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Discussion of Minnesota Girls High School Hockey

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Lace'emUp
Posts: 241
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2011 10:37 am

Post by Lace'emUp » Tue Mar 10, 2015 4:49 pm

36Guy wrote:
Lace'emUp wrote:
36Guy wrote:
Lace'emUp wrote:
LZ94 wrote:Interesting that Marshall (the town) was put in 2AA. They have an enrollment of 710 and their three members of the coop pull them just over 1200 and into AA. So they will draw either Eden Prairie or Minnetonka in the first round next year. I know that the MSHSL preaches geography and that's it, but there needs to be some common sense here. Or am I too soft?
Marshall's travel costs could double or triple of they want quality AA competition (not to mention time commitment). It appears the only AA school that Marshall has played in the last 5 years is St Francis this past season. Marshall is located 115 miles away from the next closest AA school, and their conference yielded them a SOS of 114/118 this past year. In smaller or rural communities, cost sometimes is a concern - not to mention the time away from home or school. Their nearest AA game would be 8+ hour endeavor if JV is involved. Isn't there some type of appeal that Marshall can make to opt back down to play/stay in single-A? I thought I recall the last couple times the realignment happened, there were a situations like this, and teams were able to stay at their previous assignment. Any one recall the same?
Not sure about the opting down to A question. But costs, travel and time commitment in this situation are irrelevant. In theory, it would only be for one section game. Hardly costly to drive 2 and half hours for one game. Teams do from the North all the time. If that argument held true, Roseau parents would be broke and the kids would be D students.
I think you slightly misunderstood my question about travel, or I was not clear enough. If the latter, I apologize. IF Marshall was to stay at AA and they wanted to tougher schedule (multiple dates throughout the season), they'd have to travel further distances to get those games. I wasn't talking about one game at sections.

Regarding Roseau, that's a bad comparison. They have a far greater commitment to hockey. Roseau's population is 1/5th of Marshall's, yet Roseau has two 12U teams. Marshall has one 12UB team. Roseau's youth teams make many trips down to the cities over the season to play in scrimmage weekends or tournaments. From looking at Marshall's 12U schedule, they don't. Thus, when Roseau opted-up years ago, they knew exactly what their commitment would need to be to play at a HIGH level in AA - it starts at the youth level (competition, travel, etc). Marshall is completely different situation. By numbers, they would be forced into AA. However, this is all a moot point since it appears they'll reorganize their co-ops.
Noooo....Roseau was a great comparison. Your comments were about money, and travel time, of which, I don't believe Roseau has more of either. Committed, yes, Roseau is as committed a hockey community as there is in the nation. I still don't know if the 12UB parents at Marshall are less committed than the 12UA parents at Roseau. I came from a very small town where girls hockey meant absolutely nothing when we got there and had zero girls hockey tradition and the parents were as passionate and committed as I have seen.
Ok, I can understand your point of view.
Now that we know Marshall is going to re-do their co-op to move back down to single-A, why are they doing this? Why are they not staying at AA?

alcloseshaver
Posts: 1474
Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2012 9:29 am
Location: Met Center Press Box

Post by alcloseshaver » Tue Mar 10, 2015 5:18 pm

Because they are Marshall and they should be in A.

alcloseshaver
Posts: 1474
Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2012 9:29 am
Location: Met Center Press Box

Post by alcloseshaver » Tue Mar 10, 2015 5:28 pm

36Guy wrote:
Lace'emUp wrote:
36Guy wrote:
Lace'emUp wrote:
LZ94 wrote:Interesting that Marshall (the town) was put in 2AA. They have an enrollment of 710 and their three members of the coop pull them just over 1200 and into AA. So they will draw either Eden Prairie or Minnetonka in the first round next year. I know that the MSHSL preaches geography and that's it, but there needs to be some common sense here. Or am I too soft?
Marshall's travel costs could double or triple of they want quality AA competition (not to mention time commitment). It appears the only AA school that Marshall has played in the last 5 years is St Francis this past season. Marshall is located 115 miles away from the next closest AA school, and their conference yielded them a SOS of 114/118 this past year. In smaller or rural communities, cost sometimes is a concern - not to mention the time away from home or school. Their nearest AA game would be 8+ hour endeavor if JV is involved. Isn't there some type of appeal that Marshall can make to opt back down to play/stay in single-A? I thought I recall the last couple times the realignment happened, there were a situations like this, and teams were able to stay at their previous assignment. Any one recall the same?
Not sure about the opting down to A question. But costs, travel and time commitment in this situation are irrelevant. In theory, it would only be for one section game. Hardly costly to drive 2 and half hours for one game. Teams do from the North all the time. If that argument held true, Roseau parents would be broke and the kids would be D students.
I think you slightly misunderstood my question about travel, or I was not clear enough. If the latter, I apologize. IF Marshall was to stay at AA and they wanted to tougher schedule (multiple dates throughout the season), they'd have to travel further distances to get those games. I wasn't talking about one game at sections.

Regarding Roseau, that's a bad comparison. They have a far greater commitment to hockey. Roseau's population is 1/5th of Marshall's, yet Roseau has two 12U teams. Marshall has one 12UB team. Roseau's youth teams make many trips down to the cities over the season to play in scrimmage weekends or tournaments. From looking at Marshall's 12U schedule, they don't. Thus, when Roseau opted-up years ago, they knew exactly what their commitment would need to be to play at a HIGH level in AA - it starts at the youth level (competition, travel, etc). Marshall is completely different situation. By numbers, they would be forced into AA. However, this is all a moot point since it appears they'll reorganize their co-ops.
Noooo....Roseau was a great comparison. Your comments were about money, and travel time, of which, I don't believe Roseau has more of either. Committed, yes, Roseau is as committed a hockey community as there is in the nation. I still don't know if the 12UB parents at Marshall are less committed than the 12UA parents at Roseau. I came from a very small town where girls hockey meant absolutely nothing when we got there and had zero girls hockey tradition and the parents were as passionate and committed as I have seen.
Are you referring to STMA? Or somewhere else?

Lace'emUp
Posts: 241
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2011 10:37 am

Post by Lace'emUp » Tue Mar 10, 2015 6:11 pm

alcloseshaver wrote:Because they are Marshall and they should be in A.
I agree with that, but my question was more for 36Guy. He seemed to be defending the move up to AA, and that fairness should not be a factor for the move because the HS playoff system isn't fair anyways.

Now that nu2hockey confirmed that Marshall is going back to single-A, I wanted to see what his opinion was. The arguments of common sense, fairness, cost, competitiveness, commitment, and location were all shot down. So why Marshall is manipulating the co-op to stay at single-A? My guess is that one or more of the above reason is why they're going back.

Dead horse officially beaten beyond recognition now.

Maverick2000
Posts: 71
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2013 9:12 am

Post by Maverick2000 » Tue Mar 10, 2015 10:55 pm

Marshall's travel costs could double or triple of they want quality AA competition (not to mention time commitment). It appears the only AA school that Marshall has played in the last 5 years is St Francis this past season. Marshall is located 115 miles away from the next closest AA school, and their conference yielded them a SOS of 114/118 this past year. In smaller or rural communities, cost sometimes is a concern - not to mention the time away from home or school. Their nearest AA game would be 8+ hour endeavor if JV is involved. Isn't there some type of appeal that Marshall can make to opt
back down to play/stay in single-A? I thought I recall the last couple times the realignment happened, there were a situations like this, and teams were able to stay at their previous assignment. Any one recall the same?[/quote]

Dodge county has had to deal with this as well as some of the schools used in the coop produce no players and three of them produce only one player yet take on all the schools populations towards being double A.

InigoMontoya
Posts: 1716
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 12:36 pm

Post by InigoMontoya » Wed Mar 11, 2015 6:48 am

I would hope common sense would prevail to allow those teams to play A. Are we really going to tell a couple girls they can't play hockey because a couple hundred of their classmates make the coop too big? That doesn't seem like a plan to grow girls' hockey in the state of Minnesota.

36Guy
Posts: 384
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2011 4:14 pm

Post by 36Guy » Wed Mar 11, 2015 8:31 am

InigoMontoya wrote:I would hope common sense would prevail to allow those teams to play A. Are we really going to tell a couple girls they can't play hockey because a couple hundred of their classmates make the coop too big? That doesn't seem like a plan to grow girls' hockey in the state of Minnesota.
I completely agree with Inigo, Marshall should play A. The AD's at the schools should have thought of the effects of a co-op. While it would be great to put teams in A or AA based on geographics or strength of team, the reality is that is not how the MSHSL works. Unfortunately in todays world, everybody sues everybody. Thus resulting in rules with zero flexibility.

36Guy
Posts: 384
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2011 4:14 pm

Post by 36Guy » Wed Mar 11, 2015 8:33 am

alcloseshaver wrote:
36Guy wrote:
Lace'emUp wrote:
36Guy wrote:
Lace'emUp wrote:
LZ94 wrote:Interesting that Marshall (the town) was put in 2AA. They have an enrollment of 710 and their three members of the coop pull them just over 1200 and into AA. So they will draw either Eden Prairie or Minnetonka in the first round next year. I know that the MSHSL preaches geography and that's it, but there needs to be some common sense here. Or am I too soft?
Marshall's travel costs could double or triple of they want quality AA competition (not to mention time commitment). It appears the only AA school that Marshall has played in the last 5 years is St Francis this past season. Marshall is located 115 miles away from the next closest AA school, and their conference yielded them a SOS of 114/118 this past year. In smaller or rural communities, cost sometimes is a concern - not to mention the time away from home or school. Their nearest AA game would be 8+ hour endeavor if JV is involved. Isn't there some type of appeal that Marshall can make to opt back down to play/stay in single-A? I thought I recall the last couple times the realignment happened, there were a situations like this, and teams were able to stay at their previous assignment. Any one recall the same?
Not sure about the opting down to A question. But costs, travel and time commitment in this situation are irrelevant. In theory, it would only be for one section game. Hardly costly to drive 2 and half hours for one game. Teams do from the North all the time. If that argument held true, Roseau parents would be broke and the kids would be D students.
I think you slightly misunderstood my question about travel, or I was not clear enough. If the latter, I apologize. IF Marshall was to stay at AA and they wanted to tougher schedule (multiple dates throughout the season), they'd have to travel further distances to get those games. I wasn't talking about one game at sections.

Regarding Roseau, that's a bad comparison. They have a far greater commitment to hockey. Roseau's population is 1/5th of Marshall's, yet Roseau has two 12U teams. Marshall has one 12UB team. Roseau's youth teams make many trips down to the cities over the season to play in scrimmage weekends or tournaments. From looking at Marshall's 12U schedule, they don't. Thus, when Roseau opted-up years ago, they knew exactly what their commitment would need to be to play at a HIGH level in AA - it starts at the youth level (competition, travel, etc). Marshall is completely different situation. By numbers, they would be forced into AA. However, this is all a moot point since it appears they'll reorganize their co-ops.
Noooo....Roseau was a great comparison. Your comments were about money, and travel time, of which, I don't believe Roseau has more of either. Committed, yes, Roseau is as committed a hockey community as there is in the nation. I still don't know if the 12UB parents at Marshall are less committed than the 12UA parents at Roseau. I came from a very small town where girls hockey meant absolutely nothing when we got there and had zero girls hockey tradition and the parents were as passionate and committed as I have seen.
Are you referring to STMA? Or somewhere else?
Boston!

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