Tis the Transfer season...

Discussion of Minnesota Girls High School Hockey

Moderators: Mitch Hawker, east hockey, karl(east)

Post Reply
U10Father
Posts: 120
Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2008 12:09 pm

Tis the Transfer season...

Post by U10Father » Wed Jul 23, 2014 10:27 am

Of course, it all might just be speculation, but early word is that there are some significant transfers this summer. People keep chasing that championship.

D6 Girls Fan
Posts: 171
Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2010 9:03 am

Post by D6 Girls Fan » Wed Jul 23, 2014 11:12 am

I've heard some rumblings just recently myself.

One of you experts, what's the rule - a kid leaves a private, but transfers back to their hometown, is there a waiting period? And does a parent have to move to avoid a waiting period if the transfer is one public school to another?

Froggy Richards
Posts: 624
Joined: Thu Mar 07, 2013 11:15 am

Post by Froggy Richards » Wed Jul 23, 2014 11:48 am

D6 Girls Fan wrote:I've heard some rumblings just recently myself.

One of you experts, what's the rule - a kid leaves a private, but transfers back to their hometown, is there a waiting period? And does a parent have to move to avoid a waiting period if the transfer is one public school to another?
To move from a Private back to your hometown Public you have to show an Economic Hardship or else the kid plays JV for a year.

From one Public to another the "Family" has to move into the new district or else the kid plays JV for a year. One parent moving or renting an Apartment somewhere doesn't cut it unless there is a divorce involved.

This is only if the player has already started 9th grade. If they haven't started 9th grade yet, they are free to enroll and play anywhere.

Keep in mind that it's the Athletic Director's job to verify all of this. The MSHSL doesn't get involved unless someone complains directly to them. And even then the wheels move slowly.

U10Father
Posts: 120
Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2008 12:09 pm

Post by U10Father » Wed Jul 23, 2014 12:53 pm

When do they have to move by? Beginning of school?

Racki2016
Posts: 57
Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2012 8:36 am

Post by Racki2016 » Wed Jul 23, 2014 2:14 pm

spill the beans, lets hear some details.

sinbin
Posts: 898
Joined: Thu Oct 29, 2009 11:12 pm

Post by sinbin » Thu Jul 24, 2014 9:39 am

It seems we have this similar topic each year and, at the end, we can't quite agree on the specific rules. Someone usually cuts/pastes from the MSHSL rulebook, but even then it seems it's not quite crystal clear. Or, at least there is a lot of confusion. I think any move prior to 9th grade is fair game, but then it gets more complicated. No offense to any posters, but it's a complicated subject which only adds to the soap operaic speculation. And each family has their personal story for transfer rationale - job, education, religous beliefs, family issues, etc., but no one ever says the move was for hockey (or weather, for that matter).

D6 Girls Fan
Posts: 171
Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2010 9:03 am

Post by D6 Girls Fan » Thu Jul 24, 2014 1:59 pm

The rumors I heard:

Blue leaves for Green (the family's second move)
Red leaves for Blue after being given the captaincy of Red last spring.

..and a couple more under consideration - with less than a month before school starts.

sinbin
Posts: 898
Joined: Thu Oct 29, 2009 11:12 pm

Post by sinbin » Fri Jul 25, 2014 7:24 am

Interesting transfer rainbow, indeed.

zambonidriver
Posts: 675
Joined: Fri Jan 17, 2014 10:31 am

Transfer season

Post by zambonidriver » Fri Jul 25, 2014 10:49 am

Are these colors close to each other.

sinbin
Posts: 898
Joined: Thu Oct 29, 2009 11:12 pm

Post by sinbin » Fri Jul 25, 2014 12:17 pm

In the rainbow . . . or geographically . . . ?

D6 Girls Fan
Posts: 171
Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2010 9:03 am

Post by D6 Girls Fan » Fri Jul 25, 2014 12:26 pm

They're all close. Geographically, Education-wise, and Hockey-wise.

I'm sure the families involved have a reason for doing it that makes sense to them.

zambonidriver
Posts: 675
Joined: Fri Jan 17, 2014 10:31 am

Post by zambonidriver » Fri Jul 25, 2014 12:29 pm

AA or A?

Nevertoomuchhockey
Posts: 1138
Joined: Thu Oct 03, 2013 2:59 pm

Post by Nevertoomuchhockey » Mon Jul 28, 2014 2:37 pm

Rumor has it that all sophomore and older transfers will have to prove eligibility (with AD)/submit some kind of transfer paperwork before being rostered on a new varsity team? MSHL trying (with as little effort as possible) to end the actual or perceived team jumping and rule skirting?

To say I'm skeptical is an understatement. It seems unlikely the MSHL will add to their administration efforts or expense. Are they prepared to visit alleged divorced hockey parents to verify new address is legit? Seek out the empty apartments leased by disgruntled hockey parents? To say it seems unlikely is an understatement. More likely that coaches and ADs will make sure transfers are on the up and up before the puck drops at all. And if not, the parents on the teams who stand to have their record or reputation affected by their cheating opponent (as well as the bitter parents who would have lost anyway but will report ineligible transfers to protect the "integrity" of the game ;) - I sincerely believe every program will be policing their conference. In season and off.

So this is the Achiever legacy? Which will it be? More ineligible transfers since it's clearly been an issue and practiced for a long time (on a much smaller scale than AA) and we were all just content to live and let live? Or no ineligible transfers since parents and programs are afraid of being caught and those who try it will be scrutinized so closely in house and by every parent and person on this board?

This should be an interesting season.

zambonidriver
Posts: 675
Joined: Fri Jan 17, 2014 10:31 am

solutions to transfer problem

Post by zambonidriver » Tue Jul 29, 2014 7:52 am

The way i see it there are 3 solutions to this so called transfer problem.
1. Just open it up and go back to the way it was in the late 90's and early 00's
2. Stop open enrollment go back to town schools. (I think best option) Also kick the private schools out of MSHSL (never happen) or hold the private schools to the same rules as public with regards to who can enroll.
3. Go to Triple A club system like other states and just let the chips fall where they may.
As a current teacher and a former AD i can tell you this not matter what rules you put in place here will be someone who tries to circumvent the rules. That is the problem. Who is to blame? We as parents, there is not one of us who doesn't want whats best for our kids. The pressure to win is expanding into youth sports as well as high school. You see this with the coaching carrousel around the state. It used to be head coaches were at there schools for generations the days of the Ikola's and Ross's are over because of the pressure to win. Before open enrollment there used to be cycles in HS sport good classes of Athletes followed by weaker classes. You don't see that anymore. You also see kids leaving school early which never used to happen. This is our sports culture.

U10Father
Posts: 120
Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2008 12:09 pm

Post by U10Father » Tue Jul 29, 2014 10:15 am

I think for a team like Edina or Tonka or Eden Prairie or Wayzata or one of the Lakevilles (basically any team with a flourishing and deep feeder system) to accept transfers in is just wrong.

Shows zero loyalty to the kids in your own system, and you don't need to do it. Those programs are very capable of providing enough talent. But I understand that loyalty goes out the window in the current AAA mentality. I would just hope that some coaches would be fine saying, "Hey, great, you're a top kid, but you're going to have to play JV here for a year."

The type of transfers we're talking about are D1 caliber players who will get (or already have) that scholarship whether they stay at their current schools or not. These are not Olympic caliber players. The only difference in their future will be whether they have the medal and the ball cap from winning State. Unless there's some hidden backstory at the current school that we as outsiders don't know about, kids should stay where they are. Practice with your AAA team. Don't turn your high school into that team.

Hansonbrother
Posts: 342
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2008 7:28 pm

Post by Hansonbrother » Wed Jul 30, 2014 9:02 am

U10Father wrote:I think for a team like Edina or Tonka or Eden Prairie or Wayzata or one of the Lakevilles (basically any team with a flourishing and deep feeder system) to accept transfers in is just wrong.

Shows zero loyalty to the kids in your own system, and you don't need to do it. Those programs are very capable of providing enough talent. But I understand that loyalty goes out the window in the current AAA mentality. I would just hope that some coaches would be fine saying, "Hey, great, you're a top kid, but you're going to have to play JV here for a year."

The type of transfers we're talking about are D1 caliber players who will get (or already have) that scholarship whether they stay at their current schools or not. These are not Olympic caliber players. The only difference in their future will be whether they have the medal and the ball cap from winning State. Unless there's some hidden backstory at the current school that we as outsiders don't know about, kids should stay where they are. Practice with your AAA team. Don't turn your high school into that team.
I think the message you are portraying is a good one. I agree with it whole-heartedly. However, the part you are kind of skipping over quickly is the "hidden backstory" in most of the cases. I know of several kids wanting to leave their program because they are bullied or just don't like the kids in their association/high school.
Let's just say these quality players we're talking about, truly are better than most of of the kids in their grade and the grade above them. These players play on many Select teams and are invited to do things that many of their teammates from their schools don't get to do, therefore creating an animosity amongst their classmates. I've heard from many kids that this is what they deal with in their respective associations and that's why they want out. These players are chastized amongst their piers for being better and for working harder toward their goals. These players thrive on the better competition and like to be pushed to their maximum, unlike many of the kids in their association, who are purely in it for the social aspect...which is fine too. When I hear from the parents of these kids as to why they want to leave their association, it's kind of hard to give them a reason to make their kid stay. I know I wouldn't want that for my kids either if they were in that situation.

NotMuchToSay
Posts: 22
Joined: Tue Jul 09, 2013 10:23 am

Post by NotMuchToSay » Wed Jul 30, 2014 1:31 pm

You would allow your daughter to quit her high school team because a select few classmates chastised her and that there is animosity amongst them? If anything, the quality players have animosity towards their less qualified teammates that choose not to play any hockey or train during the summer. If my daughter ever told me she wanted to quit her high school team because of that reason, then I think I would feel a sense of failure. It would mean I did not teach her to get along well with all types of athletes. A good life's lesson would be to not quit the team, but to figure out a way for her to include the high school players of all levels as a sense of TEAM. This lesson will take her into college and her first job where she'll have to get along with her coworkers. Overall, I believe that summer hockey is reserved for the all the high quality players that wish to play against/with each other. Just my two cents...

Nevertoomuchhockey
Posts: 1138
Joined: Thu Oct 03, 2013 2:59 pm

Post by Nevertoomuchhockey » Wed Jul 30, 2014 1:32 pm

I'm pretty sure that kids going into privates or transferring between privates have to abide by the same laws (after 9th grade.) My daughter can enroll at Hill as a freshman, Blake in 10th, BSM as a junior, and back to Hill as a senior? Playing varsity all the way? Don't think so.

InigoMontoya
Posts: 1719
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 12:36 pm

Post by InigoMontoya » Wed Jul 30, 2014 2:29 pm

This lesson will take her into college and her first job where she'll have to get along with her coworkers.
Wouldn't she be able to choose a college?
If she didn't like her job, wouldn't she be free to look for another company that is a better fit?

I'm not advocating an Annie-bar-the-door transfer policy, but I don't think 'Life sucks - get over it' is probably what we're shooting for, is it?

allhoc11
Posts: 464
Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2006 10:12 pm

Post by allhoc11 » Wed Jul 30, 2014 6:46 pm

U10Father wrote:I think for a team like Edina or Tonka or Eden Prairie or Wayzata or one of the Lakevilles (basically any team with a flourishing and deep feeder system) to accept transfers in is just wrong.
Most important thing you need to know about the state of public schools is this:

EACH STUDENT = $$$$$$$

Schools are allocated money based on their enrollment, which means not many schools don't except transfers, in fact most school districts encourage it even sending out information to residents in nearby districts at early ages promoting their district and the advantages of being in their district (the blue I believe D6 is referring to) is good at this. It's not athletically driven as they want them in their building as young as possible, but if a by product of this is fielding competitive sports teams which in turn draws more students to their district then that is a win-win.

From the hockey side of this argument if you look at the rosters of BSM, Blake, Breck, Holy Family I think you will find a good number of players on those rosters of the communities that you mention, so while I understand the premise of your argument, schools won't turn away transfers because the key is to keep buildings full for premium funding, but from the sports side they need to replace some of the top end talent they lose each year to other schools.

wolfman
Posts: 240
Joined: Thu Nov 07, 2013 1:09 pm

Post by wolfman » Wed Jul 30, 2014 7:34 pm

If every parent was given the voucher for what's spent on a public education things would be way different. I think it's around 10k where my kids go to high school. I'm not complaining at all about public schools (my kids attend them) but it would be nice to have the option. I'm just lucky to have a great public school to send my kids to. Now if Michelle my belle would stay out of the lunchroom things would be perfect...

U10Father
Posts: 120
Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2008 12:09 pm

Post by U10Father » Wed Jul 30, 2014 10:14 pm

Justify it all you want people. I think it's a crappy thing to do to kids who have been loyal to your feeder system. But hey, it's all about winning championships, I guess.

zambonidriver
Posts: 675
Joined: Fri Jan 17, 2014 10:31 am

Post by zambonidriver » Thu Jul 31, 2014 6:23 am

allhockey got it right it is about dollars but not just the dollars the school district gets but the dollars invested in kids playing the sport. so after all that money is invested into youth hockey parents just can't accept the fact that their kid is a JV player. That is just the landscape of the way it is today. Most of the arenas that were built back in the day weren't designed to make a profit for their communities they were supposed to be a place for kids to play. that changed in 90's with the huge raise in ice time. Take away the huge youth fees and you will have strong loyal feeder programs.

Marty
Posts: 206
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2008 3:26 pm

Post by Marty » Thu Jul 31, 2014 9:21 am

zambonidriver wrote: Take away the huge youth fees and you will have strong loyal feeder programs.
what ?

zambonidriver
Posts: 675
Joined: Fri Jan 17, 2014 10:31 am

Post by zambonidriver » Thu Jul 31, 2014 10:32 am

Marty, here is my reasoning behind this. I teach in St. Paul at a school that had a proud hockey tradition we don't have hockey anymore or a youth association. Demographics are a part of the reason but the other is affordability to play. If the cost to play hockey were affordable for all you would have the numbers. Then the transfer problem would be moot. It is all about the numbers the more kids that play the sport the more talented kids are on each team. I grew up in a town with only one school so it didn't matter. The city ran the hockey program and the hockey associations to was to support
the program. IE buy Jerseys arrange buses buy equipment etc. Organize the building of the Arenas. The park department hired and paid the coaches, paid the refs and took care of the icetime still does. The fees are still very reasonable. A couple hundred dollars. I pay around 2,000 for my daughters fees. I am lucky that I have the means to do so. There are a lot of families that don't. So as hockey becomes more and more a rich man's game you are going to see more and more movement as parents want to see a return on their investment. If I had a dollar for all the times I have heard "my kid better play after all of the money I have spent" I could start my own association.

Post Reply