Class A = B Bantam

Neutron 14
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Class A = B Bantam

Post by Neutron 14 » Thu Mar 10, 2005 11:53 am

Lets say a B Bantam team won the MAHA state tournament and their association didn't field an A team. How much respect should we give them? <br><br>Now lets say they went undefeated. Can they call themselves the best? Even if they beat a few A teams?<br><br>Thats exactly how I feel about private A schools and Warroad. <p></p><i></i>

Newguy99
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Re: Class A = B Bantam

Post by Newguy99 » Thu Mar 10, 2005 11:57 am

Wow your smart. Oshie, Hardwick and co. are at a B level, gimme a break. They wil have at least 3 kids go D1. Cmon man think before you write. Im Out! <p></p><i></i>

Neutron 14
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Re: Class A = B Bantam

Post by Neutron 14 » Thu Mar 10, 2005 12:00 pm

Many B teams have great players. I mean absolutely no disrespect to their players. They are some of the best in the state, no doubt. <p></p><i></i>

Kodiak
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So...

Post by Kodiak » Thu Mar 10, 2005 12:02 pm

what are you trying to say? <p></p><i></i>

RLStars
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Location: State of Hockey

Re: So...

Post by RLStars » Thu Mar 10, 2005 12:11 pm

I think he's trying to say that if an association fields a B team and does not have an A team, then the B team will have a large number of A caliber players playing against other teams mostly true B players. Yes, there are plenty of good B players out there, so I'm not knocking them at all. Our Peewee team this year was a B team, no A team. We had about 13 (not sure on the number off the top of my head) players with about 4-5 quality A players, 4-5 quality B players and the rest strong C players. We would never have been able to compete at A so we fielded a B. As it turns out, we had a very successful team at B.<br><br>Not sure about the comparison at High School though. <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p074.ezboard.com/bmnhs.showUserP ... RLStars</A> at: 3/10/05 12:36 pm<br></i>

Newguy99
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Re: So...

Post by Newguy99 » Thu Mar 10, 2005 12:16 pm

Ahhhhhhhhhhhh..... <p></p><i></i>

Kodiak
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Different

Post by Kodiak » Thu Mar 10, 2005 12:23 pm

That doesn't apply to High School... it goes by school size, not how many hockey players are out there. I'm sure the St. Paul and Minneapolis schools would love to play class A, but they can't. Ya'll'er comparing apples to oranges here. <p></p><i></i>

gunslinger
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Re: Different

Post by gunslinger » Thu Mar 10, 2005 12:27 pm

Ask Slappy the Great on this one..... <br><br>Im sure that if he had it his way, he would just combine Moorhead and Warroad and Make the new team "<!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>The Warhead Waruds</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END-->........." And call them AMERICAS TEAM!<br><br>-The SLinger<br><br>This topic is sad.... Why do we contiune to compare... god just move on! <p></p><i></i>

Newguy99
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Re: Different

Post by Newguy99 » Thu Mar 10, 2005 12:33 pm

Agreed slinger. Why even try to compare this, you cant! <p></p><i></i>

Sabreman86
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Re: Different

Post by Sabreman86 » Thu Mar 10, 2005 12:34 pm

You are a very ignorant person to think that. Anyone who has been watching the scores over the past few years would know that the gap between AA and A is narrowing. <p></p><i></i>

gunslinger
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Re: Different

Post by gunslinger » Thu Mar 10, 2005 12:39 pm

I hope your not calling me ignorant son! Listen... I watched the state tourny, I was at almost every game... A and AA... Let me tell you... if A is catching up... well then AA has really dropped.... 4 shcools could compete... the rest... not!<br><br>Hmmmmmmmm I was at the A consolation finals of LF and AL...<br>hmmmmmmmmmm 9-1... My god it could have been 15-1.... <br><br>Consolation for Double A... hmmmm BJ and WBL 5-4 ot.... I mean come on! <br><br><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>PLEASE DONT SAY THE GAP IS CLOSING</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END-->.... The top few teams could compete and a consitant level, but not consitantly year in and out! Thats the difference... The A teams better enjoy the top while they can... it usually doesnt last... hell and if it does.. then move up and prove your worth!<br><br>-The Slinger <p></p><i></i>

pse44
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A vs AA

Post by pse44 » Thu Mar 10, 2005 12:42 pm

This topic makes me so, well i'm not sure how it makes me feel. I would guess most of you out there putting down class "A" schools are the same people who are complaining in October that the Big market teams like the Yankees and the Red sox are always in the big show. Well why are they always in the big show. Because of money they have money to spend on players that the small markets don't have. It is not an even playing field. Just like it is not an even playing field with a school with 1,500 students to play a school with 270 enrollment. All real hockey fan would appreciate what a small school can accomplish against a big school they have alot talent from a small pool to pick from. Bottom line is the more kids to pick from the better a team should be so all you big school lovers out there should look and say why isn't our program better than a small school and we all know that there are alot of big school programs out there that wouln't even compete with some of the teams from the northwest corner of the state. Huh Maybe we should be asking you if you want to come to our section and be a 4 or 5 seed come section time wouldn't that be embarassing for you and your program. <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p074.ezboard.com/bmnhs.showUserP ... 4>pse44</A> at: 3/10/05 12:43 pm<br></i>

Sabreman86
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Re: Different

Post by Sabreman86 » Thu Mar 10, 2005 12:48 pm

I was talking to the person who started this thread and his terrible analogy.<br><br>I do believe that there is still some gap. This is obvious when you look at the deeper into the sections. I think that the problem with single A is that there needs to be a more even distribution of talent throughout the sections. I agree, LF is not a good hockey team. They should not have been there. There are four teams in 5A that could be competitive in AA. If you spread them out into some of the weaker sections (like LF's 4A) you will get a much better single A state tournament. <p></p><i></i>

MNPuckster27
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Re: Different

Post by MNPuckster27 » Thu Mar 10, 2005 12:54 pm

Sabreman-<br><br>So what do you want? Benilde up to section 7A? Blake up to 4A? Maybe move Breck down to 1A? What?<br><br>Beat your neighbor/rival, go to state, thats what its all about. <p></p><i></i>

Sabreman86
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Re: Different

Post by Sabreman86 » Thu Mar 10, 2005 1:02 pm

Something like that but not nearly as drastic. If you were to even move SCC and some of the other St. Cloud Area Schools to 4A (I think that they have started to do that for next year), you would get a pretty decent team out of that section. They could probably move a couple of the teams from 5A to the section that Shakopee came out of, because they were really a dissapointment to watch (still trying to keep it geographicially convenient). If some acts like this were done, people would realize that class A does have some good hockey, and they would have much better tourneys. <p></p><i></i>

MNPuckster27
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A Sections

Post by MNPuckster27 » Thu Mar 10, 2005 1:07 pm

I do agree that the St. Cloud area schools should be in 4A definately. <br><br>As for 5A, it is something we are going to need to deal with because most of those schools can make no geographical case for switching. Mahtomedi should really be back in 3A, and if the MSHSL <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>REALLY</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--></em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> wanted to split them up, they could stretch Breck back into 6A where they were years ago. Thats about it.<br><br>Keep in mind Orono was ranked 7 or 8 in the state when Shakopee beat them. Orono wouldnt have been a disappointment like Shakopee was at state. BUT, Shakopee beat them, and deserved to be there, thats why we play section games. <p></p><i></i>

tooold2tell
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Re: Class A = B Bantam

Post by tooold2tell » Thu Mar 10, 2005 1:17 pm

Would solve the problem, but will not be done...... too bad! Slinger, I'm with you, Slappy's antics are old. And Warroad would not have won the AA tournament!<br><br>Here it is: Private schools, will go back to having their own State Tournament. No T.V. coverage, because of lack of interest.<br><br>AA Schools- 16 team State Tourney at the Excel Energy in St. Paul. Wed-Saturday, with T.V. all 4 days.<br><br>A Schools- 8 Team field at Ridder Arena, on the Campus of the U of M., Thursday- Saturday, with only the finals to be Televised.<br><br>Might we then see the open enrollment to private schools lessen? Might we see more teams wanting to opt up, and play in the real Tournament? <br><br>We have ruined the Greatest High School Event in the United States, and until we get the Grey Hairs with MSHL ousted from their chairs, we will continue to have silly discussions like this, with the SLAPHEAD From the west coast of Minnesota.<br><br>I love those Roseau Rams, talk about a city with integrity and pride to play at the top level, and they sure have turned their program around. <p></p><i></i>

RochHockeyDad
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Re: A Sections

Post by RochHockeyDad » Thu Mar 10, 2005 1:22 pm

Neutron 14<br><br>Your analogy using Bantam B (youth hockey) comparing them with A (high school) is just brilliant. <br><br>Certainly all A high school hockey programs are weaker than AA. And let's not limit this to just hockey...I know lots of "lower level" high school football, soccer, basketball teams that would never compete with the higher level programs. They are inferior and actually afraid to do so.<br><br>Seriously, many A teams lack the depth of talent that AA do but that is it. It's what you do with your talent. It's also allowing some kids the ability to participate when they may not be able to just due to the numbers and talent level.<br><br> <p></p><i></i>

Neutron 14
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Re: A Sections

Post by Neutron 14 » Thu Mar 10, 2005 1:44 pm

My point in starting this thread is that people like to compare Class A vs Class AA. It simply doesn't compare. Sure, for one night, one game, the best in class A can play with the best of class AA. That said, the gap is not narrowing.<br><br>Using enrollment numbers to "justify" classification is simply failed logic. You can have 90 sophomores in Warroad and 75 will play hockey. You can have 400 sophomores at Coon Rapids and 35 will play hockey. Transfers and privates skew this even farther.<br><br>Now in so far as the bigger the school the better, I think that after about 45 kids at a level, you get diminishing returns. Only 15 skaters will play at the A level anyway. <p></p><i></i>

ROYALELK
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Re: A Sections

Post by ROYALELK » Thu Mar 10, 2005 1:55 pm

Just curious but, how many kids tried out for Warroad , and lets say Grace,because I'm pretty sure no one was cut from the Elks . Just to see what the enrollment numbers look like. <p></p><i></i>

pse44
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Re: A Sections

Post by pse44 » Thu Mar 10, 2005 1:59 pm

Dimishing returns after about 45 skaters I agree. But the odds are in the favor of the large school to find the cream of the crop. Would you rather have to choose from 45 skaters or 145. numbers make a program better. The odds are in your favor. That is what makes class "A" schools such a sucess story. I love to see class "A" school whip up on some "AA" schools it shows that no matter the odds these kids love to play the game. <p></p><i></i>

pse44
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Re: A Sections

Post by pse44 » Thu Mar 10, 2005 2:05 pm

Royal Elk I went and looked at ER youth numbers at pee-wee's they have one "A" team 2 B teams and 3 b2 teams with about 14 players on a team. compare that to some avg size teams of class "A" at that same level where most have only 15 players on an A and B team. The numbers speak for themselves. Class A school hold their own against most AA schools. <p></p><i></i>

Neutron 14
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pse44

Post by Neutron 14 » Thu Mar 10, 2005 2:11 pm

I too root for the Davids. I root for "C" players, JV kids, and anyone playing the game for fun. I am NOT an elitist. Just the opposite. <br><br>If you want AA resect, play AA. Roseau does.<br><br>I don't hear AHA saying their almost as good as Shattuck because they lost by one. And I'm sure Shattuck doesn't even try to compare themselves with the MHSHL. <p></p><i></i>

ROYALELK
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pse44

Post by ROYALELK » Thu Mar 10, 2005 2:30 pm

pse, i see what you are sayin, but i thot i read where some one thinks the more kids you have the stronger you will be,which seems logical but i dont believe it to be true, i dont know but i assume more kids tried out for Grace than kids at Warroad .Warroad is State Champs ,Grace is not.Where as ,again i assume, more kids tried out for Jefferson than did Elk River.Opposite out come,. <p></p><i></i>

mnhockey14
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Toooold2tell

Post by mnhockey14 » Thu Mar 10, 2005 2:54 pm

You need to think before you say that class A is a<br>joke and it should be played at Ridder (the gopher<br>womens arena). I agree this years Class A tournament<br>wasn't great because there were a lot of good teams<br>watching at home.<br><br>Breck (Class A) beat Duluth East (Class AA) who played<br>in the class AA tourny and beat the "all powerful<br>white bear lake" who beat Moorhead, tell you anything?<br>And i'm sure other A teams beat good AA teams.<br><br>If they want to fix the Class A state tourny they<br>should get the best teams in it.<br><br>Benilde <br>Blake<br>Breck<br>Totino<br>Duluth Marshall<br>Warroad<br>Orono?<br>Thief River?<br><br>That would be one hell of a tournament, maybe not as<br>big as the Class AA, but it would attract more fans,<br>better hockey, and be much more Respectable, than<br>having teams like Shakopee who you have to give credit<br>got through their section but didnt even break a .500<br>record in a not so strong conference.<br><br>Just a thought.....any ideas? <p></p><i></i>

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