A new low in Stillwater??

Older Topics, Not the current discussion

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DPA MacManus
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Post by DPA MacManus » Fri Jan 25, 2008 4:32 pm

MJ started back vs Roseville last Thursday.

fffhockey
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Post by fffhockey » Fri Jan 25, 2008 5:55 pm

Stillwater just isn't that good w/ or w/out the Housley boys.
Moundsview has actually won more games than Stillwater. Moundsview is #50 and Stillwater is #48. It also looks like they have more GF and less GA. Take a look for yourself
http://www.minnhock.com/pagestat.htm
Moundsview had a good game on Thursday and have had alot of close ones this year. After Thursday night, they may move up ahead of Stillwater on the Minnhock ratings. I agree playing pro doesn't make you a good coach, and it doesn't make your kid good either. My son has played with and against the Housley kid in some post/off season stuff. He definitely gets the opportunities because of the name. Doesn't appear to be a hard worker or go-getter on the ice. Just waiting around for some action.

Just a question- what did the high school coach possibly have to do with the who wore a C on their jersey at the youth level. Never heard about that one. No wonder so many of the Stillwater parents want him out.

itsjstagme
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Post by itsjstagme » Fri Jan 25, 2008 5:56 pm

I find it annoying how outside people comment on how the coach relates to the players...George Thole was a complete PLEASE BAN ME but yet managed to win title after title. Bottom line, they dont have enough skilled players. They are still feeling the affects from players lost to hill, not just from this year but back two and three years. Matt Johnson is back playing but there isnt one top team with only one player, all the good teams have at least one solid line. These kids all skate hard and I can assure you they and Phil want to win..

itsjstagme
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Post by itsjstagme » Fri Jan 25, 2008 6:02 pm

The problem with the youth player wearing the "c" was because he was on the A bantam team and it was already a forgone conclusion he was leaving the next year to hill. That isnt sending a good message for those kids who are staying, its telling them that sure we will develope you so you can go on to play against us. I believe you promote those within and those who are deserving. I think it would have been handled differently if he was going on to the development program and not across the street. I have no problems with the way phil handled it.

Charliedog
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Post by Charliedog » Fri Jan 25, 2008 6:14 pm

fff,

To get the history on the Stillwater youth hockey issues you have to go to the youth board all the way back to April of 2007 (Stillwater coach released) and then also to Nov 19 of 2007 for this seasons entertainment.

I will try to summarize the April post, but have no way to separate fact from fiction. Last year the A bantam team voted a Hill-Murray student to be their captain. Housley wanted the coach to rescind this and select a future Stillwater student and the coach refused because he believed the team should be the one making this decision not the high school coach. Housley then reacted by pulling his son from the bantam team and placing him in the Stillwater High School program. Sometime after this occured the A bantam coach was fired.

It looks like things just got real political from there.

itsjstagme
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Post by itsjstagme » Fri Jan 25, 2008 6:39 pm

The fact what happened was that his son wanted to try out for j.v and the bantam choach said he would not be able to return to bantams if he didnt make the team. Phil wants to have a smooth running program from top to bottom but that bantam coach wanted to do things his own way. as far as letting the kids choose there captain, they should but that kid should have been playing "b" bantam instead of "a" where he took the place of a kid who wants to play for stillwater. the whole mess is from "old" stillwater hockey people regecting a new coach before he even started.

itsjstagme
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Post by itsjstagme » Fri Jan 25, 2008 6:41 pm

Last thing on previous post, I do know the facts of what took place and most of what had come out in previous blogs where speculation and gossip..

who_b_dat
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Post by who_b_dat » Fri Jan 25, 2008 7:03 pm

itsjstagme wrote:Last thing on previous post, I do know the facts of what took place and most of what had come out in previous blogs where speculation and gossip..
You may know the facts and are welcome to your favorable opinion of coach Housley. However, I can certainly see why others would disagree based upon what you yourself have posted.

I don't want to hijack this thread but a youth program is free to not allow the high school coach to have final say on youth issues. After all, the youth program and the high school coach have very different interests. One focuses on the select and talented few while the other provides a positive experience for all who join. Those interests can be competing at times.

Additionally, any kid on the team should be treated as a full team member without regard to speculation on whether or not they will stay with the program in future years. To say that a kid should not get to wear the C patch solely because the coach thinks the kid may leave the program later on is just ridiculous. There’s never a guarantee with any kid.

If coach Housely had a hand in these two matters, and your posts suggest that he did, it’s no wonder some of the Pony faithful have “rejected him” as you say and are very frustrated at the on ice performance this year.

itsjstagme
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Post by itsjstagme » Fri Jan 25, 2008 7:31 pm

The problem being is that it was a FORGONE CONCLUSION he was leaving, it was no secret and with that being said, its not fair for him to take another kids spot who wants to play here. I did have mixed feelings as to how this all went down but it really did turn into a he said she said.

itsjstagme
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Post by itsjstagme » Fri Jan 25, 2008 7:32 pm

but like you said, it is only an opinion.

Hockeyguy_27
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Post by Hockeyguy_27 » Fri Jan 25, 2008 8:00 pm

Housley is someone I know, like and respect. I've seen his team play twice this year and think they have improved--from last season. Also, I don't feel they're deep with talent so cut the guy some slack.

Pucknutz69
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Post by Pucknutz69 » Fri Jan 25, 2008 11:08 pm

Name another team that is STARTING 2 sophmore goalies and being successful? Cotter and Penella are good and have a bright future but if the jrs from last year didn't decide to "toke it up" they might be in a better spot. The last 2 games they have hit the pipe 4+ times and 1 deflection into thier own net. It just seems with other teams those shots and bounces are finding the back of the net.

Look at Borher's second goal had the D all over him, he skated to the bottom of the faceoff circle and flipped it at the net, it catchs Cotter funny and deflects in the net. Against WBL Wiegan had three breakaways and 1 shot, the other 2 the puck bounced or rolled off his stick. They have no MOJO right now but I feel the only game they weren't really in was the Grand Rapids game. Just not getting anything bouncing thier way.

Some times teams no matter how good they are never come together, and conversely some bad teams can come together and be very successful.

saintpaulhockey
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Post by saintpaulhockey » Fri Jan 25, 2008 11:37 pm

This is not Housley's fault. Stillwater is simply not that talented, they play hard and smart but lack the skill to be considered an elite team. If Housley manages to keep some of the best talent in Stillwater, his true colors will show and Stillwater will become more than a perennial dark horse and middle of the road team.

Pucknutz69
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Post by Pucknutz69 » Sat Jan 26, 2008 4:21 am

Also if you look back at this group in peewee and bantam levels they were average, so where the "This is the year" talk came from is anyones guess. I think some of you are just complaining about Housley due to your expectations and maybe a little jealousy.


For someone like Royaltreatment to say you are a better coach then he is maybe you are but I bet we will never get the chance to find out will we? What have you ever coached Royal?? The way I look at it is Housley has been a coach for 3 1/2 years. I am guessing it takes a little longer then that to become a good coach and longer yet to be a great coach. He is learning just as are the boys playing for him.

WayOutWest
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Post by WayOutWest » Sat Jan 26, 2008 7:18 am

Pucknutz69 wrote:For someone like Royaltreatment to say you are a better coach then he is maybe you are but I bet we will never get the chance to find out will we? What have you ever coached Royal?? The way I look at it is Housley has been a coach for 3 1/2 years. I am guessing it takes a little longer then that to become a good coach and longer yet to be a great coach. He is learning just as are the boys playing for him.
This statement just demonstrates the kind of latitude that many folks are willing to give high school coaches. He's learning on the job? Isn't that more fitting at lower levels than high school? A mere name buys him a head coaching position at a decent sized high school. That being the case, the results are to be expected. :oops: :roll:

packerboy
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Post by packerboy » Sat Jan 26, 2008 10:39 am

If Stillwater had 2-3 guys who were committed to D1 programs and they were hovering around .500, I could undrstand the criticism but suggesting any coach can "turn around" a high school program is silly.

Whats he gonna do? Make average hockey players into stars? He is stuck with/lucky to get whoever enrolls and then make the best of it. I dont see how Housley isnt doing that.


As far as this thread being triggered by a loss to MV, I have seen MV and sorry, but their talent level isnt much different than Stillwaters.

hockeyeast223
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Post by hockeyeast223 » Sat Jan 26, 2008 11:15 am

To be honest, I don't think its necessarily the talent that's the issue. I mean the ponies had two guys play in the elite league (Molstad, Johnson) and from the games its clear that it takes a whole team to win. Half the teams in the SEC didnt have a single player in thh league. Johnson seems to be the only forward with any scoring sense and really leads the team with his physical, balls out mentality. Molstad moves the puck well and is posting 30 mins a game. I think it really has to do with the Stillwater youth programs. Maybe they just don't breed the players to have the strong desire to win. I've been to three or four games and it seems like the inconsistencies in the way they play has nothing to do with Phil. Yes everyones talking about "turning the program around" but we have to remember that great programs breed winners from the beginning. Phil is simply taking what he's been given and doing what he can. People bash him on here but haven't seen him on the bench. He is really giving the effort and the parents and kids, I'm sure, still believe in him.

WayOutWest
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Post by WayOutWest » Sat Jan 26, 2008 11:26 am

packerboy wrote: Whats he gonna do? Make average hockey players into stars? He is stuck with/lucky to get whoever enrolls and then make the best of it. I dont see how Housley isnt doing that.
More latitude.
High school hockey, as much as youth programs, is a developmental effort. If Housley is merely "taking what he is given" and throws it on the ice..........his worth is negligible, at best. Good coaches not only continue to develop their talent, but find ways to get the most out of what they have. YES, I WOULD expect him to facilitate marked improvements in "average players." He isn't there merely to keep the score. :roll:
Geez........why don't you guys just put "Gordie Howe" on the bench? I guess a cardboard cutout would be sufficient to satisfy you. :roll:

ALSECORD
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Post by ALSECORD » Sat Jan 26, 2008 11:51 am

WAYOUTWEST.. You may be the most sensible talent on this forum. You make alot of good points. Your not Sid Hartman or Charlie Walters by day are you?? I agree wholeheartedly on several fronts with you. I can't understand the mentality of some?? If this guys name was Joe Smith & not Phil Housley the Stillwater faithful would have run him out long ago. He has shown in the time he's been here he can't get these kids to play night in and night out. He is not developing this program. It's very simple..
Should be a barn burner tonight. Stillwater vs. Hastings.. Housley vs. Welch.. The blind leading the blind..

itsjstagme
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Post by itsjstagme » Sat Jan 26, 2008 12:17 pm

and alsecord you are????? ummmm yeh thats what I thought, another wanna be, typical arm chair quaterback, maybe you should run for office and solve the world issues, you seem to know evrything..........have you even met anyone from this team, ever talked coaching strategy with housley??? no I didnt think so. maybe you should keep your diarea mouth runnin about something you know about because it certainly isnt stillwater hockey.......the worst thing about people like you is that you dont realise that most of the kids read this crap!!!

who_b_dat
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Post by who_b_dat » Sat Jan 26, 2008 12:20 pm

What number are you itsjstagme? 27?

itsjstagme
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Post by itsjstagme » Sat Jan 26, 2008 12:29 pm

ha ha, that was solid. No, I'm not on the team, I am however pretty close to some of the players and I also have kids in the youth program.

HOCKEY SCOUT
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Housley

Post by HOCKEY SCOUT » Sat Jan 26, 2008 12:51 pm

Peolpe need to step back and look at it like they should. This is a game that is supposed to be for kids, not parents and outsiders. Phil Housley is a good coach and will continue to get better with time. The problem in Stillwater is like it is in many communities. When the team is not very good we need to blame someone other than use the fact that the talent level is very small in Stillwater. The whole Sub East is way down in talent this year. I have been scouting for quite some time and this is the first year where I have been asked to attend less than 5 games in this conference ever. Stillwater in my opinion has less talent than M.V. and it is no surprise that they lost this game at M.V.'s home arena. People that want to run coaches off or have them open to more scrutiny are a lttle crazy. These people do their jobs for a very small amount of money, they open their lives up to all of this second guessing and for what? Because they love hockey and kids period. Now I have run accross a couple that are a little full of themselves but over 99% of these guys are good people who actually care about their players on and off the ice. I have read on this site over and over how coaches should be fired and this year is no exception. My point is if you know more or can help out more than apply for one of the many openings around the state every year and give it a try. Most people are not qualified to do this job but still hide behind their screen name and shred these people and make false claims while hiding in the weeds. I know I wouldn't enjoy someone who doesn't have a clue about my job looking over my shoulder and badmouthing me in a public forum. That is why I never coached after my playing days. People don't want to hear this but the only people who really know what is going on in a program are the coach and his players. The parents hear "stories" from their kids and believe them as fact. The truth is most kids tell partial truths to their parents or skew the story to fit their needs. This isn't just a problem in hockey but in our society as a whole. Parents need to stay out of their kids business let them become good young adults by dealing with the adversity etc. If a kid is being abused or something like that than obviously step in but otherwise being benched or not playing on the powerplay is like real life learn to become a team player, fill your roll etc. Those are important lessons for these young men learn. We now have parents complaining to college and some pro coaches about playing time etc. I

Royaltreatment
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Post by Royaltreatment » Sat Jan 26, 2008 1:18 pm

HOCKEY SCOUT I can appreciate your point of view and I respect that. And Thank You for the life lesson thing. But these coaches, many with Ego's larger than the sheet of ice their playing on, know full well what they are getting into. And many, like Housley coach for a variety of reasons. Yes, some for the Love of the game, and for not much money. But don't kid yourself. Many coach to ensure that their own children get plenty of ice time. I'm a believer if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen. If he doesn't like the public's view of himself. Get out! Society's not going to change. Mr. Housley is by no means innocent of all charges. He speaks with arrogance and has caused some of his own problems. His hockey career is over. It's time to start teaching these kids some of what he has learned, and get off his high horse..

WayOutWest
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Re: Housley

Post by WayOutWest » Sat Jan 26, 2008 2:27 pm

HOCKEY SCOUT wrote: The problem in Stillwater is like it is in many communities. When the team is not very good we need to blame someone other than use the fact that the talent level is very small in Stillwater. ...... People that want to run coaches off or have them open to more scrutiny are a lttle crazy. These people do their jobs for a very small amount of money, they open their lives up to all of this second guessing and for what? Because they love hockey and kids period. Now I have run accross a couple that are a little full of themselves but over 99% of these guys are good people who actually care about their players on and off the ice. I have read on this site over and over how coaches should be fired and this year is no exception. My point is if you know more or can help out more than apply for one of the many openings around the state every year and give it a try. Most people are not qualified to do this job but still hide behind their screen name and shred these people and make false claims while hiding in the weeds. I know I wouldn't enjoy someone who doesn't have a clue about my job looking over my shoulder and badmouthing me in a public forum. That is why I never coached after my playing days. People don't want to hear this but the only people who really know what is going on in a program are the coach and his players. The parents hear "stories" from their kids and believe them as fact. The truth is most kids tell partial truths to their parents or skew the story to fit their needs. This isn't just a problem in hockey but in our society as a whole. Parents need to stay out of their kids business let them become good young adults by dealing with the adversity etc. If a kid is being abused or something like that than obviously step in but otherwise being benched or not playing on the powerplay is like real life learn to become a team player, fill your roll etc. Those are important lessons for these young men learn. We now have parents complaining to college and some pro coaches about playing time etc. I
"Scout" -
You preach that people are quick to blame, and balk at folks blaming Housley, yet you immediate affix blame to the "talent level." Huh.

"Scrutiny" comes with the territory, in high school coaching, Scout. C'mon, you should know this. No one who takes a H.S. coaching job thinks they're going to skate by without seeing some criticism. It's a very public job, and thus subject to public scrutiny.

And you certainly do NOT need to be a coach or a player to realize what is going on in the program. Many parents and fans are QUITE capable of assessing talent, effort, coaching decisions, and development of a program, merely by watching the team.

"Parents need to stay out of their kid's business." ????????????????????
Are you kidding me? You do understand parental responsibilities, right? Most of these kids are not yet adults. Parents have every right AND obligation to take an active role in their kid's "business." No one in this thread was complaining about anyone being benched, or not being on the powerplay. They may be concerned about their kid's development and the overall health of the Stillwater program. It appears you consider that to be a bad thing.

I suspect Mr. Housley is perfectly capable of handling some pressure, and of answering some concerns. It comes with the job. If you want to go forward with blind faith that Mr. Housley is steering the Stillwater program in the right direction, please feel free to do so. But do not attempt to chastize anyone who voices concerns. They are NOT out of line. :roll:

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