Achiever Academy ineligible girl players?

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faceisoff
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Achiever Academy ineligible girl players?

Post by faceisoff » Mon Feb 10, 2014 6:28 pm

Does anyone know about the rumors of AA having ineligible players and something about this information going to the High School League?

bsterhockey
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Post by bsterhockey » Mon Feb 10, 2014 6:46 pm

I heard they have 7-9 ineligible players and it's in the league's hands now. Too bad for all. One of the ineligible players was tweeting away about her ineligibility for all to see- I guess someone finally looked into it.

D6 Girls Fan
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Post by D6 Girls Fan » Mon Feb 10, 2014 8:21 pm

Good ol' AA, and it's ardent detractors and supporters. Always keeping this board interesting.

Marty
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Post by Marty » Mon Feb 10, 2014 9:54 pm

Nice first post. Can we assume the first two posts on this thread are from parents, player or even a coach of another Section 4A quarter final team?

Shame on the MN HS league if this had not been addressed last November when the team roster was first posted. Unlike most teams - this school team was newly added and should have been looked over way back then. MSHSL has had three full months!

AMERICAN
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Post by AMERICAN » Mon Feb 10, 2014 9:58 pm

If true this is serious. The facts can easily be confirmed true or false with very little investigation. I don't know of many AD's that would allow ineligible players since it would jeopardize a teams entire season such as it did in the Prairie Seeds Academy Case. Doesn't seem like this has anything to do with "supporters or detractors" of AA but rather whether the Transfer Rule has been violated.

This will come down to the facts when applying them to Bylaw 111.00 Transfer and Residence Rule. The League will likely make a decision using this analysis. First, Bylaw 111 Policy Procedures For Determining Transfer Student Eligibility states " all Transfer Students are deemed presumptively ineligible for varsity athletics unless they meet one of the exceptions listed in Bylaw 111. The most common exception is that of change of residence. Bylaw 111 defines Change of Residence from one public school attendance area to another public school attendance area. This means that the entire family must pull up stakes from one public school district and move to another public school district to be eligible at the new school. The problem is that the League must rely on self reporting by the new or receiving school. The League relies on the AD of the receiving school to report an ineligible player and submit the electronic transfer form to the League office for review. See Bylaw 111 Policy Procedures For Determining Transfer Students Eligibility 3. A.

Since the League's rule is clear and the League, based on it's recent history of being sued over Transfer Eligibility issues, seems to have taken the position that it will defend it's transfer rules all the way to Federal Court. The question for the League is to figure out the facts. With very little questioning the League will be able to quickly confirm or reject the presumption of ineligibly with AA players.

The League will hand out a decision soon, assuming it is conducting one, since it's playoff time and lots of teams could be affected if AA was deemed to have been playing with ineligible players. In the Prairie Seed Academy case even though Prairie Seed was banned from the state soccer tournament for playing an ineligible players, the section runner up, Totino Grace was not given the state tournament birth either.

AMERICAN
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Post by AMERICAN » Mon Feb 10, 2014 10:14 pm

Marty, you are correct. The way the League operates however, is that it relies on the self reporting by the receiving or in this case, AA's AD. If a roster was submitted by AA saying that all their players were eligible then I believe the League takes their word for it. I agree with you that doesn't seem right but that's the way the League operates. Seems like the rule punishes the honest schools and does nothing to the schools that want to break the rules.

MNHockeyFan
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Post by MNHockeyFan » Mon Feb 10, 2014 10:55 pm

AMERICAN wrote:Marty, you are correct. The way the League operates however, is that it relies on the self reporting by the receiving or in this case, AA's AD. If a roster was submitted by AA saying that all their players were eligible then I believe the League takes their word for it. I agree with you that doesn't seem right but that's the way the League operates.


This is my understanding as well. The League simply doesn't have the manpower to check the eligibility of all the varsity athletes in all the different sports. And each school is in a much better position to determine the eligibility of their own students athletes.
AMERICAN wrote:Seems like the rule punishes the honest schools and does nothing to the schools that want to break the rules.
I have to believe that 99% of the AD's out there submit their rosters in good faith and have no intention of trying to cheat the system. Their own credibility, not to mention their jobs, are on the line and these considerations outweigh any desire for one of their teams to have a slightly better season.

Also I think it's very important to understand that so far there is no proof whatsoever that Achiever Academy is guilty of any wrongdoing....let's all give them the benefit of the doubt until something official comes out.

DubCHAGuy
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Post by DubCHAGuy » Mon Feb 10, 2014 11:01 pm

Looks like it is 2 players in question. And as MNHockeyFan said, no proof of guilt at this time.

http://www.mngirlshockeyhub.com/news_ar ... how/348591

MN_Bowhunter
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Post by MN_Bowhunter » Mon Feb 10, 2014 11:41 pm

Qui cum canibus concumbunt cum pulicibus surgent.

Matnorthfan
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AA girls

Post by Matnorthfan » Mon Feb 10, 2014 11:55 pm

If I am correct, transferring student's families are required to move into the new public school attendance area. "Move the family" officially known as a "change of occupancy by the parents"- student can't live with another family, no renting an apartment while the rest of the family stays back at the ole residence and siblings attend the old school in former public school attendance area. Easy to check by the MSHSL if prompted ( and sounds like they've "been prompted". )
Using a resource constraint reason not to check into this seems suspect. If the AD's job depends on an accurate and true assessment, hopefully that happens. It appears that others may have already started the due diligence. If they are eligible, great. If any the above is happening, then not so much. Nothing against the concept of AA, but those eligibility rules apply. Period. House sold? Taxes filed at what residence. Where do the players go home to every day? Simple for just about anyone to verify the honesty and accuracy-public records and rosters. Let's hope people do the right thing here if needed.

Nevertoomuchhockey
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Post by Nevertoomuchhockey » Tue Feb 11, 2014 5:36 am

I don't think the transfer rule is relevant. AA is a brand new team this year. Considering the four locations they started the season with, it would be hard to argue anyone wasn't geographically eligible. What frustrates me about this issue is that there is no way it should be being addressed for the first time going into play-offs. Unless AA outright lied and someone blew the whistle in the LAST week of the season, the examination of the roster and eligibility questions were the responsibility of the MSHL waaayyyy back when they were accepted into the league. Considering the microscope this team has been under and the scrutiny that's been placed on this model (here and everywhere else) I am upset this is an issue now. I don't have a kid who goes to or plays against AA, but I'm indignant on behalf of girls hockey that either 1) AA has been cheating all season and MSHL never caught on or 2) playoff time is here and AA is a threat to take the section so allegations of cheating are coming up mid - Feb for a roster that's been in place all season.

As for the player tweeting about her ineligibity? Please. Bring the proof and quote that with your post. Despite what some have said about the quality of academics at AA, do you really think any of those girls are that stupid? And lets give a little credit where it's due to CP. He had to know the scrutiny they'd be under. I really question everything about this from the thread to the Hub article to the tweets to the comments.

Quote from the article - they are "not really selling hockey" and want to be perceived as more academically focused than hockey intensive? C'mon AA. You found your niche and have been successful in doing so. Saying stuff like this takes away from your credibility.

AMERICAN
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Post by AMERICAN » Tue Feb 11, 2014 7:55 am

Nevertoomuch- You are correct that this should have been looked into before now but the problem is that the League takes the information it gets from the AD at schools at face value. The AD simply certifies a roster as being eligible and the League assumes they are eligible. The school then tells the public that they are eligible and everyone assumes they are eligible because everyone knows a roster must be sent to the League. The public assumes that the League conducts an investigation regarding the eligibility of the roster. The League will not conduct an investigation due to lack of resources. All the trust in the process rests with the school, coach and AD to insure eligibility.

You are incorrect in stating that the Transfer Rule does not apply. It has to apply equally to all and the rule specifically states to overcome the presumption of ineligibility one must show that the entire family packed up the bags and moved the entire family from school district A to school district B.

The last part of your post regarding credibility is spot on. Factually confirming these allegations against AA is not difficult. I sense the fact finders have figured it out by now.

MNHockeyFan
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Post by MNHockeyFan » Tue Feb 11, 2014 8:03 am

Nevertoomuchhockey wrote:...Unless AA outright lied and someone blew the whistle in the LAST week of the season, the examination of the roster and eligibility questions were the responsibility of the MSHL waaayyyy back when they were accepted into the league.
While I agree that the timing of this coming up as an issue at this stage of the season may appear to be suspicious, I don't agree with your point above. It wasn't the responsibility of the MSHSL to ascertain eligibility of all the players; that burden falls on individual schools including this one. Only when there is a credible allegation of an ineligibility situation - or if a member school self-reports such a situation - would the MSHSL get involved...which is precisely what's going on now.

Again, there has been no determination that AA has in fact been in violation of any rule, and my opinion is that we should just let the investigation run its course. I would add though that with the team scheduled to play in the section semifinal tonight and with the final scheduled for Thursday, it would be in everybody's best interest that the MSHSL complete its investigation ASAP - and I'm sure they recognize this.

Nevertoomuchhockey
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Post by Nevertoomuchhockey » Tue Feb 11, 2014 8:15 am

AMERICAN pms to you, thanks

Tenoverpar
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f

Post by Tenoverpar » Tue Feb 11, 2014 8:16 am

The truth is that AA is not an "Elite Prep School" that they claim to be, it's a Cowboy wild wild west organization and they have ineligible players because they don't have a true Athletic/Activities Director who knows the rules. They went out and found families willing to drop the dime on the cost of the dream and here they are...I'm pretty sure there is enough bad PR on AA at this point that anyone even considering that place is a fool.

Nevertoomuchhockey
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Post by Nevertoomuchhockey » Tue Feb 11, 2014 8:23 am

Agree, in theory.
But getting to the state tourney quiets a lot of negativity.

pepperpot
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Post by pepperpot » Tue Feb 11, 2014 8:25 am

Nevertoomuchhockey wrote:I don't think the transfer rule is relevant.
and do you really think any of those girls are that stupid?
quote]
Always the CP apologist, huh Never? That smell you are complaining about is the brown on your nose. Your statements once again show how ignorant you are. Of course the transfer rules are "relevant". It's the rule, despite how much you hope it isn't. And regarding the girls tweeting about skirting the rules, even I am astounded by your absolute stupidity. Of course girls tweet stupid things, just like you write stupid things on blogs and parents make stupid decisions on where they send their kids for "education". Children send nudies of themselves, they get drunk at parties and they swear like sailors in the lockerroom. Not all, but some. IF AA is found guilty, (And it wouldn't surprise me considering who was and is running it) they will be dealt with accordingly. Maybe then the parents will think twice about being suckered into wasting their kids HS education on a school that was created to take their money under the assumption they will become the worlds best female hockey players. Duh. It was just a matter of time. :roll:

Marty
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Post by Marty » Tue Feb 11, 2014 8:41 am

MSHSL should have had this solved by / before Sections. How fair was this to Henry Sibley? There is no turning back to teams they beat now - season over

If MSHSL kills AA season soon, then SP United should play Mahtomedi and SSP gets the bye tonight. Why would a 5th seed get a bye when higher seeds are still playing through the Section ?

So AA wins Section 4 and then they are banned from state early next week. No Section 4A representation at state ?

Marty
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Post by Marty » Tue Feb 11, 2014 8:46 am

AA must feel comfortable that they are legit and appear to be "all in" with the two players.

They could have held the two out on Saturday to at least keep the Section play-off run alive if they would eventually be found ineligible.

Good lawyers are worth their weight in gold.

DubCHAGuy
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Post by DubCHAGuy » Tue Feb 11, 2014 8:47 am

Nevertoomuchhockey wrote:Agree, in theory.
But getting to the state tourney quiets a lot of negativity.
I would say the opposite is true. The AA girls get scrutiny from outsiders because they have had immediate success. The AA boys haven't had as much scrutiny, because they aren't very good. On the ice, the girls will probably be favorites the rest of the way. That definitely won't quiet any negativity.

As for the situation, like others have said the MSHSL doesn't go around investigating rosters. That would be ridiculous. They govern almost 50 activities and around 500 high schools. If it is just a potential residency issue that has been brought to their attention, hopefully they can figure it out quickly.

Nevertoomuchhockey
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Post by Nevertoomuchhockey » Tue Feb 11, 2014 9:19 am

I meant the negativity regarding the future of the school and their ability to bring in new players.

And I realize MSHL can't verify every kid on every roster. My point was that considering the controversy around this new school/format since day 1, you'd think they maybe would have made an exception here.

And regarding the "relevancy" of the transfer rule, I was asking the question for two reasons. 1)this is a new program, and 2) 4 - now 2 - locations give them a wider geographical pull.
Last edited by Nevertoomuchhockey on Tue Feb 11, 2014 9:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

Nevertoomuchhockey
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Post by Nevertoomuchhockey » Tue Feb 11, 2014 9:24 am

pepperpot wrote:
Nevertoomuchhockey wrote:I don't think the transfer rule is relevant.
and do you really think any of those girls are that stupid?
quote]
Always the CP apologist, huh Never? That smell you are complaining about is the brown on your nose. Your statements once again show how ignorant you are. Of course the transfer rules are "relevant". It's the rule, despite how much you hope it isn't. And regarding the girls tweeting about skirting the rules, even I am astounded by your absolute stupidity. Of course girls tweet stupid things, just like you write stupid things on blogs and parents make stupid decisions on where they send their kids for "education". Children send nudies of themselves, they get drunk at parties and they swear like sailors in the lockerroom. Not all, but some. IF AA is found guilty, (And it wouldn't surprise me considering who was and is running it) they will be dealt with accordingly. Maybe then the parents will think twice about being suckered into wasting their kids HS education on a school that was created to take their money under the assumption they will become the worlds best female hockey players. Duh. It was just a matter of time. :roll:
If you choose to personally attack me every time I post, I would encourage you to pay attention to what I write. Better yet, keep my name out yo mouf.

blackshadow
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Transfer rule is upheld by US District Court

Post by blackshadow » Tue Feb 11, 2014 9:28 am

Nevertoomuchhockey wrote:I don't think the transfer rule is relevant.

Perhaps this will shed some light on how relevant the transfer rule is since Judge David Doty, US District Court Judge on January 14, 2013 denied a motion for preliminary injunction for the planitiff, a boy going to AA, to be placed on the varsity roster and ruled on behalf of the Defendants, MSHSL.

http://docs.justia.com/cases/federal/di ... 1358254819

In summary, you can't go to a school after ninth grade unless you have moved your entire family to a new area of residence. It also specifically addresses that if you "Move From Out of State", the student must move at the same time as the family establishes new residence in a Minnesota Public school district attendance area.

In defense of the families, there should be some due process. But this would easily be solved by asking each family in tenth grade and above: What was your family residence address last year and what is your new address this year after starting school at AA? If they are not in the same school district, they are in compliance with the Transfer Rule.

Sam David
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Re: Transfer rule is upheld by US District Court

Post by Sam David » Tue Feb 11, 2014 9:38 am

blackshadow wrote:
Nevertoomuchhockey wrote:I don't think the transfer rule is relevant.

Perhaps this will shed some light on how relevant the transfer rule is since Judge David Doty, US District Court Judge on January 14, 2013 denied a motion for preliminary injunction for the planitiff, a boy going to AA, to be placed on the varsity roster and ruled on behalf of the Defendants, MSHSL.

http://docs.justia.com/cases/federal/di ... 1358254819

In summary, you can't go to a school after ninth grade unless you have moved your entire family to a new area of residence. It also specifically addresses that if you "Move From Out of State", the student must move at the same time as the family establishes new residence in a Minnesota Public school district attendance area.

In defense of the families, there should be some due process. But this would easily be solved by asking each family in tenth grade and above: What was your family residence address last year and what is your new address this year after starting school at AA? If they are not in the same school district, they are in compliance with the Transfer Rule.
Also, it doesn't matter where they live NOW/today. The question is, where they lived the day they showed up to school (or maybe played a fall sport such as soccer) "OR" more likely (clarity sought), where they lived at the start of the hockey (winter sport season). I'm certain they can live where ever they want now but where did the FAMILY live and establish residency then.

I could expound on the Tax status of the original home? Primary or Secondary? Again, it doesn't matter what it is now....what was it at that time?

JohnnyBuck
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Post by JohnnyBuck » Tue Feb 11, 2014 10:51 am

In summary, you can't go to a school after ninth grade unless you have moved your entire family to a new area of residence. It also specifically addresses that if you "Move From Out of State", the student must move at the same time as the family establishes new residence in a Minnesota Public school district attendance area.

Blackwater, great point. I wonder if this has anything to do with the stud defenseman they brought in from Missouri?

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