Leadership's role in promoting girl's hockey

Discussion of Minnesota Girls High School Hockey

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elliott70
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Post by elliott70 » Wed Oct 10, 2007 11:44 am

spin-o-rama wrote:
xk1 wrote:I think these numbers should be on the MN Hockey website so anyone can see them without having to email someone. In effect, these numbers are the stock ticker on how the organization is doing.
2007 numbers are in the 2007 summer board meeting minutes.

You also might want to contact Lynn Olson who is the MH girls/womens rep.

lynnolson01@aol.com

Lynn has stepped back on some of her duties.
A new rep from the women's section has been elected. Sorry I do not remember the name.
Lynn is still the MN Hockey rep to USA Hockey for womens hockey.

And she also needs to be credited for being a strong leader of girls hockey in MN.

xk1
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Post by xk1 » Wed Oct 10, 2007 12:42 pm

I'm actually really not all that interested in these numbers. I asked the question because people often talk about the growth or lack thereof, of girls hockey. So what I expected is someone with knowledge to come back with figures so whatever claim was being made (I forget now) could be backed with real stats rather than some persons perception based on their local association.

Now the point is that this kind of information should be readily available and easy to find on the MH Hockey site, that's what web sites are for. Instead I find out I can email somebody or read some minutes to get the info. I know I can email them, I don't want to, I expect organizations to de a better job of presenting information given the technology of the day. Perhaps those of you that have responded (whom I suspect are on the board or close to it) can take it upon yourselves to bring up what's on the web site at your next meeting and no, I'm not going to email MH Hockey to ask them.

Bensonmum
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Post by Bensonmum » Wed Oct 10, 2007 1:07 pm

This page on the USA Hockey website has numbers. They're compiled by registration year, gender, age, state, and district. Yes it would make sense if Minnesota Hockey would feature their numbers on their website.

http://www.usahockey.com//Template_Usah ... 3&ID=29074

spin-o-rama
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Post by spin-o-rama » Wed Oct 10, 2007 1:24 pm

It is hard to help those who won't help themselves.

Numbers have been provided. And if that isn't enough then contact info has been provided. The guy with the greatest MH knowledge on here gave you the best answer. Make some calls/emails. Be nice about it. You might be a catalyst to the website providing info that others would appreciate.

Please don't whine about people trying to help when you refuse to do anything.

xk1
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Post by xk1 » Wed Oct 10, 2007 1:28 pm

Well, they kind of get it, it's a year old but whatever. Still, unless I missed it and I may have, the only have all data for 2002 thru 2006 and it is separated by year so you need to open 4 documents to pull out data. They also have 1990 thru 2005 but only totals.

All I wanted to see is a simple data set showing totals by year from say 1990 - 2006 so I could see the girls numbers over that timeframe. Seems to me it's a thing you would want to know to predict trends or show growth. I'm sure someone has this spreadsheet on the National, District and state level, perhaps even by association.

xk1
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Post by xk1 » Wed Oct 10, 2007 1:37 pm

I looked in the summer minutes and saw nothing, perhaps they were handed out to participants.

Do you really think every member should be emailing MN hockey asking for simple participation numbers or perhaps is that why we have websites?

spin-o-rama
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Post by spin-o-rama » Wed Oct 10, 2007 1:49 pm


xk1
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Post by xk1 » Wed Oct 10, 2007 2:07 pm

So last year we had
20+ 1199
19U 57
17-18 210
15-16 451
13-14 1274
11-12 2126
9-10 2111
7-8 1844
6U 1358

for a total of 10,630

I only looked through summer and fall for the 2 years previous to that but found no numbers, but then I missed the 2007 to. One problem is I used to new feature called search, unfortunately the page with the numbers is an image. In any case the question as to growth is still hard to determine given the data available.

xk1
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Post by xk1 » Wed Oct 10, 2007 2:20 pm

It's only one year but it the decline in numbers from u12 to u10 to u8 should be a concern. Your experience may be different but mine was we lost girls as they got older.
Comparing the U8 to U12 numbers looks like a loss of at least 10 teams worth of girls more if kids drop out. This is what this thread was all about, leaderships role in fixing that situation. Having good data allows one to back up making the case that something needs to be done or we may lose some HS teams.

elliott70
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Post by elliott70 » Wed Oct 10, 2007 3:10 pm

xk1 wrote:It's only one year but it the decline in numbers from u12 to u10 to u8 should be a concern. Your experience may be different but mine was we lost girls as they got older.
Comparing the U8 to U12 numbers looks like a loss of at least 10 teams worth of girls more if kids drop out. This is what this thread was all about, leaderships role in fixing that situation. Having good data allows one to back up making the case that something needs to be done or we may lose some HS teams.

This was discussed at the October 7 girls committee meeting in St Cloud.
Tito was asked if he would chair a committee for recruitment.
He, like most of us, is busy and stayed off saying yes until he had a discussion with his wife, but was eager to help in some form.

This is also a problem on the 'boys' side.
MN Hockey has a committee but it seems to have stalled, spun its wheels, or never got in gear.

So a MN Hockey board member at that meeting suggested it go forward from the girls committee.


And, also, there are some very good ideas on this thread.



What I would like are comments as to what can/should MN Hockey do to help with recruitment.
Thank you!

finance_gal
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Post by finance_gal » Wed Oct 10, 2007 3:46 pm

I don't know about recruiting more girls to play hockey but what we have seen with our 8 year old daughter is that MN Hockey would rather see her not play hockey than play outside her area even though we live 5 miles closer to the other area's arena. They told us we have to play in a town that we rarely go to (my daughter goes to a private school) and if we didn't like it then she can't play hockey, so guess what she dosen't play hockey. She plays Softball, Basketball and Tennis, Problem is solved for us, while MN Hockey is still trying to recruit players.

greybeard58
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Post by greybeard58 » Wed Oct 10, 2007 3:47 pm

Seems to me that the planning and the publicity would be the best committees to do it.

xk1
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Post by xk1 » Wed Oct 10, 2007 4:02 pm

Does MN Hockey have a presence at Wild games? By that I mean a booth or something fun to attract kids so they can be directed to their association.

Are you at the State Fair?

Am I correct in saying recruitment needs to be in the age 6-8 range?

Do you see the target audience to market to as the kids or parents? I suspect both so what would attract such an audience? I think it has to be more than flyers and clinics.

I think clinics are boring for kids, they want to compete at something then learn how to do it right rather than vice versa. The end of outdoor ice is the biggest reason hockey has stagnated, IMHO. How about getting an attraction, such as a WIld player, to play pond hockey with a bunch of kids that are new to hockey.

Is the problem statewide or is it more metro?

FWIW, My daughter was at the rink doing figure skating, she saw the hockey and told us she wanted to do that.

spin-o-rama
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Post by spin-o-rama » Wed Oct 10, 2007 4:06 pm

MH & the Girl Scouts did a Put the Biscuit in the Net clinic at the end of Sept. I think it was a great way for girls and parents to get a taste of hockey with the minimum of commitment. Elliott, do you know if there were any recruits gained from that?

The YMCA runs floor hockey leagues. Could MH team up with them to do a program similar to the Girl Scout clinic?

Learn to skate programs are run by ISI and USFSA. Our local figure skating club recruits from the classes. I'm sure that USFSA wants to keep kids in the fs net, but what could be done to recruit from these classes?

Hux
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Post by Hux » Thu Oct 11, 2007 12:49 am

spin-o-rama wrote: Learn to skate programs are run by ISI and USFSA. Our local figure skating club recruits from the classes. I'm sure that USFSA wants to keep kids in the fs net, but what could be done to recruit from these classes?
Have you ever been hit with one of those plastic skate guards? I have, and they can leave a pretty good welt. Recruiting around the toe pick set is risky business because it takes money out of the pockets of the figure skating coaches. You want to talk about a cash cow, as soon as a kid shows any proficiency at maintaining balance while propelling themselves across the ice, the coaches find the parents and hand them a card. Next thing ya know mom is back with little Janey for "private" lessons with a half a dozen other kids at $45 for a half hour session.

Of course, if you are brave, and resourceful you can indeed save a child from a life of bumps, bruises and bad fashion by working the parents of the ones who fall, and come off the ice crying. You would be surprised how a well placed "Ya know, in ____ years of coaching hockey, I have never had to use one of these." as you hand them an ice pack. Once you open the door to the fact that kids are safer playing hockey in head to toe equipment, and dispel any notions that the sport is violent, you can usually hook the parents of little Betty Bump on giving hockey a try.

spin-o-rama
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Post by spin-o-rama » Thu Oct 11, 2007 7:07 am

Hux wrote:
spin-o-rama wrote: Learn to skate programs are run by ISI and USFSA. Our local figure skating club recruits from the classes. I'm sure that USFSA wants to keep kids in the fs net, but what could be done to recruit from these classes?
Have you ever been hit with one of those plastic skate guards? I have, and they can leave a pretty good welt. Recruiting around the toe pick set is risky business because it takes money out of the pockets of the figure skating coaches. You want to talk about a cash cow, as soon as a kid shows any proficiency at maintaining balance while propelling themselves across the ice, the coaches find the parents and hand them a card. Next thing ya know mom is back with little Janey for "private" lessons with a half a dozen other kids at $45 for a half hour session.

Of course, if you are brave, and resourceful you can indeed save a child from a life of bumps, bruises and bad fashion by working the parents of the ones who fall, and come off the ice crying. You would be surprised how a well placed "Ya know, in ____ years of coaching hockey, I have never had to use one of these." as you hand them an ice pack. Once you open the door to the fact that kids are safer playing hockey in head to toe equipment, and dispel any notions that the sport is violent, you can usually hook the parents of little Betty Bump on giving hockey a try.
We may be lucky. Our fs instructor has 3 boys who play hockey and is sympathetic to our "cross-training".

Interestingly, the hockey coaches are way more bothered by my kids doing both.

Bensonmum
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Post by Bensonmum » Thu Oct 11, 2007 9:23 am

Biscuit in the Net = Good
Tito Elumba = Good
Stealing Figure Skaters = Good (Save the poor girls from a life of "bad fashion", too much make-up, humorless coaches from former Soviet bloc countries, lots of tears)

finance_gal wrote:
MN Hockey would rather see her not play hockey than play outside her area


USA and Minnesota Hockey's tyrannical (almost anal) level of control = Really, Really Bad
My kid wants to play T-Ball, I look around for the program that suits us best, maybe where some of her friends are, maybe close to my work, maybe by Grandma's house, maybe the closest park with a team, maybe where her uncle is the coach. My kid wants to play Mighty-Mite hockey, you got one choice, chump, take it or leave it. Or just move, sucker.

elliott70
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Post by elliott70 » Thu Oct 11, 2007 11:12 am

greybeard58 wrote:Seems to me that the planning and the publicity would be the best committees to do it.
Publicity & Promotion has a sub-committee. Been there for better than a year and I was told by one member that they have yet to have a meeting.

elliott70
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Post by elliott70 » Thu Oct 11, 2007 11:21 am

xk1 wrote:Does MN Hockey have a presence at Wild games? By that I mean a booth or something fun to attract kids so they can be directed to their association.

Current presence is local assn selling programs.

Are you at the State Fair?

State Fair was brought up at last meeting. Committee is studying how best to approach it since it cover many days/hours.

Am I correct in saying recruitment needs to be in the age 6-8 range?
Yes, for the most part.
But think in terms of what could be done to recruit and retain kids later, also.
Kids thay play hockey (at any level) are more likely to have their kids play hockey.


Do you see the target audience to market to as the kids or parents? I suspect both so what would attract such an audience? I think it has to be more than flyers and clinics.
One on one - is good.
Inviting non-hockey people to a hockey game, etc....
But we also need to be economical to some degree.
Knowing why - kids & parents are turning down hockey, then either disspelling wrong facts or fixing (to the extent possible) the other negatives.


I think clinics are boring for kids, they want to compete at something then learn how to do it right rather than vice versa. The end of outdoor ice is the biggest reason hockey has stagnated, IMHO. How about getting an attraction, such as a WIld player, to play pond hockey with a bunch of kids that are new to hockey.
HS and possibly college players is much easier, but the Wild very much support MN Hockey.

Is the problem statewide or is it more metro?
statewide

FWIW, My daughter was at the rink doing figure skating, she saw the hockey and told us she wanted to do that.
Attracting kids participating in other athletic events is a good source as they are already interested in athletics.

elliott70
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Post by elliott70 » Thu Oct 11, 2007 11:27 am

spin-o-rama wrote:MH & the Girl Scouts did a Put the Biscuit in the Net clinic at the end of Sept. I think it was a great way for girls and parents to get a taste of hockey with the minimum of commitment. Elliott, do you know if there were any recruits gained from that?

I do not remember the number but but remember it being very high for new palyer sign-ups.


The YMCA runs floor hockey leagues. Could MH team up with them to do a program similar to the Girl Scout clinic?

I think that is a great idea.

Learn to skate programs are run by ISI and USFSA. Our local figure skating club recruits from the classes. I'm sure that USFSA wants to keep kids in the fs net, but what could be done to recruit from these classes?
Touchy, but it could very well be a source. Usually a goo dnumber of boys there as well.

elliott70
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Post by elliott70 » Thu Oct 11, 2007 11:31 am

Quote Bensonmum:
USA and Minnesota Hockey's tyrannical (almost anal) level of control = Really, Really Bad
My kid wants to play T-Ball, I look around for the program that suits us best, maybe where some of her friends are, maybe close to my work, maybe by Grandma's house, maybe the closest park with a team, maybe where her uncle is the coach. My kid wants to play Mighty-Mite hockey, you got one choice, chump, take it or leave it. Or just move, sucker




This is something the DD's have been discussing for some time.
Finding the right solution has been difficult.
And this is not a USA Hockey problem. MN Hockey needs to find a way to resolve it.

finance_gal
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Post by finance_gal » Thu Oct 11, 2007 12:05 pm

If MN hockey is to grow the participant base they need to decide who they want to cater to, the elite player or to the masses. Right now it seems like an inordinate amount of time and resources are directed tword the elite player while the masses have to live with rules and systems that really shouldn't apply to them. MN Hockey needs to decide who their going to serve and do that to the best of their abilities.

elliott70
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Post by elliott70 » Thu Oct 11, 2007 12:32 pm

finance_gal wrote:If MN hockey is to grow the participant base they need to decide who they want to cater to, the elite player or to the masses. Right now it seems like an inordinate amount of time and resources are directed tword the elite player while the masses have to live with rules and systems that really shouldn't apply to them. MN Hockey needs to decide who their going to serve and do that to the best of their abilities.

Our (the MN Hockey board) has a responsibilty to both.
And you cannot have one without the other.
USA Hockey mandates a select program. This program for the most part is self-sufficient in $.
MN Hockey and the DD's spend a lot of time on teh A, B, C programs.
We (MH Board) needs to find a way to help associations with squirt, mite programs. Recruitment is the biggest issue I see.

spin-o-rama
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Post by spin-o-rama » Thu Oct 11, 2007 2:12 pm

You've got to win over the parents. They are the ones who ultimately decide what activities to introduce their kids too.

Some things that intimidate parents about hockey and possible solutions-

1) The length of the season. Many associations do mite evaluations in Sept, and then start up in October and finish in early March. That's 5 1/2 months for a house league. Comparably, soccer is about 2 - 2 1/2 months long. The initial time commitment needs to be less. If the season were cut in 2, like Eden Prairie does for their Rookie Camp, then more families may want to try it out.

2) Cost is a huge factor. You can't hide the truth. Parents know that hockey is expensive. Mite registration is anywhere from $200 to beyond $500. Some associations offer free or $50 registration for first year players. Even with this break the equipment cost is $150+. That is probably at least double what basketball charges. Cheap season-long equipment rentals (maybe included in the first year registration charge) could help. Also, the Put the Biscuit In the Net program provides equipment, including skates and stick, for their clinic introduction. Similar clinics could be successful.

3) Hockey is tough to learn. Other sports have the advantage that kids know how to walk and run. Hockey requires them to learn to skate. And when you combine that with another foreign skill, stickhandling, it can seem overwhelming. If kids were learning stickhandling from a floor hockey program and skating from a Learn to Skate program it would be easier to combine the 2.

More recruiting opportunities. Some cities do a city house league that is independant of MH. St Louis Park, Golden Valley, Crystal, Tonka, and others do a little co-op house league. Outdoors for about 6 weeks. MH could help sponsor and run these and then recruit off them.

What about school field trips to the rink to go skating? Do the schools do floor hockey in gym class?

elliott70
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Post by elliott70 » Thu Oct 11, 2007 2:36 pm

spin-o-rama wrote:.

Do the schools do floor hockey in gym class?
My granddaughters 4th grade class plays floor hockey in their gym class.

4 girls play with 20 boys, the other girls play something else.

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