Mr Hockey wrote:Ridder was built for womens hockey...Girls should play where teams at their genders highest level play and that is Ridder Arena. Girls in Minnesota should want to grow up and want to play their college hockey there. Worst case scenario they could play there as visitors.
The atmosphere was outstanding at Aldrich Arena and at Ridder before.
At the ex and at most girls games throughout the season no matter where you go there is no atmosphere. Another thing you may notice is that every time they show the crowd it seems like it is all high school boys coming to the games, not girls. During the regular season it was at least 80% moms and dads.
Those six moms in Cloquet ruined any chance of atmosphere for the girls. The best part is that they didn't even make the tournament the year that themoms went to court. HAHAHAHA. If Ridder Arena ever sells out and there is a need for a bigger venue then I have no problem with the tournament moving to the Excel Energy Center. The best arena for the tournament however would be Engelstad Arena in Thief River Falls. That is basically just like the Excel Energy Center without the top bowl. It really is a palace. OUT!!!
Mr. Hockey, one too many concussions? Your logic is absurd. "Playing where their genders highest level play.." They should be punished because society hasn't embraced women's hockey yet at the professional level? Your "Worst case scenario.." is completely insulting to all women who play hockey. How about if girls grow up to be women who play hockey at the college that best suits them for their future aspirations and not a college just because it is rated #1 or even a DI school.
Atmosphere at a sports event is your perception of what it is. I've had a lot of fun and atmosphere sitting with my friends, family & Super Fans who are excited about the game. If you need to have a full arena to have a good time, that's sad. If you think there is no "atmosphere" at a girls game because they aren't supported by the community - come to Alexandria.
At some point the committee who makes these decisions is going to have to quit looking at the laws based on what the boys have and start looking at what's best for the sport. The reality is that after 15 years of tourney, the girls' attendance is nowhere near that of the boys. I'm talking about the X here. I seriously doubt anyone is suggesting the girls partake in an arena that's filled with mold and mildew, pretty low quality standards to say the least. Those are health issues of course. But the girls are skating to a relatively low capacity. And in a way they cannot go back to Ridder because on the days that two big-school draws meet, it only holds some 3400 seat. Well those games will be in the 4,000s. The rest of the time it's not or pushing capacity.
I have to admit I'm a bit let down recently by the girls' game to this point, or recently for that matter. When I saw the games on tv at Ridder, I genuinely felt a high level of excitement. Nowadays I feel next to nothing. I seriously hope the committee looks into this "issue" at some point since IMO it is putting a might big stall on the growth of the girls' game. Having said that, the last tourney I attended I believe was the year SSP won in A, and EP and Coon Rapids met in the final. Especially the AA game had a jovial atmosphere because the CR fans were the bomb. They were getting killed but still managed to convey a sense of win in them. I can only wish that were the case all the time at the X, but unless huge populations draw then the game is gonna have difficulty generating the excitement.
dochockey wrote:
So the girls didn't earn the chance to treated the same as the boys teams? how about all those years they wern't allowed to have teams? do those years go twords earning the right to play in the Ex? Don’t blame six parents in Cloquet for making the MSHSL follow the law. Title IX says that girls shall have the same as the boys as far as facilities. So that’s what the court upheld. If they move the girls to Ridder they would have to move the boys to a comparable facility and the boys tournament is such a cash cow they can’t afford to do that. So if you want it changed call your congressman and have them change title IX . Ax the Ex…are you prepared to do that for the boys also? Can the MSHSL afford to that?
Doc your logic would say Ridder should never have been built and Women Gophers should still be at Mariucci - I know you don't agreee with that? The UM consider Ridder the best Women's facility in Women's College Hockey - if these girls aspire to play at UM why would this not work? This year the tickets jumped to $15 and attendance dropped. The difference is the Boys sell out the X for big games and have significantly more in the X for all games. In this time of tight economics and the discussion on cutting games 5 games in the season lets look at smart ways to manage budgets and have a great experience. The X has been great but the trend is going backwards on attendance. Take it back to Ridder and lets make it a place fans want to go to.
Ridder is a comprable facility to Mariucci, when the U built it they had to jump through plenty of hoops to make certain that it had comprable meeting rooms, locker rooms and seating capacity withing a certain percentacge of Mariucci. For daughter, neice and myself we love Ridder and wouldn't mind at all playing in that facility but to say it's comprable to to what the boys are offered for their use is ridicualaus. The law of the land which has been reaffirmed by the supreme court, along with district courts throught the country has said girls have the same rights when it comes to facilities and training as the boys and to imply that the girls now have to EARN the chance to play in the same facility is a slap in the face to those women who fought to even have the chance to play high school and college sports.
Again, and I'm getting a wee bit political here, equality laws only cover up the present. That is that the boys draw far more at the X. At some point you're gonna have to accept this and move on to a facility that is smaller, generating a rocking good time just for what it is irregardless of what the heck the boys are doing. Until the people enacting these laws accepts this, they'll be the curse of the sports own stalling.
Why not move the girls tourney to the Metrodome? If they want empty seats, we can give them a hell of a lot of empty seats.
I have attended the girls tourney at Ridder and genuinely felt excited watching the game. However, watching a girls regular season game at the local arena with 50 parents being the fan base was like pulling fingernails it was so dull. I find it hard for anyone to believe that they would prefer to play in a nice arena over an exciting one.
Don't give me the crap about the experience of playing at the X, most boys will tell you that playing the Schwans Cup there is less than exciting.
Get Some wrote:Why not move the girls tourney to the Metrodome? If they want empty seats, we can give them a hell of a lot of empty seats.
I have attended the girls tourney at Ridder and genuinely felt excited watching the game. However, watching a girls regular season game at the local arena with 50 parents being the fan base was like pulling fingernails it was so dull. I find it hard for anyone to believe that they would prefer to play in a nice arena over an exciting one.
Don't give me the crap about the experience of playing at the X, most boys will tell you that playing the Schwans Cup there is less than exciting.
Let's have the MSHSL do an exit survey of all the girls who have ever played at the X to see how they feel about it. It's their experience and opinion that counts, right? A majority consensus can then be used for discussion. It has been a topic on this forum every year at this time for as long as I can remember.
Hey Pond. I guarantee you that I have watched and announced more high school girls games than virtually anyone here. I suppose the statement of playing where your highest level is might have come out wrong but to look at an arena that has 16,000 empty seats is not the greatest way to promote women's hockey. You put that same 2,000 or 3,000 people over in Ridder and the place ROCKS!!! The Gopher/Badger game last year with the place full was outstanding!!!
There are many great tournaments for girls and women during the season and offseason. Also, with the Minnesota Whitecaps out there the popularity will grow each year.
One thing that bothers me is I would have guessed that after 15 years you would have seen more women coaches but I believe that there are only around 10 in the entire state. I am not sure but you sure don't see many women coaches or officials. At least there have been some growth with female officials. You actually are starting to see an average of one per game now in a three person crew.
I hope one day that the majority of the coaches and officials are females. Young girls need to see that there are many opportunities in the game when they are done playing at the high school or college levels.
What a great tournament game last night. Congrats to the Ponies!!!
Get Some wrote:Why not move the girls tourney to the Metrodome? If they want empty seats, we can give them a hell of a lot of empty seats.
I have attended the girls tourney at Ridder and genuinely felt excited watching the game. However, watching a girls regular season game at the local arena with 50 parents being the fan base was like pulling fingernails it was so dull. I find it hard for anyone to believe that they would prefer to play in a nice arena over an exciting one.
Don't give me the crap about the experience of playing at the X, most boys will tell you that playing the Schwans Cup there is less than exciting.
Let's have the MSHSL do an exit survey of all the girls who have ever played at the X to see how they feel about it. It's their experience and opinion that counts, right? A majority consensus can then be used for discussion. It has been a topic on this forum every year at this time for as long as I can remember.
I think the MGHSCA answer on cutting season schedule and games was right put this to the schools to decide - there are many economic factors to probably consider.
I am not sure any of us know the economics of all this but - the cost of opening and running the X for 1500-3400 fans or opening and running Ridder has to be more Green and responsible to be at Ridder. If we ignore responsible decisions you create greater problems. I don't know any HS that starts the season saying hey players who should we play this year, when, where, what time......I think if you ask a kid about playing in the State Tournament they just want to make the State Tournament, but I do understand your desire to make this a great experience for the players but there are probably many ways to do that.
Hey Pond make sure to put in the survey how it felt to see all of the empty seats. That would be a bummer for them and they probably would frown. Granted the locker rooms are great and the score board is cool and it is something that they can tell their children someday but would it be bad if someday they told their children "I played on the same rink as Natalie Darwitz and Chrissy Wendell" at Ridder Arena. The two biggest names in the history of the sport at the high school level.
How about having the girls play the first two rounds at Ridder and the Championship games at the Ex? The anticipation alone might bring the crowd level up to about 5,000 for the championship game with 2,000 or so for the first two rounds at Ridder.
Also Pond why aren't you mad like I am that the Quarterfinal games are not on TV. I would have liked to see Lorence and MacDonald from Irondale. They put the boy's quarterfinals on the tube so why not the girls? That does bug me and they should change it. I believe all fans would like to see the quarterfinal games. All of these girls do get the chance to go to the Ex but no one gets to see them on TV if they lose on Wednesday or Thursday.
Get Some, I agree with you about the Schwan Cup. I was a public address announcer there this year for big games with White Bear Lake vs Holy Angels and Minnetonka vs Edina.
You would think that the crowds would be huge but they were similar to the girls state tournament. They might have even been a little smaller.
Once again no atmosphere, kind of dull but the games were great to watch.
One thing that was discussed about five years ago was having high school sports on Sundays for hockey as to the availability of ice compared to other sports. Wouldn't it have been nice if yesterday there were no boy's high school games played and all of them moved to Sunday.
That is another reason that the boys tournament draws so well is the fact that all of the girls high school players can go watch the boys but many boys have no chance to watch the girls as they are playing their own game.
There were 31 boys section games played yesterday with probably about 31,000 people watching those games (1,000 per game). Including the players that played in those games, I bet a few thousand of those would have traveled over to the Ex to watch the championship game.
DHMN wrote:
According to the MSHSL.ORG box scores, the "A" early session attendance was 1828, and the evening session 1949.
AA attendance today (Thursday) 3396 for the early session and no numbers on the evening session box scores.
This Tournament really should go back to Ridder. I see the College Championship the 2010 Frozen Four has been awarded to Ridder. Capacity is 3400 but man would that be electric atmosphere - not sure where you move consolations to? I think the only thing you lose is the big board with replay.
I disrespectfully disagree. Our team has played both venues and they are both quality facilities, but what you lose besides the cool, big board is the experience of playing in the Excel for the girls. Win or lose, the excitement of being in the Wild's locker room or skating on the same huge sheet of ice is an irreplaceable feeling for them. How wonderful is it for them to watch the pro's play and say "I played there!" Afterall, the experience is theirs, not ours. We just get to enjoy their ride. The hot mini-donuts are pretty good too.
As a fan, I am all for being in a banged out building with some atmosphere. However, I recently talked with a goalie of a local team here in the Boston area who says her team is driven to win so they can play at Boston Garden on the same ice as the Bruins. (first time for the girls) When I noted that there would be a small crowd with no "atmosphere" unlike the packed house at Harvard's Bright Hockey Center she replied, "Who cares, you are so focused on the game that you rarely, if ever, hear the crowd."
After the conversation I realized that for the kids, playing at the Garden, or for those in Minnesota at the Excel, it may well be a once and a life time experience and ultimately what is the biggest kick for them is what the tournaments should stick with.
Mr Hockey wrote:Hey Pond make sure to put in the survey how it felt to see all of the empty seats. That would be a bummer for them and they probably would frown. Granted the locker rooms are great and the score board is cool and it is something that they can tell their children someday but would it be bad if someday they told their children "I played on the same rink as Natalie Darwitz and Chrissy Wendell" at Ridder Arena. The two biggest names in the history of the sport at the high school level.
How about having the girls play the first two rounds at Ridder and the Championship games at the Ex? The anticipation alone might bring the crowd level up to about 5,000 for the championship game with 2,000 or so for the first two rounds at Ridder.
Also Pond why aren't you mad like I am that the Quarterfinal games are not on TV. I would have liked to see Lorence and MacDonald from Irondale. They put the boy's quarterfinals on the tube so why not the girls? That does bug me and they should change it. I believe all fans would like to see the quarterfinal games. All of these girls do get the chance to go to the Ex but no one gets to see them on TV if they lose on Wednesday or Thursday.
I can't debate you on how many games you've been at and to how many I've been at. I don't have any kids left in high school and they started playing when they were pre-schoolers and I still have a college player, so I've lost count. You sound like you are a supporter of girls' & womens' hockey and I apologize for my earlier insult. I thought maybe you were a young male with an attitude after reading your post.
I obviously don't have a vested interest in the tournament staying at the X, but I do know that our team played there five times and it never lost its excitement or prestige for any of them.
I do find it frustrating that not all the games are televised. For me, I would have loved to see Fergus play the Consolation game; but as Get Some pointed out, and I'm sure you know, it is a business decision by a For Profit Business. Although, the crummy programming they have on while the girls are playing could have easily been replaced...
Mr Hockey wrote:
One thing that was discussed about five years ago was having high school sports on Sundays for hockey as to the availability of ice compared to other sports. Wouldn't it have been nice if yesterday there were no boy's high school games played and all of them moved to Sunday.
No it wouldn't! HS sports are one of the few activities left that give a set day off. There already are more than enough "7 days a week" activities. Families need that scheduling break.
I guess Pond that they feel like more people would rather watch and sponsor Hogans Heroes. I guess boys get the shaft also as more people go to the boys state wrestling tournament than the boys basketball and the girls basketball tournament but next week it will not be televised.
I think playing at the x is something girls through out the state dream of doing. they obviously dream of the stands being full but playing at the x is an honor. i think all the games should be at the ridder besides the championship games. the girls work hard all season to get to state they deserve the royal treatment! On the other hand they deserve nothing less than the boys! lol what do i know. main point they deserve royal treatment at the x or at the ridder!
Also Pond why aren't you mad like I am that the Quarterfinal games are not on TV. I would have liked to see Lorence and MacDonald from Irondale. They put the boy's quarterfinals on the tube so why not the girls? That does bug me and they should change it. I believe all fans would like to see the quarterfinal games. All of these girls do get the chance to go to the Ex but no one gets to see them on TV if they lose on Wednesday or Thursday.
The reason is simple: economics. They are not drawing ratings as the boys are on the tube. And no tv station should be forced to televise anything. I would guess it's a blessing they have as much on as they do to this point.
That is another reason that the boys tournament draws so well is the fact that all of the girls high school players can go watch the boys but many boys have no chance to watch the girls as they are playing their own game.
It probably has far more to do with each gender's nature.
The boys games generate money which is why the quarterfinal games are on tv.
Nostalgic Nerd wrote:Also Pond why aren't you mad like I am that the Quarterfinal games are not on TV. I would have liked to see Lorence and MacDonald from Irondale. They put the boy's quarterfinals on the tube so why not the girls? That does bug me and they should change it. I believe all fans would like to see the quarterfinal games. All of these girls do get the chance to go to the Ex but no one gets to see them on TV if they lose on Wednesday or Thursday.
The reason is simple: economics. They are not drawing ratings as the boys are on the tube. And no tv station should be forced to televise anything. I would guess it's a blessing they have as much on as they do to this point.
That is another reason that the boys tournament draws so well is the fact that all of the girls high school players can go watch the boys but many boys have no chance to watch the girls as they are playing their own game.
It probably has far more to do with each gender's nature.
The boys games generate money which is why the quarterfinal games are on tv.
Thank you.
Isnt it funny that we had to have a lawsuit to have the game played at the X because of (equality) But they cannot get the Quarter finals or Consolation games on TV. when the boys games are televised. I would rather have them at the Ridder and All televised, I would think the being on TV for the girls would be just as fun if not more so than playing at an empty X.
hockeya1a wrote:Isnt it funny that we had to have a lawsuit to have the game played at the X because of (equality) But they cannot get the Quarter finals or Consolation games on TV. when the boys games are televised. I would rather have them at the Ridder and All televised, I would think the being on TV for the girls would be just as fun if not more so than playing at an empty X.
Ridder is great as long as you can find somewhere to sit if they move it. When SSP played there you had to get there about two hours early to get a good center ice seat, then battle off everyone who wanted to try and squeeze in when you wnet to get a snack. Why not Mariucci? Have the whole thing on one site. Heck make a women's hockey festival out of it have the gophers playoff game at Ridder during the day on Saturday in between Consolation and championship rounds somehow. It belongs at the U though. Maybe sell a few select reserved seats for us folks who always go every year to purchase ahead of time so we don't have to fight the student sections. The smaller atmosphere was great there though.
hockeya1a wrote:Isnt it funny that we had to have a lawsuit to have the game played at the X because of (equality) But they cannot get the Quarter finals or Consolation games on TV. when the boys games are televised. I would rather have them at the Ridder and All televised, I would think the being on TV for the girls would be just as fun if not more so than playing at an empty X.
I agree if we had a choice I would much rather have the tournament at Ridder and the quarterfinal games televised. But as pointed out by others here, these are two different issues, one legal and one financial. Without the dumb lawsuit the tourney would probably still be at Ridder, but even if this turned out to be the case it's still doubtful IMO that you would be seeing the quarterfinals being televised. I don't know the financials but you have to assume it's more profitable for Channel 45 to show their old re-runs (already paid for, no production costs) than paying for their whole production crew for another two whole days. Broadcasting 8 more games on top of the 6 they're doing now would more than double their costs, and it's questionable they could sell enough additional advertising to cover what it would cost (no doubt they've already considered this and have reached this conclusion).
Anyway I'm a big supporter of moving it back to Ridder - make it a tough ticket to get which would create a lot more buzz and interest in the broader hockey community. Unfortunately I don't know if the MSHSL even has this option with the threat of another lawsuit still out there? So right now we appear "stuck" with what we have.
P.S. I agree with others that Mariucci would not be a good option. Still too many empty seats and the Olympic sheet would appear to slow the game down too much.
couldn't agree more. make it a hard ticket. supply and demand. if ridder holds 3500 and two big schools could draw 4000 they'll just have to turn some away. last year i was running late for the AA boys semi's and they were turning hundreds away right up to gametime. luckily i had my tickets so i didn't have to pay the $100 scalper fee.
there's nothing better than great atmosphere to go with great play and they feed off each other.
one example if i may. yesterday my bantams lost our district championship in a one goal heartbreaker and i was curious after the game getting into the lockerroom to see how they would react. first thing they said was how cool it was to play in front of a standing room only crowd. and they'll remember that forever.
Just a side note. MN Hockey schedules the districts and regions around the boys tourny. I was at the girls tourny all weekend but had to coach a 12 U team in districts in Brainerd on sat.. They also had a 10U tourny going on with 10 U teams from both Edina and Cloquet. Something to think about for next year with MN hockey if the girls youth teams could have that weekend off to attend the State Tourament.