Breck Wins State Again - Will they move to AA/

[F14]

I have seen Breck play three times this year and I know they lost to STA, but if they defend their A title (They returned 20 of 22 letterwinners from last year), they are LIGHTNING fast and super skilled. In addition there JV has many freshmen who were stars as first year Bantam A's as 8th graders last year.


They play Orono in the semi's on Tuesday, and they defeated them 13-1 earlier this year. They won 15 games so far.


If they win again, it will be there

4th title in A in 10 years

Is there a groundswell amongst alumni, coaches, fans to move up to AA like Benilde, Holy Angels, Hill Murray have?

Anyone know what they are thinking long term? There girls program is good as well.

Thoughts anyone?

[BigWorm]

I think they should, what section would they be put into for AA?

[Just_Another_Fan]

I think they should as well. They consistently have great talent year after year. They have two losses this season, one to Shattuck and one to STA. STA has AA talent and Breck only lost by one. They have a great girls program as well that would do just fine at the AA level. The boys have beat pretty much every team they have faced soundly.


More power to them if they step up and play with the big boys.


IF this happened the logical choice would be to put them in 2AA or 6AA. With all the powerhouse hockey programs in those sections i could see them possibly playing in 1AA but that is just a thought with no real research behind it.

[nipeshow18]

I think they should as well. They consistently have great talent year after year. They have two losses this season, one to Shattuck and one to STA. STA has AA talent and Breck only lost by one. They have a great girls program as well that would do just fine at the AA level. The boys have beat pretty much every team they have faced soundly.


More power to them if they step up and play with the big boys.


IF this happened the logical choice would be to put them in 2AA or 6AA. With all the powerhouse hockey programs in those sections i could see them possibly playing in 1AA but that is just a thought with no real research behind it.

I think that if STA and/or Breck move up it will make it easier to slide a new team into 1AA. My thought has always been Apple Valley, Eastview, Rosemount or even Eagan. They are both right by Lakeville and Farmington, so to me those would be the logical choices. But who knows what, if anything will actually happen.

[Just_Another_Fan]

While i have no intention of turning this into a STA or class A bashing topic i think the better question is who moves up first? STA or Breck?

[nipeshow18]

To my above post, I meant to throw Burnsville in there as well.

As to your last question, I think it is anybody's guess. I would have thought STA would have been up by now after their large run of success they have had the last several years. Hopefully one of them wins it and decides it is time to prove their worth against the big schools. Time will tell.

[BigWorm]

I think if they move up and are put in 1AA it would be good for the state tournament, no knock on section 1 though, Century did pretty good a couple years ago. But Breck would make that section more competitive in St. Paul IMO. I also think the only way either team would move up is if they were put in section 1.

[Zamman]

As a huge supporter of a private school, I feel that all private schools should be AA only because they pull their kids from all over. But, as a realist I realize that teams like Breck and STA will not step up. Join us in the big tournament then get your bragging hats on. PLay at the X in front of thousands instead of 100's.
It is not the kids or the parents, but the coaches and the schools.

[blueblood]

Amen Z.

[hockeyfan893]

At least to me, it seems as if St Thomas gets the most flack for not moving up, however Breck, at least numerically, has been the more successful of the two schools in the past decade. Breck won state in 2000, 2004, and 2009, whereas St Thomas won state in 2006, and 2008.

My personal opinion is that they should play up in AA. They're obviously both very talented teams with very good programs that can compete with top AA programs. There's no reason why they shouldn't be playing up in AA when schools like Holy Angels, and Hill-Murray (who St. Thomas beat this year) are playing up.

Until schools like Breck and St Thomas move up, there will always be a mental asterisk placed by their accomplishments, no matter how good their programs are.

[starmvp]

Basically what Zam said...

Breck will not be very strong next year either....

[saucepass]

St Thomas has the #'s and should step up!

Breck is on the fence. They have 400 students 9-12 and say half are boys
and out of the 200 potential boys, you will be lucky to have 35 hockey players!

Over the past 10 years they have had 2-3 teams that could have made the AA dance and done some damage. Last year they beat 3 teams that made AA tourney.They will have years that they don't have the players and will not have a shot of making tourney. I believe it is those years that scare them away from going AA, as potential players may see those years performances before deciding where to go and will not want to play on a team that is not winning. Hence, they will have a hard time getting the #'s up to have a team that will make the AA tourney.

[HShockeywatcher]

At least to me, it seems as if St Thomas gets the most flack for not moving up, however Breck, at least numerically, has been the more successful of the two schools in the past decade. Breck won state in 2000, 2004, and 2009, whereas St Thomas won state in 2006, and 2008.

My personal opinion is that they should play up in AA. They're obviously both very talented teams with very good programs that can compete with top AA programs. There's no reason why they shouldn't be playing up in AA when schools like Holy Angels, and Hill-Murray (who St. Thomas beat this year) are playing up.

Until schools like Breck and St Thomas move up, there will always be a mental asterisk placed by their accomplishments, no matter how good their programs are.

I won't rant like I usually do. It's a class system like all other states all around the country, not a tier system like in college. Many states I've heard of don't allow opt ups.

The biggest issue in my mind is diminishing the smaller class. Say all of the smaller schools you've had success historically opted up, a semi-good, above average, small school could win state and have proven nothing.

The ONLY thing your class has to do with is your section and the state tournament. A team like Roseau is AA but plays a Class A schedule. Teams like St Thomas are A but play tougher schedules than most in the state. In an average year, if many Class A schools were undefeated, they play a tough enough schedule to be considered the top team in the state.

The other thing you have a lot of in AA (like in 6AA) this year, is a couple top teams in the same section, but only one goes on. As a St Thomas alumnus, in a year Hill Murray is better, I'd prefer to see the Cadets play 3 extra games instead of losing to a top team in state in sections.

It all comes down to respect, which many hockey fans seem not to have.

[Northsider]

Move Up? Why? They can go to state and play at the X every year, or they can get their butts handed to them by Minnetonka, EP, Wayzata, or Benilde every year in the section quarterfinals. I'm not a fan of Breck and think they should move up, but I see no advantage for them to do so.

In my idle situation, all these schools should be moved up:
-Breck
-Blake
-SC Cathedral
-Warroad
-Duluth Marshall
-Roch Lourdes
-St Thomas
-Hibbing
-Virginia
-Hermantown
-Mahtomedi
-Totino Grace
-South St Paul
-Thief River Falls
-International Falls
-Hutchinson

Each of these 16 schools are capable of putting out decent teams every few years and would make sections even more exciting, create some good rivalries, and remove all dispute over who exactly the best team is. Also, it would allow for 7AA to be all non-metro teams, would make 1AA much stronger, and would stop privates from dominating the lower class. That's all.

[fivehole628]

Move Up? Why? They can go to state and play at the X every year, or they can get their butts handed to them by Minnetonka, EP, Wayzata, or Benilde every year in the section quarterfinals. I'm not a fan of Breck and think they should move up, but I see no advantage for them to do so.

In my idle situation, all these schools should be moved up:
-Breck
-Blake
-SC Cathedral
-Warroad
-Duluth Marshall
-Roch Lourdes
-St Thomas
-Hibbing
-Virginia
-Hermantown
-Mahtomedi
-Totino Grace
-South St Paul
-Thief River Falls
-International Falls
-Hutchinson

Each of these 16 schools are capable of putting out decent teams every few years and would make sections even more exciting, create some good rivalries, and remove all dispute over who exactly the best team is. Also, it would allow for 7AA to be all non-metro teams, would make 1AA much stronger, and would stop privates from dominating the lower class. That's all.

This is a joke right? The only teams from your list that should be moved up are Breck, STA, Mahtomedi and maybe South St. Paul... Hutchinson? Seriously...?

[nipeshow18]

Move Up? Why? They can go to state and play at the X every year, or they can get their butts handed to them by Minnetonka, EP, Wayzata, or Benilde every year in the section quarterfinals. I'm not a fan of Breck and think they should move up, but I see no advantage for them to do so.

In my idle situation, all these schools should be moved up:
-Breck
-Blake
-SC Cathedral
-Warroad
-Duluth Marshall
-Roch Lourdes
-St Thomas
-Hibbing
-Virginia
-Hermantown
-Mahtomedi
-Totino Grace
-South St Paul
-Thief River Falls
-International Falls
-Hutchinson

Each of these 16 schools are capable of putting out decent teams every few years and would make sections even more exciting, create some good rivalries, and remove all dispute over who exactly the best team is. Also, it would allow for 7AA to be all non-metro teams, would make 1AA much stronger, and would stop privates from dominating the lower class. That's all.

This is a joke right? The only teams from your list that should be moved up are Breck, STA, Mahtomedi and maybe South St. Paul... Hutchinson? Seriously...?

I even disagree with you on Mahtomedi. I would say Hermantown should opt up before them. And Hutchinson needs to stay in A. They are an average A team at best. I think they were nearly last in the Missota?

[defense]

Move Up? Why? They can go to state and play at the X every year, or they can get their butts handed to them by Minnetonka, EP, Wayzata, or Benilde every year in the section quarterfinals. I'm not a fan of Breck and think they should move up, but I see no advantage for them to do so.

In my idle situation, all these schools should be moved up:
-Breck
-Blake
-SC Cathedral
-Warroad
-Duluth Marshall
-Roch Lourdes
-St Thomas
-Hibbing
-Virginia
-Hermantown
-Mahtomedi
-Totino Grace
-South St Paul
-Thief River Falls
-International Falls
-Hutchinson

Each of these 16 schools are capable of putting out decent teams every few years and would make sections even more exciting, create some good rivalries, and remove all dispute over who exactly the best team is. Also, it would allow for 7AA to be all non-metro teams, would make 1AA much stronger, and would stop privates from dominating the lower class. That's all.

Or: Bemidji, DuLuth East, Grand Rapids, Cloquet, Roseau, Hill-Murray, Benidle-St.Margerates, Academy of Holy Angels...and any other team belonging in class A could move to class A. This would create or rejuvinate old rivalries. Then, the above mentioned teams could compete in an actual "state" tournement, not a metro tournement as it is now.
Or, the one I like the best: all class A teams should opt up. It is clear that most people liked the one class system, this takes the MSHSL out of it.

[MNHockey75]

SHOULD:
Breck - A top 20 school A/AA
Rochester Lourdes - Number of appearances will decrease, but they're a top 2 Rochester school every year.
St. Thomas Academy - A top 15 school A/AA
Warroad - As good or better than Roseau and Moorhead every year.
Thief River Falls - Tougher than 8A, but Warroad has their number.
South St. Paul - Been there before. They should be AA.

We'll see in a few years how Hermantown, D. Marshall, SCC, Mahtomedi, Totino, Blake, etc. are doing. My guess is some of these private schools will start to stuggle in 5-10 years.

Northern schools like IFalls and Virginia just don't have the numbers. Yes, I know Cloquet is in the same boat but they could end up in class A some years down the road. Just look at Greenway.

[joycer10]

Teams that should move up in my mind

St. Thomas: always thought it was a joke that St. Thomas was Class A they maybe be a little lower in enrollment but it's an all boy school. long story short they probably have more boys then some of the AA schools

Breck: very good hockey program that I believe could definatley compete at the AA level

Lourdes: This team should move up because i think they could've had the best team in section 1AA multiple times in the couple of years

Warroad: If they moved section 8AA it would become an extremely fun section to watch. It would actualluy spice things up again and we wouldn't have to watch nothing but roseau moorhead finals for the the next decade.

[deacon]

Sigh. How many times is this argument going to come up? A lot of you seem to have really short memories. STA has only experienced success recently and didn't even make the state tournament last year.

[deacon]

http://www.cadets.com/page/365

As you can see, there are 695 in the upper and middle school. The middle school consists of 7th and 8th grade, which is probably ~150 students total. So that would make the upper school ~545 students in grades 9-12.

[bafata88]

They will never move up. I believe the folk there generally like the playing field tilted in their favor. I know this is a gross generalization, but having observed affluent highly educated succesful people off and on over the years, I see that they demand success for their children and are more than happy to enhance the likelihood of success when they can.

With regard to hockey specifically [and I'm not trying to take anything away from the hard work of many of those players who are wonderful kids], 50, 60, 70 points looks pretty good on the resume even when many of those points come against inferior opponents. They move up to AA and those point totals drop.

Or am I being too cynical here?

[deacon]

They will never move up. I believe the folk there generally like the playing field tilted in their favor. I know this is a gross generalization, but having observed affluent highly educated succesful people off and on over the years, I see that they demand success for their children and are more than happy to enhance the likelihood of success when they can.

With regard to hockey specifically [and I'm not trying to take anything away from the hard work of many of those players who are wonderful kids], 50, 60, 70 points looks pretty good on the resume even when many of those points come against inferior opponents. They move up to AA and those point totals drop.

Or am I being too cynical here?

No, you are just wrong with regards to STA. Look at their schedule.

[hockeyfan893]

Defense actually had a very interesting point.

Instead of saying schools like Breck, STA, and others should move, increasing the already substantial competition in AA, what if you didn't allow schools like Roseau, Hill-Murray, AHA, Benilde and the likes to move up, thus increasing the competition at the single A level?

Not saying this is how it should be done, but food for thought nonetheless.

[deacon]

Also,
Show me a parent who doesn't demand success and I'll most likely show you a bad parent. If that's too harsh for some of you, look at it this way; Why wouldn't a parent want their children to be successful? This, of course, has nothing to do with athletics either. I know for some of you this is really hard to comprehend, though.