Girls HS Hockey in Major Decline

Discussion of Minnesota Girls High School Hockey

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jg2112
Posts: 518
Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2013 8:36 am

Post by jg2112 » Tue Jan 26, 2016 8:02 am

thegreatone99 wrote:
36Guy wrote:One solution is to do what Ej at Minnetonka has done. He has removed all private schools from his schedule and will not play them in the future. I have mixed emotions because my daughter has to miss the opportunity to play some great teams. I have not yet decided how I feel about it, but, I do appreciate the fact that he took a stance and acted on it.

Yes, a few unexpected players have crossed his door step, but it pales in comparison to what he has lost over the years. Dozens of players to privates and even girls on team USA. A lot of Blakes roster is from Edina..UGH would they be good.

Wayzata has lost several Miss Hockey's such as Chute and Camoranesi and dozens more. EP has been decimated losing Bullock, Lund, Burke, etc..etc just in the past 2 years. Without a doubt these schools would have more banners if they did not lose these kids to privates.

HOWEVER...is the solution to stockpile 5 great public schools, and bury the remaining publics and privates? I don't think so. As silly as it sounds, I think the privates are actually balancing the competition in the cities not hurting it. Yes the privates are hot right now, but as with everything there is eb and flow and times will change. And last, if we banned these private demons from our (public) home grown country club, where do you think these kids would start showing up? Edina, Tonka, Stillwater, Blaine, etc.

Good for Ej for not whining and acting out what he feels is right! HM has cost my daughter a State Championship and possibly two if we're blessed. But I for one would like to hop in the ring and take a swing rather than have the belt handed to me! The Championship last year was a great game and HM was deserving!

With all that said, the privates are fine...but yes they all should be AA with the option to petition to play down to A.
Hats off to tonka taking a stance if they truly have. Personally I think all these teams are afraid to lose to a class A team versus trying to penalize them. I would prefer to see these privates all play up like Hill does. Instead of trying to dominate the Class A tourney like what is happening now. Their rosters and results show they can compete very easily. Remember there is zero checking in the girls game, so this makes it very easy to compete with the bigger schools, especially when you have a couple of ringers who will just take the puck coast to coast and score. That would never happen on the boys side. Or be able to have the success with one - half lines and three D.

The same issue that plagued St Thomas for years is the same issue plaguing the girls side now with Breck and Blake. If you have rosters with players who recently participated in USA hockey tourney's, why the heck are you playing single A? If Breck and Blake moved up the big five can compete for the metro wide bragging rights which I am sure if you asked the girls, they would prefer. Otherwise they would not have schedules dominated with AA opponents so they can have the best of both worlds. But at the end of the year still call themselves Champions by winning the Class A tourney.

As I stated in a earlier post, we all know recruiting just doesn't happen at Blake or Breck with generous financial aid packages for those skilled enough to command one... Recruiting and move-ins happen at the big 5 too. Is this a by-product from all the political summer teams girls play on together and then decide to play at certain schools? Even with tonka, I think he has only lost one player that currently plays at Breck and your mention to USA hockey. But he captured two move-ins (without knowing the stats - could be wrong) who score 95% of their team's goals this year. If these two were not on his team, I do not think they would be having the same success. So the cupboard is not bare for him either or their program. He should just go ahead and play them unless he is afraid of losing to a stocked Class A team. I appreciate his stance, but this appears to be "calling the kettle black" when he has received the same benefits of coaching at a school/program where kids come to play hockey, recruited or not.

Leave the Class A tourney for the Hibbings or TRFs of the world, where it actually means something to the community.

These are some of the key reasons why in five years you will have a major decline except for the five metro programs who will always be the haves. Is the girl's game even part of Hockey Day MN this year? That says a lot where the game is headed and by the time MSHSL reacts, it will be too late.
Happy birthday, by the way, Great One.

36Guy
Posts: 384
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2011 4:14 pm

Post by 36Guy » Tue Jan 26, 2016 8:17 am

thegreatone99 wrote:
36Guy wrote:One solution is to do what Ej at Minnetonka has done. He has removed all private schools from his schedule and will not play them in the future. I have mixed emotions because my daughter has to miss the opportunity to play some great teams. I have not yet decided how I feel about it, but, I do appreciate the fact that he took a stance and acted on it.

Yes, a few unexpected players have crossed his door step, but it pales in comparison to what he has lost over the years. Dozens of players to privates and even girls on team USA. A lot of Blakes roster is from Edina..UGH would they be good.

Wayzata has lost several Miss Hockey's such as Chute and Camoranesi and dozens more. EP has been decimated losing Bullock, Lund, Burke, etc..etc just in the past 2 years. Without a doubt these schools would have more banners if they did not lose these kids to privates.

HOWEVER...is the solution to stockpile 5 great public schools, and bury the remaining publics and privates? I don't think so. As silly as it sounds, I think the privates are actually balancing the competition in the cities not hurting it. Yes the privates are hot right now, but as with everything there is eb and flow and times will change. And last, if we banned these private demons from our (public) home grown country club, where do you think these kids would start showing up? Edina, Tonka, Stillwater, Blaine, etc.

Good for Ej for not whining and acting out what he feels is right! HM has cost my daughter a State Championship and possibly two if we're blessed. But I for one would like to hop in the ring and take a swing rather than have the belt handed to me! The Championship last year was a great game and HM was deserving!

With all that said, the privates are fine...but yes they all should be AA with the option to petition to play down to A.
Hats off to tonka taking a stance if they truly have. Personally I think all these teams are afraid to lose to a class A team versus trying to penalize them. I would prefer to see these privates all play up like Hill does. Instead of trying to dominate the Class A tourney like what is happening now. Their rosters and results show they can compete very easily. Remember there is zero checking in the girls game, so this makes it very easy to compete with the bigger schools, especially when you have a couple of ringers who will just take the puck coast to coast and score. That would never happen on the boys side. Or be able to have the success with one - half lines and three D.

The same issue that plagued St Thomas for years is the same issue plaguing the girls side now with Breck and Blake. If you have rosters with players who recently participated in USA hockey tourney's, why the heck are you playing single A? If Breck and Blake moved up the big five can compete for the metro wide bragging rights which I am sure if you asked the girls, they would prefer. Otherwise they would not have schedules dominated with AA opponents so they can have the best of both worlds. But at the end of the year still call themselves Champions by winning the Class A tourney.

As I stated in a earlier post, we all know recruiting just doesn't happen at Blake or Breck with generous financial aid packages for those skilled enough to command one... Recruiting and move-ins happen at the big 5 too. Is this a by-product from all the political summer teams girls play on together and then decide to play at certain schools? Even with tonka, I think he has only lost one player that currently plays at Breck and your mention to USA hockey. But he captured two move-ins (without knowing the stats - could be wrong) who score 95% of their team's goals this year. If these two were not on his team, I do not think they would be having the same success. So the cupboard is not bare for him either or their program. He should just go ahead and play them unless he is afraid of losing to a stocked Class A team. I appreciate his stance, but this appears to be "calling the kettle black" when he has received the same benefits of coaching at a school/program where kids come to play hockey, recruited or not.

Leave the Class A tourney for the Hibbings or TRFs of the world, where it actually means something to the community.

These are some of the key reasons why in five years you will have a major decline except for the five metro programs who will always be the haves. Is the girl's game even part of Hockey Day MN this year? That says a lot where the game is headed and by the time MSHSL reacts, it will be too late.
Well I can't say I did not see that coming, but really the "have and have nots"? The "AAA programs"? "The people in the know"? Ick! I am humored and saddened by your ignorance. But, just watch the news and I see 50 of you every night.

Ej's stance on privates is not a maybe but fact.

Afraid to play A's? The last time we played A's in a sanctioned game we beat Blake 7-1 and 4-2 in the last game of the year. Both those years Blake were State Champs in A. And we still play Warroad. So your fear of A's must lie in the loins of your program.

Breck does not have 1 but 2 (3 this year and last) girls from Tonka and that does not include BSM, Holy Family and Blake.

I have one of those political summer teams. We recruit kids and cut parents so you would be out!

One and half lines and 3 D? We have Hudl, I would bet almost every team we have played this year has gone shorter than us, so if you would like to sit down and watch.. PM me, rather than argue with you I will just show you. But you have to promise me you won't complain about us editing the tapes a little (us big wigs have people)

It is not the "pot calling the kettle black", as I stated above, Ej has had a couple girls come in but I can assure you the numbers he loses far out weighs the numbers he gained. And he has only had one "transfer" since I've been here in 4 1/2 years. Unless, under your parameters on my 13 year old daughter that moved here when my wife got transferred. (I will double check the MSHL rules and see what there rules are on a 4'4", 80 pd, 13 year old still in Jr high falls under)

Leave the the A tourney for Hibbing and TRF's where it means something? I think all hockey parents want it. Being a hockey parent is a thankless, expensive, time consuming and WONDERFUL thing. And anyone that stays the course through high school I would bet it means a lot!

And last..the people in "the know"? I know a lot and I mean a lot of girls state and nation wide who have moved around, showed up at "different" high schools. 95% of them you never hear about, why, because if the don't have so called "success" nobody cares. Do you care about the Ok player that illegally moves from Cambridge to Princeton after you drub Princeton 10-0? Of course you don't!

After 4 years I have figured it out! We just need to get rid of "A" and "AA" and have 2 tiers. One for the "Haves" and one for the "Have Nots". I will leave that up to the Great one to decide who is in each. (Fyi, I think I have like $8 dollars in my wallet if it matters) Peace!

Oh sorry one more thing..did I just get reeled in on my own lure? Perhaps it is I who is the biggest fish?? :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops:
Last edited by 36Guy on Tue Jan 26, 2016 8:27 am, edited 1 time in total.

thegreatone99
Posts: 172
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2016 11:45 am

Post by thegreatone99 » Tue Jan 26, 2016 8:24 am

jg2112 wrote:
thegreatone99 wrote:
36Guy wrote:One solution is to do what Ej at Minnetonka has done. He has removed all private schools from his schedule and will not play them in the future. I have mixed emotions because my daughter has to miss the opportunity to play some great teams. I have not yet decided how I feel about it, but, I do appreciate the fact that he took a stance and acted on it.

Yes, a few unexpected players have crossed his door step, but it pales in comparison to what he has lost over the years. Dozens of players to privates and even girls on team USA. A lot of Blakes roster is from Edina..UGH would they be good.

Wayzata has lost several Miss Hockey's such as Chute and Camoranesi and dozens more. EP has been decimated losing Bullock, Lund, Burke, etc..etc just in the past 2 years. Without a doubt these schools would have more banners if they did not lose these kids to privates.

HOWEVER...is the solution to stockpile 5 great public schools, and bury the remaining publics and privates? I don't think so. As silly as it sounds, I think the privates are actually balancing the competition in the cities not hurting it. Yes the privates are hot right now, but as with everything there is eb and flow and times will change. And last, if we banned these private demons from our (public) home grown country club, where do you think these kids would start showing up? Edina, Tonka, Stillwater, Blaine, etc.

Good for Ej for not whining and acting out what he feels is right! HM has cost my daughter a State Championship and possibly two if we're blessed. But I for one would like to hop in the ring and take a swing rather than have the belt handed to me! The Championship last year was a great game and HM was deserving!

With all that said, the privates are fine...but yes they all should be AA with the option to petition to play down to A.
Hats off to tonka taking a stance if they truly have. Personally I think all these teams are afraid to lose to a class A team versus trying to penalize them. I would prefer to see these privates all play up like Hill does. Instead of trying to dominate the Class A tourney like what is happening now. Their rosters and results show they can compete very easily. Remember there is zero checking in the girls game, so this makes it very easy to compete with the bigger schools, especially when you have a couple of ringers who will just take the puck coast to coast and score. That would never happen on the boys side. Or be able to have the success with one - half lines and three D.

The same issue that plagued St Thomas for years is the same issue plaguing the girls side now with Breck and Blake. If you have rosters with players who recently participated in USA hockey tourney's, why the heck are you playing single A? If Breck and Blake moved up the big five can compete for the metro wide bragging rights which I am sure if you asked the girls, they would prefer. Otherwise they would not have schedules dominated with AA opponents so they can have the best of both worlds. But at the end of the year still call themselves Champions by winning the Class A tourney.

As I stated in a earlier post, we all know recruiting just doesn't happen at Blake or Breck with generous financial aid packages for those skilled enough to command one... Recruiting and move-ins happen at the big 5 too. Is this a by-product from all the political summer teams girls play on together and then decide to play at certain schools? Even with tonka, I think he has only lost one player that currently plays at Breck and your mention to USA hockey. But he captured two move-ins (without knowing the stats - could be wrong) who score 95% of their team's goals this year. If these two were not on his team, I do not think they would be having the same success. So the cupboard is not bare for him either or their program. He should just go ahead and play them unless he is afraid of losing to a stocked Class A team. I appreciate his stance, but this appears to be "calling the kettle black" when he has received the same benefits of coaching at a school/program where kids come to play hockey, recruited or not.

Leave the Class A tourney for the Hibbings or TRFs of the world, where it actually means something to the community.

These are some of the key reasons why in five years you will have a major decline except for the five metro programs who will always be the haves. Is the girl's game even part of Hockey Day MN this year? That says a lot where the game is headed and by the time MSHSL reacts, it will be too late.
Happy birthday, by the way, Great One.
Thank you! big 55 now, how time flies when your having fun
stoking the fire

36Guy
Posts: 384
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2011 4:14 pm

Post by 36Guy » Tue Jan 26, 2016 8:32 am

thegreatone99 wrote:
jg2112 wrote:
thegreatone99 wrote:
36Guy wrote:One solution is to do what Ej at Minnetonka has done. He has removed all private schools from his schedule and will not play them in the future. I have mixed emotions because my daughter has to miss the opportunity to play some great teams. I have not yet decided how I feel about it, but, I do appreciate the fact that he took a stance and acted on it.

Yes, a few unexpected players have crossed his door step, but it pales in comparison to what he has lost over the years. Dozens of players to privates and even girls on team USA. A lot of Blakes roster is from Edina..UGH would they be good.

Wayzata has lost several Miss Hockey's such as Chute and Camoranesi and dozens more. EP has been decimated losing Bullock, Lund, Burke, etc..etc just in the past 2 years. Without a doubt these schools would have more banners if they did not lose these kids to privates.

HOWEVER...is the solution to stockpile 5 great public schools, and bury the remaining publics and privates? I don't think so. As silly as it sounds, I think the privates are actually balancing the competition in the cities not hurting it. Yes the privates are hot right now, but as with everything there is eb and flow and times will change. And last, if we banned these private demons from our (public) home grown country club, where do you think these kids would start showing up? Edina, Tonka, Stillwater, Blaine, etc.

Good for Ej for not whining and acting out what he feels is right! HM has cost my daughter a State Championship and possibly two if we're blessed. But I for one would like to hop in the ring and take a swing rather than have the belt handed to me! The Championship last year was a great game and HM was deserving!

With all that said, the privates are fine...but yes they all should be AA with the option to petition to play down to A.
Hats off to tonka taking a stance if they truly have. Personally I think all these teams are afraid to lose to a class A team versus trying to penalize them. I would prefer to see these privates all play up like Hill does. Instead of trying to dominate the Class A tourney like what is happening now. Their rosters and results show they can compete very easily. Remember there is zero checking in the girls game, so this makes it very easy to compete with the bigger schools, especially when you have a couple of ringers who will just take the puck coast to coast and score. That would never happen on the boys side. Or be able to have the success with one - half lines and three D.

The same issue that plagued St Thomas for years is the same issue plaguing the girls side now with Breck and Blake. If you have rosters with players who recently participated in USA hockey tourney's, why the heck are you playing single A? If Breck and Blake moved up the big five can compete for the metro wide bragging rights which I am sure if you asked the girls, they would prefer. Otherwise they would not have schedules dominated with AA opponents so they can have the best of both worlds. But at the end of the year still call themselves Champions by winning the Class A tourney.

As I stated in a earlier post, we all know recruiting just doesn't happen at Blake or Breck with generous financial aid packages for those skilled enough to command one... Recruiting and move-ins happen at the big 5 too. Is this a by-product from all the political summer teams girls play on together and then decide to play at certain schools? Even with tonka, I think he has only lost one player that currently plays at Breck and your mention to USA hockey. But he captured two move-ins (without knowing the stats - could be wrong) who score 95% of their team's goals this year. If these two were not on his team, I do not think they would be having the same success. So the cupboard is not bare for him either or their program. He should just go ahead and play them unless he is afraid of losing to a stocked Class A team. I appreciate his stance, but this appears to be "calling the kettle black" when he has received the same benefits of coaching at a school/program where kids come to play hockey, recruited or not.

Leave the Class A tourney for the Hibbings or TRFs of the world, where it actually means something to the community.

These are some of the key reasons why in five years you will have a major decline except for the five metro programs who will always be the haves. Is the girl's game even part of Hockey Day MN this year? That says a lot where the game is headed and by the time MSHSL reacts, it will be too late.
Happy birthday, by the way, Great One.
Thank you! big 55 now, how time flies when your having fun
stoking the fire
Congrats and Happy Birthday! What kind of boat do you drive?

skatez
Posts: 26
Joined: Tue Sep 03, 2013 9:22 pm

Post by skatez » Tue Jan 26, 2016 8:51 am

The Tonka point is ridiculous. Their two best players weren't there as 8th graders (one wasn't as a 10th grader) so to act like they are some sort of martyr is ridiculous. Coach won't play privates, but if a Division 1 player shows up from a private we'll welcome them with open arms. The whole "family job transfer" is a joke too. Parents shop for the best high school experience for their kid and they should not be judged. There is nothing wrong with saying "my kid wanted to play hockey for Minnetonka". Those people aren't traitors, they are doing what they feel is best for their son or daughter.

Where are the people feeling bad for BSM?? Seems their former players are in the state championship game every year (representing privates and publics) and no one feels bad for them.

Player movement happens everywhere. It happens in U10. Its the AAA/AAU sports culture and unfortunately its not going to change, probably only going to get worse. Its unfortunate but it is the world we live in.

36Guy
Posts: 384
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2011 4:14 pm

Post by 36Guy » Tue Jan 26, 2016 9:18 am

skatez wrote:The Tonka point is ridiculous. Their two best players weren't there as 8th graders (one wasn't as a 10th grader) so to act like they are some sort of martyr is ridiculous. Coach won't play privates, but if a Division 1 player shows up from a private we'll welcome them with open arms. The whole "family job transfer" is a joke too. Parents shop for the best high school experience for their kid and they should not be judged. There is nothing wrong with saying "my kid wanted to play hockey for Minnetonka". Those people aren't traitors, they are doing what they feel is best for their son or daughter.

Where are the people feeling bad for BSM?? Seems their former players are in the state championship game every year (representing privates and publics) and no one feels bad for them.

Player movement happens everywhere. It happens in U10. Its the AAA/AAU sports culture and unfortunately its not going to change, probably only going to get worse. Its unfortunate but it is the world we live in.
Thank you for the update, I will let my wife know she has been driving to the wrong building the last 4 years. Go0d therapy too! I was totally afraid to speak the truth until you made me see the light! That's what I'm known for, a quiet afraid to speak my mind kind of guy! #notscaredanymore #beenlivinglies :shock: :D

thegreatone99
Posts: 172
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2016 11:45 am

Post by thegreatone99 » Tue Jan 26, 2016 1:21 pm

36Guy wrote:
thegreatone99 wrote:
36Guy wrote:One solution is to do what Ej at Minnetonka has done. He has removed all private schools from his schedule and will not play them in the future. I have mixed emotions because my daughter has to miss the opportunity to play some great teams. I have not yet decided how I feel about it, but, I do appreciate the fact that he took a stance and acted on it.

Yes, a few unexpected players have crossed his door step, but it pales in comparison to what he has lost over the years. Dozens of players to privates and even girls on team USA. A lot of Blakes roster is from Edina..UGH would they be good.

Wayzata has lost several Miss Hockey's such as Chute and Camoranesi and dozens more. EP has been decimated losing Bullock, Lund, Burke, etc..etc just in the past 2 years. Without a doubt these schools would have more banners if they did not lose these kids to privates.

HOWEVER...is the solution to stockpile 5 great public schools, and bury the remaining publics and privates? I don't think so. As silly as it sounds, I think the privates are actually balancing the competition in the cities not hurting it. Yes the privates are hot right now, but as with everything there is eb and flow and times will change. And last, if we banned these private demons from our (public) home grown country club, where do you think these kids would start showing up? Edina, Tonka, Stillwater, Blaine, etc.

Good for Ej for not whining and acting out what he feels is right! HM has cost my daughter a State Championship and possibly two if we're blessed. But I for one would like to hop in the ring and take a swing rather than have the belt handed to me! The Championship last year was a great game and HM was deserving!

With all that said, the privates are fine...but yes they all should be AA with the option to petition to play down to A.
Hats off to tonka taking a stance if they truly have. Personally I think all these teams are afraid to lose to a class A team versus trying to penalize them. I would prefer to see these privates all play up like Hill does. Instead of trying to dominate the Class A tourney like what is happening now. Their rosters and results show they can compete very easily. Remember there is zero checking in the girls game, so this makes it very easy to compete with the bigger schools, especially when you have a couple of ringers who will just take the puck coast to coast and score. That would never happen on the boys side. Or be able to have the success with one - half lines and three D.

The same issue that plagued St Thomas for years is the same issue plaguing the girls side now with Breck and Blake. If you have rosters with players who recently participated in USA hockey tourney's, why the heck are you playing single A? If Breck and Blake moved up the big five can compete for the metro wide bragging rights which I am sure if you asked the girls, they would prefer. Otherwise they would not have schedules dominated with AA opponents so they can have the best of both worlds. But at the end of the year still call themselves Champions by winning the Class A tourney.

As I stated in a earlier post, we all know recruiting just doesn't happen at Blake or Breck with generous financial aid packages for those skilled enough to command one... Recruiting and move-ins happen at the big 5 too. Is this a by-product from all the political summer teams girls play on together and then decide to play at certain schools? Even with tonka, I think he has only lost one player that currently plays at Breck and your mention to USA hockey. But he captured two move-ins (without knowing the stats - could be wrong) who score 95% of their team's goals this year. If these two were not on his team, I do not think they would be having the same success. So the cupboard is not bare for him either or their program. He should just go ahead and play them unless he is afraid of losing to a stocked Class A team. I appreciate his stance, but this appears to be "calling the kettle black" when he has received the same benefits of coaching at a school/program where kids come to play hockey, recruited or not.

Leave the Class A tourney for the Hibbings or TRFs of the world, where it actually means something to the community.

These are some of the key reasons why in five years you will have a major decline except for the five metro programs who will always be the haves. Is the girl's game even part of Hockey Day MN this year? That says a lot where the game is headed and by the time MSHSL reacts, it will be too late.
Well I can't say I did not see that coming, but really the "have and have nots"? The "AAA programs"? "The people in the know"? Ick! I am humored and saddened by your ignorance. But, just watch the news and I see 50 of you every night.

Ej's stance on privates is not a maybe but fact.

Afraid to play A's? The last time we played A's in a sanctioned game we beat Blake 7-1 and 4-2 in the last game of the year. Both those years Blake were State Champs in A. And we still play Warroad. So your fear of A's must lie in the loins of your program.

Breck does not have 1 but 2 (3 this year and last) girls from Tonka and that does not include BSM, Holy Family and Blake.

I have one of those political summer teams. We recruit kids and cut parents so you would be out!

One and half lines and 3 D? We have Hudl, I would bet almost every team we have played this year has gone shorter than us, so if you would like to sit down and watch.. PM me, rather than argue with you I will just show you. But you have to promise me you won't complain about us editing the tapes a little (us big wigs have people)

It is not the "pot calling the kettle black", as I stated above, Ej has had a couple girls come in but I can assure you the numbers he loses far out weighs the numbers he gained. And he has only had one "transfer" since I've been here in 4 1/2 years. Unless, under your parameters on my 13 year old daughter that moved here when my wife got transferred. (I will double check the MSHL rules and see what there rules are on a 4'4", 80 pd, 13 year old still in Jr high falls under)

Leave the the A tourney for Hibbing and TRF's where it means something? I think all hockey parents want it. Being a hockey parent is a thankless, expensive, time consuming and WONDERFUL thing. And anyone that stays the course through high school I would bet it means a lot!

And last..the people in "the know"? I know a lot and I mean a lot of girls state and nation wide who have moved around, showed up at "different" high schools. 95% of them you never hear about, why, because if the don't have so called "success" nobody cares. Do you care about the Ok player that illegally moves from Cambridge to Princeton after you drub Princeton 10-0? Of course you don't!

After 4 years I have figured it out! We just need to get rid of "A" and "AA" and have 2 tiers. One for the "Haves" and one for the "Have Nots". I will leave that up to the Great one to decide who is in each. (Fyi, I think I have like $8 dollars in my wallet if it matters) Peace!

Oh sorry one more thing..did I just get reeled in on my own lure? Perhaps it is I who is the biggest fish?? :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops:
Ok step back, please climb back off the edge, it will all be ok when you wake up.

Just a little secret, my daughter was actually at one of the B's, made it on her own as a walk on in college, but hockey was not the reason for the school. It was the great nursing program they offered and after 2 years decided enough was enough as it was hard to juggle both the academics and sport. Did we lose to tonka yes and it was completely ok, in fact lost 5-2, 5-1, and 7-1. And our best player then happens to be the same player scoring all the goals for a very big Univ program. Did we play one and half lines, absolutely. Was this right, no and always did bug me. Back then we probably played max 5 AA schools can't remember, and some of these were due to being in the Edina tourney. We also got thumped by Warroad 12-3, all ok. But like anything, times have changed and time for them to move up and leave the Class A tourney to the smaller schools. The best thing we did was pull our daughter at U12 when the wackos really started to show up during the summer and gave her some alpine lessons that seem to be going just fine. Sounds like you may be one of those wackos with your recruited summer team.

I am not sure what got you going and your hair up in a tizzy with the one and half line comment and three D, that was not directed at you or your team. I have no idea how many lines you have I would assume four because your numbers can support that depth and you have some easy games.

So yes ( I am biting your lure) I saw firsthand the small private setups and recruitments between the B & Bs. And from what I see now, it is only worse and why they should both move up. We did not have this issue when we played our pond hockey on the river, with the ultimate goal of getting to St Paul to play in the clear boards, what a treat.

So please step back, get off the ledge, it will be ok, no one was bashing your beloved hornets, but after your confession, maybe they will. MAHALO!

36Guy
Posts: 384
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2011 4:14 pm

Post by 36Guy » Tue Jan 26, 2016 3:50 pm

thegreatone99 wrote:
36Guy wrote:
thegreatone99 wrote:
36Guy wrote:One solution is to do what Ej at Minnetonka has done. He has removed all private schools from his schedule and will not play them in the future. I have mixed emotions because my daughter has to miss the opportunity to play some great teams. I have not yet decided how I feel about it, but, I do appreciate the fact that he took a stance and acted on it.

Yes, a few unexpected players have crossed his door step, but it pales in comparison to what he has lost over the years. Dozens of players to privates and even girls on team USA. A lot of Blakes roster is from Edina..UGH would they be good.

Wayzata has lost several Miss Hockey's such as Chute and Camoranesi and dozens more. EP has been decimated losing Bullock, Lund, Burke, etc..etc just in the past 2 years. Without a doubt these schools would have more banners if they did not lose these kids to privates.

HOWEVER...is the solution to stockpile 5 great public schools, and bury the remaining publics and privates? I don't think so. As silly as it sounds, I think the privates are actually balancing the competition in the cities not hurting it. Yes the privates are hot right now, but as with everything there is eb and flow and times will change. And last, if we banned these private demons from our (public) home grown country club, where do you think these kids would start showing up? Edina, Tonka, Stillwater, Blaine, etc.

Good for Ej for not whining and acting out what he feels is right! HM has cost my daughter a State Championship and possibly two if we're blessed. But I for one would like to hop in the ring and take a swing rather than have the belt handed to me! The Championship last year was a great game and HM was deserving!

With all that said, the privates are fine...but yes they all should be AA with the option to petition to play down to A.
Hats off to tonka taking a stance if they truly have. Personally I think all these teams are afraid to lose to a class A team versus trying to penalize them. I would prefer to see these privates all play up like Hill does. Instead of trying to dominate the Class A tourney like what is happening now. Their rosters and results show they can compete very easily. Remember there is zero checking in the girls game, so this makes it very easy to compete with the bigger schools, especially when you have a couple of ringers who will just take the puck coast to coast and score. That would never happen on the boys side. Or be able to have the success with one - half lines and three D.

The same issue that plagued St Thomas for years is the same issue plaguing the girls side now with Breck and Blake. If you have rosters with players who recently participated in USA hockey tourney's, why the heck are you playing single A? If Breck and Blake moved up the big five can compete for the metro wide bragging rights which I am sure if you asked the girls, they would prefer. Otherwise they would not have schedules dominated with AA opponents so they can have the best of both worlds. But at the end of the year still call themselves Champions by winning the Class A tourney.

As I stated in a earlier post, we all know recruiting just doesn't happen at Blake or Breck with generous financial aid packages for those skilled enough to command one... Recruiting and move-ins happen at the big 5 too. Is this a by-product from all the political summer teams girls play on together and then decide to play at certain schools? Even with tonka, I think he has only lost one player that currently plays at Breck and your mention to USA hockey. But he captured two move-ins (without knowing the stats - could be wrong) who score 95% of their team's goals this year. If these two were not on his team, I do not think they would be having the same success. So the cupboard is not bare for him either or their program. He should just go ahead and play them unless he is afraid of losing to a stocked Class A team. I appreciate his stance, but this appears to be "calling the kettle black" when he has received the same benefits of coaching at a school/program where kids come to play hockey, recruited or not.

Leave the Class A tourney for the Hibbings or TRFs of the world, where it actually means something to the community.

These are some of the key reasons why in five years you will have a major decline except for the five metro programs who will always be the haves. Is the girl's game even part of Hockey Day MN this year? That says a lot where the game is headed and by the time MSHSL reacts, it will be too late.
Well I can't say I did not see that coming, but really the "have and have nots"? The "AAA programs"? "The people in the know"? Ick! I am humored and saddened by your ignorance. But, just watch the news and I see 50 of you every night.

Ej's stance on privates is not a maybe but fact.

Afraid to play A's? The last time we played A's in a sanctioned game we beat Blake 7-1 and 4-2 in the last game of the year. Both those years Blake were State Champs in A. And we still play Warroad. So your fear of A's must lie in the loins of your program.

Breck does not have 1 but 2 (3 this year and last) girls from Tonka and that does not include BSM, Holy Family and Blake.

I have one of those political summer teams. We recruit kids and cut parents so you would be out!

One and half lines and 3 D? We have Hudl, I would bet almost every team we have played this year has gone shorter than us, so if you would like to sit down and watch.. PM me, rather than argue with you I will just show you. But you have to promise me you won't complain about us editing the tapes a little (us big wigs have people)

It is not the "pot calling the kettle black", as I stated above, Ej has had a couple girls come in but I can assure you the numbers he loses far out weighs the numbers he gained. And he has only had one "transfer" since I've been here in 4 1/2 years. Unless, under your parameters on my 13 year old daughter that moved here when my wife got transferred. (I will double check the MSHL rules and see what there rules are on a 4'4", 80 pd, 13 year old still in Jr high falls under)

Leave the the A tourney for Hibbing and TRF's where it means something? I think all hockey parents want it. Being a hockey parent is a thankless, expensive, time consuming and WONDERFUL thing. And anyone that stays the course through high school I would bet it means a lot!

And last..the people in "the know"? I know a lot and I mean a lot of girls state and nation wide who have moved around, showed up at "different" high schools. 95% of them you never hear about, why, because if the don't have so called "success" nobody cares. Do you care about the Ok player that illegally moves from Cambridge to Princeton after you drub Princeton 10-0? Of course you don't!

After 4 years I have figured it out! We just need to get rid of "A" and "AA" and have 2 tiers. One for the "Haves" and one for the "Have Nots". I will leave that up to the Great one to decide who is in each. (Fyi, I think I have like $8 dollars in my wallet if it matters) Peace!

Oh sorry one more thing..did I just get reeled in on my own lure? Perhaps it is I who is the biggest fish?? :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops:
Ok step back, please climb back off the edge, it will all be ok when you wake up.

Just a little secret, my daughter was actually at one of the B's, made it on her own as a walk on in college, but hockey was not the reason for the school. It was the great nursing program they offered and after 2 years decided enough was enough as it was hard to juggle both the academics and sport. Did we lose to tonka yes and it was completely ok, in fact lost 5-2, 5-1, and 7-1. And our best player then happens to be the same player scoring all the goals for a very big Univ program. Did we play one and half lines, absolutely. Was this right, no and always did bug me. Back then we probably played max 5 AA schools can't remember, and some of these were due to being in the Edina tourney. We also got thumped by Warroad 12-3, all ok. But like anything, times have changed and time for them to move up and leave the Class A tourney to the smaller schools. The best thing we did was pull our daughter at U12 when the wackos really started to show up during the summer and gave her some alpine lessons that seem to be going just fine. Sounds like you may be one of those wackos with your recruited summer team.

I am not sure what got you going and your hair up in a tizzy with the one and half line comment and three D, that was not directed at you or your team. I have no idea how many lines you have I would assume four because your numbers can support that depth and you have some easy games.

So yes ( I am biting your lure) I saw firsthand the small private setups and recruitments between the B & Bs. And from what I see now, it is only worse and why they should both move up. We did not have this issue when we played our pond hockey on the river, with the ultimate goal of getting to St Paul to play in the clear boards, what a treat.

So please step back, get off the ledge, it will be ok, no one was bashing your beloved hornets, but after your confession, maybe they will. MAHALO!
Ledge? Life is good! Hornets? Now I'm bored!

thegreatone99
Posts: 172
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2016 11:45 am

Post by thegreatone99 » Tue Jan 26, 2016 4:16 pm

36Guy wrote:
thegreatone99 wrote:
36Guy wrote:
thegreatone99 wrote:
36Guy wrote:One solution is to do what Ej at Minnetonka has done. He has removed all private schools from his schedule and will not play them in the future. I have mixed emotions because my daughter has to miss the opportunity to play some great teams. I have not yet decided how I feel about it, but, I do appreciate the fact that he took a stance and acted on it.

Yes, a few unexpected players have crossed his door step, but it pales in comparison to what he has lost over the years. Dozens of players to privates and even girls on team USA. A lot of Blakes roster is from Edina..UGH would they be good.

Wayzata has lost several Miss Hockey's such as Chute and Camoranesi and dozens more. EP has been decimated losing Bullock, Lund, Burke, etc..etc just in the past 2 years. Without a doubt these schools would have more banners if they did not lose these kids to privates.

HOWEVER...is the solution to stockpile 5 great public schools, and bury the remaining publics and privates? I don't think so. As silly as it sounds, I think the privates are actually balancing the competition in the cities not hurting it. Yes the privates are hot right now, but as with everything there is eb and flow and times will change. And last, if we banned these private demons from our (public) home grown country club, where do you think these kids would start showing up? Edina, Tonka, Stillwater, Blaine, etc.

Good for Ej for not whining and acting out what he feels is right! HM has cost my daughter a State Championship and possibly two if we're blessed. But I for one would like to hop in the ring and take a swing rather than have the belt handed to me! The Championship last year was a great game and HM was deserving!

With all that said, the privates are fine...but yes they all should be AA with the option to petition to play down to A.
Hats off to tonka taking a stance if they truly have. Personally I think all these teams are afraid to lose to a class A team versus trying to penalize them. I would prefer to see these privates all play up like Hill does. Instead of trying to dominate the Class A tourney like what is happening now. Their rosters and results show they can compete very easily. Remember there is zero checking in the girls game, so this makes it very easy to compete with the bigger schools, especially when you have a couple of ringers who will just take the puck coast to coast and score. That would never happen on the boys side. Or be able to have the success with one - half lines and three D.

The same issue that plagued St Thomas for years is the same issue plaguing the girls side now with Breck and Blake. If you have rosters with players who recently participated in USA hockey tourney's, why the heck are you playing single A? If Breck and Blake moved up the big five can compete for the metro wide bragging rights which I am sure if you asked the girls, they would prefer. Otherwise they would not have schedules dominated with AA opponents so they can have the best of both worlds. But at the end of the year still call themselves Champions by winning the Class A tourney.

As I stated in a earlier post, we all know recruiting just doesn't happen at Blake or Breck with generous financial aid packages for those skilled enough to command one... Recruiting and move-ins happen at the big 5 too. Is this a by-product from all the political summer teams girls play on together and then decide to play at certain schools? Even with tonka, I think he has only lost one player that currently plays at Breck and your mention to USA hockey. But he captured two move-ins (without knowing the stats - could be wrong) who score 95% of their team's goals this year. If these two were not on his team, I do not think they would be having the same success. So the cupboard is not bare for him either or their program. He should just go ahead and play them unless he is afraid of losing to a stocked Class A team. I appreciate his stance, but this appears to be "calling the kettle black" when he has received the same benefits of coaching at a school/program where kids come to play hockey, recruited or not.

Leave the Class A tourney for the Hibbings or TRFs of the world, where it actually means something to the community.

These are some of the key reasons why in five years you will have a major decline except for the five metro programs who will always be the haves. Is the girl's game even part of Hockey Day MN this year? That says a lot where the game is headed and by the time MSHSL reacts, it will be too late.
Well I can't say I did not see that coming, but really the "have and have nots"? The "AAA programs"? "The people in the know"? Ick! I am humored and saddened by your ignorance. But, just watch the news and I see 50 of you every night.

Ej's stance on privates is not a maybe but fact.

Afraid to play A's? The last time we played A's in a sanctioned game we beat Blake 7-1 and 4-2 in the last game of the year. Both those years Blake were State Champs in A. And we still play Warroad. So your fear of A's must lie in the loins of your program.

Breck does not have 1 but 2 (3 this year and last) girls from Tonka and that does not include BSM, Holy Family and Blake.

I have one of those political summer teams. We recruit kids and cut parents so you would be out!

One and half lines and 3 D? We have Hudl, I would bet almost every team we have played this year has gone shorter than us, so if you would like to sit down and watch.. PM me, rather than argue with you I will just show you. But you have to promise me you won't complain about us editing the tapes a little (us big wigs have people)

It is not the "pot calling the kettle black", as I stated above, Ej has had a couple girls come in but I can assure you the numbers he loses far out weighs the numbers he gained. And he has only had one "transfer" since I've been here in 4 1/2 years. Unless, under your parameters on my 13 year old daughter that moved here when my wife got transferred. (I will double check the MSHL rules and see what there rules are on a 4'4", 80 pd, 13 year old still in Jr high falls under)

Leave the the A tourney for Hibbing and TRF's where it means something? I think all hockey parents want it. Being a hockey parent is a thankless, expensive, time consuming and WONDERFUL thing. And anyone that stays the course through high school I would bet it means a lot!

And last..the people in "the know"? I know a lot and I mean a lot of girls state and nation wide who have moved around, showed up at "different" high schools. 95% of them you never hear about, why, because if the don't have so called "success" nobody cares. Do you care about the Ok player that illegally moves from Cambridge to Princeton after you drub Princeton 10-0? Of course you don't!

After 4 years I have figured it out! We just need to get rid of "A" and "AA" and have 2 tiers. One for the "Haves" and one for the "Have Nots". I will leave that up to the Great one to decide who is in each. (Fyi, I think I have like $8 dollars in my wallet if it matters) Peace!

Oh sorry one more thing..did I just get reeled in on my own lure? Perhaps it is I who is the biggest fish?? :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops:
Ok step back, please climb back off the edge, it will all be ok when you wake up.

Just a little secret, my daughter was actually at one of the B's, made it on her own as a walk on in college, but hockey was not the reason for the school. It was the great nursing program they offered and after 2 years decided enough was enough as it was hard to juggle both the academics and sport. Did we lose to tonka yes and it was completely ok, in fact lost 5-2, 5-1, and 7-1. And our best player then happens to be the same player scoring all the goals for a very big Univ program. Did we play one and half lines, absolutely. Was this right, no and always did bug me. Back then we probably played max 5 AA schools can't remember, and some of these were due to being in the Edina tourney. We also got thumped by Warroad 12-3, all ok. But like anything, times have changed and time for them to move up and leave the Class A tourney to the smaller schools. The best thing we did was pull our daughter at U12 when the wackos really started to show up during the summer and gave her some alpine lessons that seem to be going just fine. Sounds like you may be one of those wackos with your recruited summer team.

I am not sure what got you going and your hair up in a tizzy with the one and half line comment and three D, that was not directed at you or your team. I have no idea how many lines you have I would assume four because your numbers can support that depth and you have some easy games.

So yes ( I am biting your lure) I saw firsthand the small private setups and recruitments between the B & Bs. And from what I see now, it is only worse and why they should both move up. We did not have this issue when we played our pond hockey on the river, with the ultimate goal of getting to St Paul to play in the clear boards, what a treat.

So please step back, get off the ledge, it will be ok, no one was bashing your beloved hornets, but after your confession, maybe they will. MAHALO!
Ledge? Life is good! Hornets? Now I'm bored!
You are right, sorry must have been a freudian slip since you sound exactly like all the transplant edina parents at B. It has been awhile since we last played since you are boycotting us, but are all the tonka parents like you?

36Guy
Posts: 384
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2011 4:14 pm

Post by 36Guy » Wed Jan 27, 2016 1:43 am

thegreatone99 wrote:
36Guy wrote:
thegreatone99 wrote:
36Guy wrote:
thegreatone99 wrote:
36Guy wrote:One solution is to do what Ej at Minnetonka has done. He has removed all private schools from his schedule and will not play them in the future. I have mixed emotions because my daughter has to miss the opportunity to play some great teams. I have not yet decided how I feel about it, but, I do appreciate the fact that he took a stance and acted on it.

Yes, a few unexpected players have crossed his door step, but it pales in comparison to what he has lost over the years. Dozens of players to privates and even girls on team USA. A lot of Blakes roster is from Edina..UGH would they be good.

Wayzata has lost several Miss Hockey's such as Chute and Camoranesi and dozens more. EP has been decimated losing Bullock, Lund, Burke, etc..etc just in the past 2 years. Without a doubt these schools would have more banners if they did not lose these kids to privates.

HOWEVER...is the solution to stockpile 5 great public schools, and bury the remaining publics and privates? I don't think so. As silly as it sounds, I think the privates are actually balancing the competition in the cities not hurting it. Yes the privates are hot right now, but as with everything there is eb and flow and times will change. And last, if we banned these private demons from our (public) home grown country club, where do you think these kids would start showing up? Edina, Tonka, Stillwater, Blaine, etc.

Good for Ej for not whining and acting out what he feels is right! HM has cost my daughter a State Championship and possibly two if we're blessed. But I for one would like to hop in the ring and take a swing rather than have the belt handed to me! The Championship last year was a great game and HM was deserving!

With all that said, the privates are fine...but yes they all should be AA with the option to petition to play down to A.
Hats off to tonka taking a stance if they truly have. Personally I think all these teams are afraid to lose to a class A team versus trying to penalize them. I would prefer to see these privates all play up like Hill does. Instead of trying to dominate the Class A tourney like what is happening now. Their rosters and results show they can compete very easily. Remember there is zero checking in the girls game, so this makes it very easy to compete with the bigger schools, especially when you have a couple of ringers who will just take the puck coast to coast and score. That would never happen on the boys side. Or be able to have the success with one - half lines and three D.

The same issue that plagued St Thomas for years is the same issue plaguing the girls side now with Breck and Blake. If you have rosters with players who recently participated in USA hockey tourney's, why the heck are you playing single A? If Breck and Blake moved up the big five can compete for the metro wide bragging rights which I am sure if you asked the girls, they would prefer. Otherwise they would not have schedules dominated with AA opponents so they can have the best of both worlds. But at the end of the year still call themselves Champions by winning the Class A tourney.

As I stated in a earlier post, we all know recruiting just doesn't happen at Blake or Breck with generous financial aid packages for those skilled enough to command one... Recruiting and move-ins happen at the big 5 too. Is this a by-product from all the political summer teams girls play on together and then decide to play at certain schools? Even with tonka, I think he has only lost one player that currently plays at Breck and your mention to USA hockey. But he captured two move-ins (without knowing the stats - could be wrong) who score 95% of their team's goals this year. If these two were not on his team, I do not think they would be having the same success. So the cupboard is not bare for him either or their program. He should just go ahead and play them unless he is afraid of losing to a stocked Class A team. I appreciate his stance, but this appears to be "calling the kettle black" when he has received the same benefits of coaching at a school/program where kids come to play hockey, recruited or not.

Leave the Class A tourney for the Hibbings or TRFs of the world, where it actually means something to the community.

These are some of the key reasons why in five years you will have a major decline except for the five metro programs who will always be the haves. Is the girl's game even part of Hockey Day MN this year? That says a lot where the game is headed and by the time MSHSL reacts, it will be too late.
Well I can't say I did not see that coming, but really the "have and have nots"? The "AAA programs"? "The people in the know"? Ick! I am humored and saddened by your ignorance. But, just watch the news and I see 50 of you every night.

Ej's stance on privates is not a maybe but fact.

Afraid to play A's? The last time we played A's in a sanctioned game we beat Blake 7-1 and 4-2 in the last game of the year. Both those years Blake were State Champs in A. And we still play Warroad. So your fear of A's must lie in the loins of your program.

Breck does not have 1 but 2 (3 this year and last) girls from Tonka and that does not include BSM, Holy Family and Blake.

I have one of those political summer teams. We recruit kids and cut parents so you would be out!

One and half lines and 3 D? We have Hudl, I would bet almost every team we have played this year has gone shorter than us, so if you would like to sit down and watch.. PM me, rather than argue with you I will just show you. But you have to promise me you won't complain about us editing the tapes a little (us big wigs have people)

It is not the "pot calling the kettle black", as I stated above, Ej has had a couple girls come in but I can assure you the numbers he loses far out weighs the numbers he gained. And he has only had one "transfer" since I've been here in 4 1/2 years. Unless, under your parameters on my 13 year old daughter that moved here when my wife got transferred. (I will double check the MSHL rules and see what there rules are on a 4'4", 80 pd, 13 year old still in Jr high falls under)

Leave the the A tourney for Hibbing and TRF's where it means something? I think all hockey parents want it. Being a hockey parent is a thankless, expensive, time consuming and WONDERFUL thing. And anyone that stays the course through high school I would bet it means a lot!

And last..the people in "the know"? I know a lot and I mean a lot of girls state and nation wide who have moved around, showed up at "different" high schools. 95% of them you never hear about, why, because if the don't have so called "success" nobody cares. Do you care about the Ok player that illegally moves from Cambridge to Princeton after you drub Princeton 10-0? Of course you don't!

After 4 years I have figured it out! We just need to get rid of "A" and "AA" and have 2 tiers. One for the "Haves" and one for the "Have Nots". I will leave that up to the Great one to decide who is in each. (Fyi, I think I have like $8 dollars in my wallet if it matters) Peace!

Oh sorry one more thing..did I just get reeled in on my own lure? Perhaps it is I who is the biggest fish?? :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops:
Ok step back, please climb back off the edge, it will all be ok when you wake up.

Just a little secret, my daughter was actually at one of the B's, made it on her own as a walk on in college, but hockey was not the reason for the school. It was the great nursing program they offered and after 2 years decided enough was enough as it was hard to juggle both the academics and sport. Did we lose to tonka yes and it was completely ok, in fact lost 5-2, 5-1, and 7-1. And our best player then happens to be the same player scoring all the goals for a very big Univ program. Did we play one and half lines, absolutely. Was this right, no and always did bug me. Back then we probably played max 5 AA schools can't remember, and some of these were due to being in the Edina tourney. We also got thumped by Warroad 12-3, all ok. But like anything, times have changed and time for them to move up and leave the Class A tourney to the smaller schools. The best thing we did was pull our daughter at U12 when the wackos really started to show up during the summer and gave her some alpine lessons that seem to be going just fine. Sounds like you may be one of those wackos with your recruited summer team.

I am not sure what got you going and your hair up in a tizzy with the one and half line comment and three D, that was not directed at you or your team. I have no idea how many lines you have I would assume four because your numbers can support that depth and you have some easy games.

So yes ( I am biting your lure) I saw firsthand the small private setups and recruitments between the B & Bs. And from what I see now, it is only worse and why they should both move up. We did not have this issue when we played our pond hockey on the river, with the ultimate goal of getting to St Paul to play in the clear boards, what a treat.

So please step back, get off the ledge, it will be ok, no one was bashing your beloved hornets, but after your confession, maybe they will. MAHALO!
Ledge? Life is good! Hornets? Now I'm bored!
You are right, sorry must have been a freudian slip since you sound exactly like all the transplant edina parents at B. It has been awhile since we last played since you are boycotting us, but are all the tonka parents like you?
No most of them have money! So you hate Edina and Tonka parents but you go to a private school? I can here pepperpot laughing at us all the way from here and if you listen carefully you can probably hear the Wolman howling!

thegreatone99
Posts: 172
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2016 11:45 am

Post by thegreatone99 » Wed Jan 27, 2016 2:16 am

36Guy wrote:
thegreatone99 wrote:
36Guy wrote:
thegreatone99 wrote:
36Guy wrote:
thegreatone99 wrote:
36Guy wrote:One solution is to do what Ej at Minnetonka has done. He has removed all private schools from his schedule and will not play them in the future. I have mixed emotions because my daughter has to miss the opportunity to play some great teams. I have not yet decided how I feel about it, but, I do appreciate the fact that he took a stance and acted on it.

Yes, a few unexpected players have crossed his door step, but it pales in comparison to what he has lost over the years. Dozens of players to privates and even girls on team USA. A lot of Blakes roster is from Edina..UGH would they be good.

Wayzata has lost several Miss Hockey's such as Chute and Camoranesi and dozens more. EP has been decimated losing Bullock, Lund, Burke, etc..etc just in the past 2 years. Without a doubt these schools would have more banners if they did not lose these kids to privates.

HOWEVER...is the solution to stockpile 5 great public schools, and bury the remaining publics and privates? I don't think so. As silly as it sounds, I think the privates are actually balancing the competition in the cities not hurting it. Yes the privates are hot right now, but as with everything there is eb and flow and times will change. And last, if we banned these private demons from our (public) home grown country club, where do you think these kids would start showing up? Edina, Tonka, Stillwater, Blaine, etc.

Good for Ej for not whining and acting out what he feels is right! HM has cost my daughter a State Championship and possibly two if we're blessed. But I for one would like to hop in the ring and take a swing rather than have the belt handed to me! The Championship last year was a great game and HM was deserving!

With all that said, the privates are fine...but yes they all should be AA with the option to petition to play down to A.
Hats off to tonka taking a stance if they truly have. Personally I think all these teams are afraid to lose to a class A team versus trying to penalize them. I would prefer to see these privates all play up like Hill does. Instead of trying to dominate the Class A tourney like what is happening now. Their rosters and results show they can compete very easily. Remember there is zero checking in the girls game, so this makes it very easy to compete with the bigger schools, especially when you have a couple of ringers who will just take the puck coast to coast and score. That would never happen on the boys side. Or be able to have the success with one - half lines and three D.

The same issue that plagued St Thomas for years is the same issue plaguing the girls side now with Breck and Blake. If you have rosters with players who recently participated in USA hockey tourney's, why the heck are you playing single A? If Breck and Blake moved up the big five can compete for the metro wide bragging rights which I am sure if you asked the girls, they would prefer. Otherwise they would not have schedules dominated with AA opponents so they can have the best of both worlds. But at the end of the year still call themselves Champions by winning the Class A tourney.

As I stated in a earlier post, we all know recruiting just doesn't happen at Blake or Breck with generous financial aid packages for those skilled enough to command one... Recruiting and move-ins happen at the big 5 too. Is this a by-product from all the political summer teams girls play on together and then decide to play at certain schools? Even with tonka, I think he has only lost one player that currently plays at Breck and your mention to USA hockey. But he captured two move-ins (without knowing the stats - could be wrong) who score 95% of their team's goals this year. If these two were not on his team, I do not think they would be having the same success. So the cupboard is not bare for him either or their program. He should just go ahead and play them unless he is afraid of losing to a stocked Class A team. I appreciate his stance, but this appears to be "calling the kettle black" when he has received the same benefits of coaching at a school/program where kids come to play hockey, recruited or not.

Leave the Class A tourney for the Hibbings or TRFs of the world, where it actually means something to the community.

These are some of the key reasons why in five years you will have a major decline except for the five metro programs who will always be the haves. Is the girl's game even part of Hockey Day MN this year? That says a lot where the game is headed and by the time MSHSL reacts, it will be too late.
Well I can't say I did not see that coming, but really the "have and have nots"? The "AAA programs"? "The people in the know"? Ick! I am humored and saddened by your ignorance. But, just watch the news and I see 50 of you every night.

Ej's stance on privates is not a maybe but fact.

Afraid to play A's? The last time we played A's in a sanctioned game we beat Blake 7-1 and 4-2 in the last game of the year. Both those years Blake were State Champs in A. And we still play Warroad. So your fear of A's must lie in the loins of your program.

Breck does not have 1 but 2 (3 this year and last) girls from Tonka and that does not include BSM, Holy Family and Blake.

I have one of those political summer teams. We recruit kids and cut parents so you would be out!

One and half lines and 3 D? We have Hudl, I would bet almost every team we have played this year has gone shorter than us, so if you would like to sit down and watch.. PM me, rather than argue with you I will just show you. But you have to promise me you won't complain about us editing the tapes a little (us big wigs have people)

It is not the "pot calling the kettle black", as I stated above, Ej has had a couple girls come in but I can assure you the numbers he loses far out weighs the numbers he gained. And he has only had one "transfer" since I've been here in 4 1/2 years. Unless, under your parameters on my 13 year old daughter that moved here when my wife got transferred. (I will double check the MSHL rules and see what there rules are on a 4'4", 80 pd, 13 year old still in Jr high falls under)

Leave the the A tourney for Hibbing and TRF's where it means something? I think all hockey parents want it. Being a hockey parent is a thankless, expensive, time consuming and WONDERFUL thing. And anyone that stays the course through high school I would bet it means a lot!

And last..the people in "the know"? I know a lot and I mean a lot of girls state and nation wide who have moved around, showed up at "different" high schools. 95% of them you never hear about, why, because if the don't have so called "success" nobody cares. Do you care about the Ok player that illegally moves from Cambridge to Princeton after you drub Princeton 10-0? Of course you don't!

After 4 years I have figured it out! We just need to get rid of "A" and "AA" and have 2 tiers. One for the "Haves" and one for the "Have Nots". I will leave that up to the Great one to decide who is in each. (Fyi, I think I have like $8 dollars in my wallet if it matters) Peace!

Oh sorry one more thing..did I just get reeled in on my own lure? Perhaps it is I who is the biggest fish?? :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops:
Ok step back, please climb back off the edge, it will all be ok when you wake up.

Just a little secret, my daughter was actually at one of the B's, made it on her own as a walk on in college, but hockey was not the reason for the school. It was the great nursing program they offered and after 2 years decided enough was enough as it was hard to juggle both the academics and sport. Did we lose to tonka yes and it was completely ok, in fact lost 5-2, 5-1, and 7-1. And our best player then happens to be the same player scoring all the goals for a very big Univ program. Did we play one and half lines, absolutely. Was this right, no and always did bug me. Back then we probably played max 5 AA schools can't remember, and some of these were due to being in the Edina tourney. We also got thumped by Warroad 12-3, all ok. But like anything, times have changed and time for them to move up and leave the Class A tourney to the smaller schools. The best thing we did was pull our daughter at U12 when the wackos really started to show up during the summer and gave her some alpine lessons that seem to be going just fine. Sounds like you may be one of those wackos with your recruited summer team.

I am not sure what got you going and your hair up in a tizzy with the one and half line comment and three D, that was not directed at you or your team. I have no idea how many lines you have I would assume four because your numbers can support that depth and you have some easy games.

So yes ( I am biting your lure) I saw firsthand the small private setups and recruitments between the B & Bs. And from what I see now, it is only worse and why they should both move up. We did not have this issue when we played our pond hockey on the river, with the ultimate goal of getting to St Paul to play in the clear boards, what a treat.

So please step back, get off the ledge, it will be ok, no one was bashing your beloved hornets, but after your confession, maybe they will. MAHALO!
Ledge? Life is good! Hornets? Now I'm bored!
You are right, sorry must have been a freudian slip since you sound exactly like all the transplant edina parents at B. It has been awhile since we last played since you are boycotting us, but are all the tonka parents like you?
No most of them have money! So you hate Edina and Tonka parents but you go to a private school? I can here pepperpot laughing at us all the way from here and if you listen carefully you can probably hear the Wolman howling!
Hate is a pretty strong word, it is more like dislike for those who have to force their will on others and hear their voice echo in the halls of the X. The thread was going fine until you showed up spewing your tonka blah blah blah. I did not see where tonka was getting attacked in any of the posts, but you felt your need to be the watchdog. tonka actually has a very nice team and I believe one of the favs to win the whole thing this year. It would be best for you to leave it at that and enjoy your ride. You lost last year, so maybe the girls can capture it this year. Good luck

This was about two schools that should move up, and the decline of girls hockey which does not benefit having two, maybe three powerhouse recruited programs if you put SPU in the mix. No different than St Thomas and the boys side. If we have to watch another title captured by a B school, this does nothing to further the girls game.

jg2112
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Post by jg2112 » Wed Jan 27, 2016 2:46 am

thegreatone99 wrote:
36Guy wrote:
thegreatone99 wrote:
36Guy wrote:
thegreatone99 wrote:
36Guy wrote:
thegreatone99 wrote:
36Guy wrote: Hate is a pretty strong word, it is more like dislike for those who have to force their will on others and hear their voice echo in the halls of the X. The thread was going fine until you showed up spewing your tonka blah blah blah. I did not see where tonka was getting attacked in any of the posts, but you felt your need to be the watchdog. tonka actually has a very nice team and I believe one of the favs to win the whole thing this year. It would be best for you to leave it at that and enjoy your ride. You lost last year, so maybe the girls can capture it this year. Good luck

This was about two schools that should move up, and the decline of girls hockey which does not benefit having two, maybe three powerhouse recruited programs if you put SPU in the mix. No different than St Thomas and the boys side. If we have to watch another title captured by a B school, this does nothing to further the girls game.
Maybe Blake or Breck winning the state title would be the impetus for their mandated moves up to AA. Something positive could come out of it.

Nevertoomuchhockey
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Post by Nevertoomuchhockey » Wed Jan 27, 2016 2:51 am

from 99:

"force their will on others..."

Wait, what?

36Guy
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Post by 36Guy » Wed Jan 27, 2016 3:19 am

thegreateone99 wrote:
If we have to watch another title captured by a B school, this does nothing to further the girls game.[/quote]

Wow! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrWoG8IckyE

massalsa
Posts: 476
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Any positives from "the privates" in girls hockey?

Post by massalsa » Wed Jan 27, 2016 4:02 am

Now that EVERYONE has stated why B/B/SPU should move up, and I personally believe that many points in this thread are good ones...

Any GOOD things that have occurred from having some strong privates?

p.s. Feel free to quote part of someone's comment rather than quoting the last 10 comments on the last 10 comments or the entire thread!

MNHockeyFan
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Re: Any positives from "the privates" in girls hoc

Post by MNHockeyFan » Wed Jan 27, 2016 4:20 am

massalsa wrote:Any GOOD things that have occurred from having some strong privates?
As 36Guy noted above it does spread the talent out, mostly in the western suburbs. Without the high level talent moving to the "B and B's", schools like Edina, Tonka and EP would be stronger than they are already. So there's that.

massalsa
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Post by massalsa » Wed Jan 27, 2016 4:47 am

And I think that there are kids that would NOT have made those stronger western suburb programs had those kids NOT gone private. I am guessing that the same might be said on the east side with Cretin/Hill/SPU.

Also some of those kids that are at B/B/SPU/Hill/other have been private all along and just played association at Edina/Tonka/Mpls/Wayzata/other.

Many of those kids that left those programs as MS/JH or 7th/8th/9th graders may not have been able to even try out for their respective HS programs. I am pretty sure that is the case in Wayzata & Tonka.

thegreatone99
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Post by thegreatone99 » Wed Jan 27, 2016 6:16 am

The point is getting missed. Yes the B & B schools as well as others provide the opportunity for girls to play that may not make their public school teams. That is great and will always exist regardless if they play Class A or AA. But this equates to a very small percentage of players on these teams. These teams are stocked with USA and Olympic Development players and have more D1 commits than most public teams. The players usually come from financial/family situations that allow them to train year around and participate with the best summer teams. This is not the case with a true smaller community based team. Does the iron range family with the taconite plant closing have the same resources to send their girls east for summer tournaments so they can be seen by college recruiters? You get my point.

Why was it in the old civic center, regardless of who they were playing, Jefferson, Edina East or West, if it was Roseau and the Brotens or the famed Halloween Machine of GR, the entire fan base except for one sliver was cheering their heads off for a Region 7 team to win. Still happens with Duluth East. Fan base is tired of seeing metro dominance in both classes.

All we are saying is move up B&B and leave the Class A tourney to the schools like Hibbing, TRF, Luverne where the selections of girls or the youth programs are not nearly as strong as the metro feeder programs that go or (shhh recruited) to the B&B schools. If this was not the case, why do these schools try so hard to schedule as many AA teams as possible?

If B&B wish to play the big schools so much, it is time to do it at tourney time. Watching one of these teams win by large margins during day one of the tourney does not promote girls hockey. The real Class A State Championship game will be played at Parade in the Region final between these two teams. At least one with eat the other before the tourney starts.

St Thomas finally caved into the pressure. No one respected St Thomas for consistently winning the Class A tourney. Their administration finally realized this and to help them recruit even better, the V boys (coaches) got their wish to move up. Maybe their sister coop school SPU should do the same and follow the boys lead. It's time for all of them to grow a pair and move up.

Nevertoomuchhockey
Posts: 1138
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Post by Nevertoomuchhockey » Wed Jan 27, 2016 8:25 am

thegreatone99 wrote:The point is getting missed. Yes the B & B schools as well as others provide the opportunity for girls to play that may not make their public school teams. That is great and will always exist regardless if they play Class A or AA. But this equates to a very small percentage of players on these teams. These teams are stocked with USA and Olympic Development players and have more D1 commits than most public teams. The players usually come from financial/family situations that allow them to train year around and participate with the best summer teams. This is not the case with a true smaller community based team. Does the iron range family with the taconite plant closing have the same resources to send their girls east for summer tournaments so they can be seen by college recruiters? You get my point.

Why was it in the old civic center, regardless of who they were playing, Jefferson, Edina East or West, if it was Roseau and the Brotens or the famed Halloween Machine of GR, the entire fan base except for one sliver was cheering their heads off for a Region 7 team to win. Still happens with Duluth East. Fan base is tired of seeing metro dominance in both classes.

All we are saying is move up B&B and leave the Class A tourney to the schools like Hibbing, TRF, Luverne where the selections of girls or the youth programs are not nearly as strong as the metro feeder programs that go or (shhh recruited) to the B&B schools. If this was not the case, why do these schools try so hard to schedule as many AA teams as possible?

If B&B wish to play the big schools so much, it is time to do it at tourney time. Watching one of these teams win by large margins during day one of the tourney does not promote girls hockey. The real Class A State Championship game will be played at Parade in the Region final between these two teams. At least one with eat the other before the tourney starts.

St Thomas finally caved into the pressure. No one respected St Thomas for consistently winning the Class A tourney. Their administration finally realized this and to help them recruit even better, the V boys (coaches) got their wish to move up. Maybe their sister coop school SPU should do the same and follow the boys lead. It's time for all of them to grow a pair and move up.
Massa's point was that some kids from the bigger publics get a chance for a varsity roster spot that would have otherwise gone to a girl who enrolled private, not that the private girls wouldn't have made it onto the public team they otherwise would have been playing for. I'm sure this goes both ways, but 99 your point has CLEARLY been from post one that the best players are leaving for greener B and B pastures, for a variety of political and economic reasons that don't include not making the home team.

Your fever for the iron range is maybe well intended but your facts are wrong. Both Warroad and Hermamtown took teams to Boston this year.

Still waiting to hear the elitist agenda my scholarship kid and I are supposed to be backing and forcing upon you... When exactly do I get to "force my will on others"?

And we are not missing your point. We disagree. All these pesky facts getting in the way of irrationality and emotion...!

You can keep telling your kid how badly she's been screwed over by an unjust MSHSL and all of us writing checks for championships, or recognize she's a kid, this is a game, and 99% are just doing the best we can without any ulterior motive to get one over on her or her team. If you really think kids will stop playing sports if they don't get a run at a trophy every year, I feel sorry for you.
Yawn.

Hard water fan
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Post by Hard water fan » Wed Jan 27, 2016 1:44 pm

My personal opinion is that we should not punish the private schools, but look at a solution which promotes and grows the game of girls hockey. The privates do play an important role and provide some opportunities for girls that they wouldn't get otherwise, which most importantly in my eyes, is playing with girls of a high level of talent. Truthfully, if a private is doing their job, they are attracting the best of the best, no matter where they are from. I would propose that all privates, including Shattuck, play in their own league. They have a playoff. Winner represents entry into a MSHSL championship between publics and privates. A and AA would have separate playoffs like present, but winners would also playoff against each other for the right to play for overall championship, and to represent Minnesota at nationals. This would create parity among the privates and among classes...

greybeard58
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Post by greybeard58 » Wed Jan 27, 2016 5:06 pm

The decline started a few years ago when HS coaches started putting 7th and 8th graders on their JV and thus diluting the competition in the 12u and 14u levels for Mn Hockey.

Also those camps run by High School coaches in the summer for training($) and somehow those who do not spend the fee find their way to the end of the bench.

Plain arrogance of some HS Coaches that rob the association teams for their jv with the argument they get better training. If that's the case, leave them to develop in the assn and develop what is already at the High School.

Be there to help the assn's with their training, in the end your high school program can be stronger. Help with recruiting of girls and boys players for the association that is in your high school attendance area. Without the strong numbers at the 8U and 10U it will be hard to survive.
Last edited by greybeard58 on Thu Jan 28, 2016 4:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

massalsa
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Post by massalsa » Wed Jan 27, 2016 5:47 pm

Hard water fan wrote:My personal opinion is that we should not punish the private schools, but look at a solution which promotes and grows the game of girls hockey. The privates do play an important role and provide some opportunities for girls that they wouldn't get otherwise, which most importantly in my eyes, is playing with girls of a high level of talent. Truthfully, if a private is doing their job, they are attracting the best of the best, no matter where they are from. I would propose that all privates, including Shattuck, play in their own league. They have a playoff. Winner represents entry into a MSHSL championship between publics and privates. A and AA would have separate playoffs like present, but winners would also playoff against each other for the right to play for overall championship, and to represent Minnesota at nationals. This would create parity among the privates and among classes...
I like a lot of these ideas...however if SSM wins the elite league almost every year they would probably smoke all comers from Hill to Tonka to Blake/Breck and would probably beat either of those combo teams...would be fun to watch.

SSM vs a Lake Conference all star team could be pretty good...

thegreatone99
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Post by thegreatone99 » Thu Jan 28, 2016 7:11 am

40% of the top ten ranked teams are privates, with 2 of them playing Class A. Take the top six and it becomes 50% private with 33% of them playing class A And people do not think this hurts the Class A tourney
Remove SPU and the next A teams in these rankings are not until you hit 19 (Warroad) and 31 (Proctor)

Supports what others have suggested, put all the privates in their own Region


cmon man


1 MN HS 1000.0000 Hill-Murray MnHSHL 0 AA
2 MN HS 999.4163 Blake MnHSHL 0 A
3 MN HS 999.3786 Blaine MnHSHL 0 AA
4 MN HS 999.2575 Minnetonka MnHSHL 0 AA
5 MN HS 999.2440 Edina MnHSHL 0 AA 2
6 MN HS 998.8593 Breck MnHSHL 0 A 2
7 MN HS 998.8569 MapleGrove MnHSHL 0 AA
8 MN HS 998.7048 EdenPrairie MnHSHL 0 AA
9 MN HS 998.1524 ElkRiver/Zimmerman MnHSHL 0
10 MN HS 997.9709 Cretin-DerhamHall MnHSHL 0

alcloseshaver
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Post by alcloseshaver » Thu Jan 28, 2016 9:06 am

Lot's of ideas being expressed here and some that make sense and are plausible. I don't have the answer but I know that there is very little chance of anything being implemented. The MSHSL is a voluntary, non-profit association of public and Private schools. Privates added in the mid 70's. Here is their mission statement " The MSHSL provides educational opportunities for students through athletics and provides leadership and support for member schools".
The league exists to provide COMPETIVE, EQUITABLE and UNIFORM opportunities for students to learn valuable lessons through athletics.
Not much chance for change from them. It is up to each school to move up in class. Section and state tournaments are just an extension of these philosophies. We need to ask if they are following their mission statement in the areas of competition, equity and uniformity.

itsfoilcoach
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Post by itsfoilcoach » Thu Jan 28, 2016 11:28 am

alcloseshaver wrote:Lot's of ideas being expressed here and some that make sense and are plausible. I don't have the answer but I know that there is very little chance of anything being implemented. The MSHSL is a voluntary, non-profit association of public and Private schools. Privates added in the mid 70's. Here is their mission statement " The MSHSL provides educational opportunities for students through athletics and provides leadership and support for member schools".
The league exists to provide COMPETIVE, EQUITABLE and UNIFORM opportunities for students to learn valuable lessons through athletics.
Not much chance for change from them. It is up to each school to move up in class. Section and state tournaments are just an extension of these philosophies. We need to ask if they are following their mission statement in the areas of competition, equity and uniformity.

Well I see the brackets are out for the sections for some. So not that I have a horse in this race, but I think SPU doesn't stand a chance against the teams in their bracket.

First round - Bye... I guess they had a good year in class A (again)

Second game against Simley or Henry Sibley power houses. ...Season over for SPU.

With a section like this they don't stand a chance. I'm sure MSHSL knows more than we do looking at this highly competitive playoff. Its going to be a tight one here.... Hold on to your mukluk boots, its going to be exciting!!

On a side note - If SPU gets to state you can by a book of game tickets for $92.00 and watch history in the making. If you ask me its money well spent to see 10 goal games, Its a spectators dream. I mean who wouldn't like to spend a $100.00 to see high scoring games, and to see these quality private school match ups. I think its very nice that those kids (privates) have an avenue along with their parents to compete against each other to see who got the biggest bang for their education bucks. I mean its good for hockey I say. Quality match ups from the first round on. Sure it maybe a little lopsided, but high scoring for sure.

...Cue the sarcasm horn.
...And yes I'm still going to the tourney to support this great sport regardless of some games that I'm sure will not be to close.
These girls deserve an audience who ever they play for.
Last edited by itsfoilcoach on Thu Jan 28, 2016 4:41 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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