Is the Iron Range Irrelevant?

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greenway1969
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Is the Iron Range Irrelevant?

Post by greenway1969 » Mon Dec 03, 2012 9:05 am

The IRC teams appear to be the equivalent of the Big Ten in football. A lot of tradition but no quality teams.

Rapids - Lost of Forest Lake (2-0). Lot of excuses about key players being out. However, Rapids posters made a lot of excuses last year whenever Rapids lost. They had no quality wins last year and are on the same road this year.
Hibbing - Lost to Little Falls (3-0), Minnetonka (6-1), and Chisago Lakes (5-4). Traditionally a slow starting team that hits its stride by tournament time. They will be the definite underdog to Duluth Marshall come tournament time.
the Falls - I was hoping this would be the year the Falls became a contender. Their 5-1 loss to a good Little Falls team was a disappointment.
Virginia - Not much was expected and that is what they are delivering. Lost to Cloquet (3-0) and Little Falls (6-1).
Eveleth - Lost to Wadena-Deer Creek 5-4.
Ely - Lost to Wadena-Deer Creek (10-0) and Bagley-Fosston (16-9).
Greenway - A program still in recovery. Lost to Eveleth (4-0)

It's early in the season so Rapids and Hibbing have the ability to be section contenders. But until they start getting quality wins, the Iron Range teams will not have a top ten (20?) team.

rockcrusher
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Post by rockcrusher » Mon Dec 03, 2012 9:28 am

Greenway1969, lots of stories flying around the Twin Ports on why Rapids big guns aren't playing. And it has nothing to do with injuries. Fake ID's seem to be the common theme amongst the rumors. Any IRC fans wish to comment?

greenway1969
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Post by greenway1969 » Mon Dec 03, 2012 9:43 am

If true, this underscores what I think is also a big reason why IRC hockey has declined so much, not only is it the lack of quanity of players, but the quality of the players. The quality I'm referring to is not hockey quality. I am not judging these Rapids players because I have no knowledge of their situation, but the Iron Range is no longer a good example of strong working class families. For metro people, I would compare it to what has happened to Minneapolis and St. Paul hockey.

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Post by mnmouth » Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:13 am

greenway1969 wrote:If true, this underscores what I think is also a big reason why IRC hockey has declined so much, not only is it the lack of quanity of players, but the quality of the players. The quality I'm referring to is not hockey quality. I am not judging these Rapids players because I have no knowledge of their situation, but the Iron Range is no longer a good example of strong working class families. For metro people, I would compare it to what has happened to Minneapolis and St. Paul hockey.
I have family spread all over the Range, primarily, though they are situated in Grand Rapids, Coleraine and Bovey. I did not grow up there, but my old man is a Greenway grad. My cousins played on great Raiders teams between '67 and '73. I remember the Back Door and the consternation among Rangers when it was legitimately relegated to a memory - not because Rangers considered it an unfair decision, more because the writing was on the wall: the Range was in decline and the rest of the state was set to catch up and move past storied hockey communities. Rapids winning the 1980 title is pretty much it for IRC glory over the past 32 years. Heartbreaking for many with memories of what once was.

After 1982, when it became obvious that industry was more interested in obtaining cheaper steel overseas, thereby gutting the steel industry all over the U.S., the Range was essentially dead as a viable economic machine. I'm amazed there aren't a dozen or so ghost towns up there. It's no so much that hard-working families no longer live there. They live everywhere. It's that there really is no incentive for folks with the intelligence, education and money-making capabilities to raise a family, let alone finance a long, expensive hockey career to settle there. Those folks mostly settled elsewhere to earn a prosperous living. It's nearly impossible to recruit college grads, mid-level management and ambitious persons to the Range these days, for obvious reasons.

As a former teacher, it has become apparent that the number one issue facing educators these days is the overall decline in traditional, family values. This problem is widespread and involves all economics levels. Minneapolis and St. Paul have surely seen a decrease in hockey players and schools having success at a high level, likely stretching back further than what happened eventually to the Iron Range. Compare the two areas on a hockey level, not on whether these areas are lacking hard-working families.

greenway1969
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Post by greenway1969 » Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:32 am

On the one hand you say that there is a decline in traditional family values then you say it is not fair to state there is a lack of hard-working families. I see the two as connected. I am from the same area as you and I can tell you that Bovey has more than its share of welfare and single parent families. My grandparents were poor, but they raised good kids. One grandparent was a single mother (widow) who raised four kids without public assistance. You know the numbers of free lunches at Greenway since you are a former teacher. This is indicative a culture that has become dependent on government rather than individual responsibility and ingenuity.

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Post by rainier » Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:35 am

Yeah, not a good start for the Range teams. Here are a couple observations:
1. Rapids-The FL losses are surprising, but as for just this season, I don't think they can really be judged until Bischoff plays. He is the best defensmen in MN, so obviously this Rapids team is significantly better with him on the ice.

2. Hibbing- While the Chisago Lakes loss is a bad one, the Tonka and LF losses are not. Some top players have missed games due to injury, ejection, and suspensions, and DeCenzo's primary concern seems to be getting some of the young guys experience so they can be contributors come February (as it should be). Once this team is at full strength and the young guys get up to speed, they will be fine. Yes, Duluth Marshall will be the favorite in 7A, but I expect Hibbing to give them all they can handle.

3. I-Falls has Debendet and a few other solid players around him, thus they could upset Hibbing in the playoffs, but probably not Marshall.

4. Virginia appears they will be average again this season.

5. Greenway has a lot of tradition, but you have to wonder at some point if they will just co-op with Rapids.

6. Eveleth might as well co-op with Virginia, the towns are ten feet apart.

The Range doesn't have the numbers it used to. In Hibbing, my parents' graduating class in early 70's was 500+, my class in mid 90's was 280, now the classes are 150-175. Sucks to see it, but it is what it is.

mnmouth
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Post by mnmouth » Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:37 am

greenway1969 wrote:On the one hand you say that there is a decline in traditional family values then you say it is not fair to state there is a lack of hard-working families. I see the two as connected. I am from the same area as you and I can tell you that Bovey has more than its share of welfare and single parent families. My grandparents were poor, but they raised good kids. One grandparent was a single mother (widow) who raised four kids without public assistance. You know the numbers of free lunches at Greenway since you are a former teacher. This is indicative a culture that has become dependent on government rather than individual responsibility and ingenuity.
Don't impugn everyone with selected examples. Hard-working does not necessarily equal living under traditional, family values. I can state this to you as a teacher - bad parenting is not limited to poor people. Sometimes the hardest workers are those with the most to gain, but working hard guarantees nothing.

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Re: Is the Iron Range Irrelevant?

Post by TheHockeyDJ » Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:59 am

greenway1969 wrote:The IRC teams appear to be the equivalent of the Big Ten in football. A lot of tradition but no quality teams.

Rapids - Lost of Forest Lake (2-0). Lot of excuses about key players being out. However, Rapids posters made a lot of excuses last year whenever Rapids lost. They had no quality wins last year and are on the same road this year.
Hibbing - Lost to Little Falls (3-0), Minnetonka (6-1), and Chisago Lakes (5-4). Traditionally a slow starting team that hits its stride by tournament time. They will be the definite underdog to Duluth Marshall come tournament time.
the Falls - I was hoping this would be the year the Falls became a contender. Their 5-1 loss to a good Little Falls team was a disappointment.
Virginia - Not much was expected and that is what they are delivering. Lost to Cloquet (3-0) and Little Falls (6-1).
Eveleth - Lost to Wadena-Deer Creek 5-4.
Ely - Lost to Wadena-Deer Creek (10-0) and Bagley-Fosston (16-9).
Greenway - A program still in recovery. Lost to Eveleth (4-0)

It's early in the season so Rapids and Hibbing have the ability to be section contenders. But until they start getting quality wins, the Iron Range teams will not have a top ten (20?) team.
Beating Moorhead for the second year in a row wasn't a quality win? :roll:
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Mr Hockey
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Chisago Lakes

Post by Mr Hockey » Mon Dec 03, 2012 2:53 pm

C L beat Hibbing? The players on Chisago Lakes or most of them have never played A hockey in youth hockey. Possibly Peewees in District 10 they might have. Thats a heck of win for that program.

I see this group every year and can't believe how well they play against Totino Grace who has every player on their squad being a one if not two year A bantam, peewee, or squirt.

The coaching in Chisago Lakes is great at the boys and girls levels year in and year out especially for a program that has only about 25 players per level to try out for the winter teams. They used to go B1 and C but I heard they might now be A at most levels.

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Post by ShakestheClown » Mon Dec 03, 2012 3:01 pm

rainier wrote:Yeah, not a good start for the Range teams. Here are a couple observations:
1. Rapids-The FL losses are surprising, but as for just this season, I don't think they can really be judged until Bischoff plays. He is the best defensmen in MN, so obviously this Rapids team is significantly better with him on the ice.

2. Hibbing- While the Chisago Lakes loss is a bad one, the Tonka and LF losses are not. Some top players have missed games due to injury, ejection, and suspensions, and DeCenzo's primary concern seems to be getting some of the young guys experience so they can be contributors come February (as it should be). Once this team is at full strength and the young guys get up to speed, they will be fine. Yes, Duluth Marshall will be the favorite in 7A, but I expect Hibbing to give them all they can handle.

3. I-Falls has Debendet and a few other solid players around him, thus they could upset Hibbing in the playoffs, but probably not Marshall.

4. Virginia appears they will be average again this season.

5. Greenway has a lot of tradition, but you have to wonder at some point if they will just co-op with Rapids.

6. Eveleth might as well co-op with Virginia, the towns are ten feet apart.

The Range doesn't have the numbers it used to. In Hibbing, my parents' graduating class in early 70's was 500+, my class in mid 90's was 280, now the classes are 150-175. Sucks to see it, but it is what it is.
Bolded for truth. Numbers are key. With a continued population loss on the Range, due to the cyclical nature of a single-sourced economy that is historically prone to violent changes in market demand; and the "brain drain" of young talented people leaving for college and never coming back, the future of high level hockey on the Range is diminishing by the year.

Sure, there are a smattering of great players (Bischoff, A. Johnson), but the idea of putting together well balanced teams can't be done with the limited amount of kids in the youth programs as opposed to past decades.

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Post by karl(east) » Mon Dec 03, 2012 3:58 pm

mnmouth wrote:
greenway1969 wrote:On the one hand you say that there is a decline in traditional family values then you say it is not fair to state there is a lack of hard-working families. I see the two as connected. I am from the same area as you and I can tell you that Bovey has more than its share of welfare and single parent families. My grandparents were poor, but they raised good kids. One grandparent was a single mother (widow) who raised four kids without public assistance. You know the numbers of free lunches at Greenway since you are a former teacher. This is indicative a culture that has become dependent on government rather than individual responsibility and ingenuity.
Don't impugn everyone with selected examples. Hard-working does not necessarily equal living under traditional, family values. I can state this to you as a teacher - bad parenting is not limited to poor people. Sometimes the hardest workers are those with the most to gain, but working hard guarantees nothing.
Not to take us too far down the road of social commentary, but I'd tend to agree here. People might disagree on cause vs. effect based on their political views, but I'd think most would agree that the decline of well-paying jobs on the Range, when coupled with the social disintegration of the past few decades, creates a vicious cycle that is hard to escape. It is sad, though no great surprise, that the many successful young people leave and don't want to come back, and it's a problem in many parts of rural America.

With hockey, however, it does tend to be a pretty simple numbers-and-money game. Most of northeast Minnesota is pretty stagnant in terms of population growth, so the hockey results have followed suit. Hermantown is growing, and the success there is obvious. Duluth as a whole may not be growing, but Duluth is in some ways two cities rolled into one--a struggling, post-industrial west side and an east side that's held up pretty well/probably even grown some recently, thanks to the universities and some old money. I believe Grand Rapids has been growing recently also, but I don't know if the move-ins are families with kids, or merely people retiring to homes on Pokegama Lake. Time will tell, but it's probably not too big a surprise that GR has remained the best hockey town in the region, even though Hibbing is bigger, and Virginia is fairly comparable.

It's a testament to the hockey culture up on the Range that most of the big towns still put out D-I players fairly regularly. Sure, hockey dominance in the Section 7s has shifted south, but the Range towns still compete reasonably well, given the resources they have.

nota612er
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Post by nota612er » Mon Dec 03, 2012 5:53 pm

Karl is dead on.

I always say; if you want to find out what the new Suburbans look like, just make your way to the local hockey rink. Dollars and corresponding player numbers drive sustained success.

It is sad, but people have left the Range for economic opportunity.
To give an example that does not go back too far…four players from Hermantown’s team two years ago had strong Hibbing area ties/parents that left years ago. Do you think Hibbing could have used Skrbich, Mattson, Grillo and Robertson on their roster? I know you can’t compare in a silo, but for sake of analogy if you combine those kids with Johnson, Decenzo, Pechovnik, etc you have a team competing for 7AA.

I know there are numerous other kids playing across the State you could add to the lists. Maybe that is the good news (or bad news depending on what you think of Rangers)....the hockey culture is carried on, just not on the Mesabi.

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Post by GordonBombay99 » Mon Dec 03, 2012 6:01 pm

Nothing would make me happier as a hockey fan here in Minnesota than to see the northern teams come back to relevance where they are a yearly threat to not only make it to state but also win it.

Unfortunately like previously mentioned in this thread that wont happen due to various issues such as numbers in all schools going down and also the lack of big time work in the small towns, I feel its going to take some time and a little luck for a program up there, maybe outside of Rapids, to return to relevance on a large scale.

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Post by almostashappy » Mon Dec 03, 2012 6:18 pm

GordonBombay99 wrote:Unfortunately like previously mentioned in this thread that wont happen due to various issues such as numbers in all schools going down and also the lack of big time work in the small towns, I feel its going to take some time and a little luck for a program up there, maybe outside of Rapids, to return to relevance on a large scale.
How prevalent Up North are one-sport athletes and year-round training programs like FHIT?

Arguable whether it's always a benefit, but there's an awful lot of Metro-area hockey players who are playing year round. I imagine that it would a lot easier (or even necessary) for a great all-around athlete to be a multi-sport athlete at schools with smaller enrollments.

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Post by GordonBombay99 » Mon Dec 03, 2012 6:26 pm

almostashappy wrote:
GordonBombay99 wrote:Unfortunately like previously mentioned in this thread that wont happen due to various issues such as numbers in all schools going down and also the lack of big time work in the small towns, I feel its going to take some time and a little luck for a program up there, maybe outside of Rapids, to return to relevance on a large scale.
How prevalent Up North are one-sport athletes and year-round training programs like FHIT?

Arguable whether it's always a benefit, but there's an awful lot of Metro-area hockey players who are playing year round. I imagine that it would a lot easier (or even necessary) for a great all-around athlete to be a multi-sport athlete at schools with smaller enrollments.
Theres no denying the fact that players in the cities and metro area are always selected to play on elite league teams and teams like that more than kids up north, some say its politics and some say its skill but thats a different argument. My point is kids in the cities have many many more chances to train at hockey faculities compared to up north, kids in the cities have more advantages than anyone else.

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Post by karl(east) » Mon Dec 03, 2012 9:06 pm

nota612er wrote:I know there are numerous other kids playing across the State you could add to the lists. Maybe that is the good news (or bad news depending on what you think of Rangers)....the hockey culture is carried on, just not on the Mesabi.
That's a great way to put it. There are an awful lot of big-name players and coaches all over the state now that have Iron Range roots, even if they're a few generations removed from the mines now...even as they've spread down to the Duluth area or the Metro, there's still some hint of that link to the past. And while I don't want to get overly sappy or idealize the past, there is a lot to be said for tradition, and what it does to keep this sport going.

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Post by oldtimehockey77 » Tue Dec 04, 2012 7:34 am

I have to scratch my head and wonder with all that has been said about the kids and hockey on the Range how did Hibbing ever put together a team that made it to State two years ago?

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Post by rainier » Tue Dec 04, 2012 7:36 am

oldtimehockey77 wrote:I have to scratch my head and wonder with all that has been said about the kids and hockey on the Range how did Hibbing ever put together a team that made it to State two years ago?
A fantastic first line, a hot goaltender, and disciplined defense. Plus, Marshall was weak that season.

DKS1962
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Post by DKS1962 » Tue Dec 04, 2012 7:47 am

Marshall didn't recruit well that season.

Right now you see less and less small A public schools being able to compete with the privates.

That trend will continue.

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Post by rainier » Tue Dec 04, 2012 8:36 am

DKS1962 wrote:Marshall didn't recruit well that season.

Right now you see less and less small A public schools being able to compete with the privates.

That trend will continue.
What?! The Marshall/East/Denfeld/Proctor/Silver Bay Hilltoppers recruit? Just because 1 out of every 7 students at that school is a boys hockey player doesn't mean they recruit. They only have 231 kids, they belong in A! :D

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Post by The Enlightened One » Tue Dec 04, 2012 9:36 am

rainier wrote:
DKS1962 wrote:Marshall didn't recruit well that season.

Right now you see less and less small A public schools being able to compete with the privates.

That trend will continue.
What?! The Marshall/East/Denfeld/Proctor/Silver Bay Hilltoppers recruit? Just because 1 out of every 7 students at that school is a boys hockey player doesn't mean they recruit. They only have 231 kids, they belong in A! :D
Really now, can you blame a kid for suddenly discovering the benefits of a private school education just when the private school has a need at the position that he happens to play? I am sure it s pure coincidence. The Arrowhead Hilltoppers just got lucky, that is all.

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Post by pekyman » Tue Dec 04, 2012 10:06 am

The Enlightened One wrote:
rainier wrote:
DKS1962 wrote:Marshall didn't recruit well that season.

Right now you see less and less small A public schools being able to compete with the privates.

That trend will continue.
What?! The Marshall/East/Denfeld/Proctor/Silver Bay Hilltoppers recruit? Just because 1 out of every 7 students at that school is a boys hockey player doesn't mean they recruit. They only have 231 kids, they belong in A! :D
Really now, can you blame a kid for suddenly discovering the benefits of a private school education just when the private school has a need at the position that he happens to play? I am sure it s pure coincidence. The Arrowhead Hilltoppers just got lucky, that is all.
"Arrowhead Hilltoppers" That has a nice ring to it... That should be their new name.

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Post by mnmouth » Tue Dec 04, 2012 10:39 am

karl(east) wrote:
nota612er wrote:I know there are numerous other kids playing across the State you could add to the lists. Maybe that is the good news (or bad news depending on what you think of Rangers)....the hockey culture is carried on, just not on the Mesabi.
That's a great way to put it. There are an awful lot of big-name players and coaches all over the state now that have Iron Range roots, even if they're a few generations removed from the mines now...even as they've spread down to the Duluth area or the Metro, there's still some hint of that link to the past. And while I don't want to get overly sappy or idealize the past, there is a lot to be said for tradition, and what it does to keep this sport going.
Idealizing the past, grumbling about the present and downright depressed about the future is what many Rangers have regarding economics and high school sports. Forget hockey for a moment. Take a look at champions' lists from all large-revenue sports (football, hockey, basketball) and one would wonder if Range schools were allowed to participate on a school-rotational basis every 5 years or so. Football? Forget it. No Range school has won a title since Eveleth in 1973. Not even a 9-man championship. Boys basketball, post-1950? Gilbert in 1951 and Chisholm 1973, 1975 and 1991. And Chisholm (1984) also has the only girls basketball title since the inception of the league-sponsored tournament in 1974. That's truly grim.

So forgive high-school-sports-loving Rangers if they walk around surly and mumble to themselves. Not a lot in the recent past to remember, let alone revel in. And don't try to convince them that all is well because Duluth East has taken home a couple titles in AA hockey (though that is nearly a generation in the past, as well). That only drives the point home deeper. Rangers past and present might very well take Eveleth's '98 Class A title to their graves as the very last they witnessed or had lovingly retold to them by their grandpa in 2050. Getting sappy about the past is about all they have these days.

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Post by MNHockeyFan » Tue Dec 04, 2012 12:04 pm

mnmouth wrote:Idealizing the past, grumbling about the present and downright depressed about the future is what many Rangers have regarding economics and high school sports. Forget hockey for a moment. Take a look at champions' lists from all large-revenue sports (football, hockey, basketball) and one would wonder if Range schools were allowed to participate on a school-rotational basis every 5 years or so. Football? Forget it. No Range school has won a title since Eveleth in 1973. Not even a 9-man championship. Boys basketball, post-1950? Gilbert in 1951 and Chisholm 1973, 1975 and 1991. And Chisholm (1984) also has the only girls basketball title since the inception of the league-sponsored tournament in 1974. That's truly grim.

So forgive high-school-sports-loving Rangers if they walk around surly and mumble to themselves. Not a lot in the recent past to remember, let alone revel in. And don't try to convince them that all is well because Duluth East has taken home a couple titles in AA hockey (though that is nearly a generation in the past, as well). That only drives the point home deeper. Rangers past and present might very well take Eveleth's '98 Class A title to their graves as the very last they witnessed or had lovingly retold to them by their grandpa in 2050. Getting sappy about the past is about all they have these days.
I kind of knew all that but it was still depressing to read your post, which I think summarized the situation very well. Never say never, but barring some seismic shift in the regional economy it does not appear that the Range will ever get back to its glory days when it was truly dominant in high school hockey. I'm old enough to remember so it's highly unlikely that I'll ever see it. :(
Last edited by MNHockeyFan on Tue Dec 04, 2012 3:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

The Enlightened One
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Post by The Enlightened One » Tue Dec 04, 2012 3:04 pm

MNHockeyFan wrote:
mnmouth wrote:Idealizing the past, grumbling about the present and downright depressed about the future is what many Rangers have regarding economics and high school sports. Forget hockey for a moment. Take a look at champions' lists from all large-revenue sports (football, hockey, basketball) and one would wonder if Range schools were allowed to participate on a school-rotational basis every 5 years or so. Football? Forget it. No Range school has won a title since Eveleth in 1973. Not even a 9-man championship. Boys basketball, post-1950? Gilbert in 1951 and Chisholm 1973, 1975 and 1991. And Chisholm (1984) also has the only girls basketball title since the inception of the league-sponsored tournament in 1974. That's truly grim.

So forgive high-school-sports-loving Rangers if they walk around surly and mumble to themselves. Not a lot in the recent past to remember, let alone revel in. And don't try to convince them that all is well because Duluth East has taken home a couple titles in AA hockey (though that is nearly a generation in the past, as well). That only drives the point home deeper. Rangers past and present might very well take Eveleth's '98 Class A title to their graves as the very last they witnessed or had lovingly retold to them by their grandpa in 2050. Getting sappy about the past is about all they have these days.
I kind of knew all that but it was still depressing to read your post, which I think summarized the situation very well. Never say never, but barring some seismic shift in the regional economy it does not appear that the Range will ever get back to its glory days when it was truly dominant in high school hockey. I'm old enough to remember so it's highly unlikely that I'll never see it. :(
Technology is probably going to play a part in it as well. As mining becomes more high tech and better controlled they will need fewer and fewer people so those towns will not see an increase in population even if the mines rebound. In addition as transportation has became easier, faster and more reliable a person can live in Duluth and commute to the mines to go to work (just ask Skoog from East last year) so even that works against the classic hockey towns. The real shot that they have is to find more or different industries to come up there and to get going but given the unfriendly business climate that exists even that is a long shot. Gone are the glory days i think. What we will see when we take our kids "up north to the range" to play hockey are a whole bunch of classic buildings with some great stories that are slowly being phased out due to lack of use. Pretty sad but the reality of life.

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