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Discussion of Minnesota Girls High School Hockey

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Nevertoomuchhockey
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Post by Nevertoomuchhockey » Sun Jan 18, 2015 12:37 pm

Hey Bowhunter...
Dodge County - I watched them play during the first month of the season and I was extremely impressed. I watched them again recently and they barely got the T against a team (at least on paper) they were predicted to win easily against. Another surprising loss same week. Would never count them out in that section, but maybe you know why they look vulnerable - right now anyway.

luckyEPDad
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Post by luckyEPDad » Sun Jan 18, 2015 1:42 pm

Hard water fan wrote:I don't necessarily agree EP, but considering the deep rooted parochialism in the SW burbs, your opinion isn't surprising to me. Curious, what happened to Padgett this year? The screaming Eagles split goalie time last year and did pretty well. This year they seem to be sticking with one. Breck, MG have done well splitting time with theirs. If I remember correctly, she transferred from MG? She's a good goaltender...we have seen her play many times throughout the years as my daughter plays in the nets and is a '98. Us goalie parents try to keep tabs on each other ya know...we are a special bunch. :D
Parochialism is a big word for someone not from the SW burbs. Good for you!

Not sure what is going on with Whit. Earlier she was having knee problems and had a horrible start (and was pulled) as a result. AFAIK she's healthy now. Maybe she's a victim of superstition and a streak. I really have no idea. I think it is more common (though mistaken) for teams to stick with one netminder.

As I mentioned, my observations of TRF were based on extensive research and hours of watching game film. Oh wait, it was based on watching one game where neither team looked all that good. The arena was the most impressive thing about that game.

Hard water fan
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Post by Hard water fan » Sun Jan 18, 2015 2:45 pm

Sorry EP, but I was the benefactor of a fine education from Edina. I grew up bailing hay where your mall sits. When I was a kid, the only reason to go to EP was to go to Lions Tap for burgers. FYI, a Hornet's vernacular includes of all sorts of big words, such as State Champions. That's probably due to a teaching style that stresses repitition. :wink:

puckdaddy99
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Post by puckdaddy99 » Sun Jan 18, 2015 6:01 pm

Hard water fan wrote:Sorry EP, but I was the benefactor of a fine education from Edina. I grew up bailing hay where your mall sits. When I was a kid, the only reason to go to EP was to go to Lions Tap for burgers. FYI, a Hornet's vernacular includes of all sorts of big words, such as State Champions. That's probably due to a teaching style that stresses repitition. :wink:

Easy Hard Water on the Championships. I guess I am missing the point where the Edina girls have won a HS State Championship, this is the girls forum right? Until you win your first HS Girls State Championship I would hold my tongue :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Nevertoomuchhockey
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Post by Nevertoomuchhockey » Sun Jan 18, 2015 6:51 pm

Hard water fan wrote:Sorry EP, but I was the benefactor of a fine education from Edina. I grew up bailing hay where your mall sits. When I was a kid, the only reason to go to EP was to go to Lions Tap for burgers. FYI, a Hornet's vernacular includes of all sorts of big words, such as State Champions. That's probably due to a teaching style that stresses repitition. :wink:
Too bad it didn't stress spelling.
"Repetition."
Oohhh. Burn :wink:

Hard water fan
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Post by Hard water fan » Sun Jan 18, 2015 7:21 pm

For girls hockey I am a Mirage fan, which transcends Class (pun intended). All else, Hornets. Sorry Never, hate the cheaters (glasses). The magic box doesn't interpret my swipes correctly due to my stigmatism.

Nevertoomuchhockey
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Post by Nevertoomuchhockey » Sun Jan 18, 2015 9:11 pm

It was only funny because your spelling error was in the middle of your Edina schools boasting, otherwise I wouldn't have bothered.

sinbin
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Post by sinbin » Mon Jan 19, 2015 8:53 am

I'm not the grammar police, nor do I play one on TV, but there's one other spelling error (or more precisely, the incorrect form of a homophone used) and one critical word used incorrectly (an antonym, actually). Now, on to more important matters. Good day, all.

Otter
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Post by Otter » Mon Jan 19, 2015 5:25 pm

sinbin wrote:Section 6 - strongest in state by far for the umpteenth year in a row.
Just a little nitpick here.
One thing that bugs me about girl's hockey is that the fans have such short memories. It's because they only follow the sport for 3 or 4 years while their daughters play and then they're gone from the scene.

Remember in 2011 Section 4AA had four teams in the top ten heading into sections? Section 4 fans complained that there were at least 3 teams in the section every year that deserved to go to state and could win it (one year there were 5). The best team in the Section in 2011 was probably WBL. But Crysta Lowell tore up her knee toward the end of the season and they lost the season finale and SEC title to Roseville. Lowell came back and hobbled around in the section semi, but they lost that to HM. It was Hannah Brandt's junior year and the first time HM ever made it to state. That's four (4) seasons ago. In 2012 WBL was re-building, but Roseville, Stillwater, and HM had a war in Sections, and Brandt didn't make it back to state for her senior year. That was three (3) years ago.

I'm not sure exactly how many "umpteen" is, but where I come from I'm certain it means "greater than three (> 3)".

Half the fun of boys' hockey is talking about the past. When you go to games you run into lots and lots of fans who remember the great teams and players and crazy coaches and fans of previous seasons. Girls' hockey has none of that.

It should sound something like this:
Remember in 2006 when Eden Prairie went undefeated for their first state title? They had about 7 or 8 D1 players on that team, and all but one of them had transferred in that year and the year before (3 from Bloomington Kennedy alone), which is why everyone disliked them. The new transfer rule came about directly from pressure applied by people mad about that EP team.

And remember the next year when Stillwater won their first title over North Metro (yes North Metro) who had 8th grader Kayla Kreuter in nets? Remember in 1999 and 2000 when Knight7 led the spiritual ancestor of North Metro, Park Center, to back-to-back titles (with a little help from Krissy Wendell)?

Girls' HS hockey has been around for 20 years now. Does anybody remember anything about it?

36Guy
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Post by 36Guy » Mon Jan 19, 2015 5:30 pm

Otter wrote:
sinbin wrote:Section 6 - strongest in state by far for the umpteenth year in a row.
Just a little nitpick here.
One thing that bugs me about girl's hockey is that the fans have such short memories. It's because they only follow the sport for 3 or 4 years while their daughters play and then they're gone from the scene.

Remember in 2011 Section 4AA had four teams in the top ten heading into sections? Section 4 fans complained that there were at least 3 teams in the section every year that deserved to go to state and could win it (one year there were 5). The best team in the Section in 2011 was probably WBL. But Crysta Lowell tore up her knee toward the end of the season and they lost the season finale and SEC title to Roseville. Lowell came back and hobbled around in the section semi, but they lost that to HM. It was Hannah Brandt's junior year and the first time HM ever made it to state. That's four (4) seasons ago. In 2012 WBL was re-building, but Roseville, Stillwater, and HM had a war in Sections, and Brandt didn't make it back to state for her senior year. That was three (3) years ago.

I'm not sure exactly how many "umpteen" is, but where I come from I'm certain it means "greater than three (> 3)".

Half the fun of boys' hockey is talking about the past. When you go to games you run into lots and lots of fans who remember the great teams and players and crazy coaches and fans of previous seasons. Girls' hockey has none of that.

It should sound something like this:
Remember in 2006 when Eden Prairie went undefeated for their first state title? They had about 7 or 8 D1 players on that team, and all but one of them had transferred in that year and the year before (3 from Bloomington Kennedy alone), which is why everyone disliked them. The new transfer rule came about directly from pressure applied by people mad about that EP team.

And remember the next year when Stillwater won their first title over North Metro (yes North Metro) who had 8th grader Kayla Kreuter in nets? Remember in 1999 and 2000 when Knight7 led the spiritual ancestor of North Metro, Park Center, to back-to-back titles (with a little help from Krissy Wendell)?

Girls' HS hockey has been around for 20 years now. Does anybody remember anything about it?
Well said...and yes I do remember the past!! Great point and you brought back memories of great moments and yes most people do think hockey was invented when their daughter starting skating. Actually most blogs directly correlate to someones daughter that was slighted or team did not get enough "pub"...as a matter of fact I am probably guilty too.

With that said, we are going on 6 years were section 6 ridiculously difficult and and has won a state championship or sent a team to the finals nearly all of them. No one needs to feel sorry, as I wouldn't either...I would be like "tough Sh--". I would also argue that the memories you are talking about are also happening on the west side of town. Section 6 is sold out and the fire department was turning people away in the past because too many people were attending a "girls" playoff game.

While the past is important, today is what we are actually living and I will be disappointed in myself if I am on my soapbox in a couple years demanding everyone remember my daughters state championship in 2013. While I hope I have made it clear that I completely agree with you!!!! Why should I care when virtually everyone that has a ushsho "nickname" has basically said they don't really give a sh-- how tough district 6 is and bust out the violins, yet we are demanded to remember great sections of the past??

sinbin
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Post by sinbin » Mon Jan 19, 2015 7:52 pm

Otter, thanks for the interesting historical comments, although your math is off by a year or two. I'd go back even earlier to the early Range teams, Title IX, the first sanctioned MSHSL teams a short 20 years ago, early AV success, the Roseville Curtins, Wendell, Darwitz, 2-class state tournament, Ridder/Xcel lawsuit, then pick up where you began your mini-history below (throw in some class A teams, too, for good measure). We're blessed that our girls are able to play youth and HS hockey and we remind our girls on occasion (too often for their tastes, I'm sure) that their mothers did not have girls hockey as an option, so they should appreciate it. History is indeed replete with ebbs and flows, but 6AA has been at the top for the past 5 years. As with all things, this may not last indefinitely, but I'm sure the 6AA teams won't go down without a good fight (some tough Lake teams and others to contend with) and seem to have a decent pipeline going for many of the teams. Let the games continue.

royals dad
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Post by royals dad » Wed Jan 21, 2015 12:03 pm

In the history of this forum it has pretty much been people from section 2, 4, and 6 that complain annually about overloaded sections. Then people from the rest of the sections who chirp back that they are just whiners. In the end it should be about creating a good tournament but instead it always ends up being about either protecting your kids easier path to the X or trying to make your kids path less difficult. When they added teams like Andover and Elk River to the out state sections it kind of blew the geography arguments. Your looking at 8 metro teams in AA most years anyways, why not set something up so you could at least make a Cinderella get there via an upset (and not a free pass or three upsets like an Armstrong would need)?

If football could make changes to make things better than why cant girls hockey. Its been pretty broken as long as it has existed, maybe its time to stop chirping and fix it.

alcloseshaver
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Post by alcloseshaver » Wed Jan 21, 2015 1:08 pm

As I've said many times on this forum it is not broken. The Mission statement of the MSHSL is not based on strength of programs. Only factors are enrollment and geography. The reason fringe of the suburbs teams move out state is based on declining enrollments and coops in the out state. If you are in the inner ring of suburbs you must play each other. It doesn't need fixing and there are other sports with some of the same issues. There are other options for hockey players than the MSHSL if this issue is to much.

royals dad
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Post by royals dad » Wed Jan 21, 2015 3:11 pm

alcloseshaver wrote:As I've said many times on this forum it is not broken. The Mission statement of the MSHSL is not based on strength of programs. Only factors are enrollment and geography. The reason fringe of the suburbs teams move out state is based on declining enrollments and coops in the out state. If you are in the inner ring of suburbs you must play each other. It doesn't need fixing and there are other sports with some of the same issues. There are other options for hockey players than the MSHSL if this issue is to much.
"The League exists to provide competitive, equitable and uniform opportunities for high school students to learn valuable lessons through participation in athletics and fine arts."

Its broke.

alcloseshaver
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Post by alcloseshaver » Wed Jan 21, 2015 4:04 pm

royals dad wrote:
alcloseshaver wrote:As I've said many times on this forum it is not broken. The Mission statement of the MSHSL is not based on strength of programs. Only factors are enrollment and geography. The reason fringe of the suburbs teams move out state is based on declining enrollments and coops in the out state. If you are in the inner ring of suburbs you must play each other. It doesn't need fixing and there are other sports with some of the same issues. There are other options for hockey players than the MSHSL if this issue is to much.
"The League exists to provide competitive, equitable and uniform opportunities for high school students to learn valuable lessons through participation in athletics and fine arts."

Its broke.
Participation is the key word here, section placement is based on enrollment and geography. I give credit to the schools that have built these great programs but where would this end? Girls tennis, volleyball, some one has to be in a section with EP football. Kids are not entitled to state tournament birth. They did start seeding state tournaments which was a nice step in not having two top teams meet in the first round. As far as sections go this will never change.

36Guy
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Post by 36Guy » Wed Jan 21, 2015 4:08 pm

alcloseshaver wrote:As I've said many times on this forum it is not broken. The Mission statement of the MSHSL is not based on strength of programs. Only factors are enrollment and geography. The reason fringe of the suburbs teams move out state is based on declining enrollments and coops in the out state. If you are in the inner ring of suburbs you must play each other. It doesn't need fixing and there are other sports with some of the same issues. There are other options for hockey players than the MSHSL if this issue is to much.
It's broke!! It was broke back in the Roseville-Stillwater days, It's broke now and it will be broke someday when it is another section. If you like it...you are on a average team in a weak section. Nobody true to themselves and a true sportsman wants weaker teams in the playoffs..not in the NFL, NBA or NHL not in pop warner football.

If you say it's geographical then you are only speaking selfishly of your section. The MSHSL does not care or they would have it set up so more than 1 outstate team can get in AA every 3 years. Roseau will more than likely be the only outstate team in it, and they are good anyways! I have never heard anyone on the blog that argues for the geagraphical side stand on their soapbox and argue for teams in the Rochester, Mankato or Willmer demanding they get in to add more "statewide presence". This is not criticism, I would LOVE to see Roseaau, Moorhead and Duluth in the tourney with great teams!!

For those of you rolling your eyes, this is not a call for sympathy nor a "poor district 6" post but rather an observation.

We all know it's broke, for peat sakes I have been in AAA tournaments or 12UA tournaments and parents and coaches are coming unglued because the "brackets were not fair" or "the home team got a pass". Why because it affects their team and it's not "fair". I have never seen nor will I, seeing a parent or coach yelling in the lobby because their team got a good draw...nor sir, they take that pride their grandfather taught them and kick it under the rug for a day, pick up the phone and tell friends that they will be in the "semi's tomorrow".

And last here is your clarity!!!! It is not the MSHSL fault, they would change it if pressed. It is not geographical, they would change it if pressed. A very very high source told me it is the coaches!!!!!! Who do you think wants it changed? Tonka, MG, Wayzata, LN, LS, Edina and EP, the rest of the coaches want it to stay and they are the majority! Do you really think the coaches of ER, Forest Lake, NWC, Eagan, Eastview, Mounds View, etc, etc. want it changed? Of course not, that's why it stays. When asked by the MSHSL, 90% of the teams coaches replay it's "JUST FINE", and "it will only be a year or two" so "lets just leave It".

puckdreams
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Post by puckdreams » Wed Jan 21, 2015 4:18 pm

Section #1
Lakeville South #9
Dodge County #10
Lakevelle North #11
Rochester JM #16

Section #2
Eden Prairie #1
Edina #7
Chaska/Chan #12
Bloomington Jefferson #25

Section #3
Eagan #24
East Ridge #44
Eastview #51
Burnsville #59

Section #4
Hill Murray #4
CDH #6
Stillwater #20
Roseville #21

Section #5
Centennial #14
Mounds View #17
Blaine #18
Champlin Park #29

Section #6
Maple Grove #2
Minnetonka #3
Wayzata #5
Hopkins #15

Section #7
Elk River #13
Forest Lake #33
Andover #35
Grand Rapids/Greenway #37

Section #8
Roseau #8
Buffalo #23
River Lakes #32
Sauk Rapids #42

alcloseshaver
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Post by alcloseshaver » Wed Jan 21, 2015 4:23 pm

They proposed a 64 team NCAA style BB playoff for boy's BB a few years ago and the coaches assoc. backed it but the league didn't go for it. Your right that a majority of the coaches like the current setup but the league is about participation and will not change. Football changes were more based on scheduling issues for the regular season, sections were unchanged. I get the parental passion and the unfairness that is having the second best team in the state and not getting out of sections but this will never change. The state tournaments have a long history of great teams that don't make it in all sports. See iron range boys hockey over the years.

36Guy
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Post by 36Guy » Wed Jan 21, 2015 5:36 pm

alcloseshaver wrote:They proposed a 64 team NCAA style BB playoff for boy's BB a few years ago and the coaches assoc. backed it but the league didn't go for it. Your right that a majority of the coaches like the current setup but the league is about participation and will not change. Football changes were more based on scheduling issues for the regular season, sections were unchanged. I get the parental passion and the unfairness that is having the second best team in the state and not getting out of sections but this will never change. The state tournaments have a long history of great teams that don't make it in all sports. See iron range boys hockey over the years.
Great point! However, comparing it to boys silly. Boys has 10x the depth of teams and countless great teams from outstate. The boys tournament games are extremely unpredictable, not so much at girls state.

u12dad
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Simple Solution

Post by u12dad » Wed Jan 21, 2015 5:38 pm

Here is the simple solution: when the two final teams are determined per section, re-seed the final 16 teams. Teams 1-9 are seeded, teams 1-8 are home teams and a random draw for the remaining 7 teams. Not difficult to do (maybe some additional travel) and still allows upsets, but mostly allows the best chance of eight quality teams to make it to state.

alcloseshaver
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Post by alcloseshaver » Wed Jan 21, 2015 5:57 pm

Sweet 16 was tried for boys BB, no seeding though. 36guy is right in that it is a tough sell to the majority of the coaches. We will all have to live with it. The so called not as talented sections will have to develop stronger programs or win some games at state to quell the discontent from the 6AA folks. Good luck all, I'll be back on the boys side of the bored.

wolfman
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Post by wolfman » Wed Jan 21, 2015 8:21 pm

I think the Lake conf-section six parents should get a lawyer and start going to the MSHSL monthly meetings. You need to get this wrong turned into a right ASAP! I'm cheering for a CDH win over HM-MG win over Tonka-Edina win over EP-Dodge county win over one of the Lakevilles in sections. I'm sure if that happens you parents will have a real good lawyer.

puckdaddy99
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Post by puckdaddy99 » Wed Jan 21, 2015 9:07 pm

wolfman wrote:I think the Lake conf-section six parents should get a lawyer and start going to the MSHSL monthly meetings. You need to get this wrong turned into a right ASAP! I'm cheering for a CDH win over HM-MG win over Tonka-Edina win over EP-Dodge county win over one of the Lakevilles in sections. I'm sure if that happens you parents will have a real good lawyer.
I agree with the wolf, the homer you are 36 I really hope Tonka goes down this year. Sections are for the girls, not the parents... All you have to do is put a body on #5 and it's over. This time I will root for anyone in section 6 to knock off Tonka!

36Guy
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Post by 36Guy » Wed Jan 21, 2015 10:02 pm

puckdaddy99 wrote:
wolfman wrote:I think the Lake conf-section six parents should get a lawyer and start going to the MSHSL monthly meetings. You need to get this wrong turned into a right ASAP! I'm cheering for a CDH win over HM-MG win over Tonka-Edina win over EP-Dodge county win over one of the Lakevilles in sections. I'm sure if that happens you parents will have a real good lawyer.
I agree with the wolf, the homer you are 36 I really hope Tonka goes down this year. Sections are for the girls, not the parents... All you have to do is put a body on #5 and it's over. This time I will root for anyone in section 6 to knock off Tonka!
No problem with your takes..time will tell. Congrats on going after #5, I will pass on your criticism, I am sure she will digest it and learn from your advice. Good stuff when adults criticize kids. We are just hoping for a good game. All of the games Wolfman mentioned should be good games. Good luck to all at state, i will be there win or lose! If Wolfman is right we should have some great new teams at state. Definitely not the teams I was referring to when I was talking about a new playoff system! Peace out..good luck to all, should be fun!

Good to see some new blood on the blog like Puckdaddy, always nice to see a new objective point of view.

wolfman
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Post by wolfman » Wed Jan 21, 2015 10:47 pm

The Wolfman never ever will cheer against a kid! The Wolfman loves all the girls. Wolfman loves girls hockey and every single player. #5 is a playa and she is the real deal...

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