bubblehockey27 wrote:I agree with TheSiouxSuck, the seedings absolutely kill the atmosphere of these games. A couple upsets here or there don't quite cut it for me. Look back to when there were no seedings...games were a lot closer, and there was a better atmosphere surrounding quarterfinal games.
Lose the seedings...
So that the top two teams in the tournament can meet in the first round? The seedings do a great job of weeding out the teams from weak sections that, quite frankly, don't deserve to be there. The atmosphere may not be as good during the first day of games but the atmosphere at the semifinals and championship games more than makes up for it. In my opinion, they should seed all 8 teams.
people saying teams from weaker sections dont deserve to be at the tournament. according to you lakeville north didnt deserve to be there but yet somehow managed to beat 2 teams from deserving sections..
i would agree with this statement, lakeville north definitely shut a lot of people up by winning the consi,
things i dislike about the tournament, seeing the poor sportsmanship by STA, the cadets themselves for being so rude, and the final game of the weekend because it means its over
Bands, boosters and students not showing up for the 3rd place game.
Back when folks had some heart, they'd show up and support a team that is still one of the top eight in the biggest amateur spectacle in the whole damn nation.
Second worst?
No adult beverages for the adults...We can't buy what a bunch of the kids are smuggling in.
warriors41 wrote:People referring to the Class A tournament as the "JV Tourny."
I think called the Class A tourney the "JV Tourney" hits the nail right on the head. They aren't the best team in high school hockey at the highest level, they are the best team of the weaker class. They are the "junior" best team. Would it be better to call them the "B-Level Champs"?
warriors41 wrote:People referring to the Class A tournament as the "JV Tourny."
I think called the Class A tourney the "JV Tourney" hits the nail right on the head. They aren't the best team in high school hockey at the highest level, they are the best team of the weaker class. They are the "junior" best team. Would it be better to call them the "B-Level Champs"?
So according to you, with Football having 5 classes, only the AAAAA teams can call themselves Varsity, the AAAA teams are JV, the AAA teams are JJV, the AA teams are JJJV the A teams are JJJJV, & the 9-man teams are JJJJJV? Rediculous thinking!
2good4u wrote:seeing the poor sportsmanship by STA, the cadets themselves for being so rude
Sorry your evidence doesn't cut it. Beating New Um 13-2, a kid pointing at the scoreboard, Coach Vannelli barking at an official & the ridiculous debate about JROTC does not add up to "poor sportsmanship" or "rude" cadets.
The fact is STA and Hermantown played the best game of the entire weekend. The STA kids all in dress uniform and the great Hermantown student section added to a fabulous battle and display of skill on the ice by both teams.
Sheetice wrote:To watch a true class aa team win the class a tournament.(why would you want to win the small one when you have a good chance of winning the big one ??)
How about sitting next to an STA alum and hearing that STA is "exactly where they should be" in Class A because they're a small school. Funny how small schools like Benilde, Roseau and Hill can opt up but three time Class A champ STA can't.
warriors41 wrote:People referring to the Class A tournament as the "JV Tourny."
I think called the Class A tourney the "JV Tourney" hits the nail right on the head. They aren't the best team in high school hockey at the highest level, they are the best team of the weaker class. They are the "junior" best team. Would it be better to call them the "B-Level Champs"?
So according to you, with Football having 5 classes, only the AAAAA teams can call themselves Varsity, the AAAA teams are JV, the AAA teams are JJV, the AA teams are JJJV the A teams are JJJJV, & the 9-man teams are JJJJJV? Rediculous thinking!
That's correct. There can only be one "first place". It used to be that way until we had this societal change that made us want to have "multiple champions" so more kids can get trophies and feel good about themselves.
Call it whatever you like: "AAAAA", "AAAA", "AAA", it's all the same as "A", "B", and "C"....or "Varsity" and "Junior Varsity"...doesn't make any difference, only semantics. There can only be ONE "best" Boys High School hockey team every season. At the youth level, we call it the "A" State Tourney and the "B" State Tourney. At HS, we call it the "AA" State Tourney and the "A" State Tourney.....the only difference is we changed the name of the classes. So, "AA" or "A" or "Tier I" or "Tier II" or "Varsity" or "Junior Varsity", it doesn't matter. It's all the same.
This all leads me to wonder.....if the MSHSL changed the names from "AA" and "A" to "A" and "B"....would we see some teams like STA make the jump up in class so they don't get referred to as the "B" State Champs???
2good4u wrote:seeing the poor sportsmanship by STA, the cadets themselves for being so rude
Sorry your evidence doesn't cut it. Beating New Um 13-2, a kid pointing at the scoreboard, Coach Vannelli barking at an official & the ridiculous debate about JROTC does not add up to "poor sportsmanship" or "rude" cadets.
The fact is STA and Hermantown played the best game of the entire weekend. The STA kids all in dress uniform and the great Hermantown student section added to a fabulous battle and display of skill on the ice by both teams.
2good4u wrote:seeing the poor sportsmanship by STA, the cadets themselves for being so rude
Sorry your evidence doesn't cut it. Beating New Um 13-2, a kid pointing at the scoreboard, Coach Vannelli barking at an official & the ridiculous debate about JROTC does not add up to "poor sportsmanship" or "rude" cadets.
The fact is STA and Hermantown played the best game of the entire weekend. The STA kids all in dress uniform and the great Hermantown student section added to a fabulous battle and display of skill on the ice by both teams.
Wow could you not be more wrong on this one...
Care to make an argument to go along with that statement. It was a great tournament. All 3 Duluth East games - vs. WBL, Edina & EP - were classic OT hockey games. My only complaint about the championship game - I was there for that one - was that the OT was ugly. Both teams slowed down and EP won on an ugly goal - a fabulous effort by Kyle Rau - but ugly nonetheless. The STA-Hermantown game was full of up and down hockey, great passing plays and beautiful goals. Hermantown had a ton of great chances to win. I wish they did.
stpaul wrote:
Sorry your evidence doesn't cut it. Beating New Um 13-2, a kid pointing at the scoreboard, Coach Vannelli barking at an official & the ridiculous debate about JROTC does not add up to "poor sportsmanship" or "rude" cadets.
The fact is STA and Hermantown played the best game of the entire weekend. The STA kids all in dress uniform and the great Hermantown student section added to a fabulous battle and display of skill on the ice by both teams.
Wow could you not be more wrong on this one...
Care to make an argument to go along with that statement. It was a great tournament. All 3 Duluth East games - vs. WBL, Edina & EP - were classic OT hockey games. My only complaint about the championship game - I was there for that one - was that the OT was ugly. Both teams slowed down and EP won on an ugly goal - a fabulous effort by Kyle Rau - but ugly nonetheless. The STA-Hermantown game was full of up and down hockey, great passing plays and beautiful goals. Hermantown had a ton of great chances to win. I wish they did.
Im not even saying this as a East fan.. Im saying this as a spectator.. IMO the Edina and east games were better than STA/Htown.. WBL was trapping and it was annoying ... But still a good game.. If you dont think East and Edina /EP were playing some outstanding hockey, with up and down plays, and textbook passing/ powerplays and forechecking, I dont think we were watching the same game..
STA started to blow out Htown on shots, and the tempo wasn't nearly as good as the big boys..
mj79 wrote:
Wow could you not be more wrong on this one...
Care to make an argument to go along with that statement. It was a great tournament. All 3 Duluth East games - vs. WBL, Edina & EP - were classic OT hockey games. My only complaint about the championship game - I was there for that one - was that the OT was ugly. Both teams slowed down and EP won on an ugly goal - a fabulous effort by Kyle Rau - but ugly nonetheless. The STA-Hermantown game was full of up and down hockey, great passing plays and beautiful goals. Hermantown had a ton of great chances to win. I wish they did.
Im not even saying this as a East fan.. Im saying this as a spectator.. IMO the Edina and east games were better than STA/Htown.. WBL was trapping and it was annoying ... But still a good game.. If you dont think East and Edina /EP were playing some outstanding hockey, with up and down plays, and textbook passing/ powerplays and forechecking, I dont think we were watching the same game..
STA started to blow out Htown on shots, and the tempo wasn't nearly as good as the big boys..
Before ya get too high on that horse....if recollection serves me right, Hermantown did hang with the "big boys" this year, in their own building.
stpaul wrote:
Care to make an argument to go along with that statement. It was a great tournament. All 3 Duluth East games - vs. WBL, Edina & EP - were classic OT hockey games. My only complaint about the championship game - I was there for that one - was that the OT was ugly. Both teams slowed down and EP won on an ugly goal - a fabulous effort by Kyle Rau - but ugly nonetheless. The STA-Hermantown game was full of up and down hockey, great passing plays and beautiful goals. Hermantown had a ton of great chances to win. I wish they did.
Im not even saying this as a East fan.. Im saying this as a spectator.. IMO the Edina and east games were better than STA/Htown.. WBL was trapping and it was annoying ... But still a good game.. If you dont think East and Edina /EP were playing some outstanding hockey, with up and down plays, and textbook passing/ powerplays and forechecking, I dont think we were watching the same game..
STA started to blow out Htown on shots, and the tempo wasn't nearly as good as the big boys..
Before ya get too high on that horse....if recollection serves me right, Hermantown did hang with the "big boys" this year, in their own building.
Shocking this turns into A - AA/A battle.. I meant the big boys in the tournament East/EP was a better game than STA/Htown.. period.. that how me and many others see it
I do have to admit that I played poker on Friday night. We did have the Edina-Duluth East game on, but it did not have my undivided attention. However I won about $30, which I in turn spent on Saturday night for 2 tickets to the final. Unbelievable that we could walk up to the ticket window and get pretty good upper level seats right before game time. There - I pulled hard for Duluth East. You have to give me points for that.
I thought the EP/Duluth East game was a bit ugly from start to finish. A lot more dump and chase by both teams than in earlier games. I suppose this is a sign of just how difficult it was to move the puck. Good defense, but not real pretty.
I don't get the whole "who is the best" argument between "A" and "AA". Do you really think that Rau's freak goal in OT proves that EP is better than East? If the purpose of the tournament was to find the "best" team they would play series, not brackets. In my opinion the HS hockey tournament is all about spectacle and showcasing hockey. Viewed that way the 16 team, two tiered tournament is very effective.
I agree with whoever else said it. The worst think about the tournament is that it is over.
luckyEPDad wrote:I thought the EP/Duluth East game was a bit ugly from start to finish. A lot more dump and chase by both teams than in earlier games. I suppose this is a sign of just how difficult it was to move the puck. Good defense, but not real pretty.
I don't get the whole "who is the best" argument between "A" and "AA". Do you really think that Rau's freak goal in OT proves that EP is better than East? If the purpose of the tournament was to find the "best" team they would play series, not brackets. In my opinion the HS hockey tournament is all about spectacle and showcasing hockey. Viewed that way the 16 team, two tiered tournament is very effective.
I agree with whoever else said it. The worst think about the tournament is that it is over.
I disagree. You can quibble over the word "best"....but the champion at the end of any playoff/tournament is considered the "champ", "top dog", whatever you want to call it.
I miss the days of crowning THE Boys/Girls High School Hockey "Champion".
I know it's a pipe dream, but if I could have my way I'd change the format to have 8 sections in Minnesota (no "AA" and "A"). Top 2 teams from each section make the tournament. Seed those teams in a 16 team format and go from there. Or go with 16 separate sections with the champ of each section advancing to the single tournament....either way would be acceptable.
We'd see a packed house game after game. Not an empty building during the day and a full one at night. The glory of the Tournament would TRULY be restored to what it once was.
muckandgrind wrote:
I think called the Class A tourney the "JV Tourney" hits the nail right on the head. They aren't the best team in high school hockey at the highest level, they are the best team of the weaker class. They are the "junior" best team. Would it be better to call them the "B-Level Champs"?
So according to you, with Football having 5 classes, only the AAAAA teams can call themselves Varsity, the AAAA teams are JV, the AAA teams are JJV, the AA teams are JJJV the A teams are JJJJV, & the 9-man teams are JJJJJV? Rediculous thinking!
That's correct. There can only be one "first place". It used to be that way until we had this societal change that made us want to have "multiple champions" so more kids can get trophies and feel good about themselves.
Call it whatever you like: "AAAAA", "AAAA", "AAA", it's all the same as "A", "B", and "C"....or "Varsity" and "Junior Varsity"...doesn't make any difference, only semantics. There can only be ONE "best" Boys High School hockey team every season. At the youth level, we call it the "A" State Tourney and the "B" State Tourney. At HS, we call it the "AA" State Tourney and the "A" State Tourney.....the only difference is we changed the name of the classes. So, "AA" or "A" or "Tier I" or "Tier II" or "Varsity" or "Junior Varsity", it doesn't matter. It's all the same.
This all leads me to wonder.....if the MSHSL changed the names from "AA" and "A" to "A" and "B"....would we see some teams like STA make the jump up in class so they don't get referred to as the "B" State Champs???
Except in the case of A and B teams, its in reference to a single towns numbers and talent. A team like Alexandria, Little Falls, or New Ulm probably has about 25-30 kids at each level to fill out an A and a B team. A town like Wayzata, EP,or Blaine has 75+ at each level to fill out an A team, multiple B teams, multiple B2 teams, and even some C teams.
I dont see your failed comparision of AA hockey being "A" hockey and A hockey being "B" hockey. The top end talent at each class is similiar, its just comparing the 11th best kid on an AA team to the 11th best kid on an A team where you see a major difference.
new2coachin wrote:
So according to you, with Football having 5 classes, only the AAAAA teams can call themselves Varsity, the AAAA teams are JV, the AAA teams are JJV, the AA teams are JJJV the A teams are JJJJV, & the 9-man teams are JJJJJV? Rediculous thinking!
That's correct. There can only be one "first place". It used to be that way until we had this societal change that made us want to have "multiple champions" so more kids can get trophies and feel good about themselves.
Call it whatever you like: "AAAAA", "AAAA", "AAA", it's all the same as "A", "B", and "C"....or "Varsity" and "Junior Varsity"...doesn't make any difference, only semantics. There can only be ONE "best" Boys High School hockey team every season. At the youth level, we call it the "A" State Tourney and the "B" State Tourney. At HS, we call it the "AA" State Tourney and the "A" State Tourney.....the only difference is we changed the name of the classes. So, "AA" or "A" or "Tier I" or "Tier II" or "Varsity" or "Junior Varsity", it doesn't matter. It's all the same.
This all leads me to wonder.....if the MSHSL changed the names from "AA" and "A" to "A" and "B"....would we see some teams like STA make the jump up in class so they don't get referred to as the "B" State Champs???
Except in the case of A and B teams, its in reference to a single towns numbers and talent. A team like Alexandria, Little Falls, or New Ulm probably has about 25-30 kids at each level to fill out an A and a B team. A town like Wayzata, EP,or Blaine has 75+ at each level to fill out an A team, multiple B teams, multiple B2 teams, and even some C teams.
I dont see your failed comparision of AA hockey being "A" hockey and A hockey being "B" hockey. The top end talent at each class is similiar, its just comparing the 11th best kid on an AA team to the 11th best kid on an A team where you see a major difference.
Nope...there, you see, you're wrong here. Are you saying that the top 10 players in a pool of 75 wouldn't be any better than the top 10 players in a pool of 40 players, generally speaking?? I say "contraire".
The deeper the pool, the greater chance of landing multiple "elite" level players. It's not just about the 11th player, it's about the 2nd thru 10th players as well.
If it's true, as you seems to suggest, that "A" hockey is played at the virtually the same level as "AA" hockey....then you would agree that we should get rid of the "A" tournament altogether and go with the top 16 teams in the State, regardless of school size.
muckandgrind wrote:
That's correct. There can only be one "first place". It used to be that way until we had this societal change that made us want to have "multiple champions" so more kids can get trophies and feel good about themselves.
Call it whatever you like: "AAAAA", "AAAA", "AAA", it's all the same as "A", "B", and "C"....or "Varsity" and "Junior Varsity"...doesn't make any difference, only semantics. There can only be ONE "best" Boys High School hockey team every season. At the youth level, we call it the "A" State Tourney and the "B" State Tourney. At HS, we call it the "AA" State Tourney and the "A" State Tourney.....the only difference is we changed the name of the classes. So, "AA" or "A" or "Tier I" or "Tier II" or "Varsity" or "Junior Varsity", it doesn't matter. It's all the same.
This all leads me to wonder.....if the MSHSL changed the names from "AA" and "A" to "A" and "B"....would we see some teams like STA make the jump up in class so they don't get referred to as the "B" State Champs???
Except in the case of A and B teams, its in reference to a single towns numbers and talent. A team like Alexandria, Little Falls, or New Ulm probably has about 25-30 kids at each level to fill out an A and a B team. A town like Wayzata, EP,or Blaine has 75+ at each level to fill out an A team, multiple B teams, multiple B2 teams, and even some C teams.
I dont see your failed comparision of AA hockey being "A" hockey and A hockey being "B" hockey. The top end talent at each class is similiar, its just comparing the 11th best kid on an AA team to the 11th best kid on an A team where you see a major difference.
Nope...there, you see, you're wrong here. Are you saying that the top 10 players in a pool of 75 wouldn't be any better than the top 10 players in a pool of 40 players, generally speaking?? I say "contraire".
The deeper the pool, the greater chance of landing multiple "elite" level players. It's not just about the 11th player, it's about the 2nd thru 10th players as well.
If it's true, as you seems to suggest, that "A" hockey is played at the virtually the same level as "AA" hockey....then you would agree that we should get rid of the "A" tournament altogether and go with the top 16 teams in the State, regardless of school size.
You are focusing too much on the 11th player (which was a number I just randomly chose). My point is that a kid like TJ Oshie or Matt Niskanen isnt any less of a player than Nick Leddy or Nick Bjugstad because one played A and another played AA.
I guess I should revise my post and not use such a random number and say the difference in A and AA isnt the top end players (which I would suggest would be the top 2-3 on most teams) it would be the talent developed as you move into your 2nd and third lines/defensive pairings.
Due to that reason and the availability of players for small and large schools, there is definately a need to keep the two class system.
