Class A Rankings 2-6-11

Older Topics, Not the current discussion

Moderators: Mitch Hawker, east hockey, karl(east)

With 12 more hockey teams, the MSHSL could make three classes in hockey with 7 teams in each section, giving the top seed a first round bye. What would you think?

Poll ended at Sat Feb 12, 2011 11:18 pm

Yes, that would be great. It would give smaller schools opportunity to play only similar ability teams.
8
21%
I'm undecided. I can see the positives and negatives of the change.
13
33%
One Class! Two is bad enough.
18
46%
 
Total votes: 39

HShockeywatcher
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Class A Rankings 2-6-11

Post by HShockeywatcher »

It may not technically be Sunday yet, but I guess this is what it'll take to get my rankings out before karl 8)

After multiple revisions due to starting early in the week and upsets happening, this is what I've come to. The only part of my rankings I'm sure most people will agree with is the top 2. From there, things really go up for speculation.

6-12 is a group of good, but not great, teams. After them the rest are my best guess at an order based on head to head and common opponent games and I have dropped two teams from my rankings. As we get closer to sections/state, a couple more teams may end up dropping off in the coming weeks.

1. [1] St Thomas Academy (14-5)
The Cadets have basically secured up the top seed in 4A, shutting out Totino Grace. With the record of other top teams, there is a chance they will not get the top seed at state if they do not beat Hill Murray the second time around. In their last 4 games they have allowed 1 goal to each of Sibley and Richfield while shutting out South St Paul and Totino Grace.
This week: Tues vs Rochester Lourdes, Thurs @ Mahtomedi, Sat @ Tartan

2. [2] Blake (17-2-2)
The one common opponent with Hermantown is TRF, who Blake beat 5-1 and Hermantown tied. The Bears’ overall resume is very good and can probably play close with any team in the state. With the last game of the season at Breck the only remaining difficult game of the season, Blake has locked up the top seed in 2A and should be a good tournament.
This week: Thurs @ St Paul Saints, Sat vs Providence Academy

3. [3] Totino-Grace (15-4)
With the loss to Cloquet, Totino stays above Hermantown. In their common opponent games (TRF and DM) the Totino is 2-0 while Hermantown is 1-0-1 in those games. That being said, whenever Totino has played a really good team, they have lost by at least 5 goals and been shut out twice; beat by a margin of 20-2 in their 3 games against Edina, St Thomas and Benilde. Definitely a top team in Class A, but after losing at St Thomas, it looks like their section seed is still very up in the air and they will probably not make it to the X this year.
This week: Tues vs St Francis, Thurs @ Tartan, Sat @ Chisago Lakes Area

4. [8] South St. Paul (14-7)
I am much more impressed by beating John Marshall, shutting out Tartan and playing St Thomas than a couple losses and beating Monticello by 1. Definitely a sleeper for section 4A, but the Packers have not been consistent this season. They lost to the Pioneers by 2 at Aldrich; will it be closer when they play at Wakota?
This week: Thurs vs Hill-Murray, Sat vs Richfield

5. [5] Hermantown (18-3-1)
I believe Hermantown will end up with the #3 seed if they make it to state. Not only do they not have the same overall resume as Blake, St Thomas, or Totino, imo, but they beat Cathedral by the same score as Breck, who lost to Blake. Additionally, they will most likely win most of their section games by a good margin, while Blake, St Thomas or Totino will both have to play probably two teams better than any other 5A team. Inititally I was planning on having them at #2 after their 1-goal loss to Eden Prairie, but after losing to Bemidji and beating Monti by 1, things are definitely in question. They beat the Trojans by 1 last time they played. With a recent win over Marshall, the Trojans would like to make Tuesday’s game a good one.
This week: Tues vs Duluth Central, Sat @ Red Wing

6. [6] Duluth Marshall (13-8-1)
After losing to Central, the section is really up for grabs, but I’d say that Marshall should get the top seed if they beat Virginia this week. They have beaten both Warroad and Thief River Falls recently and have only lost to top 4 Class A schools and Central, it’ll be interesting to see how they do in sections.
This week: Tues vs Virgina, Sat vs Superior

7. [7] Thief River Falls (13-7-1)
The LOW loss is definitely not great for the rankings, and the reason they dropped this week, but not scoring on the best goalie in the state isn’t something you can really hold against a team. Recently beating Warroad and Central probably secures a top 2 seed in 8A for the Prowlers. As their season is left with winnable games, some momentum would be great to take into sections as all games are in TRF, home or away.
This week: Tues vs Roseau, Thurs @ Red Lake Falls

8. [9] Chisago Lakes Area (16-4)
The difference between the Wildcats and the rest of the schools is that they have won by at least 2 goals in all their wins. They’ll have another shot at Totino this week. How you handle teams like Chisago in rankings based solely on game scores is difficult.
This week: Tues @ Robbinsdale Cooper, Sat vs Totino-Grace

9. [10] Warroad (15-7)
Beating Central is what is keeping the Warriors atop the Trojans. Definitely a team we could see at the X after a great section tournament in TRF.
This week: Tues @ Grand Forks Central, Fri @ Bemidji

10. [11] Duluth Central (11-11)
A great 7A win this week most likely makes the Trojans probably a top 3 seed in their section.
This week: Tues @ Hermantown, Fri @ Princeton

11. [16] Rochester Lourdes (19-2)
As I’ve said all season, I don’t like Lourdes as a top team based on their body of work this season. That being said, they beat Breck, so they have to move up.
This week: Tues @ St Thomas, Thurs vs Owatonna

12. [4] Breck (12-8 )
The Mustangs are clearly a good team. There is no reason to count them out of anything for this year just yet. While voting will probably be submitted before they play Blake the 2nd time, they will probably make the final and will definitely be a contender for beating Blake a 3rd straight year in the section finals.
This week: Tues vs Minnehaha Academy, Thurs @ St Paul Como Park, Sat @ Faribault

13. [13] Mahtomedi (10-11-1)
Clearly a team who can play with just about anyone in state, but I am keeping them below Breck as the Mustangs beat them 8-0 earlier this season. We’ll see if they can keep St Thomas from shutting them out this week.
This week: Thurs vs St Thomas Academy

14. [15] Rogers (14-6-1)
Two shut outs and a .33 GAA this week, Rogers is definitely doing well as of late. Have they changed something to help them compete with Hermantown?
This week: Thurs vs Little Falls, Sat vs Monticello

15. [24] Lake of the Woods (14-5-2)
Beating TRF and following that up with two shut outs. With all of the gossip about their goalie, the Bears seem to control their own destiny for seeding in section 8A. I doubt if they were to win out anyone else would be the top seed. They have one more section opponent this week.
This week: Thurs @ International Falls, Fri vs Crookston

16. [20] Little Falls (16-3-2)
A couple bad losses recently, but the Flyers have responded by winning. Should be a great game this coming Thursday.
This week: Tues @ St Cloud Apollo, Thurs @ Rogers

17. [22] St. Cloud Cathedral (11-8-1)
Following their OT loss to Little Falls, the Crusaders have won their last two games. They play two conference games this week.
This week: Tues @ Hutchinson, Fri @ Waconia

18. [23] Proctor (14-6-1)
While I’d like to have the Rails higher, they got shut out by a Rogers team that Cathedral scored on. They are doing well as of late and are taking the program to heights they haven’t been in a while. Their roster seems to have many seniors on it, with 7 of their 10 leading scorers being seniors, it seems their success may not continue
This week: Thurs vs North Branch

19. [12] Hibbing/Chisholm (13-7-1)
A loss to Proctor doesn’t help Hibbing’s cause. I got a message early in the season from someone saying that the early loss was not a fluke and that Hibbing was out of their league playing Little Falls. It seems this is probably the case.
This week: Tues vs Grand Rapids, Fri vs Eveleth-Gilbert

20. [14] Virginia/MI-B (16-7)
Losing to International Falls recently doesn’t help their case. Their remaining two games are against section opponents and wins could shuffle things up even more in 7A.
This week: Tues vs Duluth Marshall

21. [17] Delano (3-1)
In their last 11 games, the Tigers have only lost to Cathedral by 1 twice and to Lourdes by 4. Delano is definitely a sleeper, but not a team to count out of section 2A.
This week: Tues vs Mound-Westonka, Fri vs Litchfield

22. [18] Orono (13-7-1)
Another sleeper in section 2A, sections will give them a chance to play teams they have not played during the regular season.
This week: Tues vs Litchfield, Sat vs Holy Family Catholic

23. [19] Sartell-St. Stephen (13-7-1)
Beating Little Falls then losing to Virginia doesn’t do much for state ranking, but the Flyers also lost to Virginia, so it shouldn’t affect their section seeding.
This week: Tues @ Alexandria, Thurs vs River Lakes


Section Seedings

1A
Rochecter Lourdes (19-2)
Mankato West (14-5-2)
Albert Lea (14-6)
Red Wing (7-14)
No changes from the last two weeks: “Lourdes beat West by 1 and shut out Albert Lea, West beat Albert Lea by 1, and Red Wing lost to Lourdes in OT and Albert Lea by 1. There should be some really great hockey come sections.”

2A
Blake (18-2-1)
Breck (12-8 )
Delano (15-4-1)
Providence Academy (14-5-1)
Orono (13-7-1)
I slid Breck back up to #2 with Delano losing to a team Breck beat. I have liked Providence Academy as they are an up and coming private school, but I really wonder how the section will seed them. The SPA tie and Coon Rapids loss could put them lower than Orono, but either would result in a neutral site game head to head.

3A
New Ulm (13-4-2)
Hutchinson (8-12)
Litchfield (13-7-1)
Marshall (15-5-2)
Litchfield losing to Hutch again puts New Ulm back in the driver’s seat in 3A. I expect to the New Ulm victorious when all is said and done.

4A
St Thomas (14-5)
South St Paul (14-7)
Mahtomedi (10-11-1)
Totino-Grace (15-4)
Chisago Lakes Area (16-4)
I’d say that scoring the most goals against the top seed should get the Packers the #2 seed. St Thomas has had 2 GA from SSP, 1 GA from Maht and 0 GA from TG. St Thomas and Maht play this week and Totino and Chisago play this week.

5A
Hermantown (18-3-1)
Rogers (13-6-1)
St Cloud Cathedral (11-8-1)
Proctor (12-7-2)
The events of this week have solidified the top 4 in this section in my opinion, but Hermantown should roll through, especially if Rogers is able to beat Cathedral again.

6A
Sartell-St Stephen (11-6-1)
Wilmar (10-7-3)
Little Falls (13-4-2)
Fergus Falls (9-8-3)
Detroit Lakes (12-8-1)
I will admit that my bias is toward most recent games, and section games, as apposed to whole season and common opponent games.

7A
Duluth Central (11-11)
Duluth Marshall (13-8-1)
Hibbing (13-7-1)
International Falls (8-9-1)
Virginia (16-7)
While Virginia did beat Central early in the season, their losses lately have dropped them. They play two more section opponents in the next two weeks to round out the season. The rankings of this section will be very confusing and I could see any of my top 3 getting the top seed.

8A
Lake of the Woods (14-5-2)
Thief River Falls (14-7-1)
Warroad (15-7)
Crookston (9-11-1)
East Grand Forks (8-12-1)
This section has turned into a 3 horse race. With Alex Lyon not leaving Lake of the Woods early, the Bears could still get the top seed in the section. With their early loss to Warroad being only by a goal, TRF beating Warroad recently and LOW beating TRF, they should be in the driver’s seat right now. I doubt they’d get seated at state even if they won their next seven games and were on a 14 game winning streak going into state, but a team with the best goalie in the state should never be counted out.

State Seeding if Section Top Seeds Won Their Section Today
#1 St Thomas
#2 Blake
#3 Hermantown
#4 Duluth Marshall
[5] Lake of the Woods
[6] Rochester Lourdes
[7] Sartell-St Stephen
[8] New Ulm
Last edited by HShockeywatcher on Sun Feb 06, 2011 9:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
hockeydad
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Post by hockeydad »

By what basis do you give Red Wing the fourth seed in Section 1A? they are 1-5 in section games, losing the Lourdes, Albert Lea, Northfield and New Prague twice, while beating Northfield the second time around. Are you going just on the school's reputation? Are you giving them credit for the overtime loss to Lourdes? Just wondering.

Also, your poll at the top of this week's threat leaves off a choice of staying with two sections.
karl(east)
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Re: Class A Rankings 2-6-11

Post by karl(east) »

HShockeywatcher wrote:It may not technically be Sunday yet, but I guess this is what it'll take to get my rankings out before karl 8)
Cheater. :P

Still waiting on one score...
shins
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Re: Class A Rankings 2-6-11

Post by shins »

HShockeywatcher wrote: 6A
Sartell-St Stephen (11-6-1)
Wilmar (10-7-3)
Detroit Lakes (12-8-1)
Little Falls (13-4-2)
Fergus Falls (9-8-3)
How do you Little Falls supporters justify the Detroit Lakes loss? Recent games put the standing like this with mostly using section opponent games. I will admit I am not considering many non-section games, but my opinion is that it is not necessary with the amount of section games. Should be a great tournament.
OK, now I can't tell if you are throwing these things in for fun or just trying to rile everyone up :shock: This must be about the 3rd week in a row that you have knocked LF down for a game they didn't lose. Little Falls is 16-3-2 and beat Detroit Lakes last night 5-3.

** For the record I am not ragging on you... it just made me laugh a little. If anyone actually thinks that a person could have deep knowledge of every team from every corner of the state, they are kidding themselves. Thanks for putting this together.

LF is a good, young team (not great) that is made up of mostly sophomores . They are capable of playing every team tight, but don't have any superstars that can take the game over. This was a rough week as they lost a very valuable member of the hockey community and father to two starters on the team, plus one of their two seniors is out for a while with an illness, and they keep finding ways to win.

I don't know how the seeding will sort out, but I would probably put Sartell at 1 due to their recent play and LF at 2, but they are probably interchangeable. Willmar at 3 and FF, Alex and DL muddling up the middle seeds. Any one of those teams could win the section.
HShockeywatcher
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Post by HShockeywatcher »

shins, you are right. It seems that the site I use likes to get things wrong with this team. Thanks for pointing it out though.

karl, what's up with no section standings this week? 8)
hockeydad wrote:By what basis do you give Red Wing the fourth seed in Section 1A? they are 1-5 in section games, losing the Lourdes, Albert Lea, Northfield and New Prague twice, while beating Northfield the second time around. Are you going just on the school's reputation? Are you giving them credit for the overtime loss to Lourdes? Just wondering.

Also, your poll at the top of this week's threat leaves off a choice of staying with two sections.


Looking at it now, I'll concede that New Prague will probably be #4, or at least ahead of Red Wing. I was using the fact that Red Wing "lost to Lourdes in OT and Albert Lea by 1" as it says in my comments.

I was debating putting 5 or 6 poll choices, but thought I'd leave it simple. I think from the choices available the middle choice would probably be the one if you want a two class system.
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Post by RangeHockeyFan1817 »

I don't really understand how Duluth Marshall is all the way up at the 6 spot, especially after losing to Central this week? I know they play a tough shedule but don't have any big wins, then they lose to Central and tied Hibbing earlier this season? I think they are WAY too high. I also don't get how Virginia dropped 6 spots this week after a loss to Grand Rapids which wasn't suprising and a win over Sartell. I really appreciate you taking the time to do this but I think section 7 is a little upside down. Central had a great win this week but head to head with Virginia lost 7-3 and when it comes to common opponents Central has played Cloquet 3 times and lost by at leat 3 goals each time, Virginia beat them. Central lost to Hopkins and Virginia beat them, and they both lost to Roseville. The only win Central has in common opponents is Hibbing. It's all still up in the air but I still think Hibbing and Virginia will get the top 2 spots, not sure which order until they play again on the 15th. (as long as Virginia doesn't lose to both Hibbing and Marshall)
Last edited by RangeHockeyFan1817 on Sun Feb 06, 2011 2:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
ryno44
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Post by ryno44 »

"A loss to Proctor doesn’t help Hibbing’s cause. I got a message early in the season from someone saying that the early loss was not a fluke and that Hibbing was out of their league playing Little Falls. It seems this is probably the case.

Hibbing was out of their league playing Little Falls?? seriously? Aren't you the same person saying the wins and loses early in the season don't matter right now? This weeks rankings are a joke.
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Post by pipersniper12 »

ryno44 wrote:"A loss to Proctor doesn’t help Hibbing’s cause. I got a message early in the season from someone saying that the early loss was not a fluke and that Hibbing was out of their league playing Little Falls. It seems this is probably the case.

Hibbing was out of their league playing Little Falls?? seriously? Aren't you the same person saying the wins and loses early in the season don't matter right now? This weeks rankings are a joke.
:lol: :lol: :lol:
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HawkeyPower
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Post by HawkeyPower »

Is there a reason why people get so offended by one persons rankings? I do't think the MSHSL takes these into consideration and then decides that your team will not be able to be in the Section playoffs. Let go of your anger!
dirtracing17
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Post by dirtracing17 »

if hibbing was out of there league playing little falls, is that why they tied your number 6, beat number 8,9 and 13. there most recent game was against i falls in there arena and beat them 7-0. your number 5 hermantown couldnt do that and i dont think anybody has beat them by that difference up there
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karl(east)
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Post by karl(east) »

HShockeywatcher wrote: karl, what's up with no section standings this week? 8)
I do them every other week--it's always been that way. The changes week-to-week (at least in AA) usually aren't drastic enough to warrant it.
HShockeywatcher
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Post by HShockeywatcher »

Hawkey, thanks for your comments.
I still think it's funny how every week karl gets posts in his thread simply thanking him for doing the rankings with no other context while I get hate messages week after week basically saying that the hours I put in through out the week are for not because I have screwed up where one team is ranked. Thanks for all the support guys ](*,)

As for the rest of you, I will briefly address a couple teams, but also refer you to read the comments stated before the rankings. The top 5 are who I believe are in a separate class than the rest. 2-12 I believe are above the rest and the rest are "my best guess at an order based on head to head and common opponent games."

Marshall - They have lost to 3 of my top 5 and played an OT game with Central, where they lost. For the most part, OT games in my eyes are just that. Even so, just like LOW beating TRF doesn't shoot them up 20 spots and TRF down 15, Central beating Marshall in OT doesn't do that either. They are above TRF, who they just beat and Central lost to.

Hibbing - The comments I made along with them were just that; comments. Recently they have beaten a Virginia team, who hasn't proven much this season, by 1 and lost to Central and Proctor. As stated above, the bottom 10 or 11 teams on my list could probably go in almost any order for a number of reasons, but I decided to drop them below Proctor.

Thanks for all of the positive comments.
WHAFightingSaints
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Post by WHAFightingSaints »

Attention Hibbing Fans.
Your're squad is 2-4 over the past couple of weeks.
You're team is not great, they are good and ranked about where they should be.
Save the self hype for sectionals.
RangeHockeyFan1817
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Post by RangeHockeyFan1817 »

HSHW- I certainly did not mean to sound like you don't do a good job, I look forward to your rankings every week and thought you have done a good job and I am sure you put TONS of time into them. And my frustration about Marshall is not just directed at you, they are ranked similarly elswhere and I just can't understand why and thought maybe I was missing something. Keep up the good work there will always be people who disagree but it doesn't take away from your effort :)
HawkeyPower
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Post by HawkeyPower »

HSHW. Just put Hibbing and Virginia at one every week and that will take care of the majority of the complaints. But you may have to alternate which one you list first because feelings may get hurt.
RangeHockeyFan1817
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Post by RangeHockeyFan1817 »

HawkeyPower wrote:HSHW. Just put Hibbing and Virginia at one every week and that will take care of the majority of the complaints. But you may have to alternate which one you list first because feelings may get hurt.
Where did anyone complain about Virginia being up much higher? I said that they shouldn't have dropped six spots but i don't think they should be in the top 10 as they stand right now, we'll see after their next two games. I also don't recall in any other week's posts Virginia fans complaining about where they're ranked. Hibbing on the other hand you have a point with lol
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Post by dirtracing17 »

HawkeyPower wrote:HSHW. Just put Hibbing and Virginia at one every week and that will take care of the majority of the complaints. But you may have to alternate which one you list first because feelings may get hurt.
tell me again where i was complaining. after there recent losses i wouldnt put them in the top 10. i was refering to the one from little falls saying it wasnt a fluke, which it wasnt but they later beat two teams they couldnt
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starmvp
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Post by starmvp »

Thank you for finally realizing where Breck belongs. Awesome work on the rankings once again, and congrats on getting them out before Karl :wink:
mitchrapp
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Post by mitchrapp »

dirtracing17 - maybe you should have worn a helmet or at least passed 4th grade english - "there" and "their" ????? lol :roll:
dirtracing17
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Post by dirtracing17 »

mitchrapp wrote:dirtracing17 - maybe you should have worn a helmet or at least passed 4th grade english - "there" and "their" ????? lol :roll:
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Post by scarlethockey33 »

6A, 7A and 8A are all ridiculously close first seeds will be interesting out of those classes, you have to think STA, Hermantown, Lourdes and Blake all lock #1 seeds in their given sections (1A, 2A, 4A, 5A), 3A has beaten each other up pretty bad, New Ulm has the slight edge over there despite losing to LDC and a pretty odd loss to a Chaska team (4-14) in OT, overall they've controlled that section otherwise all season long.

Will be quite an interesting Section Tournament across the board for Class A
mustangs29
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Post by mustangs29 »

According to these rankings...3 out of the 4 top teams in state are from sectiong 4A. Should make from some interesting section games. Will STA run away with this one or will their be an upset lerking?
HShockeywatcher
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Post by HShockeywatcher »

mustangs29 wrote:According to these rankings...3 out of the 4 top teams in state are from sectiong 4A. Should make from some interesting section games. Will STA run away with this one or will their be an upset lerking?
I have only seen one of these three teams play, but in the Cadets' last 3 games, they have shut out both Totino and SSP. I suspect the game between them to see who makes the final will be very good, but I hope St Thomas doesn't overlook the final.
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Post by PuckU126 »

HShockeywatcher wrote:
mustangs29 wrote:According to these rankings...3 out of the 4 top teams in state are from sectiong 4A. Should make from some interesting section games. Will STA run away with this one or will their be an upset lerking?
I have only seen one of these three teams play, but in the Cadets' last 3 games, they have shut out both Totino and SSP. I suspect the game between them to see who makes the final will be very good, but I hope St Thomas doesn't overlook the final.
It seems STA has a tendency to do this...

8)
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Post by defense »

Section 6a

We could argue who is #1, Sartell or Little Falls untill we are passed out from exhaustion, I'm okay with that. But if you are using section games to bias your seedings, you should realize that Willmar has 3 section losses. Little Falls has 2. Little Falls' section losses are to Willmar and Sartell. Willmar has a losses to Sartell, Alexandria, and Morris-Benson along with a tie against Apollo. I don't think Willmar gets the second seed.... even when using only section games.
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