it very affordable. Most old traditions would be preserved and new ones begun. I dont have it all figured out or anything but I am not ready to dismiss it out of hand.

gferhock1 · Post by **gferhock1** » Wed Mar 09, 2005 10:06 am

Why is it in hockey "we" always have to make sure everyone gets to play even if they cant afford it. Now I'm not against having a booster/blue line club that helps people out, but too many times people take advantage of that. Why does everyone have to have the same someone else? Liberals want everyone to be equal. The constititution says we are created equal and therefore should be treated that way. But no way does it mean that everyone be "given" something because they cant afford it. Then I should get a new cadilac because I want one but can only afford a chevrolet, I want a government program to subsidize my new car purchase. I couldnt do many things as a kid because my parents couldnt afford it all. I could only do so much and that was it. They didnt ask the local hockey association to allow me to play traveling hockey because they couldnt afford it, I had to play rec level because it was cheaper. Now I made this statement into a political one, sorry but I cant stand the mentality of packerboy and those like him. Packerboy, do you really believe what you said or are you just pulling a stunt here?

minndonn · Post by **minndonn** » Wed Mar 09, 2005 10:27 am

HS hockey for my son will cost between 600 and 800 depending on the final cost to our school for co-opting with another. Transportation is a significant part but not the largest. All the other sports will charge 35.00 I think. gymnastics which is also co-opted will cost more also. I think the bill is there to spur debate on the issues, not intended to pass. When schools combine or merge i.e. two White Bear Lake schools, the number of kids participating in all extra curricular is reduced by percentages. while combining reduces the costs to the district it also means many more students can not participate as before. Which is better, a small school where nearly 1/2 of all students participate in athletics or a large school where few do. Maybe the discussion should be on how to make extra curricular available to many more students.

packerboy · Post by **packerboy** » Wed Mar 09, 2005 10:35 am

gferhock1, First, I dont post stuff just to be outrageous or a "troublemaker'. Second, All I am suggesting is that sports might be better off if they werent controlled bythe political hacks who threaten to cut them at every budget meeting. Thats hardly a liberal approach. Its the liberals and socilaists that want everything controlled by and paid for by government. As far as helping out kids who cant afford it....even a right wing facist such as myself has to support that. PS Any one who opposes this should go to a school board meeting and listen to them talk about extra curricular activities like they were a plague on our society. Or you know what? Just go to a school board meeting Edited by: <A HREF=http://p074.ezboard.com/bmnhs.showUserP ... ckerboy</A> at: 3/9/05 10:49 am

gferhock1 · Post by **gferhock1** » Wed Mar 09, 2005 11:10 am

Packerboy, maybe I missunderstood your point, I am also to the right of center on issues. I want competition for the MSHSL for every activity or sport we can have. But I thought it was your idea/comments to do away with sports in HS. If I am wrong by that I apologize. Yes we could run a beter program outside of our local HS, but only part of that program would see improvements. There are politics at all levels, I just dont see how it would be any better. I go to school board meetings, not enough of them but a few each year. I propose that everyone on this board go to 3 school board meetings between now and next October, then see what we learned. What ideas wil we have to make it better.

hockeydad · Post by **hockeydad** » Wed Mar 09, 2005 11:23 am

For those who don't want high school sports to be dragged into politics, and would prefer community based groups, wake up. The politics would be everywhere, not matter what group. What hockey association doesn't have a faction that generally runs things, whether good or bad. There's politics involved no matter what group runs things. What I preferred in high school as opposed to youth hockey is that usually, the kids who deserve a chance to play get the chance, no matter who their parents are or how much time or money their parents put into the association..

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Let's ban high school sports altogether

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