NA3HL

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JCarlson
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NA3HL

Post by JCarlson » Tue Aug 28, 2012 12:56 pm

Have heard some about this league. Seems to be a way for NAHL owners to make a little more money - part of a larger business model perhaps. Haven't watched any games curious to see if it grows and improves similar to the way the NAHL has.

MNpuckBlog
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Post by MNpuckBlog » Tue Aug 28, 2012 8:22 pm

In my opinion, it is basically the level of the MNJHL. Not to rip on the league, but with the USHL, NAHL, and BCHL all sending a good percentage of players to college, I don't see the NA3HL improving a whole lot, as its not where most players are setting their goals for. I would agree it is probably a way to make some money.

Roy01
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Post by Roy01 » Tue Aug 28, 2012 10:05 pm

I thought the whole purpose of this league was to fuel the players within it into the NAHL? Set up as a "farm team" process. I think it's still too early to determine whether the league is credible or not because (I believe) the league has only been around for two seasons, if I'm correct..? That is shorter than most players current stays in Junior level competition within the NAHL, USHL, or BCHL, considering many players do three years now. While it may be a money maker for organizations, and maybe as of right now isn't showing the best caliber of players, it is still new and growing.

If nothing else, some kid who doesn't want to hang up his skates yet gets the opportunity to play Junior hockey, even if it is at the level of the MNJHL..

BBgunner
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Post by BBgunner » Wed Aug 29, 2012 2:47 pm

I am only familiar with one NA3 team the Steel. That being said I know they put 2 kids up (1 to NAHL, 1 to SIJHL) and it was the first year of the team. I believe they have a couple kids trying out for NAHL teams this years as well.
Yes you pay but the kids get exposed to more of NAHL type of travel and schedule than the MJ kids do. I have watched both leagues play last year I think the NA3 kids play more of a NAHL style where there is a tighter more controlled style of play. MJ feels more run and gun like high school games with bigger more skilled kids playing.
I also know that NA3 is continuing to grow and there had to be a reason the other teams left the MJ to join. But I agree it will take a few more years before we see the development of kids and how many go on to play collegiately.

JCarlson
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Post by JCarlson » Thu Aug 30, 2012 8:35 am

[MJ feels more run and gun like high school games with bigger more skilled kids playing]

Interesting...why would this be? So in your opinion the MJHL is a better league? I'm only asking because I have seen neither [/quote]

BBgunner
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Post by BBgunner » Thu Aug 30, 2012 8:58 am

I feel that the NA3 is the better league more controlled like NAHL or USHL or even college style hockey. Better passing and actual forechecks and multiple offensive chances in a zone instead of run and gun. And to further add to the differences, there are no really weak teams in the NA3 they have more parity with 4 teams over 500 in a division. Where last year in the MJ you had one team that only won 1 game.

barry_mcconnell
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Post by barry_mcconnell » Thu Aug 30, 2012 11:39 am

How much does a player pay to be in this league? Do players pay to play in MNJHL, NAHL, or USHL?

O-townClown
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Post by O-townClown » Thu Aug 30, 2012 1:53 pm

barry_mcconnell wrote:How much does a player pay to be in this league? Do players pay to play in MNJHL, NAHL, or USHL?
Barry, I just had a long post lost in cyberspace. Hadn't gotten one of those errors in a long time.

USHL is Tier I
NAHL is Tier II
Minnesota and NA3 are Tier III

Annual Guide lists which leagues are what around p. 19. (Easy, there is only one Tier I and only one Tier II league in the U.S.)

Around p. 185-189 there are passages about Tier I having to provide a billet arrangement and not being able to accept money for hockey fees. Tier II can accept money for the housing. Tier III is capped on how much they charge. A separate area mentions that players cannot accept skill-based scholarships for that runs afoul of NCAA rules on amateurism. So you can then conclude that Tier III teams must charge. (Plenty of allegations that top EJ teams don't, but that's a discussion for another day.)

Hope that helps.
Be kind. Rewind.

JCarlson
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Post by JCarlson » Thu Aug 30, 2012 2:08 pm

As the NAHL becomes a very good league, I am beginning to hear comparisons now to the USHL. Mainly that the NAHL is the "working man's" league. Lunch pail hockey if you will; while the USHL is likened to be more for the the top guns - top scoring players with better offensive skills. Would be nice if D1 colleges would give equal looks at both leagues.

BBgunner
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Post by BBgunner » Thu Aug 30, 2012 2:15 pm

I knwo the cap that NA3 can charge is $7500 however I do not think many charge that much. I believe but do not confirmation that MJ is 2500-4000.

The NAHL I believe is getting more kids looked at the top third teams seem to be putting 3-10 kids in D1 schools where many of the others are 1-5. They still are a step behind the USHL for D1 commitments but remember some of the USHL kids have commitments before even joining the USHL. The kids in the NAHL are earing there rides by hard work at that level.

I am curious to see the numbers now start to come in on MJ VS NA3 kids in college after this season. While not many will make it to D1 schools I bet we see kids in D3 schools and my guess not for sure but guess is that NA3 will put more in that MJ

crash
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Post by crash » Thu Sep 06, 2012 6:18 pm

Incorrect info all over.

The MNJHL put almost double the players into NCAA schools this past season. The NA3HL is claiming to be a farm system to the NAHL. As of right now I know of only 3 players from the "Minnesota Divison" of the NA3HL who made rosters.

$5,800- $7,500 for the NA3HL
$4,500- $6,500 for the MNJHL

BBgunner
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Post by BBgunner » Fri Sep 07, 2012 4:52 pm

The primary mission of the 3HL, which is managed organizationally by the North American Hockey League (NAHL), is to provide a structured developmental environment for student-athletes whose youth options are limited but are still reaching their potential and have aspirations of playing in the NAHL or United States Hockey League (USHL) and eventually the NCAA or American College Hockey Association (ACHA).

That is quoted directly from NA3HL website. No one ever claimed it to be a farm system for the NAHL. I am sure that MJ has put more kids in college last year as the NA3 was just in its second year so not many kids would be aging out into college yet.
Both leagues provide kids an opportunity to continue on with thier hockey careers and hopefully provide them opportunities to play on further. I think the structure and organization of the NA3 is better to prepare kids for what JR or College life will be like. I also believe if not for the addition of the Great Lakes division the MJ was in trouble. I am glad they have added those additional teams and they look to be strong for years to come, however they also raised the cost to play with the additional travel added so both leagues are very close now in costs.
Lets give it time and see how the numbers of kids entering college play out this year the third year when kids age out of NA3 and the league matures more. I never bashed MJ Crash, or was off in my numbers from what you posted.

JCarlson
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Post by JCarlson » Thu Sep 27, 2012 12:24 pm

Saw my first NA3 game last week. This is good hockey. Quite fast, players are big and the play has a much more mature style than HS - and that goes for any A or AA program. With the exception of a few good 17 yr-olds, the majority of the players are 18+, and I would under no circumastances call them "kids".

What I call mature hockey is players who look to pass first before trying to do it themselves. The puck movement I witnessed was quick, hard and reasonably precise, with players catching passes on the fly with speed - not exactly polished but very enjoyable to watch....

Marty
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Post by Marty » Fri Oct 05, 2012 9:39 am

Majority of the Tier 3 players - while decent HS players - should have their parents put that $6 or $7 grand towards college or a good votech school.

Rather expensive year of not growing up and facing the fact that your hockey is now best played on ad hoc formed teams playing at 10PM somewhere around town.
Last edited by Marty on Fri Oct 05, 2012 9:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

Marty
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Post by Marty » Fri Oct 05, 2012 9:53 am

I will add to that.

D3 schools offer very little in the way of financial assistance to their hockey players. It is a shame that the current "system" forces so many kids into one or two years of Jr hockey in an attempt to just play nonscholarship D3 hockey.

D3 players have essentially zero chance of playing professional hockey as a career. The investment in Jr hockey does not translate into much economic benefit for the player in the long run - either through professional salaries or college scholarships. Paying to play Jr hockey is simply not a wise decision.

I am not anti D3 hockey. Quite the opposite. D3 hockey players should focus on getting an education first and playing hockey second. D3 hockey is a great way to broaden your college experience and maybe improve your overall character via work ethic, etc. It may also facilitate having future teachers with higher level hockey experience which may translate into better future HS coaches.

cooper26
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Post by cooper26 » Fri Oct 05, 2012 11:29 pm

Marty wrote:I will add to that.

D3 schools offer very little in the way of financial assistance to their hockey players. It is a shame that the current "system" forces so many kids into one or two years of Jr hockey in an attempt to just play nonscholarship D3 hockey.

D3 players have essentially zero chance of playing professional hockey as a career. The investment in Jr hockey does not translate into much economic benefit for the player in the long run - either through professional salaries or college scholarships. Paying to play Jr hockey is simply not a wise decision.

I am not anti D3 hockey. Quite the opposite. D3 hockey players should focus on getting an education first and playing hockey second. D3 hockey is a great way to broaden your college experience and maybe improve your overall character via work ethic, etc. It may also facilitate having future teachers with higher level hockey experience which may translate into better future HS coaches.
Hockey as an "investment" is a bad bet from day one of mini-mites. Also, while it is true that the odds of playing D1 (much less pros) if you're spending time in anything less than tier1 juniors, are extremely small, the idea of throwing a blanket over every kid/family that does it and saying it's a waste is ridiculous. First of all, "expensive" is a relative term. In addition, it is often a great "investment" in that it can allow a kid to live out his dreams and come to his own realizations. (invaluable). It can also be a fun learning experience in its own right. A "gap year" (or two) between HS and college (or TVI, or the military, or finding a job) is a great idea for a lot of kids! - exactly what some of them need. Live and let live.

D3: Pretty much the most they get is free sticks. Yet it's often great hockey. They continue to play for the love of the game. That's what is cool about it. I do agree that if you are in college playing hockey (D3 or D1) classwork should be the first priority.

Marty
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Post by Marty » Sat Oct 06, 2012 10:38 am

Is it the dreams of the kids or really the dreams of their parents ?

cooper26
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Post by cooper26 » Sat Oct 06, 2012 12:07 pm

Marty wrote:Is it the dreams of the kids or really the dreams of their parents ?
In mites/squirts/peewees, it's 80% the dreams of the parents and 20% kids (they just want to have fun).

In juniors it's more like 90% the dreams of the kids (those are the ones that are left - no one left at that age can put out the effort if they don't love it.) And remember that some of them have already reconciled themselves to the idea they will never play beyond that level. They just love to play. There is nothing wrong with that. It's a fun game.

Sure, there are still a few nut job parents left by that point. They will never get over it, or themselves.

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Post by BSUBeaver » Mon Oct 08, 2012 8:33 am

Marty wrote:I will add to that.

D3 schools offer very little in the way of financial assistance to their hockey players. It is a shame that the current "system" forces so many kids into one or two years of Jr hockey in an attempt to just play nonscholarship D3 hockey.
I would disagree with this statement. Although D-III schools are not allowed to offer athletic aid, many, especially the "better" programs, have creative ways of getting their athletes academic and need based aid. It is a falacy to believe that since someone is going D-III, they are not receiving any aid.

Marty
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Post by Marty » Mon Oct 08, 2012 2:50 pm

BSUBeaver wrote:
Marty wrote:I will add to that.

D3 schools offer very little in the way of financial assistance to their hockey players. It is a shame that the current "system" forces so many kids into one or two years of Jr hockey in an attempt to just play nonscholarship D3 hockey.
I would disagree with this statement. Although D-III schools are not allowed to offer athletic aid, many, especially the "better" programs, have creative ways of getting their athletes academic and need based aid. It is a falacy to believe that since someone is going D-III, they are not receiving any aid.
Decent grades and a decent ACT score will get you as much if not more help. The MIAC and most other D3 schools are not charging full rates to most anyone right now. Economy is tough and schools are competing.

What percent of players in this Tier 3 league achieve D3 roster status?

OnFrozenPond
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Post by OnFrozenPond » Mon Oct 08, 2012 3:57 pm

BSUBeaver wrote:
Marty wrote:I will add to that.

D3 schools offer very little in the way of financial assistance to their hockey players. It is a shame that the current "system" forces so many kids into one or two years of Jr hockey in an attempt to just play nonscholarship D3 hockey.
I would disagree with this statement. Although D-III schools are not allowed to offer athletic aid, many, especially the "better" programs, have creative ways of getting their athletes academic and need based aid. It is a falacy to believe that since someone is going D-III, they are not receiving any aid.
If they are getting financial aid (need-based or financial) because they are an athlete, that is not available to the general student body, then that is a violation of NCAA rules. Athletic departments may help athletes figure out what aid programs they could qualify for (which can be tricky in its own right so many students may miss out on some) but these are standard programs that are available to everyone meeting a certain criteria.

cooper26
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Post by cooper26 » Mon Oct 08, 2012 4:27 pm

BSUBeaver wrote:
Marty wrote:I will add to that.

D3 schools offer very little in the way of financial assistance to their hockey players. It is a shame that the current "system" forces so many kids into one or two years of Jr hockey in an attempt to just play nonscholarship D3 hockey.
I would disagree with this statement. Although D-III schools are not allowed to offer athletic aid, many, especially the "better" programs, have creative ways of getting their athletes academic and need based aid. It is a falacy to believe that since someone is going D-III, they are not receiving any aid.
That's a long standing myth that just won't seem to go away. People love to say it. It's just not true and, as noted, a violation of NCAA rules that NO school would risk for D3 hockey.

old goalie85
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Post by old goalie85 » Mon Oct 08, 2012 6:50 pm

They help the kids weed through all the bulls-it, to get what they QUALIFY for. What's wrong w/that ???

OnFrozenPond
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Post by OnFrozenPond » Mon Oct 08, 2012 7:13 pm

old goalie85 wrote:They help the kids weed through all the bulls-it, to get what they QUALIFY for. What's wrong w/that ???
Nothing at all. In fact it is invaluable! However, to suggest special funding for Athletes is inaccurate and a clear NCAA violation.

old goalie85
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Post by old goalie85 » Mon Oct 08, 2012 7:44 pm

I agree. These Schools have WAYYYYYY to much to lose, And very little to gain by breaking said rules. They are much smarter than that.

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