Messier Helmets.

power92 · Post by **power92** » Thu Jan 06, 2011 11:30 am

Anyone else having players cut by these helmets? I have seen 2 guys in less than a week be cut open (forehead area) wearing this brand.
Just wondering if it's a trend, or bad luck.
Thanks for reading.

Zamman · Post by **Zamman** » Thu Jan 06, 2011 12:09 pm

Aren't these fitted helmets. Once fitted they need to stay that way. Players are loosening straps and changing the fit which is causing the problems.
My brother is a ref and that is what he told me...

bstarr15 · Post by **bstarr15** » Thu Jan 06, 2011 1:04 pm

Glad this made it to the board. Yes our team bought helmets and we have had multiple cuts, one kid 2 or 3 times,my son twice.
We've been talking about it
I think the coaching staff has talked to the maker?? or they were planning to meet someone representing the helmets. Have heard other teams having same issue.
I don't think it's about the fitting. I took my sons helmet and if you squeeze it the shell is soft and pliable. Compare it's "hardness" to an old helmet and it's totally different. I'm not an expert but that didn't seem right. I was amazed how much give in the M-11. I think the shell is defective and upon impact it's giving in and causing cuts. It's not the internal padding.
Now over all the years of kids in hockey I have never seen this occur and now it's not just our kids and I've seen alot of hockey.
If you have players using the M-11 and have been cut we should keep track.
How many times might this happen normally??? Not very often but if we start getting accounts of 12-15-20??? Then something is wrong.
We've had at least 5 on our team that I know of.
Please post to this thread any incidence of cuts and lets see how much response we get.
I'm sure the maker of the helmet if going to deny it but come on something is goofy if that many kids are getting hurt.

power92 · Post by **power92** » Thu Jan 06, 2011 1:21 pm

Thanks for your input bstarr. Luckily there was a rep at our game and I informed him of our issues.

bstarr15 · Post by **bstarr15** » Thu Jan 06, 2011 1:34 pm

Not only is the getting cut a worry, you should see the ER bill I got from the hospital and we were on the road, it was nearly $900.00 and I have high deductible Ins so guess how that gets paid for. Sticks are bad enough.
Charge for a room,then the Dr.s bill and one visit they just butterflied it and charged us for suturing.
I believe it's going to be an issue before all is said and done.

What did the Rep have to say when you spoke to him???

gerryodrowski · Post by **gerryodrowski** » Thu Jan 06, 2011 1:49 pm

Lots of misleading information has been communicated about this helmet by its marketers. They have successfully played on the fears of coaches, parents and players. Check this link for some facts....

http://www.concussionproofhelmet.com/

bstarr15 · Post by **bstarr15** » Thu Jan 06, 2011 2:00 pm

thanks for that post. I've seen that article before.
If your head hits the ice hard and stops quickly,your brain doesn't and that's the concussion. Now back to the M-11, it's padded well, still believe it's the shell that is the issue,just to soft,creating the cuts.
I've not seen any info from M-11 makers or is this just now getting on the radar of teams???

power92 · Post by **power92** » Thu Jan 06, 2011 2:11 pm

A good mouth guard and a strong neck will prevent concussions more than a helmet. Until they figure out how to inject foam into the skull, this will be a problem. But the helmet should NOT be the cause of the injury, i really hope this gets taken care of soon.

ps gerry, you see all the stuff going on between Riddell and Schutt? Riddell sues shut for a copyright issue, almost put them out of business. Guess who makes facemasks for Riddell...... Schutt. LOL. It's all about $$$$$$$.

bstarr15 · Post by **bstarr15** » Thu Jan 06, 2011 2:14 pm

http://www.cascadeicehockey.com/m11_forum/

Another site with some complaints about the helmet.
Not only has my son been cut, his helmet had to be replaced after 2 weeks as it was broken in the back like someone else posted on the M-11 site.

gerryodrowski · Post by **gerryodrowski** » Thu Jan 06, 2011 2:32 pm

The flexibility of the M11 shell is integral to the protection system of the helmet. It is designed to work similarly to a "crumple zone" in an automobile. So many incidents of head lacerations seem to indicate that there may be a flaw in the system. A flexible helmet shell simply seems counterintuitive.

gerryodrowski · Post by **gerryodrowski** » Thu Jan 06, 2011 2:37 pm

power92 wrote:A good mouth guard and a strong neck will prevent concussions more than a helmet. Until they figure out how to inject foam into the skull, this will be a problem. But the helmet should NOT be the cause of the injury, i really hope this gets taken care of soon.

ps gerry, you see all the stuff going on between Riddell and Schutt? Riddell sues shut for a copyright issue, almost put them out of business. Guess who makes facemasks for Riddell...... Schutt. LOL. It's all about $$$$$$$.

The very best protection against concussion and other severe injuries is proper enforcement of the rules as it relates to head contact and blind hits. Bigger, faster, stronger athletes are for real. Watch a hockey game from the 60's or 70's. It looks nothing like the game today. Same with football. Sorry if this is a bit off subject.

ozone1 · Post by **ozone1** » Thu Jan 06, 2011 2:46 pm

power92 wrote:Anyone else having players cut by these helmets? I have seen 2 guys in less than a week be cut open (forehead area) wearing this brand.
Just wondering if it's a trend, or bad luck.
Thanks for reading.

Interesting hearing about this now, over the summer / fall I spoke with numerous people that said it was the worst helmet they ever had and protection felt awful.

bstarr15 · Post by **bstarr15** » Thu Jan 06, 2011 3:02 pm

gerry, I understand the crumple zone thought but also agree that it seems counter to what one would think being to flexible.
When these where designed how where they tested in live situations??
Where they.
also rule enforcement needs to be better, way to many head shot I've seen this year. Where I've seen the cuts though is collisions that a player doesn't see coming or a collision into the goalie or net post not from game play.
I think they thought out the shock absorbing internal aspect from reading about the helmet from their website but maybe didn't account for the softer shell creating cuts which is the issue and didn't see that coming.

gerryodrowski · Post by **gerryodrowski** » Thu Jan 06, 2011 3:15 pm

bstarr15 - I have no idea under what conditions these helmets were tested.

I have witnessed players cut wearing M11 helmets from contact with another player or the glass. However, the worst injury I saw was a lacerated ear that resulted from a player being hit by a shot. Has anyone seen or heard of similar incidents?

power92 · Post by **power92** » Thu Jan 06, 2011 3:31 pm

One of our guys took a puck in the mask, gave him a nasty knot and cut on forehead, no stitches. Other guy hit to head from another player (should've had his head up), 27 stitches. Both injuries occurred in the forehead area, right above eyebrow.

bstarr15 · Post by **bstarr15** » Thu Jan 06, 2011 3:35 pm

Nor do I and assume not many people do.
Can you say marketing and salesmenship. Everyone now fearing concussions, jump on the band wagon trying to be proactive and that's what this helmet has feed on. The name sells.
New might not always be better. Appreciate the effort to improve helmets but if a problem has been created by trying to improve it then step up and correct it.
Off task wasn't there an issue with pro or college football helmets this year??

blindref · Post by **blindref** » Thu Jan 06, 2011 4:01 pm

I ref 75-100 games a year and I've never seen a cut from a Messier helmet.
In fact I bought for myself and my younger son.

I do have about 40 stitches in my chin from a lousy Protec mask in high school.

Check how loose the straps are, more than likely they are too loose.

power92 · Post by **power92** » Thu Jan 06, 2011 4:30 pm

I know our guys had them fitted properly. The flaw is the flexibilty, when it flexes, there is not enough padding on the edges to keep the shell from hitting the forehead area. It is a SECONDARY purpose of the helmet to prevent concussions, the primary purpose is to protect the exterior of the head/ face from "catastophic" impact ie: puck to face, head to ice, head to boards, skate to head, etc. Unfortunately, any of these catastrophic impacts can or will cause a concussion. It appears this model is falling short, we'll see if any more come to light.

Hey ref, if you're blind how can u tell what kind of helmet they are wearing.

gerryodrowski · Post by **gerryodrowski** » Thu Jan 06, 2011 4:34 pm

blindref wrote:I ref 75-100 games a year and I've never seen a cut from a Messier helmet.
In fact I bought for myself and my younger son.

I do have about 40 stitches in my chin from a lousy Protec mask in high school.

Check how loose the straps are, more than likely they are too loose.

blindref - how can we trust you to pick out injuries when you can't see your hand in front of your face!

starmvp · Post by **starmvp** » Thu Jan 06, 2011 6:03 pm

I have seen kids getting cut. Several needing stitches....

blindref · Post by **blindref** » Thu Jan 06, 2011 9:52 pm

power92 wrote:I know our guys had them fitted properly. The flaw is the flexibilty, when it flexes, there is not enough padding on the edges to keep the shell from hitting the forehead area. It is a SECONDARY purpose of the helmet to prevent concussions, the primary purpose is to protect the exterior of the head/ face from "catastophic" impact ie: puck to face, head to ice, head to boards, skate to head, etc. Unfortunately, any of these catastrophic impacts can or will cause a concussion. It appears this model is falling short, we'll see if any more come to light.

Hey ref, if you're blind how can u tell what kind of helmet they are wearing.

Good point!

bstarr15 · Post by **bstarr15** » Thu Jan 06, 2011 10:22 pm

I think spot on 92, see another report of cuts. I'm a blind squirrel in curling but these helmets are questionable.

gopherfan202120 · Post by **gopherfan202120** » Thu Jan 06, 2011 11:17 pm

my team hasnt had any cuts but we have had about ten of the players helmets break and need to be replaced

GopherPuck15 · Post by **GopherPuck15** » Thu Jan 06, 2011 11:27 pm

I may be wrong on this, but last year at the Hockey Expo I was talking with the Messier sales rep. He said that the flexibility is to help prevent concussions by transfering the blow throughout the entire head, rather than one spot, thus making the brain not hit the skull as hard? I believe the flexibility of these helmets are supposed to be the big improvement and groundbreaking science found in trying to help make safer head wear.

blindref · Post by **blindref** » Fri Jan 07, 2011 7:36 am

Hey ref, if you're blind how can u tell what kind of helmet they are wearing.
wink:[/quote]

Good point

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