Blake

[Lace'emUp]

If Edina still had all those players, they very well may have won the AA championship. But what if Steffen, Anderson, and Wemple decided to stay at Centennial and not go to Hill Murray? Same with Harris at Breck? What if they all stayed at Centennial and played with Hughes and Linser? Do they win the AA championship this year? So many "what ifs", not just for Edina or Centennial, but for many teams. Oh well, that's life and we just move on with the excitement of what next season will bring.

Think Minnetonka could have used Grace & Anna Zumwinkle in their game against Eden Prairie?

What if Eden Prairie had Bullock?

Exactly my point. So many "what ifs" to even start to compare and speculate upon.

[JohnnyBuck]

The "what ifs" are what summer and triple A hockey is for. An opportunity for some of the top talent play together. Not for an A program to attract those top players and then play down in competition.

[ghshockeyfan]

Keeping your studs in the game when the score is 8-0 to chase individual records is what is wrong with youth sports today. Enough said on that topic.

Does one throw their gloves and sticks in the air in celebration of an 8-0 win? One would think it is a bit anti climatic. As a parent or coach I'd want to move to the next challengs

I was watching closely to see how much those top players played in the third period. It didn't seem like they played nearly as much and near the end I thought I saw more of the entire team playing as opposed to the usual top players getting their standard ice time.

I don't believe Blake let the seniors play the last seconds of the game to chase the individual record. It just happened that way as a chance to break the record presented itself in those final few seconds. That final goal was a pretty nice shot against one of the better goalies in the state.

Any team likely is going to celebrate winning a state title by throwing their gloves and sticks in the air. I don't see the score being a factor in this action.

[Hard water fan]

In '99 Montana and Company was up big in the Super Bowl against Elway. It might even be the the widest margin of any SB. Anyway, they left Montana in and he threw his 5th touchdown, a record that still sits in the record book. I watched it, and it was fantastic. Nothing wrong with it at all IMO.

[JohnnyBuck]

In '99 Montana and Company was up big in the Super Bowl against Elway. It might even be the the widest margin of any SB. Anyway, they left Montana in and he threw his 5th touchdown, a record that still sits in the record book. I watched it, and it was fantastic. Nothing wrong with it at all IMO.

NFL compared to high school hockey. Quite the leap there Hard Water. I could see if the Denver Broncos decided to play in the CFL instead

[jg2112]

In '99 Montana and Company was up big in the Super Bowl against Elway. It might even be the the widest margin of any SB. Anyway, they left Montana in and he threw his 5th touchdown, a record that still sits in the record book. I watched it, and it was fantastic. Nothing wrong with it at all IMO.

Eh, that was 1989. Elway beat the Falcons in early 1999, after the Falcons, well, you know.....

[JohnnyBuck]

In '99 Montana and Company was up big in the Super Bowl against Elway. It might even be the the widest margin of any SB. Anyway, they left Montana in and he threw his 5th touchdown, a record that still sits in the record book. I watched it, and it was fantastic. Nothing wrong with it at all IMO.

Eh, that was 1989. Elway beat the Falcons in early 1999, after the Falcons, well, you know.....

Ouch! You just brought me back to a place that I thought was permanently removed from my memory Back to hockey................

[Hard water fan]

A little numbers dyslexia. I guess I was just happy for her and appreciated the chance to see some hockey history. Now back to football...

[sinbin]

And this thread was moving along so nicely until someone brought up '99.

[jg2112]

And this thread was moving along so nicely until someone brought up '99.

Sorry, I'll try to get it rolling again with a different question.

Is this an appropriate time for the MSHSL to go back to a single class for girls hockey? "State" could be 8 games on Wednesday, 4 on Thursday, 2 on Friday, and the title game on Saturday, along with consolation games filling in the remaining time on the 2nd, 3rd and 4th days.

Maybe games could be apportioned between the X and Ridder on Wednesday based upon teams' ticket sale efforts in the week prior to the event, with times and venues announced the Sunday night before the tourney starts.

[massalsa]

Keeping your studs in the game when the score is 8-0 to chase individual records is what is wrong with youth sports today. Enough said on that topic.

Does one throw their gloves and sticks in the air in celebration of an 8-0 win? One would think it is a bit anti climatic. As a parent or coach I'd want to move to the next challengs

I was watching closely to see how much those top players played in the third period. It didn't seem like they played nearly as much and near the end I thought I saw more of the entire team playing as opposed to the usual top players getting their standard ice time.

I don't believe Blake let the seniors play the last seconds of the game to chase the individual record. It just happened that way as a chance to break the record presented itself in those final few seconds. That final goal was a pretty nice shot against one of the better goalies in the state.

Any team likely is going to celebrate winning a state title by throwing their gloves and sticks in the air. I don't see the score being a factor in this action.

Attended both finals and recorded them both on DVR. Watched 2nd & 3rd period of Blake/SPU with my daughter last night. Blake had all 4 lines rolling and it appeared that the 4th line got more ice than the other lines that period (after getting virtually zero ice in periods 1 & 2). Even their PP/PK had 3rd and an occasional 4th liner on them. It looked like they played all 3 lines of D rolling the whole game.

Should they go to AA? Probably but apparently it is complicated. Should Breck go to AA? Probably.

Breck looks strong for next year but they will definitely miss their 2 Senior Goalie of the Year candidates. Zumwinkle & Breza are way good...they also have some supporting cast. The big question mark is how strong their goaltending will be. Word on the streets is that there are a couple of good 8th graders that are strongly considering making the move to Breck (or possibly Benilde?).

[Lace'emUp]

And this thread was moving along so nicely until someone brought up '99.

Sorry, I'll try to get it rolling again with a different question.

Is this an appropriate time for the MSHSL to go back to a single class for girls hockey? "State" could be 8 games on Wednesday, 4 on Thursday, 2 on Friday, and the title game on Saturday, along with consolation games filling in the remaining time on the 2nd, 3rd and 4th days.

Maybe games could be apportioned between the X and Ridder on Wednesday based upon teams' ticket sale efforts in the week prior to the event, with times and venues announced the Sunday night before the tourney starts.

From your proposal, would you leave the sections alone, with the 16 seeds coming from each of the single and double A section winners? If that's the case, and it happened this past year, AND they seeded based upon the overall KRACK rankings, the seedings would go like this (from the 2/13 rankings, not 2/20 final rankings):

UPPER BRACKET
1 Hill-Murray 4AA
16 Luverne 3A

8 St. Paul United 4A
9 Forest Lake 7AA

5 Eden Prairie 2AA
12 Sartell/Sauk Rapids 8AA

4 Edina 6AA
13 New Prague 2A

LOWER BRACKET
2 Blake 5A
15 Northfield 1A

7 Warroad 8A
10 Eastview 3AA

6 Lakeville South 1AA
11 Proctor/Hermantown 7A

3 Maple Grove 5AA
14 Alexandria 6A

[jg2112]

And this thread was moving along so nicely until someone brought up '99.

Sorry, I'll try to get it rolling again with a different question.

Is this an appropriate time for the MSHSL to go back to a single class for girls hockey? "State" could be 8 games on Wednesday, 4 on Thursday, 2 on Friday, and the title game on Saturday, along with consolation games filling in the remaining time on the 2nd, 3rd and 4th days.

Maybe games could be apportioned between the X and Ridder on Wednesday based upon teams' ticket sale efforts in the week prior to the event, with times and venues announced the Sunday night before the tourney starts.

From your proposal, would you leave the sections alone, with the 16 seeds coming from each of the single and double A section winners? If that's the case, and it happened this past year, AND they seeded based upon the overall KRACK rankings, the seedings would go like this (from the 2/13 rankings, not 2/20 final rankings):

UPPER BRACKET
1 Hill-Murray 4AA
16 Luverne 3A

8 St. Paul United 4A
9 Forest Lake 7AA

5 Eden Prairie 2AA
12 Sartell/Sauk Rapids 8AA

4 Edina 6AA
13 New Prague 2A

LOWER BRACKET
2 Blake 5A
15 Northfield 1A

7 Warroad 8A
10 Eastview 3AA

6 Lakeville South 1AA
11 Proctor/Hermantown 7A

3 Maple Grove 5AA
14 Alexandria 6A

You know, I didn't really know how to formulate it without the entire tournament turning into AA + the metro privates. I like your methodology.

I think a lot of those games would've been exciting, competitive games. Also, by doing it this way, we can get resolve the question of Blake/Breck/SPU moving up. They can stay at A due to their size, and still compete with the AA teams they are equipped to play against (as are P/H and Warroad).

[Lace'emUp]

Sorry, I'll try to get it rolling again with a different question.

Is this an appropriate time for the MSHSL to go back to a single class for girls hockey? "State" could be 8 games on Wednesday, 4 on Thursday, 2 on Friday, and the title game on Saturday, along with consolation games filling in the remaining time on the 2nd, 3rd and 4th days.

Maybe games could be apportioned between the X and Ridder on Wednesday based upon teams' ticket sale efforts in the week prior to the event, with times and venues announced the Sunday night before the tourney starts.

From your proposal, would you leave the sections alone, with the 16 seeds coming from each of the single and double A section winners? If that's the case, and it happened this past year, AND they seeded based upon the overall KRACK rankings, the seedings would go like this (from the 2/13 rankings, not 2/20 final rankings):

UPPER BRACKET
1 Hill-Murray 4AA
16 Luverne 3A

8 St. Paul United 4A
9 Forest Lake 7AA

5 Eden Prairie 2AA
12 Sartell/Sauk Rapids 8AA

4 Edina 6AA
13 New Prague 2A

LOWER BRACKET
2 Blake 5A
15 Northfield 1A

7 Warroad 8A
10 Eastview 3AA

6 Lakeville South 1AA
11 Proctor/Hermantown 7A

3 Maple Grove 5AA
14 Alexandria 6A

You know, I didn't really know how to formulate it without the entire tournament turning into AA + the metro privates. I like your methodology.

I think a lot of those games would've been exciting, competitive games. Also, by doing it this way, we can get resolve the question of Blake/Breck/SPU moving up. They can stay at A due to their size, and still compete with the AA teams they are equipped to play against (as are P/H and Warroad).

I agree!

[massalsa]

Very interesting idea(s).

In theory you could have the final A team be the class A champion or have a final game if both final "A" teams lose in the same round. Maybe there is a different way of doing that...

Sort of an NCAA Basketball tourney concept with a consolation bracket for first game losers and then a top 8 playoff from winners of the first game.

[u12dad]

Very interesting idea(s).

In theory you could have the final A team be the class A champion or have a final game if both final "A" teams lose in the same round. Maybe there is a different way of doing that...

Sort of an NCAA Basketball tourney concept with a consolation bracket for first game losers and then a top 8 playoff from winners of the first game.

It's a great idea, that is why it will never happen. The MSHSL would never allow common sense to prevail!

The other idea is to re-seed the last two remaining teams in each section 1-16. This would allow the strongest 8 teams from each class to play in the Tournament. I realize it is doesn't solve all problems, but creates a better chance of better state games.

[rwb1351]

I understand the obsession with getting the best teams into the tournament, but what happened to the love for the Cinderella Story?

You all sit around here and proclaim to know which teams are the "right" teams to make the tournament, but at the end of the day it's about performing in the last 6 games of the year. If you stumble, you're out. End of story.

[sinbin]

I understand the obsession with getting the best teams into the tournament, but what happened to the love for the Cinderella Story?

You all sit around here and proclaim to know which teams are the "right" teams to make the tournament, but at the end of the day it's about performing in the last 6 games of the year. If you stumble, you're out. End of story.

I love the Cinderella story as much as anyone. The problem is when you have highly seeded teams together in the same section (e.g., 3 consecutive years of #1 BSM vs. # 2 Tonka, Section 6 with 6 teams ranked in the top 10, etc.). Sorry, girls, by luck of the draw, you have very little chance to make it to State, even though you're ranked #7, you have to beat #1 and #3 just to make it to State. If you lose, then 5 teams ranked lower than you get to go. Or in this model, maybe 12 teams.

So, yes, if you stumble, you're out, but you're walking a tightrope, not on flat ground. I'm sure the MSHSL braintrust (oxymoron?) could develop a method with the best of both worlds - Cinderella opportunity, yet improved equity to recognize regular season performance.

[LZ94]

Why can't the girls go to Tier 1 and Tier 2 like the early 90's in boys?

Take your 120 teams and put them in 8 sections made up by geography (mshsl rules) and seed them all 1-15. Top 8 from every section goes into Tier 1 tournament. Seeds 9-15 in each section go to the Tier 2 tournament.

Naturally, the big schools and dominant privates would be in the Tier 1 tournament, and the Tier 2 tournament plays out for the smaller schools, or the schools that may be large but just aren't very good.

No more opt ups, if your'e good, you're up, if you're not, you're down.

Problem solved. Until the potential 8th seed throws a game to become the 9th seed.

[The Bone]

Tier I/Tier II was abysmal.
You had teams that won 5 or less games during the season making the "State Tourney"!
Some of the Tier II games were unwatchable!

[MNHockeyFan]

Tier I/Tier II was abysmal.
You had teams that won 5 or less games during the season making the "State Tourney"!
Some of the Tier II games were unwatchable!

If it would put an end to the constant complaining that "Team 'X' should opt up" it would be worth it!

[ghshockeyfan]

Tier I/Tier II was abysmal.
You had teams that won 5 or less games during the season making the "State Tourney"!
Some of the Tier II games were unwatchable!

If it would put an end to the constant complaining that "Team 'X' should opt up" it would be worth it!

I support this approach. Use QRF or LSQrank to seed or determine the top 64 (T1) as opposed to the remaining teams (T2). If they did it in 1990 they can do it in 2015.

Sure, the 65th team will be upset they missed the T1 sections, but were they really going to win the Class AA tourney anyway?

If it is really that bad, make the T2 a 4 section/team tourney and the T1 could have more than 8 teams I suppose, but I wouldn't go there...

[sinbin]

Why can't the girls go to Tier 1 and Tier 2 like the early 90's in boys?

Take your 120 teams and put them in 8 sections made up by geography (mshsl rules) and seed them all 1-15. Top 8 from every section goes into Tier 1 tournament. Seeds 9-15 in each section go to the Tier 2 tournament.

Naturally, the big schools and dominant privates would be in the Tier 1 tournament, and the Tier 2 tournament plays out for the smaller schools, or the schools that may be large but just aren't very good.

No more opt ups, if your'e good, you're up, if you're not, you're down.

Problem solved. Until the potential 8th seed throws a game to become the 9th seed.

Oh come on, that scenario would never, ever happen! Too much integrity in every single school.

[JohnnyBuck]

I actually like the system that is set up now. The "A" tournament is a good tournament if teams that should play in it do. Actually, if you take Blake out of this year's tourney it would have been a great tournament. there would not have been a huge discrepancy with the other 7 teams with all having some shot at winning. With Blake in it the outcome was known before the tourney started IMO. The only problem IMO is when obvious dominating teams chose to play down. The same problem exists on the boys side with Hermantown playing down. They have known since Pee Wees that they had a potential AA state championship team, yet they chose to play down.

[allhoc11]

I understand the obsession with getting the best teams into the tournament, but what happened to the love for the Cinderella Story?

I love having Cinderella teams, but just feel they should have to beat a good team in order to get to the big dance. IMO you lose the cinderella effect when an underdog team gets there because they came from a section where they didn't have to beat a good team. In addition they are not prepared to beat good teams once they get to the tourney so they are 1 and done anyway.

If you find a way to balance section play so you have a potential 15-40 ranked team upsetting a top end team, then they might actually have a squad that can beat high end teams once at the X, and therefore we all might get a true Cinderella team to cheer for!