USHL...NAHL...Tier 1 - "Am I crazy...Love My Kid"

[LoveMyKid]

What am I missing...What is the hurry...

I could not wait until my child became 16. I always thought...."What a great age and all the things we can do together.

Why would I want them to leave at 16?

Things that I love

I love spending time with my kids. (That is why me and my wife had them)
I love when they have their friends over.
I love watching them spend time hanging out with their siblings.
I love seeing them every night.
I love having dinner with them.
I love watching them build a relationship with their grandparents and cousins.
I love having them at family functions.
I love being able to do impromtu things with them. (Going to the Wild game on a whim)
I love meeting their girlfriends.
I hate when they're sick..But Love it that I or their Mom is there for them.
I love that they're are under my roof and that I am protecting them.
I love knowing where they are and that are for the most part safe.

Please explain:
Why would I want them to leave at age 16 and someone else get those (my)moments with my child?

Not saying that you don't love your kids...But I have a hard time figuring out a parents thought process.

PS: My child has been on the high end of hockey his whole life...so he has had the opportunity to seek elsewhere for hockey. But at what and at who's cost?

[High Flyer]

What am I missing...I could not wait until my child became 16. I always thought...."What a great age and all the things we can do together.

Why would I want them to leave?

I love spending time with my kids. (That is why me and my wife had them)
I love when they have their friends over.
I love watching them spend time hanging out with their siblings.
I love seeing them every night.
I love having dinner with them.
I love watching them build a relationship with their grandparents and cousins.
I love having them at family functions.
I love being able to do impromtu things with them. (Going to the Wild game on a whim)
I love meeting there girlfriends.
I hate when they are sick..But Love it that I am there for them.
I love that there are under my roof and that I am protecting them.
I love knowing where they are and that are for the most part safe.

Please explain:
Why would I want them to leave at age 16 and some else get those moments?

Not saying that you don't love your kids...But I have a hard time figuring out a parents thought process.

PS: My child has been on the high end of hockey his whole life...so he has had the opportunity to seek elsewhere for hockey. But at what and at who's cost?

Because the decision to leave at age 16 to train and compete at a higher level of hockey is not about what is best for you ("I love....."), it is about whether or not from a hockey stand point (developmentally speaking) it is in your sons best interest to leave.

Sometimes, both parents and players may end up having to make some sacrifices in order to achieve a specific goal.

[The Exiled One]

Please explain:
Why would I want them to leave at age 16 and someelse get those (my)moments with my child?

It's an attempt to increase your odds of landing a D1 scholarship... too risky if you ask me.

[LoveMyKid]

What am I missing...I could not wait until my child became 16. I always thought...."What a great age and all the things we can do together.

Why would I want them to leave?

I love spending time with my kids. (That is why me and my wife had them)
I love when they have their friends over.
I love watching them spend time hanging out with their siblings.
I love seeing them every night.
I love having dinner with them.
I love watching them build a relationship with their grandparents and cousins.
I love having them at family functions.
I love being able to do impromtu things with them. (Going to the Wild game on a whim)
I love meeting there girlfriends.
I hate when they are sick..But Love it that I am there for them.
I love that there are under my roof and that I am protecting them.
I love knowing where they are and that are for the most part safe.

Please explain:
Why would I want them to leave at age 16 and some else get those moments?

Not saying that you don't love your kids...But I have a hard time figuring out a parents thought process.

PS: My child has been on the high end of hockey his whole life...so he has had the opportunity to seek elsewhere for hockey. But at what and at who's cost?

Because the decision to leave at age 16 to train and compete at a higher level of hockey is not about what is best for you ("I love....."), it is about whether or not from a hockey stand point (developmentally speaking) it is in your sons best interest to leave.

Sometimes, both parents and players may end up having to make some sacrifices in order to achieve a specific goal.

Okay...Just asking....What is your/kid ultimate goal?
(Please don't give the BS of "To be the best hockeyplayer he can be"
That is a cop out.

Just what is the Ultimate Goal?

[BodyShots]

What am I missing...I could not wait until my child became 16. I always thought...."What a great age and all the things we can do together.

Why would I want them to leave?

I love spending time with my kids. (That is why me and my wife had them)
I love when they have their friends over.
I love watching them spend time hanging out with their siblings.
I love seeing them every night.
I love having dinner with them.
I love watching them build a relationship with their grandparents and cousins.
I love having them at family functions.
I love being able to do impromtu things with them. (Going to the Wild game on a whim)
I love meeting there girlfriends.
I hate when they are sick..But Love it that I am there for them.
I love that there are under my roof and that I am protecting them.
I love knowing where they are and that are for the most part safe.

Please explain:
Why would I want them to leave at age 16 and some else get those moments?

Not saying that you don't love your kids...But I have a hard time figuring out a parents thought process.

PS: My child has been on the high end of hockey his whole life...so he has had the opportunity to seek elsewhere for hockey. But at what and at who's cost?

Because the decision to leave at age 16 to train and compete at a higher level of hockey is not about what is best for you ("I love....."), it is about whether or not from a hockey stand point (developmentally speaking) it is in your sons best interest to leave.

Sometimes, both parents and players may end up having to make some sacrifices in order to achieve a specific goal.

Okay...Just asking....What is your/kid ultimate goal?
(Please don't give the BS of "To be the best hockeyplayer he can be"
That is a cop out.

Just what is the Ultimate Goal?

For some....NHL
Others....D1 or college
and others....HS Varsity

It all depends on your ability and drive to get their. Some have the ability without the drive. Others have the drive without the ability. And a select few have both the ability and drive to achieve their ultimate goals.

[The Exiled One]

Because the decision to leave at age 16 to train and compete at a higher level of hockey is not about what is best for you ("I love....."), it is about whether or not from a hockey stand point (developmentally speaking) it is in your sons best interest to leave.

Sometimes, both parents and players may end up having to make some sacrifices in order to achieve a specific goal.

Okay...Just asking....What is your/kid ultimate goal?
(Please don't give the BS of "To be the best hockeyplayer he can be"
That is a cop out.

Just what is the Ultimate Goal?

For some....NHL
Others....D1 or college
and others....HS Varsity

It all depends on your ability and drive to get their. Some have the ability without the drive. Others have the drive without the ability. And a select few have both the ability and drive to achieve their ultimate goals.

If you're talking just USHL, NAHL or Midget... it's probably a D1 scholarship. However, of the 20 or so players leaving HS hockey this year, only seven have college scholarships or NTDP roster spots lined up. The other 13 are gambling a bit... fairly risky in most cases.

[goldy313]

It all depends on what prioity you give hockey and that's an individual decision. Everyone has different priorities and if hockey is really high and for some it's the highest then it is decison worth considering if not then you probably don't even think about it until later. Family, education, religion, sports, music, work, social life, etc. are things people have in their lives to different extents and the priority is given to one over the other and all intrude on the others to some extent. Your goal may be the NHL or D1 but you may also realize that education is going to give your kid a higher chance to succeed in life so that's the priority, others know that their kid will go into the family business if hockey doesn't work out so they throw everything at hockey knowing there is a fall back and it's a chance worth taking. Others are purely living in fantasyland when leaving and a very small group will leave and succeed.

Also at some level the coaches of these teams are salesmen and it's their job to get kids to play for them and their teams. That's not a bad thing but when you make that offer to a family that really regards hockey high on their list of priorities it's a much easier sell.

[Tigers33]

Few things...

1) People are forgetting that a lot of time these kids are being pushed by their parents, because the parent is still living through their kid. The parent never played, or never made it very far. So...they want their kid to make it.

2) Leaving does not guarantee a D1 scholarship or NHL career. For most people that are going to play D1 or in the NHL, than the scouts are going to notice them. Even if they are playing for North Metro, like there big time D they just had. Some of the top MN players played high school...

3) Many kids are also being told to leave school early by "advisors" other known as agents. People like OCTAGON and other places advise these kids to leave in hoping that they will represent them down the road.

4) A lot of this stuff will tell you what type of person the player is too...I think there are a lot of former top players that would tell kids to stay 4 years, because that is the best years of their life.

Keep it real people...most people out there dont have an NHL player...let your kid enjoy football, golf, baseball, school, life, etc...

[wingmaster]

This might be a question for Dustin Byfuglien.

[jancze5]

"1) People are forgetting that a lot of time these kids are being pushed by their parents, because the parent is still living through their kid. The parent never played, or never made it very far. So...they want their kid to make it."

this is the most overly used and pathetic statement that is so far from the truth it's ridiculous. It should be banned from the board.

[mnhockeydadof2]

Perfectly stated, Tigers 33

[keepyourheadup]

I have to agree with janze on this one, kids being "pushed" by their parents have all but disappeared by this point in their career. The great majority of players who do choose to leave are at or near the top of their respective classes. I'm willing to bet that most of these kids love to play hockey and don't need the push. Lets not forget that junior teams are in the business to win, taking players unable to compete would not be in their best interest. As posted earlier, there are many reasons kids choose to leave, I just don't think too many are being pushed in to it.

[old goalie85]

love your kid---- great points, but, I want my kids to be successfull at other sports. I think that the kids that are pushed into these gigs end up missing out on homecoming games, helping coach little bros teams, golf team with pals whatever else. If the kid is doing well in school why mess with that over hockey??

[observer]

My only initial comment is that it's unfortunate. It's a troubling and confusing situation for a lot of Minnesota parents.

Basketball, baseball and football don't suggest that your son delay entry into college for a year or two. The USHL and the NAHL are businesses that are striving hard to make a profit. Their job isn't parenting their job is recruiting. They're interested in your child or they wouldn't be recruiting him but do they have your son's best interests in mind? That's a different question.

The NAHL added like 12 teams this year to their business. That means they need another 250 some bodies to fill those rosters. Where do those players come from? More kids delaying entry into college. So now we have private, for profit, businesses dictating the appropriate track for our sons to take to D1 or D3 hockey.

Again unfortunate but I don't see how things are going to change anytime soon. The proverbial cat is out of the bag. Could colleges have done something to limit the expansion of these businesses? They're getting a more mature and experienced player so it does benefit them.

Take a peek at this topic about the incoming freshmen to the University of Nebraska Omaha.

http://www.ushsho.com/forums/viewtopic. ... 7&start=50

Wow. Very impressive list of players. Four 89s, five 90s and two 91s. Natural freshmen would be second half 91s and first half 92s if they were going directly to college this fall.

Talk to us about the money piece?
Talk to us about what college recruiters say to the players about a year or two of development first?
What does the Walters example illustrate?

[Tigers33]

Keep your head up...

I never said pushed to leave...I meant being pushed in general. Parents are totally living through their kids. Are you kidding me?? I would bet that most parents that made it to college or the nhl are sitting back and letting their kid enjoy hockey and life. Its the parents that never played or didnt make it that are getting their kids signed up in AAA, 4-5 summer camps, high school hockey, and most of all...complaining about their kid because the kid didnt make some all-star team or varsity as a sophmore.

When I grew up...I played football, hockey, baseball, golf, and some soccer. What happened to kids playing all these sports? Name another sport where this many kids leave their high school early to go do something.

[High Flyer]

My only initial comment is that it's unfortunate. It's a troubling and confusing situation for a lot of Minnesota parents.

Basketball, baseball and football don't suggest that your son delay entry into college for a year or two. The USHL and the NAHL are businesses that are striving hard to make a profit. Their job isn't parenting their job is recruiting. They're interested in your child or they wouldn't be recruiting him but do they have your son's best interests in mind? That's a different question.

The NAHL added like 12 teams this year to their business. That means they need another 250 some bodies to fill those rosters. Where do those players come from? More kids delaying entry into college. So now we have private, for profit, businesses dictating the appropriate track for our sons to take to D1 or D3 hockey.

Again unfortunate but I don't see how things are going to change anytime soon. The proverbial cat is out of the bag. Could colleges have done something to limit the expansion of these businesses? They're getting a more mature and experienced player so it does benefit them.

Take a peek at this topic about the incoming freshmen to the University of Nebraska Omaha.

http://www.ushsho.com/forums/viewtopic. ... 7&start=50

Wow. Very impressive list of players. Four 89s, five 90s and two 91s. Natural freshmen would be second half 91s and first half 92s if they were going directly to college this fall.

Talk to us about the money piece?
Talk to us about what college recruiters say to the players about a year or two of development first?
What does the Walters example illustrate?

good observation.....I too agree that its a disturbing trend. Also thought it was interesting that Lucia commented on this trend during a recent interview.

If I were a college coach and I could wait till a high school senior graduated and played a year or two in the USHL before recruting them, why wouldn't I do that? Or better yet, why not recruit a high school player, but only make verbal commiment to them and then dictate that he play a year, two , maybe three years in the USHL before bring him in. Why wouldn't I do that?

I questioned this trend on another thread, as to why the NCAA is allowing this to take place, because it does not happen in any of the other NCAA sports. Maybe the NCAA should look into maxing out the freshman age to 19?

[observer]

Maybe the NCAA should look into maxing out the freshman age to 19?

That I like.

[keepyourheadup]

Tiger I get your point but I thought we were talking about kids leaving for juniors. No doubt some parents push too hard, not that many years ago I witnessed someone purchase an entire AAA name just so he could put his kid on the team. My point is that this activity diminishes very quickly as the kids get older and those that can't compete simply get left behind. There will always be a couple of nuts out there but for the most part the parents I've had the pleasure to get to know see it much the same as I do, just try to support your player as best you can and be there for them when and if they hit the end of the line.
My opinion is unless you get the invite to Ann Arbor most kids should stay in high school, but its unfair for any of us to criticise the choices of other families because each players situation is uniquely there own and we can't possibly know why or how they came to it.

[High Flyer]

What am I missing...I could not wait until my child became 16. I always thought...."What a great age and all the things we can do together.

Why would I want them to leave?

I love spending time with my kids. (That is why me and my wife had them)
I love when they have their friends over.
I love watching them spend time hanging out with their siblings.
I love seeing them every night.
I love having dinner with them.
I love watching them build a relationship with their grandparents and cousins.
I love having them at family functions.
I love being able to do impromtu things with them. (Going to the Wild game on a whim)
I love meeting there girlfriends.
I hate when they are sick..But Love it that I am there for them.
I love that there are under my roof and that I am protecting them.
I love knowing where they are and that are for the most part safe.

Please explain:
Why would I want them to leave at age 16 and some else get those moments?

Not saying that you don't love your kids...But I have a hard time figuring out a parents thought process.

PS: My child has been on the high end of hockey his whole life...so he has had the opportunity to seek elsewhere for hockey. But at what and at who's cost?

Because the decision to leave at age 16 to train and compete at a higher level of hockey is not about what is best for you ("I love....."), it is about whether or not from a hockey stand point (developmentally speaking) it is in your sons best interest to leave.

Sometimes, both parents and players may end up having to make some sacrifices in order to achieve a specific goal.

Okay...Just asking....What is your/kid ultimate goal?
(Please don't give the BS of "To be the best hockeyplayer he can be"
That is a cop out.

Just what is the Ultimate Goal?

Each players goal may be different, but it is safe to say that they all dream about playing in the NHL. If not that, it safe to say they are at least striving to play at the division 1 level.

Do you think that each of these players decision to not play in the MSHSL is a good decision for them (that is from a hockey developmental perspective):

Class of 2011 not playing in the MSHSL

D - Craig Dunnick Class AA (St Cloud Tech) Major Jr/OHL (Windsor)

F - Seth Ambroz Class A (New Prague) Tier 1 Jr A/USHL (Omaha)
F - Tanner Lane Class A (Detroit Lakes) Tier 1 Jr. A/USHL (Fargo)
D - Ben Marshall Class A (Mahtomedi) Tier 1 Jr. A/USHL (Omaha)
G - Adam Wilcox Class A (S. St. Paul) Tier 1 Jr. A/USHL (Green Bay)
G - Matt McNeely Class A (STA) Tier 1 Jr. A/USHL (NDTP)
F - Dan Carlson Class AA (Maple Grove) Tier 1 Jr. A/USHL (NDTP)
D - Matt Van Vories Class AA (Edina) Tier 1 Jr. A/USHL (NDTP)
D - Andy Welinski Class AA (Duluth East) Tier 1 Jr A/USHL (Green Bay)

F - Evan Hesse Class A (Monticello) Tier 2 Jr. A/NAHL (Alaska)

D - Charlie Donlin Class A (Holy Family) Tier 1 AAA U18 (Colorado Rampage)
G - Matt LaPrade Class A (Holy Family) Tier 1 AAA U18 (Colorado Rampage)
F – Matt Hansen Class AA (St. Cloud Tech) Tier 1 AAA U18 (Russel Stover)
D - James Wagoner Class A (Owatonna) Tier 1 AAA U18 (Russel Stover)
F - Darrin Lapic Class A (New Prague) Tier 1 AAA U18 (Russel Stover)
F - Drew Anderson Class AA (Rochester Century) Tier 1 AAA U18 (Russel Stover)
D - Connor Faupel Class AA (Rochester Century) Tier 1 AAA U18 (Russel Stover)

13 of 17 players come from either a small class “A” school and/or play in a weak conference that lacks exposure and/or play in weak hockey program

3 players left due to what I would say was “coaching philosophy indifferences”

That leaves only one player that a move was maybe or maybe not in his best interest (developmentally), but only time will tell.

[12345]

Ok...

I am one of "those" parents! I have let my son make his own choices about whether he wants to stay or leave - he chose to leave because he wanted more. My parenting practices, since he was a baby, have always revolved around this philosophy: "My job as a parent is to raise an independent, helpful, goodhearted citizen of society, not to raise a kid who can keep me busy."

How selfish would it be for me to say, "NO... sorry honey, I'm not gonna let you go because I want to have more fun with you. I want to enjoy you longer. I don't want to be lonely. I need you to help me around the house. I...I....I... What about him?

My job is to teach him all the things he needs to know so he can go out and experience the world. Research shows that most of a childs development happens before the age of 6. If you've done your job when they were young, and you've done it well, they will be ready and take control of their lives.

It really comes down to this... if it's right for you and your family... then let him go and experience the world. I could not be more proud of the young man that he has become and the great athlete that he strives to continue to be.

I would even dare to say to some of those parents who "cannot imagine" letting their child go, that they are probably the ones that need to do it the most.

[12345]

Oh... here's another thing...

How many 16 year olds are home on a regular basis anyway?

Seems to me many are out with their friends, driving around, texting, talking on the phone, going to parties, hanging out in the basement playing video games, having sex, etc... and if they aren't... and need to be with their mommies and daddies... then I think you have bigger problems anyway....

Just my opinion...

[CrashDaNET]

Ok...

I am one of "those" parents! I have let my son make his own choices about whether he wants to stay or leave - he chose to leave because he wanted more. My parenting practices, since he was a baby, have always revolved around this philosophy: "My job as a parent is to raise an independent, helpful, goodhearted citizen of society, not to raise a kid who can keep me busy."

How selfish would it be for me to say, "NO... sorry honey, I'm not gonna let you go because I want to have more fun with you. I want to enjoy you longer. I don't want to be lonely. I need you to help me around the house. I...I....I... What about him?

My job is to teach him all the things he needs to know so he can go out and experience the world. Research shows that most of a childs development happens before the age of 6. If you've done your job when they were young, and you've done it well, they will be ready and take control of their lives.

It really comes down to this... if it's right for you and your family... then let him go and experience the world. I could not be more proud of the young man that he has become and the great athlete that he strives to continue to be.

I would even dare to say to some of those parents who "cannot imagine" letting their child go, that they are probably the ones that need to do it the most.

Okay...now we have reached stupidity...
Quote ...Research shows that most of a childs development happens before the age of 6.... LOL

[LoveMyKid]

Ok...

I am one of "those" parents! I have let my son make his own choices about whether he wants to stay or leave - he chose to leave because he wanted more. My parenting practices, since he was a baby, have always revolved around this philosophy: "My job as a parent is to raise an independent, helpful, goodhearted citizen of society, not to raise a kid who can keep me busy."

How selfish would it be for me to say, "NO... sorry honey, I'm not gonna let you go because I want to have more fun with you. I want to enjoy you longer. I don't want to be lonely. I need you to help me around the house. I...I....I... What about him?

My job is to teach him all the things he needs to know so he can go out and experience the world. Research shows that most of a childs development happens before the age of 6. If you've done your job when they were young, and you've done it well, they will be ready and take control of their lives.

It really comes down to this... if it's right for you and your family... then let him go and experience the world. I could not be more proud of the young man that he has become and the great athlete that he strives to continue to be.

I would even dare to say to some of those parents who "cannot imagine" letting their child go, that they are probably the ones that need to do it the most.

12345

Joined: 26 Apr 2010
Posts: 10

Posted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 6:26 pm Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

For some reason, people often think that Shattuck has this "magical formula" for developing NHL hockey players. They don't. They're a school and a business. They take players (sometimes very average players) and give them an exceptional hockey/school opportunity they'll have for a lifetime. They end up developing some pretty great players, in the end, because they practice four-five times per week and they have an exceptional hockey coach at the Prep level. They also have created a program that is well respected throughtout the world, and therefore, attract more scouts than the typical Minnesota high school hockey game. There are very few kids who walk out of that school without some sort of a scholarship. Exposure matters.

As the kids get older, it becomes harder and harder to stand out at this level. In the long run, it's not about scoring... it's about understanding the game and making good decisions. For some kids, this is difficult to show during the tryout process because others become selfish and don't always make the smart play - they'd rather "put up the points". This is difficult for some of the better players - they just don't play that way.

The school is amazing (class sizes around 10); the friendships formed with kids around the world is priceless; and the fact that the students' world is focused on school and sports keeps them out of trouble. I would imagine that it's an experiece that any parent would likely foster.

Regardless, though, in the end, as we know, our 16 and 17 year old kids are the only ones who can decide in the end if they want to work harder to become better. Some do, some don't and nobody can predict whether their kid will or won't. HOWEVER, those that choose Shattuck walk away with more than a hockey experience, they walk away as a better person.


I'm not trying to start a fight here... just trying to help people understand that there are different avenues - those who are lucky enough to be accepted into Shattuck MAY be one step closer to success. Which is, ultimately, the goal we're all trying to reach.

The end just made my point....It is not about your childs choice...it is your choice.

[watchdog]

12345

you are 100% right on!!! i just get a kick out of people who like to step up on their soap box about other peoples choices!!! if your family thinks its ok for your son to play hockey somewhere other than home thats your choice not the niehbors!! good luck to your son.

[OpenMind]

I think you guys should also consider the impact the transfer rule has had on this issue. For kids that are not in a good program, or feel they are not getting good coaching, there are not many alternatives if your parents aren't willing to move, lie about financial circumstances or fight the MSHL with a risky chance of success. Under those circumstances, looking to juniors or AAA might seem an attractive option for a kid that is really trying to advance.