Another Program Gone for Next Year

[F14]

From Star Tribune North section:

North Metro (Coop of Park Center, Brooklyn Center, Fridley and Columbia Heights) will not be playing hockey at HS level it was announced. It said they would only have somewhere in the teens for total players for the 4 schools next year. WOW

Kind of ironic that Park Center under Gary Stefano made state in 93 and he gets to here about that the day before his Crimson make their first appearance. Writing was on the wall for years. I also remember Heights with Reggie Miracle made it in 83 (won state bantam A in 80 with only 30 bantams in total program) and now the 4-schools of the coop would only have had somewhere in the teens next year for all grades.

I remember in 2001 BC, Fridley and Heights decided to fold up shop and form Tri-City for youth and HS. After 5- years the numbers were still falling so badly they went with Brooklyn Park (Park Center).

Just one man's opinion, but changing demographics in those communities is a huge factor but when you COOP you lose any identity to a specific school and driving up to 85th and Zane isn't too appealing. Park Center also is not a good school from what I have heard.

I remember is 01 Fridley and Heights and BC were really struggling but they had around 70 players for the 3 communities at HS level. Now they have about 5-6 in the current HS coop. From 70 to a handful. OUCH How sad.

I think recruting and retaining minorities to try and continue with hockey is imperative if the sport is ever going to grow in Minnesota especially in the inner city, small outstate areas, or first ring suburbs. Keeping the cost down will be the only way to retain a lot of these kids as hockey is a rich man's game.

Look at Mpls, 7 schools feeding one Coop team. I saw them play and over 95% of players were from SW and Washburn, so much for recruiting any from any of the other 5 schools or peeking intererest in hockey. I know one of my sons friends (Black kid) claimed 3 times this season he was called a Nig___r by different players and once last season.

Not trying to make any enemies, just saddened by fewer kids continuing to play hockey in communities where they truly need more athletic opportunities not less.



Goodbye Sleepy Eye in the fall and North Metro. I wonder if Cooper will be merging with Armstrong shortly since their girls program is now merged and youth.

[F14]

Please list any news or rumors on other programs who are on life support.

With the Class A tourney, I sure wish there could be a Minnesota Hockey and HS League Committee put together to try and address the problems and costs to attract and retain minorities.

Love to see some diversity and more kids playing.

[northwoods oldtimer]

Sad to say but hockey is a rich mans sport. It is going faster into that direction even to the point of taking middle class families out of the sport. Now with no industry it will only get worse and worse. an example up on the range where the mines supported youth hockey, built facilities for hockey and funded that start of many programs those mines are now foreign owned. With the Magnitation start up this could potentially be a much needed shot in the arm for hockey in the region. However foreign owned mines do not care about local communities. It used to be a blue collar sport but now the only ones who can afford it are the lawyer kids. That is very bad for hockey and long term health of this sport in the USA. You can count on the fact the USA hockey could care less about it. Sure they make a big PR splash on a single minority kid playing hockey out east but where are the dollars to support growing the sport? Oh yes out at Ann Arbor wasted on some kids labeled elite. I am with you on this. If USA hockey cared about growing the sport they would make bold moves to restore some level of resource to a grass roots movement to grow and develop the sport at the youth levels. No reason the kids over at Leech Lake, Red Lake should not be playing this great sport also to promote healthy positive programs for the young people. The sport is currently a structured mess by forcing kids to travel so much at such a young age. Time to reinvent some practical steps to grow the game. How about house leagues once again!? I think it is time for them once again in this hockey culture that has turned to all about winning. Who says we have to play travel hockey at squirt and pee wee level. How about some affordable alternatives to bleeding middle class folks dry and burning out coaches, kids and parents by the time they reach bantam age. The games needs pioneers to think outside the norm and help stimulate healthy ways to get the game back to the kids they should serve.

[VicKevlar]

The youth numbers are there.....but nobody stays after bantams at NMYHA (formerly BPYHA).

Off the last two Bantam A teams....only two stayed for high school. A few goto either Totino or Champlin (Lodermeier, Baker, Lunden, etc;)......but MOST open enroll to Osseo. Roughly half of Osseo varsity is from North Metro (Dahlberg brothers, Gross brothers, Otto, Stimpson, Sims, Lyons, etc; etc; etc;). It's been like that for the past 5 years or so.

Skaters from Park Center will head to Osseo. The rest from the other schools will head to Irondale I was told.

Last good team from Park Center I remember must have been in 2001 with Tim Jackman on team.


EDIT: Cause I'm really old and forgetting dates/years.

[Sats81]

This is too bad.

[blueliner5]

The youth numbers are there.....but nobody stays after bantams at NMYHA (formerly BPYHA).

Off the last two Bantam A teams....only two stayed for high school. A few goto either Totino or Champlin (Lodermeier, Baker, Lunden, etc;)......but MOST open enroll to Osseo. Roughly half of Osseo varsity is from North Metro (Dahlberg brothers, Gross brothers, Otto, Stimpson, Sims, Lyons, etc; etc; etc;). It's been like that for the past 5 years or so.

Skaters from Park Center will head to Osseo. The rest from the other schools will head to Irondale I was told.

Last good team from Park Center I remember must have been in 1981 with Tim Jackman on team.

Could be wrong, but I heard Cooper

[MrBoDangles]

Will there be a reason for North Metro to continue their association? Would think the Fridley and Heights kids would go to Irondale.

[Bleed Maroon and Gold]

Will there be a reason for North Metro to continue their association? Would think the Fridley and Heights kids would go to Irondale.

Fridley and Heights high school kids will play at Irondale next season. Was in talks with North metro about getting the Fridley and Heights players at the youth level and they are keeping the youth association around for at least another year. They are also not willing to waive out the Fridley and Heights youth players to Irondale. Puzzles me since that youth association is serving no purpose.

[mghockey18]

Would make sense to send a few of the Brooklyn Park kids to Osseo due to lacking numbers.

[observer]

Sad to say but hockey is a rich mans sport. It is going faster into that direction even to the point of taking middle class families out of the sport. Now with no industry it will only get worse and worse. an example up on the range where the mines supported youth hockey, built facilities for hockey and funded that start of many programs those mines are now foreign owned. With the Magnitation start up this could potentially be a much needed shot in the arm for hockey in the region. However foreign owned mines do not care about local communities. It used to be a blue collar sport but now the only ones who can afford it are the lawyer kids. That is very bad for hockey and long term health of this sport in the USA. You can count on the fact the USA hockey could care less about it. Sure they make a big PR splash on a single minority kid playing hockey out east but where are the dollars to support growing the sport? Oh yes out at Ann Arbor wasted on some kids labeled elite. I am with you on this. If USA hockey cared about growing the sport they would make bold moves to restore some level of resource to a grass roots movement to grow and develop the sport at the youth levels. No reason the kids over at Leech Lake, Red Lake should not be playing this great sport also to promote healthy positive programs for the young people. The sport is currently a structured mess by forcing kids to travel so much at such a young age. Time to reinvent some practical steps to grow the game. How about house leagues once again!? I think it is time for them once again in this hockey culture that has turned to all about winning. Who says we have to play travel hockey at squirt and pee wee level. How about some affordable alternatives to bleeding middle class folks dry and burning out coaches, kids and parents by the time they reach bantam age. The games needs pioneers to think outside the norm and help stimulate healthy ways to get the game back to the kids they should serve.

Several great points. I totally agree about your comment on the Leech Lake, Red Lake areas. Youth sports can be the centerpiece of all youth development. I like to use Henry High School as an example. Can anyone think of any reason why Henry High School can't be State Champions in track and field? Here's the deal. It's contingent on the father of a second grade kid to round up 20-30 kids and form a track team (insert any sport). It shouldn't be contingent on having that special father in the community to spend the time and energy to do it. There needs to be more community support as the future of our youth is the most important issue facing all communities everywhere in the world.

Can someone go into all the third grade classes in the North Minneapolis neighborhoods in the next few weeks and say all third graders will be involved with a publically funded youth track team? Can a corporation step up and buy uniforms and equipment and pay coaches to lead a track team of every third grader in North Minneapolis? Otherwise you have one father trying to help his only child to grow and be dedicated to track. This isn't a "if you'd like" every 3rd grader will be on this track team unless they have a special reason not to be.

Look, Blake requires all their students be involved in extra curricular activity all year. After school, every day, all the students are involved in sports, a club, music, etc. Why? Because it makes them better students and people. I've heard of Blake students running cross country in their school clothes. I loved that story. It's better than doing nothing at all.

I even called the Police Athletic League about this as North Minneapolis was attempting to hire 50 new police officers to, as the media quoted, "fight the gang problems." What? Fight? I told them, fine, hire 50 new police officers as long as they're all youth athletic coaches. Don't fight the gangs make them into the baddest ass track team anywhere. Who thinks fighting will work? Don't fight them give them something to work for.

Think about it. All the wonderful hockey teams were developed because someone recruited 20-30 mites and someone dedicated a bunch of time to develop a whole group of them to play at a high level. Eagan, Duluth East, Maple Grove, Lakeville all were contingent on a special dad of 2nd graders that rounded them up, drilled them, worked them, found opportunities for them outside the association and what do you get 12 years later? A solid core of outstanding hockey players all because of 2-3 special dads.

The system can't depend on these special fathers because some communities around the State don't have them around to depend on. All kids are the same. It's what we invest into them to make them different and better.

[observer]

Now that I've shared my political platform with you I have a few additional thoughts.

I've heard that a powerful proactive recruiting effort can lead to great results. Youth teams and house leagues don't travel much and aren't expensive so things can go ok for a few years. The highest level of soccer, baseball, lacrosse, basketball and hockey is now played at the club level. Club level requires travel beyond the expense. The number one issue I've heard is transportation. Getting players to all the club events requires a car, fuel, money for a meal stop and free time. I've heard when kids reach the age of specialization, and are part of a team that performs well, they drop out because of transportation.

Getting help with the financial hardship is part of the issue but most clubs, in all sports, offer scholarships for families that can't afford full payment. But, ultimately, it's transportation that causes numbers to drop.

[Zamman]

Finance is the real reason, people cannot afford the burden that comes with hockey.
But, if associations would just change their thinking a bit it might be more affordable.
I talked with some people in the Richfield Association this year ans mentioned that they need to rethink the tournament choices for all levels of hockey.
Stop going to tournaments that are so far that you need to stay overnight for three days in a hotel with food and gas, plus all that is involved with the team and payers.
The response was " we need this, it is our vacation get away". So little johnny doesn't get to stay in a hotel, so what? The cost is what is driving people away.
Stay at home, play in the local tournaments and have sleep overs at someones house and get pizza.

You need to think outside the box, stop the it is all about me attitude. If you want them to play and succeed, make the sacrifice. Start them out early....they will be fine.

[HShockeywatcher]

I think recruting and retaining minorities to try and continue with hockey is imperative if the sport is ever going to grow in Minnesota especially in the inner city, small outstate areas, or first ring suburbs. Keeping the cost down will be the only way to retain a lot of these kids as hockey is a rich man's game.

I've been saying this over and over in multiple different threads. But the response is that it is not the place for communities/high schools to do for some reason.

Imagine a rink at every mpls/st paul high school with opportunities to use equipment/ice time/etc for free/reduced cost. It would be a great opportunity for the children and many families.

[VicKevlar]

Will there be a reason for North Metro to continue their association? Would think the Fridley and Heights kids would go to Irondale.

Fridley and Heights high school kids will play at Irondale next season. Was in talks with North metro about getting the Fridley and Heights players at the youth level and they are keeping the youth association around for at least another year. They are also not willing to waive out the Fridley and Heights youth players to Irondale. Puzzles me since that youth association is serving no purpose.

Good question.....of course moving to D10 from D3 would greatly increase travel and expense. Maybe there's some pushback.

[defense]

There is problems all over Minnesota. Obviously declining enrollment is huge, but I have a few ideas beyond that for our local outstate program. The 4th grade class in the local program had 7 boy hockey players, this year 4 kids gave it a try for the first time giving them 11. The third graders are slightly better, the 5th graders are almost in the same boat. This is a town of 13000.
My older son was a first year squirt this year as a 4th grader. In two years of mite hockey, they never played a house league game. Yes, numbers were down, I get that. In a mite house league, all you really need is 3 or 4 players on a team to play half ice games, we had enough for at least that. Instead of playing a regular game on Saturday morning, they split all the mites into two teams and played a traveling schedule. This was to no little extent the work of, who else??? Parents...parent coaches.... The mites last year spent more than a week's worth of ice time practicing for a single game on the weekend at a different town. As a parent, I know that we all signed the kids up to play mite house league, not traveling hockey.
Again, these are issues I see in our local program...not necassarily issues elsewhere.
This year in squirts: OK, it's nice to get the boys sweat shirts and hats..... but then comes the sweat pants, bag tags, helmet stickers, donation to run the local tournement (of which they claimed they had more than enough thus had a pizza party.....that of course required more money because the excess money was not enough for a pizza party....then comes the pins for Fargo (we really need to know how many you are going to order, then we will order them, give them to you and then tell you how much you owe us...because we don't have the price untill we order them).... oh and the shirt for the home tournement that you must pre order...because we will not have any for sale at the tournement..the list goes on and on.... Most of this is stuff that just comes up as the season goes on and is relayed in emails between parents...... at what point is it too much???? What do you think the 4 new hockey families are thinking??? When did it change from kids playing hockey, to spoiling the kids???? At some point, all this stuff is a turn off. Ya, the initial cost of hockey is somewhat manageable, but then you get into a season and get hit with a bunch of over powering moms, and parent coaches....at some point it starts to make sense that a program that 10 years ago might have had 50 mites, now had 25......

[PWD10]

They were saying tonight during one of the Playoff Games that Johnson had already informed that they were not going to have a team next year due to no players or very little. As they said it I wondered how many kids would have played if there wasn't a limit on where you lived or went to school at the younger ages. I believe the divorce rate is near 50 percent in this country. I could maybe understand the rule limitations at the high school level, but kids spend a lot of time with both parents and having to deal with custody and all that jazz and dealing with team schedules and transportation to and from games. Make it simple.... the kids can play whereever they want to. None of our kids are going to Nationals or high end championships for the most part...let them play where they want to or care to. Does anyone really care if a historically weak team gets a good player or two and become stronger? Its not like a really weak team is overnight going to that drastically change the youth hockey landscape in Minnesota.

Every year they publish a price as to how much it cost to provide for a Thansgiving Dinner....We should do the same thing for outfitting a hockey player for a season and all the games at each level a team plays.

Skates for a good new pair $300
Hockey Stick close to $300
M11 Helmet $125
Gas at nearly $4 a gallon and playing Duluth East 9 times this year from the twin cities while not playing other teams within the twin cities area even once. I know all of the games weren't played exclusively at one location...but still 9 times.
Cost of team wear...fundraisers.... tournaments and on and on it goes.

On the opposite end of the schedule discussion is the limiting of number of games at or below Peewee I think is quite possibly hurting the numbers for some kids. At the age kids are growing the fastest were going to have to replace it even quicker due to them outgrowing it. Kids want to play games. I know of teams at the squirt level in another timezone who play 70-80 games a season.

With the removal of checking...the numbers are going to fall even further. I remember my son couldn't wait to do a bunch of things in hockey such as take his first slapshot....check...etc. I sort of think we are watering the product down so much...it soon won't even be recognizable...


Does Showcase = youth league games? That seems affordable and provides an opportunity...if you even know about the deadlines...where to sign up...etc. I am sure a bunch of the arenas could figure out a way to offer youth league games during the summer, but it seems that is not the case here.

And then we have the Bad PR as I like to call it such as "The coach who decides to sit kids at the ____ level. So parents read this and think great if my son isn't a good enough skater/player he won't even play. Fighting, The Paralization incidents this year...You get the gist of it.

[F14]

Heard St. Paul Johnson will only have 12 total high school age skaters now that Dickman's class graduating.
Sad sad sad!!! All that history I am sure they will shuffle off to Como Park for next year but I heard they have lost numbers with Highland Park coming back? Anyone?

Also what is going on with Richfield I know they haven't been fielding A teams in a while? I would think with only one team in Mpls they would get some open enrolled 9th graders?

North Branch status now that Arena isn't going to be built. They are in North Suburban for everything but hockey.


Keep ideas and posts coming.

[silentbutdeadly3139]

...Does anyone really care if a historically weak team gets a good player or two and become stronger? Its not like a really weak team is overnight going to that drastically change the youth hockey landscape in Minnesota.

I think more players would go to the better/bigger associations hurting the smaller associations even more.

Skates for a good new pair $300
Hockey Stick close to $300
M11 Helmet $125

You can probably spend less than that for skates, sticks etc. You just have to be willing to say no and accept using not the lates and greatest.

Gas at nearly $4 a gallon and playing Duluth East 9 times this year from the twin cities while not playing other teams within the twin cities area even once. I know all of the games weren't played exclusively at one location...but still 9 times.

Is this the Maroon and Gold ? Thats a choice your team or association makes.

On the opposite end of the schedule discussion is the limiting of number of games at or below Peewee I think is quite possibly hurting the numbers for some kids. At the age kids are growing the fastest were going to have to replace it even quicker due to them outgrowing it. Kids want to play games. I know of teams at the squirt level in another timezone who play 70-80 games a season.

More games equals more money which will likely drive people away !

With the removal of checking...the numbers are going to fall even further. I remember my son couldn't wait to do a bunch of things in hockey such as take his first slapshot....check...etc. I sort of think we are watering the product down so much...it soon won't even be recognizable...

I think they removed checking to keep kids in hockey longer. thinking being the checking was driving the smaller and/or less skilled out of hockey.

[greybeard58]

The youth association does not recruit, my grandson lives in Brooklyn Center and nothing has been advertised at the local area. When calls have been made no one has taken the time to return them. The question is why would a person have their child join an organization that gives the perception of not being interested. Where has District 3 been all this time? What has the Mn Hockey VP of planning and their committees come up with to help struggling associations?

[muckandgrind]

Will there be a reason for North Metro to continue their association? Would think the Fridley and Heights kids would go to Irondale.

Fridley and Heights high school kids will play at Irondale next season. Was in talks with North metro about getting the Fridley and Heights players at the youth level and they are keeping the youth association around for at least another year. They are also not willing to waive out the Fridley and Heights youth players to Irondale. Puzzles me since that youth association is serving no purpose.

Good question.....of course moving to D10 from D3 would [i]greatly[/i] increase travel and expense. Maybe there's some pushback.

Travel might increase a bit, but definitely not "greatly". These are bordering Districts. Most of the games would be within a 10-15 mile radius of Brooklyn Center: Champlin, Anoka, Coon Rapids, Blaine, Spring Lake Park, Irondale, Rogers and Elk River. Other than a game or two against Princeton, CINB and St Francis would require a longer drive.

[defense]

I'm a hard core hockey guy. Kid will play if he wants and I can possibly make it happen, regardless of rules....

My problem is what the non hard core parents who never played think. So in the first year of travel hockey they should play as many travel games as bananas or what? The financial and time burden is already hard to swallow for newbies.
my concern is for parents New to the game whos son may be on the fence wether he likes it, you kinda want the parents support in that situation and travel time/expense is a big concern to most parents.

[Big Daddy]

I'm a hard core hockey guy. Kid will play if he wants and I can possibly make it happen, regardless of rules....

My problem is what the non hard core parents who never played think. So in the first year of travel hockey they should play as many travel games as bananas or what? The financial and time burden is already hard to swallow for newbies.
my concern is for parents New to the game whos son may be on the fence wether he likes it, you kinda want the parents support in that situation and travel time/expense is a big concern to most parents.

I never played but both of my sons played through high school and now into college. In the beginning, the cost, time commitment and travel were hard to swallow and we were working a couple of jobs to support it BUT what these boys have learned from hockey is invaluable. Telling them that they could not play would be like telling them to stop breathing. It's really sad that these programs are folding and I understand that the commitments are huge but if the kids want to play, we need to find someway to give them the opportunity to play. I have heard too many parents say, "I can't afford the time to have them play" or "That's just way too expensive" but will spend boat loads of $$ on trips and shopping. It's an investment in the kids and what is more valuable than that? Just my opinion.....

[defense]

I'm a hard core hockey guy. Kid will play if he wants and I can possibly make it happen, regardless of rules....

My problem is what the non hard core parents who never played think. So in the first year of travel hockey they should play as many travel games as bananas or what? The financial and time burden is already hard to swallow for newbies.
my concern is for parents New to the game whos son may be on the fence wether he likes it, you kinda want the parents support in that situation and travel time/expense is a big concern to most parents.

I never played but both of my sons played through high school and now into college. In the beginning, the cost, time commitment and travel were hard to swallow and we were working a couple of jobs to support it BUT what these boys have learned from hockey is invaluable. Telling them that they could not play would be like telling them to stop breathing. It's really sad that these programs are folding and I understand that the commitments are huge but if the kids want to play, we need to find someway to give them the opportunity to play. I have heard too many parents say, "I can't afford the time to have them play" or "That's just way too expensive" but will spend boat loads of $$ on trips and shopping. It's an investment in the kids and what is more valuable than that? Just my opinion.....

As I stated, yes my sons are playing, and will play as long as they want to and as long as there is any way to possibly make it happen...I have the same opinion. But I am not naive enough to think that my values are shared by anyone else, or that my values are any better than anyone else's. Just my opinion.

My main concern is having kids playing the game, and if that means that the over-involved hockey moms and dads who have unlimited resources that are running the thing need to back off, that's what they need to do.
I am not saying that this is true everywhere, it definitely is here..and I would be surprised if this were the only place.

[BBgunner]

I am a proud Heights Grad.... that being said I was part of the original merger of youth to CHF and then to East River of Heights and Fridley, however at High School we went to our own teams. It was a heated debate then as to merging the youth we at Heights lost our head HS coach because the youth associations merged. However the smart move at that time would have been to merge the HS programs together and they may have had more identity and could have held on longer.
The culture of the entire community there has changed now and not sure if that has more to do with the lack of interest or if it is the lack of identity to a team that is not just yours. When I was in HS we lost a few kids to TG and a goalie to Blaine, we still played against MV and Elk River and even snuck out a win.
I grew up playing pond with the 83 kids as did most of the kids I graduated with and we all looked up to them and wanted to be them, by the time we got to HS the ponds were pretty empty and were being shut down by the city due to lack of use.
Its sad that any program folds even sadder when kids will not have the opportunity to try and play and fall in love with the greatest game on earth. I hope the kids that want to play get picked up by SLP, Irondale, or Osseo and they have great time continuing to play because it is what they want to do.

[F14]

What will happen with

1)Richfield
2) Johnson
3) Pine City