Iron Range girls drop the gloves; cops on the case!

Discussion of Minnesota Girls High School Hockey

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skatehardordie
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Iron Range girls drop the gloves; cops on the case!

Post by skatehardordie » Thu Feb 07, 2008 3:18 pm

pics, video anyone?

MOOSE LAKE, Minn. (AP) — The Moose Lake Police Department is investigating a fight during a high school hockey game that temporarily left a girl partially paralyzed.
Kim Ergen, 15, of Moose Lake was among those vying for a puck in front of the International Falls net in the final seconds of a Jan. 26 game.
A fight ensued, punches were allegedly thrown and Ergen lay motionless on the ice once the period expired. No penalty was called on the play.
Moose Lake coach Joe Mohelsky said Ergen was briefly paralyzed from the waist down. She was later diagnosed with a concussion at a local hospital, but was otherwise fine.
"It was very scary, possibly the scariest experience I've ever seen in a hockey situation," Mohelsky said. "I've never seen anything like this, even when I played. It was unbelievable to witness."
International Falls coach Bruce Elson said some of his players threw punches, but he said Ergen was not hit.
"It was an emotionally charged game," he said. "Someone started something, I don't know who."
Ergen was able to practice with the team Tuesday night, but on doctor's orders she won't be able to play in a game for two weeks.
Moose Lake Police Chief Dale Heaton said his department is interviewing players to see if Ergen was punched or accidentally fell and hit her head.
Investigators will pass along a recommendation to the Carlton County attorney on whether assault charges are warranted.
Elson said he's surprised police are involved.
"A criminal investigation? A criminal investigation into what?" Elson said. "Kids get injured sometimes ... but there was no intent (to injure) by my players."

hockeya1a
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Re: Iron Range girls drop the gloves; cops on the case!

Post by hockeya1a » Thu Feb 07, 2008 3:37 pm

skatehardordie wrote:pics, video anyone?

Elson said he's surprised police are involved.
"A criminal investigation? A criminal investigation into what?" Elson said. "Kids get injured sometimes ... but there was no intent (to injure) by my players."
Is that like,I did not mean to hit her my hand slipped! :oops:

INDUS
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girls drop gloves

Post by INDUS » Thu Feb 07, 2008 6:21 pm

good luck to the Eveleth girls team, don't knock down any of those Moose Lake girls or there maybe a criminal investigation. Why was this story published now on the first day of sections???The Int'l Falls community deserves an apology.

Thunderbird77
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Post by Thunderbird77 » Thu Feb 07, 2008 10:52 pm

This has to be the most ridiculous story of the hockey season. There is a criminal investigation underway for an incident where no penalty was called involving ALL minors in a h.igh school game. Do you think if the player gets indicted that she will be tried as an adult and have to spend some time behind bars? Will we now have to have police at all girls hockey games in case there is a felony committed during the game.? Is it only a crime iif no penalty is called?

SportsMa
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Post by SportsMa » Thu Feb 07, 2008 10:59 pm

WCCO just interviewed the girl's mother on the news tonight. Both police departments are conducting the investigation.

Here is a link to the Strib's version:

http://www.startribune.com/local/15404081.html

GivinYaTheBusiness
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Location: Iron Range

Ridiculous

Post by GivinYaTheBusiness » Fri Feb 08, 2008 6:01 am

Are these people serious? It's hockey...Elson is right, kids are going to get injured. How many concussions have we seen go along the way? At least one a night in Minnesota, I'd say. If people want girls hockey to be considered legit, they should step up to the plate and realize that it's girls HOCKEY.

"I went to a fight the other night, and a hockey game broke out."
-Rodney Dangerfield

Marty McSorely
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15 penalties

Post by Marty McSorely » Fri Feb 08, 2008 9:06 am

What's the story with 15 penalties.....Was it a girls hockey game or a bar room brawl?

tomASS
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Location: Chaska

Post by tomASS » Fri Feb 08, 2008 9:28 am

Evidently there is not enough crime or other juvenile mischief for Barney to investigate up there. Hopefully Andy doesn't give him a bullet.



Image

MNHockeyFan
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Re: 15 penalties

Post by MNHockeyFan » Fri Feb 08, 2008 9:48 am

Marty McSorely wrote:What's the story with 15 penalties.....Was it a girls hockey game or a bar room brawl?
What I would really like to know is why weren't any penalties called after the melee' ended? What were the refs thinking, that fighting should not be a penalty?

Any players who actually threw punches should have received majors and game disqualifications. If the ref had made the proper calls, this would have prevented the guilty Int'l Falls players from playing in their next playoff game, which as it turned out was last night. They barely won this game in two overtimes, 4-3 against East Range. Assuming all the reports of the incident are correct, and there really were one of more Falls girls who really did throw punches or commit some other serious infraction for which they should have received majors, the outcome in last night's game could well have been different. The league says it's a matter that should be handled locally, because there were not penalities called, but shouldn't they look into WHY there were no penalties called?

tomASS
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Re: 15 penalties

Post by tomASS » Fri Feb 08, 2008 10:04 am

MNHockeyFan wrote:
Marty McSorely wrote:What's the story with 15 penalties.....Was it a girls hockey game or a bar room brawl?
What I would really like to know is why weren't any penalties called after the melee' ended? What were the refs thinking, that fighting should not be a penalty?

Any players who actually threw punches should have received majors and game disqualifications. If the ref had made the proper calls, this would have prevented the guilty Int'l Falls players from playing in their next playoff game, which as it turned out was last night. They barely won this game in two overtimes, 4-3 against East Range. Assuming all the reports of the incident are correct, and there really were one of more Falls girls who really did throw punches or commit some other serious infraction for which they should have received majors, the outcome in last night's game could well have been different. The league says it's a matter that should be handled locally, because there were not penalities called, but shouldn't they look into WHY there were no penalties called?
I can only go by all the other viewpoints since I have not seen any video nor did I see the game in person. However, if the police are investigating and the parents decide to bring charges forward, the action of the referees and the lack of any penalties would need to be called into question in regard to the validity of the charges.

Unless there is video to prove the referees did not act appropriately, I think it would be very difficult for any legal action. This needs to be handled within the school district and not by local law enforcement.

I'm not a lawyer nor did I stay a a Holiday Inn Express last night.

hacker
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Post by hacker » Fri Feb 08, 2008 10:22 am

I agree with the I Falls coach. Investigate what? If charges are pressed the judge should laugh this one right out of the courtroom! Tell the kid to toughen up or join dance.

sined06
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Post by sined06 » Fri Feb 08, 2008 2:13 pm

A. The girl should have been penalized by the refs. I think if this would have happened the the cops wouldn't have been involved.

B. I hope the I'Falls coach took it into his own hands and penalized the girl throwing the punches. She should have sat out the next game as if she would have been assessed the appropriate penatly.

C. Fighting is NOT directly part of the game. If two 15 year old girls were fighting on the street and one feel out in front of a car and became temporarily paralyzed the cops defiantly be involved and the girl would suffer the consequents. What makes this situation different then in a hockey game?

OntheEdge
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Post by OntheEdge » Fri Feb 08, 2008 2:28 pm

Thunderbird77 wrote:This has to be the most ridiculous story of the hockey season. There is a criminal investigation underway for an incident where no penalty was called involving ALL minors in a h.igh school game. Do you think if the player gets indicted that she will be tried as an adult and have to spend some time behind bars? Will we now have to have police at all girls hockey games in case there is a felony committed during the game.? Is it only a crime iif no penalty is called?
I have no personal stake in this. But as it was reported on one of the Twin Cities news stations the Police made the point that the girl was pummeled after the whistle and while she was laying on the ice in a non threatening posture. If this version is correct criminal charges could be filed. As the police chief stated such an act is no different than if someone outside the hockey rink was in a prone position and beat up. I think people should know that just because hockey is sometimes a violent sport there is a line that should not be crossed. I'm not saying such line was crossed in this case since I wasn't there but remember that there is precedence in taking the position that criminal assault charges can be filed in hockey. Remember when Bertuzzi was hit with a criminal suit a few years ago for coldcocking a defenseless player and paralyzing him?

hockeya1a
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Post by hockeya1a » Fri Feb 08, 2008 2:33 pm

hacker wrote:I agree with the I Falls coach. Investigate what? If charges are pressed the judge should laugh this one right out of the courtroom! Tell the kid to toughen up or join dance.
So you think it is ok to punch other people?

There is not one kid who is out for hockey expects to get punched during the game. We do not even allow Checking in girls hockey why should punching be allowed?

I blame the refs too! they let way too much go, if they were to control the game from the begining these things would be few and far between.
I believe the refs need to tell each team what they expect and then stick to it.

Mr. McTabish
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Post by Mr. McTabish » Fri Feb 08, 2008 2:54 pm

I saw the story on the news, and only know what the story told. I wasn't there. If everything reported was true, she did get punched from behind, and/or while she was laying motionless on the ground in the back of her neck. I don't see how that couldn't result in penalty. I also disagree with the I Falls coach for dismissing his player's actions so easily. Just another example of how kids aren't held responsible for their actions anymore.

hacker
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Post by hacker » Fri Feb 08, 2008 2:58 pm

hockeya1a wrote:
hacker wrote:I agree with the I Falls coach. Investigate what? If charges are pressed the judge should laugh this one right out of the courtroom! Tell the kid to toughen up or join dance.
So you think it is ok to punch other people?

There is not one kid who is out for hockey expects to get punched during the game. We do not even allow Checking in girls hockey why should punching be allowed?

I blame the refs too! they let way too much go, if they were to control the game from the begining these things would be few and far between.
I believe the refs need to tell each team what they expect and then stick to it.
I never said it was ok to punch someone and how do you know the girl who got hurt got punched. There are more injuries from unintentional contact (head down) and cross checks then punching.

How can you blame the refs? They get blamed if your team loses and know they get blamed because some kid got hurt! Maybe she provoked the other team?

eastsidehockey
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Post by eastsidehockey » Fri Feb 08, 2008 3:29 pm

International Falls coach Bruce Elson said some of his players threw punches

The I'Falls coach just admitted that punches were thrown, those girls who threw punches should be ejected and since it sounds like it happened at the end of the game, they should be suspended one game.

This is a High School sport, not college, not JR's, not the NHL, if you throw a punch your done.

Sounds like there was no video which is unfortunate, if there was MSHSL should look into suspending those girls regardless of what team they play for. It is ridiculous, girls hockey players throwing punches, grow up

BTW i dont think an investigation is warranted, but a suspension
Last edited by eastsidehockey on Fri Feb 08, 2008 3:38 pm, edited 2 times in total.

GivinYaTheBusiness
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Post by GivinYaTheBusiness » Fri Feb 08, 2008 5:41 pm

sined06 wrote:
C. Fighting is NOT directly part of the game. If two 15 year old girls were fighting on the street and one feel out in front of a car and became temporarily paralyzed the cops defiantly be involved and the girl would suffer the consequents. What makes this situation different then in a hockey game?
The difference in the situation is that she was playing a contact sport, regardless of checking or not. She signed on to play a game (a game in which people are often times hurt) and she just got the short end of the deal. If you can't stand the heat...get outta the kitchen.

chickendance
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Post by chickendance » Fri Feb 08, 2008 7:24 pm

Most of this thread has focused on parents debating an entirely different set of issues, in my view.

The real question is whether this is criminal, or warrants a criminal investigation. I can't believe that this rises to a criminal investigation, a crime or one that should be played out in juvenile court. If the police are investigating its about whether a crime was committed and whether criminal (juvenile) charges should be filed. A crime is not defined based on the severity of the injury.

This is being investigated because of the resulting injury and media coverage. Had nothing happened it wouldn't be in the news and it wouldn't be being investigated.

It's horrible that this young lady was injured and had to go through the terrifying ordeal. I hope she fully recovers as it sounds she will.

MNHockeyFan
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Post by MNHockeyFan » Fri Feb 08, 2008 9:29 pm

chickendance wrote:A crime is not defined based on the severity of the injury.
Not true. In an assault situation both intent and the extent of injuries that the victim suffers are taken into consideration. And of course we've all heard of cases where an assault charge is later raised to manslaughter or murder when the victim dies.

Note that in no way am I saying this incident was an assault, but I do support them doing the investigation to figure out exactly what happened. I'm sure everyone involved is very relieved to see the girl on the road to making a full recovery. But just think if she had been permanently paralyzed. If this had been the result then you can be sure this incident would be receiving WAY more media attention than it already has.

It could well be that after interviewing all of the kids taking part, the refs and maybe fans who got a close look at what happened, it is determined that her injury was purely accidental and in line with the risks one takes when playing organized hockey. I certainly hope this is the case. But if they determine that her injury was, for example, caused by another player who pummeled her as she lay defenseless on the ice, then I do think the offending player(s) should pay an appropriate penalty. If it's determined that this is what really happened, I don't think it's the sort of risk that hockey players should be forced to accept every time they lace up their skates. If such incidents are allowed and people want to look the other way ("it's just part of the game, etc.") you're just asking for more of the same. That would be the last thing the girls game needs.

So I just say let's try to figure out what happened, and then we can probably move on.

chickendance
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Post by chickendance » Fri Feb 08, 2008 9:33 pm

not true...the severity is used in sentencing...but the crime is defined by the act

I won't argue MN Statutes 609 with you. Not the point.

MNHockeyFan
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Post by MNHockeyFan » Fri Feb 08, 2008 9:58 pm

chickendance wrote:not true...the severity is used in sentencing...but the crime is defined by the act

I won't argue MN Statutes 609 with you. Not the point.
I am not an attorney but I'm certainly aware there are cases of attempted assault vs. assault vs. aggravated assault. If you're an attorney and know that that the severity of the injury in no way influences what charges are brought by the prosecuting attorney, then I guess I am mistaken. I just find it hard to believe that if I go up and punch a guy in the head but he shakes it off and maybe hits me back even harder, I would be charged the same if my punch had knocked him out cold and he fell back, hit his head and ended up having serious brain damage (or was paralyzed).

In any case this doesn't change the argument that they should try to determine what happened, which is exactly what they are trying to do.

chickendance
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Post by chickendance » Fri Feb 08, 2008 10:27 pm

Not an attorney...but lets just say in the loop on these kinds of investigations...

My point is that police investigate to determine if there is reason to believe there was a crime. They are not fact finders for the sake of finding out what happened on a broader scale. They in effect are trying to find a crime, not the opposite.

My point is that this becomes a criminal investigation which is a very different world for all parties to be subjected to. It is a big deal and shouldn't be considered as a small issue or lightly.

Sorry, but I do believe that if this had not resulted in the injury described, we would not be having a criminal investigation. If she punched her in the face and everyone walked away, we would not be investigating. However, I am very quick to also point out I wasn't there and don't know what all transpired any more than anyone else on the thread.

Okay I will drop it.

MNHockeyFan
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Post by MNHockeyFan » Fri Feb 08, 2008 10:34 pm

chickendance wrote:Sorry, but I do believe that if this had not resulted in the injury described, we would not be having a criminal investigation.
That was the point I was trying to make - the extent of injury DOES have an impact.

I will drop it too. We'll see where this goes, if anywhere.

hockeya1a
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Post by hockeya1a » Fri Feb 08, 2008 11:22 pm

Let's get Judge Judy to rule over this one :lol:

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