Class A- who really is the best?

Discussion of Minnesota Girls High School Hockey

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recentalum
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Class A- who really is the best?

Post by recentalum » Mon Dec 09, 2013 12:32 pm

Currently, Red Wing is ranked #1? Who agrees with this? They have been a strong state tournament team the last 5 years but are they really the best? Who else would be considered the best?

Nevertoomuchhockey
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Post by Nevertoomuchhockey » Mon Dec 09, 2013 12:53 pm

Interesting debate topic.

I haven't seen TRF play, although their record speaks for itself. I'd like to see their numbers against some of the better metro A teams.
IMHO EGF is #1 right now. And though I hate to say it, Achiever is right there too.
Red Wing has pulled off some keys wins in spite of being definitively out shot. But it's early. They have great talent but I'd put them at 3, at most.

Who else? I think Blake is ranked too high. Riding on last years success. I think Warroad and SPU are too low. Both coming on strong with great upperclassman and strong freshman. Breck is a big question mark. Don't think the coach is getting the play her team is capable of. I expect that to correct as season goes on.

Who else?

Marty
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Post by Marty » Mon Dec 09, 2013 2:24 pm

The newcomer to A. That would be AA.

If SSP did not fall to Park, everyone would be singing their song too ?

It remains really early. Some teams fill their early schedule with top teams, while others look to pad their Win column.

Nevertoomuchhockey
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Post by Nevertoomuchhockey » Mon Dec 09, 2013 3:12 pm

If SSP did not fall to Park, everyone would be singing their song too?

Nope.

JohnnyBuck
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Post by JohnnyBuck » Mon Dec 09, 2013 7:56 pm

Seen TRF's. They are balanced with good goaltending. They will probably be even better next year as they are young. EGF is the best in that section IMO. State champs may come out of there. Warroad is Warroad, although not as deep as last year. Over Achiever will be tough to beat. Four hours of practice a day can do wonders to your "program". Red Wing is legit. New Ulm............they will make it again this year, but don't see them getting past the opening game. Hibbing is a dark horse. Talented young skaters in a weak section.

AAA Dad
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Post by AAA Dad » Tue Dec 10, 2013 8:31 am

JohnnyBuck wrote: Over Achiever will be tough to beat. Four hours of practice a day can do wonders to your "program".
Johnny

Achiever hockey players on Varsity or JV are limited to 2 hours max ice per day just like all teams during the season per MSHSL guidelines. Obviously they will skate little on game days. Out of season they can have as much ice as they want just like any other player for any other school. In the "off season" Achiever skates 3 hours per school day. For many athletes that could be a negative and result in burnout. It appears to be a very committed yet young group at Achiever. Anything can happen in single elimination Sections and State as we all know but I do like Achiever's chances to go far.

D6 Girls Fan
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Post by D6 Girls Fan » Tue Dec 10, 2013 8:53 am

I can only imagine that Achiever Academy will be the #1 irritating topic on this board for the near future. 90% of the people will think it's a terrible precedent and borderline abuse by nutty hockey parents, and super type-A AA parents will rabidly defend their choice to send their kids there.

And there won't be a lot of peace. The team is good enough to not only compete, but win. And it's a completely predictable outcome. Buckle up, kids, it's gonna be a bumpy ride.

AAA Dad
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Post by AAA Dad » Tue Dec 10, 2013 9:23 am

D6 Girls Fan wrote:I can only imagine that Achiever Academy will be the #1 irritating topic on this board for the near future. 90% of the people will think it's a terrible precedent and borderline abuse by nutty hockey parents, and super type-A AA parents will rabidly defend their choice to send their kids there.

And there won't be a lot of peace. The team is good enough to not only compete, but win. And it's a completely predictable outcome. Buckle up, kids, it's gonna be a bumpy ride.


PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2013 2:33 pm
Earlier Quote from D6 Girls fan on Achiever

"I don't think they'll challenge anyone for two-three years at least. I have heard from a couple parents who are either on the team or close to joining.

Good players, but young. And on the education side, there's at least one straight A kid who trusts the program enough to go. "



D6
Don't get mad because you are not an expert prognosticator and had to change your tune!! ......Also there are many "Straight A students sent to Achiever by their "abusive", "nutty" (as you say) parents. Peace!




D6 Girls Fan
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Post by D6 Girls Fan » Tue Dec 10, 2013 10:24 am

AAA Dad wrote: D6
Don't get mad because you are not an expert prognosticator and had to change your tune!! ......Also there are many "Straight A students sent to Achiever by their "abusive", "nutty" (as you say) parents. Peace!



You misinterpret my interest. I'm more interested in the back and forth here on the board than I am in the actual AA program. I do think that the team is doing well. My use of the words abusive and nutty was meant more to mock how others view AA, not me. I frankly don't care where people send their daughters to HS. Your family is your business. I find the discussion very amusing. What I think of the program is pretty irrelevant.

I do like CP, he was kind to my daughter a few years back.

AAA Dad
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Post by AAA Dad » Tue Dec 10, 2013 10:49 am

There are some good Class A head to head matchups tonight.

SPU vs Blake and Warroad vs TRF could be interesting.

I would not be surprised if NP gives RW a good game tonight as well!

Hopefully someone from the Northland can update us on Warroad vs TRF since the Hub is usually way late on those games.

Nevertoomuchhockey
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Post by Nevertoomuchhockey » Tue Dec 10, 2013 11:13 am

Any online?

State Champ 97
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Post by State Champ 97 » Tue Dec 10, 2013 11:39 am

I say TRF beats Warroad by two.

JohnnyBuck
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Post by JohnnyBuck » Tue Dec 10, 2013 11:54 am

[ can only imagine that Achiever Academy will be the #1 irritating topic on this board for the near future. 90% of the people will think it's a terrible precedent and borderline abuse by nutty hockey parents, and super type-A AA parents will rabidly defend their choice to send their kids there]

I think the debate over "nutty hockey parents" is one debate that will never end. What I do see as the future of Minnesota hockey is more Achiever type schools. I think the good private schools are already paving the road for it. As a parent of a real good hockey player in a small community or on a bad hockey team, it only makes sense to send him/her to one of these schools. It is just hard for many of the old Minnesota hockey purists to accept this change. [/quote]

hockeywild7
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Post by hockeywild7 » Tue Dec 10, 2013 12:23 pm

It costs $11,500/year to attend achiever academy. As they get more students enrolling and competition within the school picks up for starting spots on teams, I wonder what will happen with enrollment? Who will send their kid to a school for that amount of money to not play??

Nevertoomuchhockey
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It's the same old...

Post by Nevertoomuchhockey » Tue Dec 10, 2013 1:02 pm

Pay now or pay later argument.
My child didn't enroll because it wasn't the kind of academic and social school best suited for us. Our choice, and I respect the different choice others took. But there is no argument that CP has as many or more ins and avenues to college hockey as any coach out there.
Private schools can cost a lot more than AA, but their college placement records are proven in many cases both academic and hockey scholarships. I think the true testament of the viability of this model will be where the grads go to college and whether they are playing D1 or 3 hockey. High school wins may or may not translate to post- secondary. In 2-4 years I expect this kind of program to either dramatically increase or go away.
I'd like to believe my son and daughter will play D1, but the numbers don't lie. As parents we can't put all our eggs in the hockey basket. If AA gets their players into good schools, with or without hockey, they can't be so easily dismissed as being only about hockey. No history there like older schools, both public and private.
CP is a smart guy. I only know a few kids on this team. I don't know the GPAs or grades for any. But I have to believe he filled his team with girls who will be successful both ways.

sinbin
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Post by sinbin » Tue Dec 10, 2013 2:10 pm

Using the old fruit metaphor, private schools get to select the choicest and ripest fruit for their schools, while public schools are forced to take the entire bushel basket, regardless of condition. A fair number of public schools compare very favorably, if not superior, to the privates in terms of athletic and academic post-secondary opportunities. Agreed, though, that certain individuals and institutions, whether high school or college, have legacies and connections that can benefit their attendees.

Nevertoomuchhockey
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Post by Nevertoomuchhockey » Tue Dec 10, 2013 2:22 pm

Completely agree that public high schools can and do put kids into best colleges and hockey programs. My point was that $11,500 is on the low end of private tuitions, and that AA and programs like it will eventually attract kids not only from public schools but also families that would have otherwise gone private if they can build the foundation of graduating top student athletes to top programs.
I fully believe almost any kid from any high school can go to any college. Completely situational.

Maverick2000
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Post by Maverick2000 » Tue Dec 10, 2013 2:58 pm

I love to still pull for the schools like Red Wing where they have two D1 players and top 5 MN Hockey Candiadtes(Paige Haley,gophers, and Rose Alleva,Princeton,) the last couple years and this year D1 kids Schammel and Stygora (MSU) and next year the youngest haley will choose her D1 school of choice. The great thing I love about this is these kids grew up,played youth hockey at the U12B level, stayed in small town Red Wing, and still made it to the Big leagues. This shows you do not need to move nor pay $11,000.00 to be seen by the top D1 Schools.......

sinbin
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Post by sinbin » Tue Dec 10, 2013 5:53 pm

So why do you think the huge leap from U12B to D1? That's quite a chasm for one player, much less a group of them.

recentalum
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Post by recentalum » Tue Dec 10, 2013 7:51 pm

sinbin wrote:So why do you think the huge leap from U12B to D1? That's quite a chasm for one player, much less a group of them.
A number of things.

They have 6 years on experience on varsity. Looking at all the players in the last 3 or 4 years and the next 4 classes to come, there is easily 10+ kids who did or will play D1 or D3 hockey. This is just a small town who has a great coach who really knows how to coach and develop these young players.

Also the number of hours that these girls give in the off season is incredible. They are constantly at the rink shooting pucks and stick handling and the coach really encourages them to play on teams in the summer.

MNHockeyFan
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Post by MNHockeyFan » Tue Dec 10, 2013 11:27 pm

State Champ 97 wrote:I say TRF beats Warroad by two.
Good call! :)

MNHockeyFan
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Post by MNHockeyFan » Tue Dec 10, 2013 11:36 pm

AAA Dad wrote:There are some good Class A head to head matchups tonight.

SPU vs Blake and Warroad vs TRF could be interesting.
Blake ended up smoking SPU 10-0! Didn't see that one coming...The Warroad/TRF game (2-4) must have been a good one. It was tied well into the 3rd period before Thief River scored the last two.
AAA Dad wrote:I would not be surprised if NP gives RW a good game tonight as well!
They did through two periods, until RW scored three in the 3rd to win 4-0.

Roy01
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Post by Roy01 » Wed Dec 11, 2013 2:55 am

recentalum wrote:This is just a small town who has a great coach who really knows how to coach and develop these young players.
I am not sure how much credit I would put toward Scott Haley for the development and success of the girls program in Red Wing.

The revitalization of the program happened primarily with the change of section. I believe their former section had teams such as Farmington, Benilde, Breck, and included South St. Paul during their most successful years as a program. When the high school league altered the sections, success (the state tournament) came.

As for the players, Rose Alleva is, more or less, a product of the Red Wing boys program, not the girls. She had participated through Peewees and then stepped into the high school level of play.

Paige had also started in boys hockey. She had the benefit of being coached by her father through youth and high school. For her, I would say development is more toward Scott's doing, but Rose Alleva I would not.

A better piece of the girls team in recent years has been goaltending. Corcoran was a transfer from Farmington. Prior to her taking net, it was managed by Lisa Nibbe (whom I believe is now an assistant under Scott Haley). Lisa received instruction from the boys goalie coach, Bob Rajanen, along with a plethora of former goalies within the boy's program. I would attribute her success toward their efforts.

I, personally, find it rather curious that Nibbe is an assistant coach for Scott Haley being as, while she was a player under his tenure, she was very vocal in her disapproval of Scott.

The Red Wing girls program has had success in recent years and no one could or should take that away from them, but to say it is the doing of Scott Haley is an oversight.

Bighead
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Post by Bighead » Wed Dec 11, 2013 8:30 am

Roy01...You certainly are a Classy individual at 2am! What was your contribution to the program? Maybe Nibbe matured...something you might consider!

Roy01
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Post by Roy01 » Wed Dec 11, 2013 9:23 am

Bighead wrote:Roy01...You certainly are a Classy individual at 2am! What was your contribution to the program? Maybe Nibbe matured...something you might consider!
My contributions include donations and coaching players within the program.

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