3-6 minute shift- stay on the subject

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fffhockey
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3-6 minute shift- stay on the subject

Post by fffhockey » Mon Feb 02, 2009 2:23 pm

Does anyone know of any coaches besides Mounds View who do this ?
This is just killing their chances and getting worse since 2009 began.
Players, coaches or anyone from different schools, please let us know what the average shift is or should be.

Elvis
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Post by Elvis » Mon Feb 02, 2009 2:42 pm

Forwards or defensemen?

parent2
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Post by parent2 » Mon Feb 02, 2009 7:52 pm

Mostly defense, not so much with the forwards. You don't even see that in the NHL. I wish some other coaches or players would give some input on this.

waylon
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Long Shifts

Post by waylon » Mon Feb 02, 2009 8:17 pm

Go watch a Burnsville game!Or better yet see if you can't get a copy of last years section final game against Edina,maybe if a couple players would have had oxygen tanks they would have pulled it off,They were outcoached!!!!!!!The good old boy's Club, I suppose will get me back for this take<I take that back they allready have!
________
LORATAB REHAB FORUM
Last edited by waylon on Sat Feb 19, 2011 8:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

minnhockclub
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Post by minnhockclub » Mon Feb 02, 2009 10:30 pm

I have coached for over 25 years. It is a proven study that any player who skates hard for over 45 seconds can never recover completly. Defense are able to skate a little longer due to the nature of the postion but not much longer if you are working hard. If you see all training programs the drills do not typically go longer the 20 second at full speed because after that the return is diminished.

SEMinnHockeyNut
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Post by SEMinnHockeyNut » Tue Feb 03, 2009 2:44 am

it is true that a guy cannot go hard for more than 45 seconds or so
However there are ways can conserve energy especially when there are whistles

All I can think of is Larry Olimb. The guy played almost the entire game.

I remember watching a Mayo-Century game about 6 years ago and Scott Thauwald and Andrew Gastineau never left the ice during the OT. Thauwald scored the game-winner on an unreal rush to win it with about 30 seconds left in OT, so about a 7:30 shift!

I think sometimes it comes down to the fact that your bests guys at 80% are better than your other guys when rested.

I also remember the Mayo-Moorhead semi-final in 1995 - both teams played their top lines all night.
MAYO SPARTANS!

parent2
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Post by parent2 » Tue Feb 03, 2009 9:29 am

Thanks coach of 25 years for your input. The more this logic has been used the worse the team plays. We have only won 1 game in the past month. The best at 80% might work if there were some superstars here. The coaches 'best' powerplay get scored on. And then they remain on the ice for a few more shifts. I think some players are starting to feel that poor play is rewarded here. Blame seemed to be the game at White Bear game.

irwin fletcher
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Post by irwin fletcher » Tue Feb 03, 2009 1:23 pm

If you are a defenseman, it is possible to take 3-6 minute shifts especially if you are on power play. It is much easier to conserve energy at the defense position. In the recent past Apple Valley's David Fisher and Mike Lundin averaged 35-40 minutes a game (and Medvec also got a ton of minutes) throughout the entire season. It shows a lack of depth on defense for those Apple Valley teams, but it also shows it can be done.

1parent
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Post by 1parent » Tue Feb 03, 2009 1:44 pm

So it looks like MV isn't the only team that this happens too. Some people just need to stop looking for every little thing to get upset about.

Anyone can support a team that is winning - it takes no courage. But to stand behind a team to defend a team when it is down and really needs you, that takes a lot of courage.
-- Bart Starr

buzzershot
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Post by buzzershot » Tue Feb 03, 2009 1:46 pm

If you are skating hard, back checking and fore checking...being a total package player...45 sec max. get off the ice for fresh legs.

Elvis
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Post by Elvis » Tue Feb 03, 2009 2:14 pm

A good, smart, disciplined defensive-defenseman playing on a smart, disciplined team could pull this off easily. I would guess that more than half of the high school teams out there have at least one defenseman playing 35 minutes/game or more. It would be impossible for a forward to do this unless he doesn't play in the defensive zone. I think the question you have to ask yourself is whether or not the alternative is better? Is the tired defenseman still better than whoever else is coming in for him?

sn1per
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Post by sn1per » Tue Feb 03, 2009 5:08 pm

I would say that the length of shifts is partially dictated by the youth coaches...

Too many youth coaches think their job is about winning. It's not, it's about teaching, and preparing the kids for high school and beyond(both on and off the ice). They play to win, and more often than not, they do not develop any depth. Youth coaches should consistently roll 3 lines throughout the game, as well as forcing players to go hard for 45 seconds or less, and get off the ice(Can be done.) If the talent is there, the winning will take care of itself, and the development will be there for more than just the few top players.

If the youth coaches would do their jobs, I think that would eliminate 90% of the problem of having players staying on the ice for 3-6 minutes. The HS Coach always has control of how long his players stay on the ice(or off the ice), but he has the pressure to win so his decisions are influence by what he has. And since the youth coaches didn't develop the depth needed to roll the lines at the HS Level the coach will play his best players at 80% because them at 80% are better than his next line at 100%.

oldtimehockeyguy
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Post by oldtimehockeyguy » Tue Feb 03, 2009 11:22 pm

Hey everyone, the sad thing about this subject is that some justify playing long shifts. If a player is able to play a 2 minute shift he is not hustling a great deal. If a player extends theirself for over 45 seconds they NEVER recover completely the rest of the game. This has been a fact since hockey began. Can a De lof and extend a shift to 5 minutes sure. But to what result.
Give the team the opportunity to surprise you with out running players for 5 minute shifts. Teams that run 2 lines and 4 defense the hole year are never successful. Check out MV's shot total from 1st to 3rd. Also look at goals against by periobd.
The kids are gased. This is another reason they loose 80% of OT games, too tired.

wiseguy
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Post by wiseguy » Wed Feb 04, 2009 8:30 am

oldtimehockeyguy wrote:Hey everyone, the sad thing about this subject is that some justify playing long shifts. If a player is able to play a 2 minute shift he is not hustling a great deal. If a player extends theirself for over 45 seconds they NEVER recover completely the rest of the game. This has been a fact since hockey began. Can a De lof and extend a shift to 5 minutes sure. But to what result.
Give the team the opportunity to surprise you with out running players for 5 minute shifts. Teams that run 2 lines and 4 defense the hole year are never successful. Check out MV's shot total from 1st to 3rd. Also look at goals against by periobd.
The kids are gased. This is another reason they loose 80% of OT games, too tired.
First what is successful to you W-L? Not sure if you actually know the stats or not but you might want to check into those a bit. On pointstreak it looks like 14 of the 20 games they had more shots in the 2nd or 3rd than in the first. Shots on goal are sometimes misleading I like to look at quality/scoring chances.

ice hacker
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Post by ice hacker » Wed Feb 04, 2009 11:12 am

The same thing is happening in Alexandria. At the beging of the year it wasnt but now it is and we just arent playing as well. The second and third line do a better job at taking short shifts but the top line is out there way to long and they are tired and gassed. Its showing on the scored board. We need that top lline for scoring and they just arent doing it because they are just to gassed.

parent2
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Post by parent2 » Wed Feb 04, 2009 1:25 pm

If the long shifts were working for the benefit of the team, this discussion would not be taking place. Do you really believe that the quality of scoring chances are what this game is all about? Is someone keeping track of these? While winning is not the only thing that matters, I think most of the players want that. Will our players fondly reminisce over all of those quality chances in the off-season? I doubt it. Maybe I'm wrong on that. Play and coach to win at every game.
1)PASS THE PUCK
2) SKATE HARD UP & DOWN THE ICE (if you are out of gas and can't skate at 100 % get off the ice and rest for your next shift)
3) SHOOT THE PUCK- OFTEN (doesn't need to be picture perfect, it won't be on Sportscenter and even ugly,lucky or funky ones count as a goal. Who knows maybe a call will even go our way on one of those sometime this year)
4) SCORE GOALS
5) DON'T PLAY THE BLAME GAME- nobody wins at that game. It just breeds more ugliness. Just try twice as hard next time you are on the ice.

wiseguy
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Post by wiseguy » Wed Feb 04, 2009 1:41 pm

parent2 wrote:If the long shifts were working for the benefit of the team, this discussion would not be taking place. Do you really believe that the quality of scoring chances are what this game is all about? Is someone keeping track of these? While winning is not the only thing that matters, I think most of the players want that. Will our players fondly reminisce over all of those quality chances in the off-season? I doubt it. Maybe I'm wrong on that. Play and coach to win at every game.
1)PASS THE PUCK
2) SKATE HARD UP & DOWN THE ICE (if you are out of gas and can't skate at 100 % get off the ice and rest for your next shift)
3) SHOOT THE PUCK- OFTEN (doesn't need to be picture perfect, it won't be on Sportscenter and even ugly,lucky or funky ones count as a goal. Who knows maybe a call will even go our way on one of those sometime this year)
4) SCORE GOALS
5) DON'T PLAY THE BLAME GAME- nobody wins at that game. It just breeds more ugliness. Just try twice as hard next time you are on the ice.
Your buddy in this made a statement about the shots on net getting lower from the 1st period to the 3rd and I just showed some stats from pointstreak. Where did I say the game is only about scoring chances? My point was don't get caught up in how many shots do or don't get put on net, also take a look at the quality scoring chances. You say DON'T PLAY THE BLAME GAME but aren't a few of you doing just that, Your blaming the coach. I agree with you when you say play and coach to win every game. Maybe I need to get out to more games but I'd be shocked if one of the goals for every game isn't to win and if not something is wrong. Done arguing over this situation as it doesn't help build the program for those players that might see it. I guess we will wait to see what happens in the off season. Best of luck to all over at MV.

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