Worst Tourney in a long while?

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BranchesMagnum
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Worst Tourney in a long while?

Post by BranchesMagnum » Mon Mar 17, 2008 10:21 am

I heard on KFAN the other day that some people thought this years tourney was one of the worst ones to date. The "A" tourney wasn't that great with St. Thomas dominating and the "AA" wasn't to good either with the only good game being Edina and BSM. Post your thoughts.

droppin'gloves
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Post by droppin'gloves » Mon Mar 17, 2008 10:23 am

Everyone just loves to complain. There have been better tournaments, but this one was just fine.

MNHockeyFan
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Post by MNHockeyFan » Mon Mar 17, 2008 10:56 am

If you measure the quality of the Tournament by the number of games that were "nailbiters" this one probably wouldn't rank as one of the best. But because all of the seeded teams advanced from the quarterfinals, you could also make the argument that nobody had an easy road to becoming champion, and that both STA and Hill Murray really had to earn their wins. Certainly in 2A, going into the tournament MOST people would have predicted Edina or Roseau to be the eventual champs, with maybe BSM or Hill Murray having a good chance to contend also. In that sense you had four excellent teams with no unanimous choice to take it all, and it was Hill Murray that rose to the occasion. But they needed real good goaltending to do this - it wasn't like they walked all over their opponents and completely dominated from start to finish.

I agree though that from a pure fan's perspective, the main letdown was that the outcome of most of the games was pretty much decided after two periods of play, which made most of the games less exciting than they could (or maybe should) have been. The big exception was of course the Edina-BSM game, which ranks right up there with the best tournament games I've personally seen. It would have been spectacular if a game of that caliber would have been for the Championship.

Pioneerprideguy
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Post by Pioneerprideguy » Mon Mar 17, 2008 11:10 am

A private school sweep & all the hardware in Class AA remained in the metro....sounds like a wonderful state tournament to me. :D

packerboy
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Post by packerboy » Mon Mar 17, 2008 11:16 am

Pioneerprideguy wrote:A private school sweep & all the hardware in Class AA remained in the metro....sounds like a wonderful state tournament to me. :D
Right you are Ppg. The Catholics rule St Paul again.

But the tournamnet was pretty predictable. We all knew who the best teams were in AA and the best in A.

I though Friday night at the AA tournament was great hockey. Saturday night was too.

The tournament played out in form with the field. It was top heavy.

hockeydad
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Post by hockeydad » Mon Mar 17, 2008 11:47 am

I made the point in another thread that with the seeding, it reduces the chances of having a big matchup in the first round. Last year, we had three "upsets" in teh first round, so that made it more exciting, but this year the top seed won all four games, most of them rather handily. I think that is one of the things I dont' like about seeding, it makes the first round rather predictable.

But I wouldn't call this the "worst tournament" of all time

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Post by TheHockeyDJ » Mon Mar 17, 2008 12:31 pm

I think the tourney is more than just about state. There were a lot of great matchups at buildings like the DECC and Mariucci in sections. Gotta appreciate that too.
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Post by Sparlimb » Mon Mar 17, 2008 12:35 pm

hockeydad wrote:I made the point in another thread that with the seeding, it reduces the chances of having a big matchup in the first round. Last year, we had three "upsets" in teh first round, so that made it more exciting, but this year the top seed won all four games, most of them rather handily. I think that is one of the things I dont' like about seeding, it makes the first round rather predictable.

But I wouldn't call this the "worst tournament" of all time
On the other hand, if the seeding holds true, it allows for an unbelievable Friday night. Which is what happened this year and became the most watched hockey games in Minnesota history (attendance wise). That said, I don't really care for the seeding either because you are making a distinction between teams that gutted it out and won their sections. I'd prefer it still be random and we judge everyone equally. But they got what they wanted and it made for some great games. As a Hill fan, I'm just fine with games essentially being over after 2 periods. But for the casual fan that isn't all that exciting. Worst tourney ever, I can't say that. I would guess some very early tournaments that had Eveleth destroying everyone they played as not as fun ('48-'51), but I'm a bit young to comment on them...

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Post by Neutron 14 » Mon Mar 17, 2008 12:43 pm

Hill and the Cowardly Lions won. Terrible.
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packerboy
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Post by packerboy » Mon Mar 17, 2008 12:58 pm

Sparlimb wrote:
hockeydad wrote:I made the point in another thread that with the seeding, it reduces the chances of having a big matchup in the first round. Last year, we had three "upsets" in teh first round, so that made it more exciting, but this year the top seed won all four games, most of them rather handily. I think that is one of the things I dont' like about seeding, it makes the first round rather predictable.

But I wouldn't call this the "worst tournament" of all time
On the other hand, if the seeding holds true, it allows for an unbelievable Friday night. Which is what happened this year and became the most watched hockey games in Minnesota history (attendance wise). That said, I don't really care for the seeding either because you are making a distinction between teams that gutted it out and won their sections. I'd prefer it still be random and we judge everyone equally. But they got what they wanted and it made for some great games. As a Hill fan, I'm just fine with games essentially being over after 2 periods. But for the casual fan that isn't all that exciting. Worst tourney ever, I can't say that. I would guess some very early tournaments that had Eveleth destroying everyone they played as not as fun ('48-'51), but I'm a bit young to comment on them...
And there isnt any reason why you cant seed and have a great 3 days. It all depends on the field and how close they are.


There have been a number of tournamnets where the winner was a forgone conclusion and it was only a question of who got the easiest draw for runner up.

This year it was between 4 teams and it could have gone any which way. Id say it was Up for Grabs. The score on Sat night was 3-0 but that was good hockey.

A lot better Sat night than the last 2 years.

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Post by SiouxRecruit » Mon Mar 17, 2008 2:35 pm

I did not ejnoy the outcome...2 private schools winning is never a good tournament... :( ....but it was pretty fun to watch...because it was good hockey...
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Post by ChrisK » Mon Mar 17, 2008 2:48 pm

This year's section tournaments were great, the Minnetonka-BSM and Edina-Burnsville doubleheader were the two best back to back games I've seen in awhile and the Roseville-WBL and Hill-WBL games during that week were a lot of fun also.

It seems like when the sections have really good games the tourney doesn't quite match up and vice versa but a tournament that featured a game as good as Friday night's Benilde-Edina game, players like Aaron Ness and Zach Budish and a performance like Joe Phillippi's cannot be called 'the worst tourney in awhile'. Maybe there's just some disappointment that it was Hill that won it all but they did earn it by beating the top two seeds and you couldn't say that about Roseau last year or even Cretin (if there had been seeding) two years ago.

Interestingly, the Class A quarterfinals featured the best games, the Mankato West-Duluth Marshall and Little Falls-STA games were the most fun.
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Post by Mite-dad » Mon Mar 17, 2008 3:12 pm

ChrisK wrote:This year's section tournaments were great, the Minnetonka-BSM and Edina-Burnsville doubleheader were the two best back to back games I've seen in awhile and the Roseville-WBL and Hill-WBL games during that week were a lot of fun also.

It seems like when the sections have really good games the tourney doesn't quite match up and vice versa but a tournament that featured a game as good as Friday night's Benilde-Edina game, players like Aaron Ness and Zach Budish and a performance like Joe Phillippi's cannot be called 'the worst tourney in awhile'. Maybe there's just some disappointment that it was Hill that won it all but they did earn it by beating the top two seeds and you couldn't say that about Roseau last year or even Cretin (if there had been seeding) two years ago.

Interestingly, the Class A quarterfinals featured the best games, the Mankato West-Duluth Marshall and Little Falls-STA games were the most fun.
The A championship was played at 6:00 pm on Wednesday evening. :wink:

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Post by BIAFP » Mon Mar 17, 2008 5:00 pm

Based on the outcome, one of the worst on record. :roll:

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Post by MNHockey75 » Mon Mar 17, 2008 5:02 pm

I've been going to the Tourney since 1999 and this years Tourney was by far the worst I've ever seen. The worst single A field. The worst AA games ever (with exception to the BSM/Edina game). Private school dominance. Some terrible goaltending. The list goes on...I can only hope, it gets better. One big reason for the A tourney being as bad as it was is...Festler, LeBlanc, Schroeder, Crandall, Hjelle, Larson, Sacchetti, Patterson, and Stampohar leaving for greener pastures. I think they need to spread the best teams out a bit after next season.

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Post by sachishi4 » Mon Mar 17, 2008 5:26 pm

i think you people need to get over your private school hate.

best tourney ive been too, ever
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pistol
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Post by pistol » Mon Mar 17, 2008 6:02 pm

Lou Nanne thought Hill-Murray played the best tournament he had ever seen.

Maybe we could bring back Ringette for BIAFP and the Nordern folks who are still crying over their sacrificial lambs.

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Post by Hillhockey000 » Mon Mar 17, 2008 7:11 pm

A - kind of boring :roll:
AA - Great, great tourney from my point of view, but I wouldn't of complained if the games were a little more like the UofM-MSU games this past weekend. Those were great! :D

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You could'a voted in my poll

Post by Madman Riley » Mon Mar 17, 2008 8:26 pm

It's interesting that this topic re-surfaced (wish I'd heard the caller on KFAN that triggered the start of this thread).

Anyway I can't remember a less interesting and boring tournament, overall, than the 2008 competition.

It seems that most of the "no it wasn't!" respondents were those who can't accept *any* criticism of the tournament and that's not what I was looking for. If you didn't vote in the poll, the thread is here
http://www.ushsho.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=16358

Of the replies I've read so far, the excerpt below from this one writer seems most on the money:
MNHockeyFan wrote:...
I agree though that from a pure fan's perspective, the main letdown was that the outcome of most of the games was pretty much decided after two periods of play, which made most of the games less exciting than they could (or maybe should) have been. The big exception was of course the Edina-BSM game, which ranks right up there with the best tournament games I've personally seen. It would have been spectacular if a game of that caliber would have been for the Championship.

Speculation on 'seedings' or private school/public school matchups or townies -v- "citiots" aren't really what I'd hoped to find.

May be I should have tried it this way:
Can you think of any tournament (I go back to 1962) that was LESS interesting than this one, overall?

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Post by pistol » Mon Mar 17, 2008 8:33 pm

1981-1982, 1989-1990, 1994-1996, 1998, 2001, and 2003-2005 were all less interesting than 2008!

Madman Riley
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Post by Madman Riley » Mon Mar 17, 2008 8:41 pm

pistol wrote:1981-1982, 1989-1990, 1994-1996, 1998, 2001, and 2003-2005 were all less interesting than 2008!
In what ways?
There are plenty of reasons listed for the deficiencies seen in 2008 but all you've listed are years, so, uh...any specifics to offer?

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Post by pistol » Mon Mar 17, 2008 8:43 pm

Best program missing

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Post by Pioneerprideguy » Mon Mar 17, 2008 9:29 pm

I think Hill owes everyone an apology for this year's tournament. First Lech apologizes to everyone for throwing a wrench into the dream match-up of Roseau & Edina. He actually felt bad that his club destroyed the best team from the north. Everyone enjoys seeing goals scored so what does Hill do?...they go & shutout 2 of the 3 teams they face. Those poor fans never got the joy of celebrating a goal scored. HM tried to make it interesting by taking penalty after penalty, hoping that by playing a man short, somebody would score & make the games more entertaining. They realized that their talent was superior to the rest of the field & thought sitting a guy would actually make the games more competitive, but it just didn't work. So in the end, Hill-Murray owes the high school hockey fans an apology for making this tourney so boring & leaving no real doubt, who best team in the state was. We are sorry! :cry:

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Post by Madman Riley » Mon Mar 17, 2008 9:53 pm

Pioneerprideguy wrote: ...So in the end, Hill-Murray owes the high school hockey fans an apology for making this tourney so boring & leaving no real doubt, who best team in the state was. We are sorry! :cry:
Huh!?!
Last time I looked, Hill-Murray was only one of the 16 teams in the tournament. And only one of TWO crowned champions. So don't try to hog all the credit, Ppg.

Seriously, I don't think anyone would deny the magnificence of the effort they gave in knocking off the presumed occupants to the throne, both Roseau and Edina, but why assume that it was mainly the Pioneers who made the tournament dull?

Did anyone point the finger at a specific TEAM as the cause?

Nope.

The word 'overall' has been used more than once.
And OVERALL no matter what team won which championship most of the games -- not all of them, no matter how many times the obfuscators try to imply it -- most games in the 2008 Tournament were snoozers.

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Re: You could'a voted in my poll

Post by packerboy » Mon Mar 17, 2008 10:03 pm

Madman Riley wrote:
May be I should have tried it this way:
Can you think of any tournament (I go back to 1962) that was LESS interesting than this one, overall?
The IFalls teams in the mid 60s; the BJefferson teams in the 90s';a couple of Edina teams ;and the Scott Bloom Burnsville teams made a number of tournamnets "uninteresting " because Sat night was a mere formality.

Thats just off the top of my had. I am sure there are more.

No one knew which of the 4 top seeds would win until it played itself out in 2008.

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