Another Program Gone for Next Year

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Neuuman
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Post by Neuuman » Wed Mar 14, 2012 12:00 am

northwoods oldtimer wrote:Sad to say but hockey is a rich mans sport. It is going faster into that direction even to the point of taking middle class families out of the sport. Now with no industry it will only get worse and worse. an example up on the range where the mines supported youth hockey, built facilities for hockey and funded that start of many programs those mines are now foreign owned. With the Magnitation start up this could potentially be a much needed shot in the arm for hockey in the region. However foreign owned mines do not care about local communities. It used to be a blue collar sport but now the only ones who can afford it are the lawyer kids. That is very bad for hockey and long term health of this sport in the USA. You can count on the fact the USA hockey could care less about it. Sure they make a big PR splash on a single minority kid playing hockey out east but where are the dollars to support growing the sport? Oh yes out at Ann Arbor wasted on some kids labeled elite. I am with you on this. If USA hockey cared about growing the sport they would make bold moves to restore some level of resource to a grass roots movement to grow and develop the sport at the youth levels. No reason the kids over at Leech Lake, Red Lake should not be playing this great sport also to promote healthy positive programs for the young people. The sport is currently a structured mess by forcing kids to travel so much at such a young age. Time to reinvent some practical steps to grow the game. How about house leagues once again!? I think it is time for them once again in this hockey culture that has turned to all about winning. Who says we have to play travel hockey at squirt and pee wee level. How about some affordable alternatives to bleeding middle class folks dry and burning out coaches, kids and parents by the time they reach bantam age. The games needs pioneers to think outside the norm and help stimulate healthy ways to get the game back to the kids they should serve.
Boo hoo - and I agree - I played in house leagues as a youth and I can't tell you how many kids I played with that went on to big time hockey. Oh, wait, I can. ZERO. Quit whining about "how tough it is up north" and buck up and get better already. Playing puck shouldn't be about "advancing", it should be about TEAM and having fun.

JDUBBS1280
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Re: Another Program Gone for Next Year

Post by JDUBBS1280 » Wed Mar 14, 2012 8:24 am

F14 wrote:From Star Tribune North section:

North Metro (Coop of Park Center, Brooklyn Center, Fridley and Columbia Heights) will not be playing hockey at HS level it was announced. It said they would only have somewhere in the teens for total players for the 4 schools next year. WOW

Kind of ironic that Park Center under Gary Stefano made state in 93 and he gets to here about that the day before his Crimson make their first appearance. Writing was on the wall for years. I also remember Heights with Reggie Miracle made it in 83 (won state bantam A in 80 with only 30 bantams in total program) and now the 4-schools of the coop would only have had somewhere in the teens next year for all grades.

I remember in 2001 BC, Fridley and Heights decided to fold up shop and form Tri-City for youth and HS. After 5- years the numbers were still falling so badly they went with Brooklyn Park (Park Center).

Just one man's opinion, but changing demographics in those communities is a huge factor but when you COOP you lose any identity to a specific school and driving up to 85th and Zane isn't too appealing. Park Center also is not a good school from what I have heard.

I remember is 01 Fridley and Heights and BC were really struggling but they had around 70 players for the 3 communities at HS level. Now they have about 5-6 in the current HS coop. From 70 to a handful. OUCH How sad.

I think recruting and retaining minorities to try and continue with hockey is imperative if the sport is ever going to grow in Minnesota especially in the inner city, small outstate areas, or first ring suburbs. Keeping the cost down will be the only way to retain a lot of these kids as hockey is a rich man's game.

Look at Mpls, 7 schools feeding one Coop team. I saw them play and over 95% of players were from SW and Washburn, so much for recruiting any from any of the other 5 schools or peeking intererest in hockey. I know one of my sons friends (Black kid) claimed 3 times this season he was called a Nig___r by different players and once last season.

Not trying to make any enemies, just saddened by fewer kids continuing to play hockey in communities where they truly need more athletic opportunities not less.



Goodbye Sleepy Eye in the fall and North Metro. I wonder if Cooper will be merging with Armstrong shortly since their girls program is now merged and youth.
This is a great read. Canada has been dealing with declining registrations for years (it is estimated their registrations could fall by as much as 200,000 in the next 10 years) and have been trying to get more minorities to play hockey.

http://boxscorenews.com/saving-canadian ... 007-90.htm

northwoods oldtimer
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Re: Another Program Gone for Next Year

Post by northwoods oldtimer » Wed Mar 14, 2012 8:50 am

JDUBBS1280 wrote:
F14 wrote:From Star Tribune North section:

North Metro (Coop of Park Center, Brooklyn Center, Fridley and Columbia Heights) will not be playing hockey at HS level it was announced. It said they would only have somewhere in the teens for total players for the 4 schools next year. WOW

Kind of ironic that Park Center under Gary Stefano made state in 93 and he gets to here about that the day before his Crimson make their first appearance. Writing was on the wall for years. I also remember Heights with Reggie Miracle made it in 83 (won state bantam A in 80 with only 30 bantams in total program) and now the 4-schools of the coop would only have had somewhere in the teens next year for all grades.

I remember in 2001 BC, Fridley and Heights decided to fold up shop and form Tri-City for youth and HS. After 5- years the numbers were still falling so badly they went with Brooklyn Park (Park Center).

Just one man's opinion, but changing demographics in those communities is a huge factor but when you COOP you lose any identity to a specific school and driving up to 85th and Zane isn't too appealing. Park Center also is not a good school from what I have heard.

I remember is 01 Fridley and Heights and BC were really struggling but they had around 70 players for the 3 communities at HS level. Now they have about 5-6 in the current HS coop. From 70 to a handful. OUCH How sad.

I think recruting and retaining minorities to try and continue with hockey is imperative if the sport is ever going to grow in Minnesota especially in the inner city, small outstate areas, or first ring suburbs. Keeping the cost down will be the only way to retain a lot of these kids as hockey is a rich man's game.

Look at Mpls, 7 schools feeding one Coop team. I saw them play and over 95% of players were from SW and Washburn, so much for recruiting any from any of the other 5 schools or peeking intererest in hockey. I know one of my sons friends (Black kid) claimed 3 times this season he was called a Nig___r by different players and once last season.

Not trying to make any enemies, just saddened by fewer kids continuing to play hockey in communities where they truly need more athletic opportunities not less.



Goodbye Sleepy Eye in the fall and North Metro. I wonder if Cooper will be merging with Armstrong shortly since their girls program is now merged and youth.
This is a great read. Canada has been dealing with declining registrations for years (it is estimated their registrations could fall by as much as 200,000 in the next 10 years) and have been trying to get more minorities to play hockey.

http://boxscorenews.com/saving-canadian ... 007-90.htm
JDUBBS thanks for finding that source on Canada I was going to search for a link but you beat me to it. No doubt about it, the dynamics of the game are changing rapidly.

gardetto
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Post by gardetto » Wed Mar 14, 2012 9:15 am

greybeard58 wrote:The youth association does not recruit, my grandson lives in Brooklyn Center and nothing has been advertised at the local area. When calls have been made no one has taken the time to return them. The question is why would a person have their child join an organization that gives the perception of not being interested. Where has District 3 been all this time? What has the Mn Hockey VP of planning and their committees come up with to help struggling associations?
That is sad,

observer
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Post by observer » Wed Mar 14, 2012 10:33 am

The recruiting committee is the most important role in every association but in several instances isn't getting the continuous pro-active effort needed. Now is the time for the recruiting committee to be meeting and discussing plans for attracting new mites for the fall.

Set goals for attracting new mites. I like to say 30 new boys and 20 new girls each fall but obviously that isn't possible for a number of associations. But, you do need to recruit double the number of new mites as you have graduate out of the program each year. Graduate 8 bantams out of the association and make sure you add 16-20 new mite boys.

The Districts and MN Hockey both have available funds to help reimburse association recruiting expenses.

grindiangrad-80
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Post by grindiangrad-80 » Wed Mar 14, 2012 7:57 pm

I believe the cost of all youth sports has changed the dynamic for everyone.
Kids used to get themselves to practice and the parents just showed up for the games.
Now that parents have to put up a small fortune so their kids can play they are way more involved. They need to see a return on their money.
Some of the involvement is great. There are many great parents out there helping make the programs better.
Unfortunately, there are plenty out there who are more interested in getting their own kid playing time that they will do whatever they have to , to make that happen.
The kids who grow up with little or no money are left behind. Not many people are going to go to bat for someone who can't afford to play. They don't want to create anymore competition for the available roster spots.
I've lived in Wisconsin for 30 years now and I see these things with all sports over here.
I would imagine it's the same with hockey in Minnesota.
I guess the world is always changing, but I still think the group of ragtag kids riding their bikes to the ballfield with a glove hanging on the handlebars was having more fun than the group today getting out of the minivan.

If you need me, I'll be in my rocker drinking a warm milk. :)
Go Injuns 2013.

northwoods oldtimer
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Post by northwoods oldtimer » Thu Mar 15, 2012 7:38 am

grindiangrad-80 wrote:I believe the cost of all youth sports has changed the dynamic for everyone.
Kids used to get themselves to practice and the parents just showed up for the games.
Now that parents have to put up a small fortune so their kids can play they are way more involved. They need to see a return on their money.
Some of the involvement is great. There are many great parents out there helping make the programs better.
Unfortunately, there are plenty out there who are more interested in getting their own kid playing time that they will do whatever they have to , to make that happen.
The kids who grow up with little or no money are left behind. Not many people are going to go to bat for someone who can't afford to play. They don't want to create anymore competition for the available roster spots.

I've lived in Wisconsin for 30 years now and I see these things with all sports over here.
I would imagine it's the same with hockey in Minnesota.
I guess the world is always changing, but I still think the group of ragtag kids riding their bikes to the ballfield with a glove hanging on the handlebars was having more fun than the group today getting out of the minivan.

If you need me, I'll be in my rocker drinking a warm milk. :)
Go Injuns 2013.
grindiangrad-80 - your top quote represents hockey board and hockey coaching as it exists today. This is a major problem in Grand Rapids I can assure you of that.

Your analogy to days gone by are 100 percent correct!!

You hit the nail on the head their with you post. By the way top 10 post for sure not much else needs to be mentioned when USA hockey scratches their head wondering where all the player (dollars) are? :!:

Govie
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Re: Another Program Gone for Next Year

Post by Govie » Thu Mar 15, 2012 1:34 pm

F14 wrote: Just one man's opinion, but changing demographics in those communities is a huge factor.
It's alright to say it. Scream it. Does not make you a RACIST. Jeez, we've become so afraid of the label now that we dare talk about race, especially we Caucasians.

Johnson is going through exactly the same dilemma. I am a tad surprised to see CH and Fridley have difficulty, but I guess the ghetto crowd is infiltrating those areas.

It's so sad to see these areas/programs die a slow painful death, especially one as storied as the Govs with such a proud alum. :?

BTW, Johnson's baseball teams even are having a hard time fielding players. There was actually an article in the Pioneer the other day about the District getting sued by JV coach because he was let because he is white and can't attract enough Asians. Sheesh. :roll:

ropadope
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Re: Another Program Gone for Next Year

Post by ropadope » Thu Mar 15, 2012 2:33 pm

Govie wrote: It's alright to say it. Scream it. Does not make you a RACIST. Jeez, we've become so afraid of the label now that we dare talk about race, especially we Caucasians.

Johnson is going through exactly the same dilemma. I am a tad surprised to see CH and Fridley have difficulty, but I guess the ghetto crowd is infiltrating those areas.

It's so sad to see these areas/programs die a slow painful death, especially one as storied as the Govs with such a proud alum. :?

BTW, Johnson's baseball teams even are having a hard time fielding players. There was actually an article in the Pioneer the other day about the District getting sued by JV coach because he was let because he is white and can't attract enough Asians. Sheesh. :roll:
"ghetto crowd"? Seriously? Yeah, I have no idea how anyone could take that as racist... :shock:

Govie
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Re: Another Program Gone for Next Year

Post by Govie » Thu Mar 15, 2012 2:42 pm

ropadope wrote:
Govie wrote: It's alright to say it. Scream it. Does not make you a RACIST. Jeez, we've become so afraid of the label now that we dare talk about race, especially we Caucasians.

Johnson is going through exactly the same dilemma. I am a tad surprised to see CH and Fridley have difficulty, but I guess the ghetto crowd is infiltrating those areas.

It's so sad to see these areas/programs die a slow painful death, especially one as storied as the Govs with such a proud alum. :?

BTW, Johnson's baseball teams even are having a hard time fielding players. There was actually an article in the Pioneer the other day about the District getting sued by JV coach because he was let because he is white and can't attract enough Asians. Sheesh. :roll:
"ghetto crowd"? Seriously? Yeah, I have no idea how anyone could take that as racist... :shock:
Not quite sure what you mean. :shock:

Is "ghetto" a race? If so, which one? And if you have one in mind, may I ask why and how you could come to such a conclusion?

goaliewithfoggedglasses
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Re: Another Program Gone for Next Year

Post by goaliewithfoggedglasses » Thu Mar 15, 2012 2:52 pm

Govie wrote:
F14 wrote: Just one man's opinion, but changing demographics in those communities is a huge factor.
It's alright to say it. Scream it. Does not make you a RACIST. Jeez, we've become so afraid of the label now that we dare talk about race, especially we Caucasians.
No, it's not racist.
Govie wrote: but I guess the ghetto crowd is infiltrating those areas.
Now this on the other hand.....

Govie
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Re: Another Program Gone for Next Year

Post by Govie » Thu Mar 15, 2012 3:09 pm

goaliewithfoggedglasses wrote:
Govie wrote:
F14 wrote: Just one man's opinion, but changing demographics in those communities is a huge factor.
It's alright to say it. Scream it. Does not make you a RACIST. Jeez, we've become so afraid of the label now that we dare talk about race, especially we Caucasians.
No, it's not racist.
Govie wrote: but I guess the ghetto crowd is infiltrating those areas.
Now this on the other hand.....
Please do explain. :o

east hockey
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Post by east hockey » Thu Mar 15, 2012 3:33 pm

You have got to be freaking kidding me on this topic.

Lee
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BBgunner
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Post by BBgunner » Thu Mar 15, 2012 4:31 pm

Heights and Fridley have an age issue more than a ghetto issue. My family still lives there many of the homes there are still the older people who have been there for 40+ years and no longer have kids feeding into the schools. Its not just hockey getting cut for these schools but some of the other sports soccer, baseball and basketball I have heard have had issues even the football team has fewer kids than wanted or needed.
Either way Govie or anyone else on this thread all have valid points, in some cases ethnicity does play a role, economics does play a role, age of community does play a role, and most importantly community does play a role. Ponds and Parks are not as prevelant anymore more communities are not putting up outdoor ice where any kid can just go play. We are cutting costs and outdoor rinks seems to be one of the first cuts made. Hockey is a culture in some communities, in the cities no sport is a culture.

BlueLineSpecial
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Post by BlueLineSpecial » Thu Mar 15, 2012 4:41 pm

I think its okay to discuss demographics as they play a role in high school sports. I wouldn't go using words like ghetto, though. The truth is that historic city programs are going to have unique challenges as cities and inner circle suburbs change. And 'change' doesn't have to mean race.

Bottom line, as long as the state of Minnesota is mired in freezing cold half the year, hockey will be alive and well. Parents, former players, coaches, teaches, civic leaders: get kids involved and interested in hockey, regardless of geographics! Its a great game and once kids experience it, they'll love it.

Govie
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Post by Govie » Thu Mar 15, 2012 5:47 pm

Yeah "ghetto" seems to have ruffled some feathers around here. I'm not a very politically correct person, and it amuses me to see people get so bent out of shape about the most trivial stuff nowadays. :lol: Not trying to blanket one demographic or another but just seems that with the elevated crime rate (and since I was born in the 80s until now there is no doubt it has grown) seems to have seen an entire middle class community with plenty of bloodlines brought up through the program sort of disappear and move to the 'burbs, although there are still plenty of great people around here.

hockey59
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Post by hockey59 » Thu Mar 15, 2012 9:07 pm

Sad North Metro no longer has the numbers to field a team. At one time the BPYHA had a strong program...as recently as 2003-2004 made it to Bantam A State.

Only positve is the NWSC will now be down to 10 teams (instead of 11) meaning 18 conference games and 7 non-con. (as opposed to 20 conf. games and 5 non-conf.) which is too high when you're limitied to 25 Regular Season games. Remaining NWSC teams are:

Andover
Anoka
Blaine
Centennial
Champlin Park
Coon Rapids
Elk River
Maple Grove
Osseo
Robbinsdale Armstrong

With Coon Rapids opening (exceptionally nice) new rink this year...hopefully they will begin rising again and the transfers will slow down (largely to Blaine)...the other 9 teams make for a very deep and tough conference.

LetsPlayHockey22
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Post by LetsPlayHockey22 » Thu Mar 15, 2012 9:21 pm

hockey59 wrote:Sad North Metro no longer has the numbers to field a team. At one time the BPYHA had a strong program...as recently as 2003-2004 made it to Bantam A State.

Only positve is the NWSC will now be down to 10 teams (instead of 11) meaning 18 conference games and 7 non-con. (as opposed to 20 conf. games and 5 non-conf.) which is too high when you're limitied to 25 Regular Season games. Remaining NWSC teams are:

Andover
Anoka
Blaine
Centennial
Champlin Park
Coon Rapids
Elk River
Maple Grove
Osseo
Robbinsdale Armstrong

With Coon Rapids opening (exceptionally nice) new rink this year...hopefully they will begin rising again and the transfers will slow down (largely to Blaine)...the other 9 teams make for a very deep and tough conference.
Bantams in 03-04 is a little younger than me but I know a few players that were my class (05) that played BP growing up and ended up at Totino, so it wouldn't be much of a surprise if aside from the few here and there going to TG, that there are probably more players in that area going to Breck, Benilde, etc. When I was in high school Park Center had their own team, and usually weren't a doormat. Not great by any means but usually average.

Govie
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Post by Govie » Thu Mar 15, 2012 9:50 pm

hockey59 wrote:Sad North Metro no longer has the numbers to field a team. At one time the BPYHA had a strong program...as recently as 2003-2004 made it to Bantam A State.

Only positve is the NWSC will now be down to 10 teams (instead of 11) meaning 18 conference games and 7 non-con. (as opposed to 20 conf. games and 5 non-conf.) which is too high when you're limitied to 25 Regular Season games. Remaining NWSC teams are:

Andover
Anoka
Blaine
Centennial
Champlin Park
Coon Rapids
Elk River
Maple Grove
Osseo
Robbinsdale Armstrong

With Coon Rapids opening (exceptionally nice) new rink this year...hopefully they will begin rising again and the transfers will slow down (largely to Blaine)...the other 9 teams make for a very deep and tough conference.
\

That looks like a good conference to me.

BlueLineSpecial
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Post by BlueLineSpecial » Fri Mar 16, 2012 8:07 am

I wonder, is this about fielding teams, or is it about fielding competitive AA teams? It seems to me that as programs and communities change, we need to look at whether or not that team should be playing AA.

For example, I'm aquaintances with the parents of a young man that lives in south Minneapolis. I don't have all the details but it sounds like he didn't make varsity for the Minneapolis high school co-op as a junior. I don't have a great picture of how good he is, but I have to imagine he could play second line for a team like Luverne or LeSuer. Anyway, maybe teams like Minneapolis and St. Paul Johnson would be better served playing in A?? I personally would love to see St. Paul Johnson at the X in the A tourney. Same with Minneapolis, who plays a very easy regular season and gets destroyed in section 6AA every year.

Govie
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Post by Govie » Fri Mar 16, 2012 9:23 am

BlueLineSpecial wrote:I wonder, is this about fielding teams, or is it about fielding competitive AA teams? It seems to me that as programs and communities change, we need to look at whether or not that team should be playing AA.

For example, I'm aquaintances with the parents of a young man that lives in south Minneapolis. I don't have all the details but it sounds like he didn't make varsity for the Minneapolis high school co-op as a junior. I don't have a great picture of how good he is, but I have to imagine he could play second line for a team like Luverne or LeSuer. Anyway, maybe teams like Minneapolis and St. Paul Johnson would be better served playing in A?? I personally would love to see St. Paul Johnson at the X in the A tourney. Same with Minneapolis, who plays a very easy regular season and gets destroyed in section 6AA every year.
As far as I know we were in single A for a few years. For some reason we were back up and all I know is we are a co-op with Harding players (very very few to begin with) and Humboldt players (even less) having to play with JHS. Como supposedly gets Central players and Highland was on their own this year, coming back after being defunct for a number of years. Highland was so bad this year I believe they only won one game. The Como coach said if Johnson players want to play they can go to Como (I think it's sour grapes on his behalf because all we've ever done over the years is kick the crap out of them.) Our bantam team a couple years ago was bringing in players from Stillwater so they could get more action. They brought in a goalie and maybe more but I think it doesn't really extend past the bantam years.

VicKevlar
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Post by VicKevlar » Fri Mar 16, 2012 9:42 am

hockey59 wrote:Sad North Metro no longer has the numbers to field a team. At one time the BPYHA had a strong program...as recently as 2003-2004 made it to Bantam A State.

Only positve is the NWSC will now be down to 10 teams (instead of 11) meaning 18 conference games and 7 non-con. (as opposed to 20 conf. games and 5 non-conf.) which is too high when you're limitied to 25 Regular Season games. Remaining NWSC teams are:

Andover
Anoka
Blaine
Centennial
Champlin Park
Coon Rapids
Elk River
Maple Grove
Osseo
Robbinsdale Armstrong

With Coon Rapids opening (exceptionally nice) new rink this year...hopefully they will begin rising again and the transfers will slow down (largely to Blaine)...the other 9 teams make for a very deep and tough conference.
Schedule wasn't that way with 20 and 5 for the lower teams. North Metro, CR and I think Anoka only played Blaine, ER, Centennial and MG once per season.

hockey59
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Post by hockey59 » Fri Mar 16, 2012 9:52 am

VicKevlar wrote:
hockey59 wrote:Sad North Metro no longer has the numbers to field a team. At one time the BPYHA had a strong program...as recently as 2003-2004 made it to Bantam A State.

Only positve is the NWSC will now be down to 10 teams (instead of 11) meaning 18 conference games and 7 non-con. (as opposed to 20 conf. games and 5 non-conf.) which is too high when you're limitied to 25 Regular Season games. Remaining NWSC teams are:

Andover
Anoka
Blaine
Centennial
Champlin Park
Coon Rapids
Elk River
Maple Grove
Osseo
Robbinsdale Armstrong

With Coon Rapids opening (exceptionally nice) new rink this year...hopefully they will begin rising again and the transfers will slow down (largely to Blaine)...the other 9 teams make for a very deep and tough conference.
Schedule wasn't that way with 20 and 5 for the lower teams. North Metro, CR and I think Anoka only played Blaine, ER, Centennial and MG once per season.
INCORRECT...you are confusing the NWSC with the Northern Conf...where some teams are only played once...and although Anoka isn't what it once was...keep in mind they did eliminate Centennial this year...so PLEASE don't clomp them in with a defunct program (NM) or a program recently hammered by defections to Blaine (CR).

VicKevlar
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Post by VicKevlar » Fri Mar 16, 2012 10:07 am

Well....you can go look for yourself at the breakdown of the team schedules for this season.

NM and CR only played a 16 game conference schedule....playing the big boys of the NWSC only once each (same as last year IIRC). I thought Anoka was in on the mix but incorrect. And it looks like the one and only time they played the biggies....it was an away game (harsh).

MG, ER, Blaine and Centennial only played an 18 game NWSC conference schedule.

http://www.mnhockeyhub.com/page/show/32 ... t-suburban

hockey59
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Post by hockey59 » Fri Mar 16, 2012 1:00 pm

VicKevlar wrote:Well....you can go look for yourself at the breakdown of the team schedules for this season.

NM and CR only played a 16 game conference schedule....playing the big boys of the NWSC only once each (same as last year IIRC). I thought Anoka was in on the mix but incorrect. And it looks like the one and only time they played the biggies....it was an away game (harsh).

MG, ER, Blaine and Centennial only played an 18 game NWSC conference schedule.

http://www.mnhockeyhub.com/page/show/32 ... t-suburban
If this is true...I stand corrected...I was only looking at Anoka...Sorry.

I believe Anoka played 20 conf. games, which is too many (by at least 2 games). 16 to 18 conf. games is the best number (out of 25) IMO for NWSC teams.

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