Kind of a Raw Deal for a #1 Seed

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gamer19
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Kind of a Raw Deal for a #1 Seed

Post by gamer19 » Sat Mar 13, 2010 8:02 am

Does anybody else think the #1 seed is kind of getting a raw deal here. If teams are seeded shouldn't the #1 seed play the early game on Thursday and the early game on Friday and then have an opportunity for more rest? Isn't that one of the perks of being a #1 seed. Now Tonka has to come back on shorter amount of rest after playing in the 4 OT game, great game.

I am not a Tonka backer and I am sure it is all done for TV ratings, but I just think if you seed the teams, then give the team that earned the #1 seed the advantages of a #1 seed.

Just my thought.

Zamman
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Post by Zamman » Sat Mar 13, 2010 9:08 am

Number 1 deserves the spotlight, that is why they are on prime-time on Thursday. The idea here is the best should not be going to overtime on Friday. But because the number 4 seed, who should have been the 3 seed, was so much better it forced Tonka to have to fight and get the win instead of walk through and go home and sleep.
Great game and that is what the tournament is all about. Last night the right team won, by what the state wants but in reality the better team lost. But what a game.
Tonight should be another great game. I think Tonka wins this one in another barn burner.

woodley
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Re: Kind of a Raw Deal for a #1 Seed

Post by woodley » Sat Mar 13, 2010 9:35 am

gamer19 wrote:Does anybody else think the #1 seed is kind of getting a raw deal here. If teams are seeded shouldn't the #1 seed play the early game on Thursday and the early game on Friday and then have an opportunity for more rest? Isn't that one of the perks of being a #1 seed. Now Tonka has to come back on shorter amount of rest after playing in the 4 OT game, great game.

I am not a Tonka backer and I am sure it is all done for TV ratings, but I just think if you seed the teams, then give the team that earned the #1 seed the advantages of a #1 seed.

Just my thought.
It's kind of ironic. . . if your scenario were played out, the #1 would actually have had less rest. The game would have been called after the third overtime and continued on Saturday morning at 8:00 am per the MSHSL rules. This would have resulted in them playing twice today.. . so maybe the #1 seed gets a benefit by being in the last game.

wbmd
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Re: Kind of a Raw Deal for a #1 Seed

Post by wbmd » Sat Mar 13, 2010 9:38 am

gamer19 wrote:Does anybody else think the #1 seed is kind of getting a raw deal here. If teams are seeded shouldn't the #1 seed play the early game on Thursday and the early game on Friday and then have an opportunity for more rest? Isn't that one of the perks of being a #1 seed. Now Tonka has to come back on shorter amount of rest after playing in the 4 OT game, great game.

I am not a Tonka backer and I am sure it is all done for TV ratings, but I just think if you seed the teams, then give the team that earned the #1 seed the advantages of a #1 seed.

Just my thought.
I totally agree

HShockeywatcher
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Re: Kind of a Raw Deal for a #1 Seed

Post by HShockeywatcher » Sat Mar 13, 2010 3:17 pm

woodley wrote:
gamer19 wrote:Does anybody else think the #1 seed is kind of getting a raw deal here. If teams are seeded shouldn't the #1 seed play the early game on Thursday and the early game on Friday and then have an opportunity for more rest? Isn't that one of the perks of being a #1 seed. Now Tonka has to come back on shorter amount of rest after playing in the 4 OT game, great game.

I am not a Tonka backer and I am sure it is all done for TV ratings, but I just think if you seed the teams, then give the team that earned the #1 seed the advantages of a #1 seed.

Just my thought.
It's kind of ironic. . . if your scenario were played out, the #1 would actually have had less rest. The game would have been called after the third overtime and continued on Saturday morning at 8:00 am per the MSHSL rules. This would have resulted in them playing twice today.. . so maybe the #1 seed gets a benefit by being in the last game.
Imo, what you're saying is a justification for changing the OT rule, not going against what gamer 19 is saying.

gamer19 is right. There is no "spotlight" because you are playing at night. All of the games sell out, all of the games are on TV. Top seed should have every advantage. Rules should be made for teams, not TV coverage.

warriors41
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Re: Kind of a Raw Deal for a #1 Seed

Post by warriors41 » Sat Mar 13, 2010 3:46 pm

gamer19 wrote:Does anybody else think the #1 seed is kind of getting a raw deal here. If teams are seeded shouldn't the #1 seed play the early game on Thursday and the early game on Friday and then have an opportunity for more rest? Isn't that one of the perks of being a #1 seed. Now Tonka has to come back on shorter amount of rest after playing in the 4 OT game, great game.

I am not a Tonka backer and I am sure it is all done for TV ratings, but I just think if you seed the teams, then give the team that earned the #1 seed the advantages of a #1 seed.

Just my thought.
Win in regulation. Problem solved. Its just how things worked out. They still get rest because they play i the night game tonight. If the AA championship was at noon you might have a point but they play at night.

Goldfishdude
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Re: Kind of a Raw Deal for a #1 Seed

Post by Goldfishdude » Sat Mar 13, 2010 3:54 pm

HShockeywatcher wrote:
woodley wrote:
gamer19 wrote:Does anybody else think the #1 seed is kind of getting a raw deal here. If teams are seeded shouldn't the #1 seed play the early game on Thursday and the early game on Friday and then have an opportunity for more rest? Isn't that one of the perks of being a #1 seed. Now Tonka has to come back on shorter amount of rest after playing in the 4 OT game, great game.

I am not a Tonka backer and I am sure it is all done for TV ratings, but I just think if you seed the teams, then give the team that earned the #1 seed the advantages of a #1 seed.

Just my thought.
It's kind of ironic. . . if your scenario were played out, the #1 would actually have had less rest. The game would have been called after the third overtime and continued on Saturday morning at 8:00 am per the MSHSL rules. This would have resulted in them playing twice today.. . so maybe the #1 seed gets a benefit by being in the last game.
Imo, what you're saying is a justification for changing the OT rule, not going against what gamer 19 is saying.

gamer19 is right. There is no "spotlight" because you are playing at night. All of the games sell out, all of the games are on TV. Top seed should have every advantage. Rules should be made for teams, not TV coverage.
The fatal flaw is that it's called "PrimeTime" television.... that means more people are accessible to watch the games creating a bigger audience, because of normal 9-5 jobs and kids in school.... The TV ratings are going to want to reflect those numbers.

Compare to the NFL... there are many times during the season that CBS and Fox will ask the NFL to switch a game from noon to 3 p.m. for the national audience is larger at 3 p.m.

Fargo
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Post by Fargo » Sun Mar 14, 2010 5:37 pm

MSHL should follow olympic/NHL example and get rid of ridiculous OT standard. One OT and then go to a shoot out. 4, 5, 6 7 Ot's is just stupid. You can fix stupid. 8)

starmvp
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Post by starmvp » Sun Mar 14, 2010 5:41 pm

Fargo wrote:MSHL should follow olympic/NHL example and get rid of ridiculous OT standard. One OT and then go to a shoot out. 4, 5, 6 7 Ot's is just stupid. You can fix stupid. 8)
Do you really want a high school hockey semifinal game decided by a shootout?

StayAtHomeD
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Re: Kind of a Raw Deal for a #1 Seed

Post by StayAtHomeD » Sun Mar 14, 2010 5:42 pm

gamer19 wrote:Does anybody else think the #1 seed is kind of getting a raw deal here. If teams are seeded shouldn't the #1 seed play the early game on Thursday and the early game on Friday and then have an opportunity for more rest? Isn't that one of the perks of being a #1 seed. Now Tonka has to come back on shorter amount of rest after playing in the 4 OT game, great game.

I am not a Tonka backer and I am sure it is all done for TV ratings, but I just think if you seed the teams, then give the team that earned the #1 seed the advantages of a #1 seed.

Just my thought.
Nah, Tonka has proven that they can choke any day of the week or any time for that matter. Doesn't matter, Hill Murray should have won to begin with.

StayAtHomeD
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Post by StayAtHomeD » Sun Mar 14, 2010 5:42 pm

Zamman wrote:Number 1 deserves the spotlight, that is why they are on prime-time on Thursday. The idea here is the best should not be going to overtime on Friday. But because the number 4 seed, who should have been the 3 seed, was so much better it forced Tonka to have to fight and get the win instead of walk through and go home and sleep.
Great game and that is what the tournament is all about. Last night the right team won, by what the state wants but in reality the better team lost. But what a game.
Tonight should be another great game. I think Tonka wins this one in another barn burner.
"Great game" LOL Edina smoked them.

Lucia4President
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Post by Lucia4President » Sun Mar 14, 2010 5:42 pm

Fargo wrote:MSHL should follow olympic/NHL example and get rid of ridiculous OT standard. One OT and then go to a shoot out. 4, 5, 6 7 Ot's is just stupid. You can fix stupid. 8)
Having an elimination game decided by a shootout is the worst idea I've ever heard.
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starmvp
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Post by starmvp » Sun Mar 14, 2010 5:46 pm

Lucia4President wrote:
Fargo wrote:MSHL should follow olympic/NHL example and get rid of ridiculous OT standard. One OT and then go to a shoot out. 4, 5, 6 7 Ot's is just stupid. You can fix stupid. 8)
Having an elimination game decided by a shootout is the worst idea I've ever heard.
Agreed

Fargo
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Post by Fargo » Sun Mar 14, 2010 5:50 pm

Lucia4President wrote:
Fargo wrote:MSHL should follow olympic/NHL example and get rid of ridiculous OT standard. One OT and then go to a shoot out. 4, 5, 6 7 Ot's is just stupid. You can fix stupid. 8)
Having an elimination game decided by a shootout is the worst idea I've ever heard.
It is good enough for the olympics and the NHL. IMO, they are little higher up the totem pole in stature than a measly MSHL hockey tournament. It is just ridiculous to have kids playing extensive OTs with no limits. Does the name Kory Stringer mean anything to you. If the MSHL does not get their ACT together, they will re-learn it the hard way about Kory Stringer. There is a limit what the human body can do. You really do not want to find that limit or people will be crying over spilled milk. There is no such thing as an accident. All accidents are preventable. Unless of course you are stupid. then they are not. :cry:

CitiesSpudsGuy
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Post by CitiesSpudsGuy » Sun Mar 14, 2010 5:52 pm

starmvp wrote:
Lucia4President wrote:
Fargo wrote:MSHL should follow olympic/NHL example and get rid of ridiculous OT standard. One OT and then go to a shoot out. 4, 5, 6 7 Ot's is just stupid. You can fix stupid. 8)
Having an elimination game decided by a shootout is the worst idea I've ever heard.
Agreed
Yes, completely moronic. Let the teams decide the winner, not a skills competition.
50+ years of Spuds Hockey

Fargo
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Post by Fargo » Sun Mar 14, 2010 5:55 pm

CitiesSpudsGuy wrote:
starmvp wrote:
Lucia4President wrote:
Fargo wrote:MSHL should follow olympic/NHL example and get rid of ridiculous OT standard. One OT and then go to a shoot out. 4, 5, 6 7 Ot's is just stupid. You can fix stupid. 8)
Having an elimination game decided by a shootout is the worst idea I've ever heard.
Agreed
Yes, completely moronic. Let the teams decide the winner, not a skills competition.
Who was moronic? The vikings, stringer or lack of skills? this eventually comes down to the same issue.

BBB
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Post by BBB » Sun Mar 14, 2010 6:06 pm

Korey Stringer had a heatstroke when it was humid and close to 100 degrees in the middle of the summer weighing over 330 lbs. Nice comparison.

Lucia4President
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Post by Lucia4President » Sun Mar 14, 2010 6:06 pm

Fargo wrote:
Lucia4President wrote:
Fargo wrote:MSHL should follow olympic/NHL example and get rid of ridiculous OT standard. One OT and then go to a shoot out. 4, 5, 6 7 Ot's is just stupid. You can fix stupid. 8)
Having an elimination game decided by a shootout is the worst idea I've ever heard.
It is good enough for the olympics and the NHL. IMO, they are little higher up the totem pole in stature than a measly MSHL hockey tournament. It is just ridiculous to have kids playing extensive OTs with no limits. Does the name Kory Stringer mean anything to you. If the MSHL does not get their ACT together, they will re-learn it the hard way about Kory Stringer. There is a limit what the human body can do. You really do not want to find that limit or people will be crying over spilled milk. There is no such thing as an accident. All accidents are preventable. Unless of course you are stupid. then they are not. :cry:
It's used in the Olympics, but the NHL doesn't have their playoff games come down to a shootout. After the Olympics I was listening to Bettman on NHL Radio and he was going on and on about how shootouts to decide games in the playoffs/medal round is asinine.
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CitiesSpudsGuy
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Post by CitiesSpudsGuy » Sun Mar 14, 2010 6:07 pm

Fargo wrote:
CitiesSpudsGuy wrote:
starmvp wrote:
Lucia4President wrote:
Fargo wrote:MSHL should follow olympic/NHL example and get rid of ridiculous OT standard. One OT and then go to a shoot out. 4, 5, 6 7 Ot's is just stupid. You can fix stupid. 8)
Having an elimination game decided by a shootout is the worst idea I've ever heard.
Agreed
Yes, completely moronic. Let the teams decide the winner, not a skills competition.
Who was moronic? The vikings, stringer or lack of skills? this eventually comes down to the same issue.
I don't have time to explain the differences between Korey Stringer (an overweight football player) and a bunch of high school hockey players who are in great shape.... oh wait, maybe I did just explain it to you. :roll: There's no comparison.
50+ years of Spuds Hockey

Bower146
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Post by Bower146 » Sun Mar 14, 2010 6:11 pm

The nhl only uses shootout for the regular season because overtime ties were stupid and its a way to draw interest. The olympics uses a shootout because there are so many things going on at the places where the games are being played after that they cannot afford to allow a 3 overtime game because there are other things going on not just hockey.

blueblood
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StayatHomeD

Post by blueblood » Sun Mar 14, 2010 6:11 pm

Wow - someone is bitter here. Yea, Edina beat Tonka, but by no means did they "Smoke em" as you suggest:

Here's s a summary

1st period: Nice play by Edina to get the early lead. Shots were 6 to 6 for the period. Hmmm, sounds pretty even to me so far.

2nd period: Second goal was a good shot by Sit based on a fortunate bounce off the side of the net. 2 more Edina goals, give them a 4-0 cushion. Shots wrere 12-9 Edina. Advantage Edina.

3rd period: Tonka scores early on the pp and then follows that up with another goal within a minute to close to 4-2. Shots for the 3rd period were 10-2 in favor of Tonka. Advantage Tonka.

Conclusion:

1st period was even in play
2nd period was all Edina
3rd period was all Tonka

Edina won the 2nd period which turned out to be the difference in the game. Congrats to the cake, but don't discount the effort by the Skippers.
Last edited by blueblood on Sun Mar 14, 2010 6:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Play Like a Champion Today

salol44
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Post by salol44 » Sun Mar 14, 2010 6:12 pm

Fargo wrote:
Lucia4President wrote:
Fargo wrote:MSHL should follow olympic/NHL example and get rid of ridiculous OT standard. One OT and then go to a shoot out. 4, 5, 6 7 Ot's is just stupid. You can fix stupid. 8)
Having an elimination game decided by a shootout is the worst idea I've ever heard.
It is good enough for the olympics and the NHL. IMO, they are little higher up the totem pole in stature than a measly MSHL hockey tournament. It is just ridiculous to have kids playing extensive OTs with no limits. Does the name Kory Stringer mean anything to you. If the MSHL does not get their ACT together, they will re-learn it the hard way about Kory Stringer. There is a limit what the human body can do. You really do not want to find that limit or people will be crying over spilled milk. There is no such thing as an accident. All accidents are preventable. Unless of course you are stupid. then they are not. :cry:
Adding Kory Stringer to your argument does nothing. He passed due to a heat stroke during training camp and he was also 355 lb's. He wasn't in the greatest shape since it was very early in the season. I agree that this accident could have been preventable but it really doesn't go with your argument.

The NHL has shoot outs during the regular season only. In playoffs they play until their is a winner....no shoot outs. The high school state tourney is playoffs, so they play until their is a winner, just like the NHL. I would suggest contacting the MSHSL about this because you are not going to get a lot of support on this board.

Doglover
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Post by Doglover » Mon Mar 15, 2010 1:33 am

Blueblood is right (although not without a little skipper bias). It was a good game. Edina came out strong and that early goal was huge. Then the second goal by Sit just really got them going and was probably one of the key turning points in the game. Suddenly everyone in the building knew Edina might just win the Championship.

The next two goals just further demoralized a tired Tonka team with so much pressure already on them. The Edina penalty was huge for Tonka and lit their spark. Everyone knew they'd have to come out on fire the start of the third and they did not disappoint. Two great goals by Prochno and suddenly we had a hockey game.

After Edina took some time to regroup, they settled down and went back to playing very smart hockey. I think Tonka gave it a great last shot and they are an amazing hockey team with kids that can play the game-no doubt. Edina played smart, tied up the puck along the boards for the last minute of play instead of just trying to dish it out (brilliant hockey) and won the game in faceoffs and good defensive play and of course - an amazing display by their jr netminder. Tonka played very well but it was not their night and Edina was the better "team".

Congrats to both teams on an excellent season.

pioneers
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Post by pioneers » Mon Mar 15, 2010 10:57 am

They should never have a shootout to determine a state tournament game or section game for that matter. Let them play.
Pioneers 1983, 1991 and 2008 State Champions

Factsmatter1
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Post by Factsmatter1 » Mon Mar 15, 2010 11:12 am

Doglover wrote:Blueblood is right (although not without a little skipper bias). It was a good game. Edina came out strong and that early goal was huge. Then the second goal by Sit just really got them going and was probably one of the key turning points in the game. Suddenly everyone in the building knew Edina might just win the Championship.

The next two goals just further demoralized a tired Tonka team with so much pressure already on them. The Edina penalty was huge for Tonka and lit their spark. Everyone knew they'd have to come out on fire the start of the third and they did not disappoint. Two great goals by Prochno and suddenly we had a hockey game.

After Edina took some time to regroup, they settled down and went back to playing very smart hockey. I think Tonka gave it a great last shot and they are an amazing hockey team with kids that can play the game-no doubt. Edina played smart, tied up the puck along the boards for the last minute of play instead of just trying to dish it out (brilliant hockey) and won the game in faceoffs and good defensive play and of course - an amazing display by their jr netminder. Tonka played very well but it was not their night and Edina was the better "team".

Congrats to both teams on an excellent season.

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