Is the Elite League Accomplishing its Goals?

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Is the league accomplishing its goal of allowing the best high school players to play for their schools rather than opting for Junior Hockey?

Yes, couldn't be better.
2
7%
Mostly, but it could be better.
6
21%
Somewhat, but it could be much better.
16
57%
No, More Players are Leaving than ever before.
4
14%
 
Total votes: 28

Mitch Hawker
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Is the Elite League Accomplishing its Goals?

Post by Mitch Hawker » Tue Nov 04, 2008 9:49 am

I see that the Elite League has this same poll up on thir own website.

Is the league accomplishing its goal of allowing the best high school players to play for their schools rather than opting for Junior Hockey?

Discuss...let's keep it constructive.

Pucknutz69
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Post by Pucknutz69 » Tue Nov 04, 2008 10:01 am

I would have to say NO. I think it is funny when they get kids in as Sophmores and/or Jrs that end up leaving as Seniors anyways. I think they should work with Elite II and make Elite 1 Jrs/Srs and Elite II Jrs/Sophs/Freshmen.

Mitch Hawker
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Post by Mitch Hawker » Tue Nov 04, 2008 10:02 am

I haven't been to a game this year and haven't been to the Elite League tournaments in quite a few years, but...

It seemed to me that the tournaments were heavily scouted and the level of play was very good.

I don't have any numbers to back up how many kids are getting scholarships any sooner/later vs those that opt for Juniors before graduation but I would advise staying at your school and playing in the Elite League in the fall in almost all cases.

I voted 'Mostly', my recommendations:

-Making changes in order to keep more seniors from leaving their HS.

-Enough with the two All Star teams. Have all Elite League teams in the "National Tournament"...let all of the kids be scouted, and scouted playing with teammates and systems they have played with before.

Invite nine of the best midget teams to fill out a 16 team bracket. All teams play 4 games (1 Fri, 2 Sat, 1 Sun)...As it is now the scouts have a lot of down time if they want to stay for more than one night of games. The teams have been playing two games on Saturday all fall.
Last edited by Mitch Hawker on Mon Nov 10, 2008 12:14 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Can't Never Tried
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Post by Can't Never Tried » Tue Nov 04, 2008 10:07 am

My thought on this is... it's a great opportunity to stay home, play an extra 25 games instead of running to Jr's.
But i think in some ways it's self defeating because you have such in influx of under classmen playing.(no question in most cases they are very good and deserving to play in the league.)
So it would be interesting to see how many of these 10th and 11th graders stay in HS or use the exposure they receive to fore go the Sr or even Jr year to head off to Jr's anyway.

Outside of that it is a high quality league very fun to watch, and you get to see a ton of very talented young men playing all in one location over a weekend.

Anyone at New Hope last weekend would have seen an unbelievable # of scouts from every level.

I say somewhat to the poll!

pioneers
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Post by pioneers » Tue Nov 04, 2008 10:12 am

I have been to a lot of Elite league games over the last couple of years. I feel the level of play is very good. I am not sure that I like some of the Junior league rules that are used and the officiating is not always the best as they use some officials that are being assessed for the future. There are a lot of scouts throughout the entire season, which is good for the league. Here is a link to a listing of the players from this year that went in the futures draft. Second only in number to midget AAA.

http://hselite.pucksystems.com/attachme ... _10.17.pdf
Pioneers 1983, 1991 and 2008 State Champions

Spellchecker
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Post by Spellchecker » Tue Nov 04, 2008 2:36 pm

pioneers wrote:I have been to a lot of Elite league games over the last couple of years. I feel the level of play is very good. I am not sure that I like some of the Junior league rules that are used and the officiating is not always the best as they use some officials that are being assessed for the future. There are a lot of scouts throughout the entire season, which is good for the league. Here is a link to a listing of the players from this year that went in the futures draft. Second only in number to midget AAA.

http://hselite.pucksystems.com/attachme ... _10.17.pdf
It is managed like the Soviet Union. Other than that it serves a purpose.

hockeyboys
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Post by hockeyboys » Tue Nov 04, 2008 2:47 pm

Agree with Pucknutz.

Originally this was supposed to be for a few juniors and the seniors. It has turned into being for players with the best potential - true these are potentially DI players - but in reality - they are not better than the older players - just better as sophomores than the seniors were at that age. They have a greater upside than the seniors not taken for the league. So many more sophomores than should be playing and far too many juniors. These players wouldn't be leaving for Juniors anyway - so having them in the league automatically negates one of the specific goals of the league.

I believe many have advocated a league for the top sophs and juniors, to be done in conjunction with the elite league. Although this does open up an entirely new can of worms (sounds like this harkens back to Association Hockey...) But - it is still the best idea we have heard. And - the younger players can get in some tournaments at the Major Midget AAA national level - that would do more to develop these players for the future than playing in the elite league with much older players. And it would get national exposure to many more Minnesota players at a younger age.

elliott70
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Post by elliott70 » Tue Nov 04, 2008 2:56 pm

hockeyboys wrote:Agree with Pucknutz.

Originally this was supposed to be for a few juniors and the seniors. It has turned into being for players with the best potential - true these are potentially DI players - but in reality - they are not better than the older players - just better as sophomores than the seniors were at that age. They have a greater upside than the seniors not taken for the league. So many more sophomores than should be playing and far too many juniors. These players wouldn't be leaving for Juniors anyway - so having them in the league automatically negates one of the specific goals of the league.

I believe many have advocated a league for the top sophs and juniors, to be done in conjunction with the elite league. Although this does open up an entirely new can of worms (sounds like this harkens back to Association Hockey...) But - it is still the best idea we have heard. And - the younger players can get in some tournaments at the Major Midget AAA national level - that would do more to develop these players for the future than playing in the elite league with much older players. And it would get national exposure to many more Minnesota players at a younger age.
Originally, this was to be for the top 110 non-bantam eligible players in Minnesota and add a WI and ND team and some other outside competition.

mngopherfan
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Post by mngopherfan » Tue Nov 04, 2008 2:57 pm

hockeyboys wrote:Agree with Pucknutz.

Originally this was supposed to be for a few juniors and the seniors. It has turned into being for players with the best potential - true these are potentially DI players - but in reality - they are not better than the older players - just better as sophomores than the seniors were at that age. They have a greater upside than the seniors not taken for the league. So many more sophomores than should be playing and far too many juniors. These players wouldn't be leaving for Juniors anyway - so having them in the league automatically negates one of the specific goals of the league.

I believe many have advocated a league for the top sophs and juniors, to be done in conjunction with the elite league. Although this does open up an entirely new can of worms (sounds like this harkens back to Association Hockey...) But - it is still the best idea we have heard. And - the younger players can get in some tournaments at the Major Midget AAA national level - that would do more to develop these players for the future than playing in the elite league with much older players. And it would get national exposure to many more Minnesota players at a younger age.
Not 100% true. Travis Boyd was passed over this season, he's a 9th grader who put up more points than many many upperclassmen last year.

Can't Never Tried
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Post by Can't Never Tried » Tue Nov 04, 2008 3:05 pm

elliott70 wrote:
hockeyboys wrote:Agree with Pucknutz.

Originally this was supposed to be for a few juniors and the seniors. It has turned into being for players with the best potential - true these are potentially DI players - but in reality - they are not better than the older players - just better as sophomores than the seniors were at that age. They have a greater upside than the seniors not taken for the league. So many more sophomores than should be playing and far too many juniors. These players wouldn't be leaving for Juniors anyway - so having them in the league automatically negates one of the specific goals of the league.

I believe many have advocated a league for the top sophs and juniors, to be done in conjunction with the elite league. Although this does open up an entirely new can of worms (sounds like this harkens back to Association Hockey...) But - it is still the best idea we have heard. And - the younger players can get in some tournaments at the Major Midget AAA national level - that would do more to develop these players for the future than playing in the elite league with much older players. And it would get national exposure to many more Minnesota players at a younger age.
Originally, this was to be for the top 110 non-bantam eligible players in Minnesota and add a WI and ND team and some other outside competition.
That is true...and Russo will even say it's the intended to get the top 110+ players in and he doesn't care who they are..is it perfect? no... but what in this sport has ever been perfect.
I do believe there is some back scratching going on.. but that's life and better learn to deal with it! 8)

flatontheice
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Post by flatontheice » Tue Nov 04, 2008 3:34 pm

elliott70 wrote:
hockeyboys wrote:Agree with Pucknutz.

Originally this was supposed to be for a few juniors and the seniors. It has turned into being for players with the best potential - true these are potentially DI players - but in reality - they are not better than the older players - just better as sophomores than the seniors were at that age. They have a greater upside than the seniors not taken for the league. So many more sophomores than should be playing and far too many juniors. These players wouldn't be leaving for Juniors anyway - so having them in the league automatically negates one of the specific goals of the league.

I believe many have advocated a league for the top sophs and juniors, to be done in conjunction with the elite league. Although this does open up an entirely new can of worms (sounds like this harkens back to Association Hockey...) But - it is still the best idea we have heard. And - the younger players can get in some tournaments at the Major Midget AAA national level - that would do more to develop these players for the future than playing in the elite league with much older players. And it would get national exposure to many more Minnesota players at a younger age.
Originally, this was to be for the top 110 non-bantam eligible players in Minnesota and add a WI and ND team and some other outside competition.
Elliot: That is not true. It was sold to Minnesota Hockey and the coaches association as a league for the best 100 upper classmen (Juniors/Seniors) in order to prevent them from leaving for Juniors early. it was shortly after the high school association voted down increasing the amount of games in the High School Season. When Russo took over he made it what HE wanted it to be and started adding all the younger players and making up his own rules.

elliott70
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Post by elliott70 » Tue Nov 04, 2008 3:54 pm

flatontheice wrote:
elliott70 wrote:
hockeyboys wrote:Agree with Pucknutz.

Originally this was supposed to be for a few juniors and the seniors. It has turned into being for players with the best potential - true these are potentially DI players - but in reality - they are not better than the older players - just better as sophomores than the seniors were at that age. They have a greater upside than the seniors not taken for the league. So many more sophomores than should be playing and far too many juniors. These players wouldn't be leaving for Juniors anyway - so having them in the league automatically negates one of the specific goals of the league.

I believe many have advocated a league for the top sophs and juniors, to be done in conjunction with the elite league. Although this does open up an entirely new can of worms (sounds like this harkens back to Association Hockey...) But - it is still the best idea we have heard. And - the younger players can get in some tournaments at the Major Midget AAA national level - that would do more to develop these players for the future than playing in the elite league with much older players. And it would get national exposure to many more Minnesota players at a younger age.
Originally, this was to be for the top 110 non-bantam eligible players in Minnesota and add a WI and ND team and some other outside competition.
Elliot: That is not true. It was sold to Minnesota Hockey and the coaches association as a league for the best 100 upper classmen (Juniors/Seniors) in order to prevent them from leaving for Juniors early. it was shortly after the high school association voted down increasing the amount of games in the High School Season. When Russo took over he made it what HE wanted it to be and started adding all the younger players and making up his own rules.
Yes, it is true. I was in the room for all (95%) of the discussions and was there when MH voted to allow it.
It was assumed that most would be upperclassman, but it was mandated that no bantam eligible players would be allowed (exceptin, if they had played varsity HS the year before and were 9th graders theycoudl be considered). Russo did and has since stated that it was for the best players. There system is not perfect but it is good. A lot of information is shared and they will listen to all properly presented pitches for some player.
I was there for all of project prep and when it was transferred over to the elite league.
Russo was given a large amount of rope to prove that he could run a quality program or hang himself in the prosess.
But he does not select the plaers alone or in a vacuum.
Are they always right? Of course not. Who is?
(Well, besides me.)
:D

packerboy
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Post by packerboy » Tue Nov 04, 2008 4:11 pm

Whatever its purpose, all the league can do is help develop players.

It cant turn back the tide of players leavng early and hasnt. I dont know anybody who seriously thought that it would. If a player is considering leaving high school for juniors, why would the presence of an Elite league stop him? 25 games in the Fall. That's great but it's not Juniors.

We used to have 2 Fall Leagues around the metro. One had top Varsity type players and the other had Varsity/ JV types.

Is Elite I & II that big an upgrade?

There are a lot of scouts there. That's great but if this is an elite league, its not like nobody ever heard of the kids.

Its fine to have these Elite leagues but I dont know how they can be anything much more than a nice supplement to what we have for the MN player.

Can't Never Tried
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Post by Can't Never Tried » Tue Nov 04, 2008 5:14 pm

packerboy wrote:Whatever its purpose, all the league can do is help develop players.

It cant turn back the tide of players leavng early and hasnt. I dont know anybody who seriously thought that it would. If a player is considering leaving high school for juniors, why would the presence of an Elite league stop him? 25 games in the Fall. That's great but it's not Juniors.

We used to have 2 Fall Leagues around the metro. One had top Varsity type players and the other had Varsity/ JV types.

Is Elite I & II that big an upgrade?

There are a lot of scouts there. That's great but if this is an elite league, its not like nobody ever heard of the kids.

Its fine to have these Elite leagues but I dont know how they can be anything much more than a nice supplement to what we have for the MN player.
That is part of the concept.
I think the point some people, or at least myself try to make, is that there is a lot, and I mean a lot of exposure in this league, so if a Jr or Soph gets that exposure the likelyhood of more pressure being put on to go to the next level is multiplied, thus defeating the intention to stay in High school.
Where as a Sr is going anyway....Don't matter so much to me, I like to watch the best hockey so age doesn't bug me as much as some....I'd rather see the best talent playing regardless. 8)

flatontheice
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Post by flatontheice » Tue Nov 04, 2008 7:39 pm

elliott70 wrote:
flatontheice wrote:
elliott70 wrote:
hockeyboys wrote:Agree with Pucknutz.

Originally this was supposed to be for a few juniors and the seniors. It has turned into being for players with the best potential - true these are potentially DI players - but in reality - they are not better than the older players - just better as sophomores than the seniors were at that age. They have a greater upside than the seniors not taken for the league. So many more sophomores than should be playing and far too many juniors. These players wouldn't be leaving for Juniors anyway - so having them in the league automatically negates one of the specific goals of the league.

I believe many have advocated a league for the top sophs and juniors, to be done in conjunction with the elite league. Although this does open up an entirely new can of worms (sounds like this harkens back to Association Hockey...) But - it is still the best idea we have heard. And - the younger players can get in some tournaments at the Major Midget AAA national level - that would do more to develop these players for the future than playing in the elite league with much older players. And it would get national exposure to many more Minnesota players at a younger age.
Originally, this was to be for the top 110 non-bantam eligible players in Minnesota and add a WI and ND team and some other outside competition.
Elliot: That is not true. It was sold to Minnesota Hockey and the coaches association as a league for the best 100 upper classmen (Juniors/Seniors) in order to prevent them from leaving for Juniors early. it was shortly after the high school association voted down increasing the amount of games in the High School Season. When Russo took over he made it what HE wanted it to be and started adding all the younger players and making up his own rules.
Yes, it is true. I was in the room for all (95%) of the discussions and was there when MH voted to allow it.
It was assumed that most would be upperclassman, but it was mandated that no bantam eligible players would be allowed (exceptin, if they had played varsity HS the year before and were 9th graders theycoudl be considered). Russo did and has since stated that it was for the best players. There system is not perfect but it is good. A lot of information is shared and they will listen to all properly presented pitches for some player.
I was there for all of project prep and when it was transferred over to the elite league.
Russo was given a large amount of rope to prove that he could run a quality program or hang himself in the prosess.
But he does not select the plaers alone or in a vacuum.
Are they always right? Of course not. Who is?
(Well, besides me.)
:D
Fair enough. We will have to agree to disagree. My main point is that there are kids this year that are glaring examples of the politics involved with the selection process and there are more of those this year than in years past. I think the league serves a great purpose but I think it needs to be reeled in a little as it is getting more diluted every year. The rope has gotten too loose.

Doglover
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Post by Doglover » Wed Nov 05, 2008 12:55 am

Tighten the rope!

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