st.cloud apollo

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Blue&Gold

Post by Blue&Gold » Thu Mar 27, 2008 11:25 am

2pipesin... well said.. but I'm just having so much fun ridin' the Tech folks that I've lost sight.. All I've been saying about coaches and stuff has been just to feed the frenzy... (The statement about change was aimed at Tech, so don't take it too seriously.. I have a lot of respect for Larson and what he did at Apollo)

If we want to have a serious discussion about the state of hockey in central MN, I'm game. But if we want to hear the dribble of "my team - your team", then let's have fun and throw the dung-bombs. I can play either way. I can talk about the coaches, I can talk about the players, and I can talk about the teams.

Sorry if anyone took my stuff seriously, perhaps only George B knows when I'm trolling and when I'm in the game... ;-)

BlueGoose5
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Post by BlueGoose5 » Thu Mar 27, 2008 11:30 am

zippitydoda wrote:The Goose is Loose -- again, whether it's Blue and Gold or Blue Goose, which I happen to think are one in the same.

You guys are so clever with your sarcasm that the average Joe like me just can't keep up. Too witty and deep, I guess, for most of us.......but that wouldn't be any arrogance creeping through......would it?

I agree with the last post that demographics are changing in St. Cloud. But one assocation can't recruit at the younger levels to get kids involved in hockey to send enough on to the high schools in St. Cloud. I happen to think two associations are a good idea. Don't hold your breath on Tech and Apollo combining. That's been a rumor for years. As far as the rivalries go, they should be just that, but some CHS people seem to have some deep-seated pathological need to slam Tech whenever they can in order to make themselves feel better. It's rather pathetic. Get some help.

Zippity, thanks for the compliment, but be assured that Blue & Gold and BlueGoose are not one in the same. In fact, Blue & Gold is too knowledgeable for the Goose. Howver, like B & G, I am a fan of dung slinging, especially when it's southward bound. Toot! Toot!

George Blanda
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Post by George Blanda » Thu Mar 27, 2008 11:47 am

Blue&Gold + BlueGoose5 = One in the Same

Chad Hommerding + Colleen Donovan = zippitydoda
"they are LAME" -darkdemon on SJU hockey

2pipesnin
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Post by 2pipesnin » Thu Mar 27, 2008 12:33 pm

Zippi - I do not want to turn this thread into a youth hockey debate!
But, if one good association can't entice more hockey players, two mediocre associates will fail miserably. 400 divided by 2 does not create higher numbers. It may for the South side initially (and that is your groups selfish intent) But not all the south side players will ultimately play for Tech. Now you have the talent pool split again. Average players playing together will not make them better players. This was attempted a few years back by the un-named Tech youth hockey Group and failed miserably at the Bantam level. A great hockey mind once wrote:

"Coaches can believe anything they want, but players are just as likely to get better because of the better players around them as they will because of a coach. They need a healthy mix of both. In one case their sub-conscious mind emulates what they see every day and the other case they learn from their mistakes and dialogue from the coaching staff. The sub-conscious mind will emulate all the good it sees. Each player will get better in each category if every player overachieves in their asset categories.

So keep the association together put the best 17 kids on one A team (and let them push each other) and the next set on the B1's and so on.

The other thing the "split" association will do is kill the "girls hockey" program and that is not right either.

If Tech wants to attract better hockey players, then Tech better come up with some reasons why better players should make the jump.

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Post by Goldy Gopher » Thu Mar 27, 2008 12:38 pm

BlueGoose5 wrote:Goldy, I for one took your comment as one of sarcasm. Some here have a hard time reading between the words. Your comment was well taken. Litchfield, I think, would qualify as one of Zippity's so-called "tomato cans". Tech, too, probably qualifies as a tomato can in Section 8AA.
I'm glad someone caught on. Sarcasm must be a northside thing.
The U invented swagger.

George Blanda
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Post by George Blanda » Thu Mar 27, 2008 12:44 pm

Goldy Gopher wrote:
BlueGoose5 wrote:Goldy, I for one took your comment as one of sarcasm. Some here have a hard time reading between the words. Your comment was well taken. Litchfield, I think, would qualify as one of Zippity's so-called "tomato cans". Tech, too, probably qualifies as a tomato can in Section 8AA.
I'm glad someone caught on. Sarcasm must be a northside thing.
I'm as far North and West as you can get in that down...so I get it too. Cool beans.
"they are LAME" -darkdemon on SJU hockey

zippitydoda
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Post by zippitydoda » Thu Mar 27, 2008 12:44 pm

2pipes:

I'm not debating anything regarding youth hockey. You stated your opinion. I stated mine. We just disagree. I do enjoy, however, Blue man and his "I'm only having fun by slamming Tech." No one should get too upset.....The fact is, you do this about every week somewhere on this board and then other CHS like Blanda chime in. By the way, George, aren't you on the taxpayers dime when you're on this board? By the way, Blue and Gold, in all your knowledge and experience, did you ever play the game at any level or are all your "expert" opinions coming from books and observations? Just curious.

Goldy Gopher
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Post by Goldy Gopher » Thu Mar 27, 2008 12:52 pm

2pipesnin wrote:The ongoing battle of who can beat who in St Cloud hockey has been discussed and analyzed since the opening of Apollo High School or the MAC Ice Arena (which ever one was second). Add to that the two additional hockey programs developed in Sauk Rapids and Sartell and now you have 5 High School Hockey teams (one “AA” and four “A” ) within a 5 to 10 mile radius. There are not enough good hockey players in the area to consistently feed these teams. That is why Tech will never win a section championship and also why none of the area teams will ever lure in a big name coach! (since you guy’s are also discussing coaching) The closest we got was Ed Zin’s (Edina Assistant) at Apollo and CHS’s Mike Antonovich. Since the late 70’s and most of the 80’s Tech and Apollo have had strong teams and some great “sold out Mac” rivalry games. Each team getting their share of wins. CHS struggled for many of those years but got their share of wins as well. Since the 80’s Apollo has been to the State Tournament a few times and since the two tier split so has CHS. Say what you want about the two tier split, but the kids that have played in the State High School Hockey Tournament (“A” or “AA”) will never forget it.
The demographics of St Cloud are changing drastically and the diversity of the kids attending public schools is just as drastic (they do not play hockey). Apollo dropped in school size enough to move to “A”. Is that terrible? No, the kids are still playing hockey. Did you see a bunch of hockey players from Apollo or CHS jump to Tech just so they could play “AA” hockey? No, why not? (you can decide for yourself why that does not happen in St Cloud (except for the heartman family)) ……but it does in every other town that has both “A” and “AA”.
My point is that the surrounding area rivalry sports are good weather you are “A” or “AA” and from a fan perspective we should be promoting and enjoying those rivalries. The team to watch out for in the next few years is Sartell. They had a young high school hockey team this year that showed promise, they have a very strong youth hockey program building and they have a tremendous amount of growth potential within their city. Sauk Rapids always seems to scrape up enough good kids to make for an interesting year. CHS was young this year and should be fun to watch again next year. Apollo is struggling to find players and they will eventually combine with Tech. (my opinion – which would make the Tech youth hockey assoc. a mute point). So, Tech, Apollo, CHS, Sartell, Sauk Rapids hockey teams. To many choices and not enough quality players. But, just enough, that on any given night one of these teams can beat the other.
Apollo has been to the state tourney once in its history, that was in 1984. Chris Harrington was a crossbar away from sending them back in the early 2000's.

I assume when you say the heartman family you're refering to the Hartman family? As in Matt who is currently at SCSU and Joe who is currently playing for the Blizzard in the NAHL?
The U invented swagger.

BlueGoose5
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Post by BlueGoose5 » Thu Mar 27, 2008 1:27 pm

zippitydoda wrote:2pipes:

I'm not debating anything regarding youth hockey. You stated your opinion. I stated mine. We just disagree. I do enjoy, however, Blue man and his "I'm only having fun by slamming Tech." No one should get too upset.....The fact is, you do this about every week somewhere on this board and then other CHS like Blanda chime in. By the way, George, aren't you on the taxpayers dime when you're on this board? By the way, Blue and Gold, in all your knowledge and experience, did you ever play the game at any level or are all your "expert" opinions coming from books and observations? Just curious.


Just for the record, Zippity is referring to Blue&Gold and not BlueGoose in his "Blue man" reference. BlueGoose doesn't have any fun slamming Tech, but does it to just point out the facts.

BlueGoose5
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Post by BlueGoose5 » Thu Mar 27, 2008 1:33 pm

Goldy Gopher wrote:
2pipesnin wrote:The ongoing battle of who can beat who in St Cloud hockey has been discussed and analyzed since the opening of Apollo High School or the MAC Ice Arena (which ever one was second). Add to that the two additional hockey programs developed in Sauk Rapids and Sartell and now you have 5 High School Hockey teams (one “AA” and four “A” ) within a 5 to 10 mile radius. There are not enough good hockey players in the area to consistently feed these teams. That is why Tech will never win a section championship and also why none of the area teams will ever lure in a big name coach! (since you guy’s are also discussing coaching) The closest we got was Ed Zin’s (Edina Assistant) at Apollo and CHS’s Mike Antonovich. Since the late 70’s and most of the 80’s Tech and Apollo have had strong teams and some great “sold out Mac” rivalry games. Each team getting their share of wins. CHS struggled for many of those years but got their share of wins as well. Since the 80’s Apollo has been to the State Tournament a few times and since the two tier split so has CHS. Say what you want about the two tier split, but the kids that have played in the State High School Hockey Tournament (“A” or “AA”) will never forget it.
The demographics of St Cloud are changing drastically and the diversity of the kids attending public schools is just as drastic (they do not play hockey). Apollo dropped in school size enough to move to “A”. Is that terrible? No, the kids are still playing hockey. Did you see a bunch of hockey players from Apollo or CHS jump to Tech just so they could play “AA” hockey? No, why not? (you can decide for yourself why that does not happen in St Cloud (except for the heartman family)) ……but it does in every other town that has both “A” and “AA”.
My point is that the surrounding area rivalry sports are good weather you are “A” or “AA” and from a fan perspective we should be promoting and enjoying those rivalries. The team to watch out for in the next few years is Sartell. They had a young high school hockey team this year that showed promise, they have a very strong youth hockey program building and they have a tremendous amount of growth potential within their city. Sauk Rapids always seems to scrape up enough good kids to make for an interesting year. CHS was young this year and should be fun to watch again next year. Apollo is struggling to find players and they will eventually combine with Tech. (my opinion – which would make the Tech youth hockey assoc. a mute point). So, Tech, Apollo, CHS, Sartell, Sauk Rapids hockey teams. To many choices and not enough quality players. But, just enough, that on any given night one of these teams can beat the other.
Apollo has been to the state tourney once in its history, that was in 1984. Chris Harrington was a crossbar away from sending them back in the early 2000's.

I assume when you say the heartman family you're refering to the Hartman family? As in Matt who is currently at SCSU and Joe who is currently playing for the Blizzard in the NAHL?

Both Matt and Joe Hartmann played one year at CHS, then finished at Apollo. Neither thought for a second to join Tech.

Goldy Gopher
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Post by Goldy Gopher » Thu Mar 27, 2008 1:37 pm

BlueGoose5 wrote:
Goldy Gopher wrote:
2pipesnin wrote:The ongoing battle of who can beat who in St Cloud hockey has been discussed and analyzed since the opening of Apollo High School or the MAC Ice Arena (which ever one was second). Add to that the two additional hockey programs developed in Sauk Rapids and Sartell and now you have 5 High School Hockey teams (one “AA” and four “A” ) within a 5 to 10 mile radius. There are not enough good hockey players in the area to consistently feed these teams. That is why Tech will never win a section championship and also why none of the area teams will ever lure in a big name coach! (since you guy’s are also discussing coaching) The closest we got was Ed Zin’s (Edina Assistant) at Apollo and CHS’s Mike Antonovich. Since the late 70’s and most of the 80’s Tech and Apollo have had strong teams and some great “sold out Mac” rivalry games. Each team getting their share of wins. CHS struggled for many of those years but got their share of wins as well. Since the 80’s Apollo has been to the State Tournament a few times and since the two tier split so has CHS. Say what you want about the two tier split, but the kids that have played in the State High School Hockey Tournament (“A” or “AA”) will never forget it.
The demographics of St Cloud are changing drastically and the diversity of the kids attending public schools is just as drastic (they do not play hockey). Apollo dropped in school size enough to move to “A”. Is that terrible? No, the kids are still playing hockey. Did you see a bunch of hockey players from Apollo or CHS jump to Tech just so they could play “AA” hockey? No, why not? (you can decide for yourself why that does not happen in St Cloud (except for the heartman family)) ……but it does in every other town that has both “A” and “AA”.
My point is that the surrounding area rivalry sports are good weather you are “A” or “AA” and from a fan perspective we should be promoting and enjoying those rivalries. The team to watch out for in the next few years is Sartell. They had a young high school hockey team this year that showed promise, they have a very strong youth hockey program building and they have a tremendous amount of growth potential within their city. Sauk Rapids always seems to scrape up enough good kids to make for an interesting year. CHS was young this year and should be fun to watch again next year. Apollo is struggling to find players and they will eventually combine with Tech. (my opinion – which would make the Tech youth hockey assoc. a mute point). So, Tech, Apollo, CHS, Sartell, Sauk Rapids hockey teams. To many choices and not enough quality players. But, just enough, that on any given night one of these teams can beat the other.
Apollo has been to the state tourney once in its history, that was in 1984. Chris Harrington was a crossbar away from sending them back in the early 2000's.

I assume when you say the heartman family you're refering to the Hartman family? As in Matt who is currently at SCSU and Joe who is currently playing for the Blizzard in the NAHL?

Both Matt and Joe Hartmann played one year at CHS, then finished at Apollo. Neither thought for a second to join Tech.
That's what I was going to respond with when he confirmed that was the same family.

Now you're just trying to steal my posts. :twisted:
The U invented swagger.

zippitydoda
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Post by zippitydoda » Thu Mar 27, 2008 1:39 pm

Hartmanns did switch to Apollo, whch would make sense, since the live on the northside. Besides, Apollo had some talented players when Matt switched over to go there. They had enough talent to go to state but didn't. Coaching? That seems to be the usual suspect from reading others on this board.

Goldy Gopher
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Post by Goldy Gopher » Thu Mar 27, 2008 1:43 pm

zippitydoda wrote:Hartmanns did switch to Apollo, whch would make sense, since the live on the northside. Besides, Apollo had some talented players when Matt switched over to go there. They had enough talent to go to state but didn't. Coaching? That seems to be the usual suspect from reading others on this board.
The reason that they didn't go to state is because they lost to the number one team in the state in OT in the section final. Don't think coaching has much to do with that loss.
The U invented swagger.

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Post by Fireman66 » Thu Mar 27, 2008 1:46 pm

Goldy Gopher wrote:
zippitydoda wrote:Hartmanns did switch to Apollo, whch would make sense, since the live on the northside. Besides, Apollo had some talented players when Matt switched over to go there. They had enough talent to go to state but didn't. Coaching? That seems to be the usual suspect from reading others on this board.
The reason that they didn't go to state is because they lost to the number one team in the state in OT in the section final. Don't think coaching has much to do with that loss.
Just who was that #1 team in the state :-k
Lots of water = a dead flamer

zippitydoda
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Post by zippitydoda » Thu Mar 27, 2008 1:47 pm

Can't remember who beat them in that final. Do you? The advancing years are hard on the memory.

BlueGoose5
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Post by BlueGoose5 » Thu Mar 27, 2008 1:49 pm

zippitydoda wrote:Hartmanns did switch to Apollo, whch would make sense, since the live on the northside. Besides, Apollo had some talented players when Matt switched over to go there. They had enough talent to go to state but didn't. Coaching? That seems to be the usual suspect from reading others on this board.

This one is worth a response. There's a core group of disgruntled Tech supporters who are also suspect. Not only do they despise SCC/Apollo and all Class A teams and Buffalo hockey, but as mentioned, they despise the local private youth hockey association and are spearheading an effort to break it up in the name that it's best for the kids. Yeah, right. This core group will destroy Tech hockey or eventually will bring down its' coach.

Fireman66
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Post by Fireman66 » Thu Mar 27, 2008 1:49 pm

zippitydoda wrote:Can't remember who beat them in that final. Do you? The advancing years are hard on the memory.
To many years bellyed up to the bar :?:
Lots of water = a dead flamer

zippitydoda
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Post by zippitydoda » Thu Mar 27, 2008 1:53 pm

That would be true, if I drank. Although I have a feeling a few people on this board are making their own moonshine and intoxicated with their own brew.

Fireman66
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Post by Fireman66 » Thu Mar 27, 2008 1:55 pm

zippitydoda wrote:That would be true, if I drank. Although I have a feeling a few people on this board are making their own moonshine and intoxicated with their own brew.
I agree, especially Goldy :twisted:
Lots of water = a dead flamer

zippitydoda
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Post by zippitydoda » Thu Mar 27, 2008 2:15 pm

Goose:

If you want to whine or debate youth hockey, why don't you take it on the youth hockey message board? This is a high school board. People keep referring to "this group" or whatever. It doesn't belong on this board or thread. Let the district and the state governing bodies make the decision. They will in the long run, anyway. Can we move on?

BlueGoose5
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Post by BlueGoose5 » Thu Mar 27, 2008 2:24 pm

zippitydoda wrote:That would be true, if I drank. Although I have a feeling a few people on this board are making their own moonshine and intoxicated with their own brew.

Sarcasm? Toot. Toot.

2pipesnin
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Post by 2pipesnin » Thu Mar 27, 2008 2:39 pm

Thank you for the spelling correction of the hartmann name.

My point is that the harmann family and maybe Hines and Saurer(s) were the only families to jump to a "AA" school (Apollo was AA then) for pure exposure reasons (hartmanns just used CHS as a stepping stone). Sartell may not have a had a team yet for the other two.
So why are not more talented hockey players in the area jumping over to Tech since they are the only AA school for exposure?

They do in Duluth every year!

zippitydoda
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Post by zippitydoda » Thu Mar 27, 2008 2:40 pm

It could be sarcasm.......I can't keep them all straight, sarcasm, irony, satire. I didn't do well in English or speech.

BlueGoose5
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Post by BlueGoose5 » Thu Mar 27, 2008 2:44 pm

In answer to your posed question, Pipes, just refer to many of the above postings. Also, it's probably for the same reason that several Bantam A players elected to not play on the Bantam A team this year as it was a team comprised nearly entirely of Tech-bound players. Something about attitudes and obnoxious behavior was stated by some.

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Post by George Blanda » Thu Mar 27, 2008 2:58 pm

zippitydoda wrote:No one should get too upset.....The fact is, you do this about every week somewhere on this board and then other CHS like Blanda chime in. By the way, George, aren't you on the taxpayers dime when you're on this board? By the way, Blue and Gold, in all your knowledge and experience, did you ever play the game at any level or are all your "expert" opinions coming from books and observations? Just curious.
Don't count on it. Unless the taxpayers want to start paying my rent, cable, internet and electric...
"they are LAME" -darkdemon on SJU hockey

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