Striking Perspective on Elite/Selective Training for Girls

Discussion of Minnesota Girls High School Hockey

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The Bone
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Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2009 4:20 pm

Striking Perspective on Elite/Selective Training for Girls

Post by The Bone » Tue Mar 15, 2016 8:54 am

What 97% of Girls Hockey Players Don't Have

Over the past 6 years, I have run dozens of elite player development camps with teams and players from all across North America. In these full-day camps, we go on the ice for skills sessions and on-ice testing, we do off-ice fitness testing and go through off-ice speed and strength training, as well as workshops on hockey-specific performance nutrition, goal setting and how to get noticed and recruited by women's college hockey teams. By the end of the camp, the entire group been assessed, they know what they need to improve on and they have the resources that will help them take their performance to the next level. I truly believe every girls hockey players deserves the same level of access and the opportunity to learn exactly what it takes to become an elite female hockey player. But they don't have it - yet.

The truth is that we are not doing a very good job of developing elite female hockey players in North America. Sure, we've won all the gold medals and continue to dominate on the world stage, but much of this success can be attributed to the sheer number of girls playing the game and the opportunity to compete and train against the "best" on a consistent basis. But are we really giving all girls hockey players in North America access to the opportunity to reach all of their hockey dreams?

For the most part, we rely on a very Darwinistic approach when it comes to player development. We have far more girls playing than ever before and the "cream of the crop" naturally rises to the top. When this top 3% of players between the ages of 14-18 emerge, we give them access to the resources they need to make it to the elite level. But what about everyone else? Why are only the "best" given the information and the opportunity? It is irresponsible and unfair for us to cater only the "elite" players.

I recognize that not every girls hockey player in North America aspires to play women's college hockey or make the Olympic team. But there are many who do, who don't make the "right" team or are not from an association, team or area that has the access to development resources both on and off the ice. Are we really giving players who aren't "elite" quite yet the opportunity to move on to the highest levels of female hockey? I always tell players to, "Work Hard and Dream BIG", but the truth is that those 2 things are not enough to make you a great player. You need to have access to the resources that will allow you to get there and be able to put together your plan to get you where you want to be.

I am not exactly sure what the answer is to this problem. We can't clone elite coaches, mass produce elite teams so that every girl has the chance to see what elite level girls hockey really looks like, or invite them all to selection camps that run across North America every spring and summer. But we can empower them with information. We can let them know exactly what it takes to get to that elite level and allow them to make the decision as to whether they want to pursue those dreams. That is how we will create a culture of excellence in women's hockey - where every girl has the opportunity to fulfill her dreams. I truly believe that this type of widespread education and empowerment in girls hockey is not only possible, but absolutely necessary.

Work Hard. Dream Big.

Your friend and coach,
Kim McCullough
Director & Founder of Total Female Hockey

massalsa
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Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 6:37 pm

Post by massalsa » Tue Mar 15, 2016 11:14 am

1. Every hockey playing girl in the USA that does NOT live in Minnesota should move to Minnesota.

2. Every hockey playing girl now in MN that does NOT live in Edina, Eden Prairie, Minnetonka, Wayzata, or Maple Grove should move within open enrollment bussing distance.

3. Those that choose to live in other cities in the west metro should enroll and play for Blake, Benilde, Breck, Totino, Holy Angels, or Providence Academy (they have a boys team but no girls team...and a rink!).

4. Those that are on the east side should all play for Hill Murray, Cretin, or SPU. Or South St Paul (they have 2 sheets at their rink!).

5. Joel Johnson will coach ALL of the teams in the West Metro north of 394.

6. Brad Frost will coach ALL of the teams in the West Metro south of 394.

7. Winny Brodt will coach all teams in the East Metro.

8. No boys are allowed to play at any of the rinks within the Twin Cities Metro area accept MN Made in the SW Metro, Super Rink and Fogarty for NW and NE Metro, and SE Metro will play at the Lakeville rinks. Mike Yeo can coach all of the boys.

9. Donald Trump WILL PAY FOR ALL OF IT!!!

10. Bernie Sanders will figure out a way to pay for something similar in Canada for Canadian girls.

Problem solved.

Go ahead thegreatone99...you solve the next one. Maybe we can get another 20,000+ views on the next problem.

AAA Dad
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Re: Striking Perspective on Elite/Selective Training for Gir

Post by AAA Dad » Tue Mar 15, 2016 3:08 pm

[/quote]
The truth is that we are not doing a very good job of developing elite female hockey players in North America. Sure, we've won all the gold medals and continue to dominate on the world stage, but much of this success can be attributed to the sheer number of girls playing the game and the opportunity to compete and train against the "best" on a consistent basis. But are we really giving all girls hockey players in North America access to the opportunity to reach all of their hockey dreams?

Are we really giving players who aren't "elite" quite yet the opportunity to move on to the highest levels of female hockey?
[/quote]




I disagree with most of your plea.

North America is decades ahead of the rest of the world in women's hockey development.

Minnesotans are fortunate to have the best training options in the country.

All cannot reach their hockey dreams no matter what access to training/education they have.

The hard work to become and remain elite at anything is not something most are willing to do even if the player has the God-given skills and smarts.

I do believe the cream rises to the top in general with some exceptions.

Looks like the best chance for getting free elite training for all players is dying with Clinton's crushing of Bernie Sanders tonight.

Ironrange79
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Post by Ironrange79 » Wed Mar 16, 2016 2:34 am

My daughter loves the game and can't wait to go to the rink!

Mavs
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Post by Mavs » Wed Mar 16, 2016 3:52 am

What state is she running her female training in?

jg2112
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Post by jg2112 » Wed Mar 16, 2016 4:46 am

Mavs wrote:What state is she running her female training in?
If you're referring to McCullough, she's based near Toronto.

luckyEPDad
Posts: 416
Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 3:31 pm

Post by luckyEPDad » Wed Mar 16, 2016 4:51 am

Mavs wrote:What state is she running her female training in?
Ever heard of Google? Here's a link because you are just too lazy.

http://totalfemalehockey.com/meet-kim/

I agree with several statements Kim makes. Girl's hockey in Minnesota is kind of an afterthought when compared to boys, and I think it gets a lot worse outside our borders. That makes some sense since there isn't a girl's hockey career path and the current systems are more than adequate to feed one Olympic team. However, when you look beyond (or even within)the 35 D1 hockey programs at the D3 programs you begin to see a lot of dilution. And the college hockey clubs can be a joke. My daughter assures me the EP JV team could take the University of Iowa Lady Hawks.

But because there is no hockey career path you have to wonder if this is a search for a solution to a non-existent problem. Is it important that our young ladies reach their highest hockey potential, or is it acceptable that they have fun playing hockey?

jg2112
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Post by jg2112 » Wed Mar 16, 2016 6:45 am

luckyEPDad wrote:
Mavs wrote:What state is she running her female training in?
Ever heard of Google? Here's a link because you are just too lazy.

http://totalfemalehockey.com/meet-kim/

I agree with several statements Kim makes. Girl's hockey in Minnesota is kind of an afterthought when compared to boys, and I think it gets a lot worse outside our borders. That makes some sense since there isn't a girl's hockey career path and the current systems are more than adequate to feed one Olympic team. However, when you look beyond (or even within)the 35 D1 hockey programs at the D3 programs you begin to see a lot of dilution. And the college hockey clubs can be a joke. My daughter assures me the EP JV team could take the University of Iowa Lady Hawks.

But because there is no hockey career path you have to wonder if this is a search for a solution to a non-existent problem. Is it important that our young ladies reach their highest hockey potential, or is it acceptable that they have fun playing hockey?
Girls hockey is where many other sports were in their infancy. Let's not forget that professional sports are not a long-term enterprise. The NFL is under 100 years old, and German soccer only introduced professionalism in the 1960s. Look where those sports are now.

There are two professional womens' hockey leagues in North America with more in Sweden and Italy. The MN Whitecaps sure seem to be angling to join the NWHL in the near future based on their 2015-16. So things are improving in that regard.

And "hockey player" isn't the only path for these brilliant high school players. The girls game at youth level needs way more female coaches and trainers. We need top level female skaters to turn into top level coaches. Adopting the Canada hockey rule that at least 1 woman is on the bench for every girls' team would be a worthy aspirational goal, turned into a rule at some point in the future.

So I think continuing to strive to improve the talent pool with more elite training / talent is a worthwhile task with the aim to support pro leagues and college teams.

Mavs
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Post by Mavs » Wed Mar 16, 2016 7:57 am

luckyEPDad wrote:
Mavs wrote:What state is she running her female training in?
Ever heard of Google? Here's a link because you are just too lazy.

http://totalfemalehockey.com/meet-kim/

I agree with several statements Kim makes. Girl's hockey in Minnesota is kind of an afterthought when compared to boys, and I think it gets a lot worse outside our borders. That makes some sense since there isn't a girl's hockey career path and the current systems are more than adequate to feed one Olympic team. However, when you look beyond (or even within)the 35 D1 hockey programs at the D3 programs you begin to see a lot of dilution. And the college hockey clubs can be a joke. My daughter assures me the EP JV team could take the University of Iowa Lady Hawks.

But because there is no hockey career path you have to wonder if this is a search for a solution to a non-existent problem. Is it important that our young ladies reach their highest hockey potential, or is it acceptable that they have fun playing hockey?
I wanted that to be part of the discussion but thanks for being a jackass for no reason.

luckyEPDad
Posts: 416
Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 3:31 pm

Post by luckyEPDad » Wed Mar 16, 2016 8:36 am

Mavs wrote:
luckyEPDad wrote:
Mavs wrote:What state is she running her female training in?
Ever heard of Google? Here's a link because you are just too lazy.

http://totalfemalehockey.com/meet-kim/

I agree with several statements Kim makes. Girl's hockey in Minnesota is kind of an afterthought when compared to boys, and I think it gets a lot worse outside our borders. That makes some sense since there isn't a girl's hockey career path and the current systems are more than adequate to feed one Olympic team. However, when you look beyond (or even within)the 35 D1 hockey programs at the D3 programs you begin to see a lot of dilution. And the college hockey clubs can be a joke. My daughter assures me the EP JV team could take the University of Iowa Lady Hawks.

But because there is no hockey career path you have to wonder if this is a search for a solution to a non-existent problem. Is it important that our young ladies reach their highest hockey potential, or is it acceptable that they have fun playing hockey?
I wanted that to be part of the discussion but thanks for being a jackass for no reason.
If you want to participate in the conversation then how about making a contribution. Maybe offer up an opinion or supply an additional piece of information. Or are you too lazy for that too?

As for women's leagues and coaches and such, Again I ask if the original plea is a search for a solution to a non-existent problem. Professional athletes didn't start getting good until there was a market for their skills. Early professional football teams were inferior to most college teams. Baseball was played by part-time athletes until the market developed. Spectators created a market where it became viable to be a professional athlete, and from there market forces created an environment to maximize performance.

There can be no doubt that this is true boy's hockey. The siren song of the NHL is what pays for all those hockey camp, $300 sticks and $1000 skates. It is a huge vacuum sucking millions of dollars from deluded parents and giving pennies in return. But for the boys it is Ok, because someone from Minnesota might get drafted in the top 100. Yay! It is all worth it!

For girls, thinking about a post HS hockey career is a little crazy. Were everyone to "reach their hockey potential" it would go from a little crazy to totally insane. Right now, if you play like Hannah Brandt the Gophers come a courting. If everyone played like Hannah Brandt then you probably don't make the club team. But that's Ok, because there are some really competitive games at Friday night open ice. If you want a D1 scholarship I suggest investing in a college fund. The return is much better than paying for summer hockey

There is no financial reason for girls to play hockey. They certainly don't play for the adoration of the hoards of fans that regularly attend games. I think the girls have got it figured out. They play because they like the game and they like the team. Sure they all want to be good, but good is a relative measurement, and for most players it means "good enough to help my team".

What's wrong with letting hockey remain a game?

Mavs
Posts: 448
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Post by Mavs » Wed Mar 16, 2016 11:24 am

luckyEPDad wrote:
Mavs wrote:
luckyEPDad wrote:
Mavs wrote:What state is she running her female training in?
Ever heard of Google? Here's a link because you are just too lazy.

http://totalfemalehockey.com/meet-kim/

I agree with several statements Kim makes. Girl's hockey in Minnesota is kind of an afterthought when compared to boys, and I think it gets a lot worse outside our borders. That makes some sense since there isn't a girl's hockey career path and the current systems are more than adequate to feed one Olympic team. However, when you look beyond (or even within)the 35 D1 hockey programs at the D3 programs you begin to see a lot of dilution. And the college hockey clubs can be a joke. My daughter assures me the EP JV team could take the University of Iowa Lady Hawks.

But because there is no hockey career path you have to wonder if this is a search for a solution to a non-existent problem. Is it important that our young ladies reach their highest hockey potential, or is it acceptable that they have fun playing hockey?
I wanted that to be part of the discussion but thanks for being a jackass for no reason.
If you want to participate in the conversation then how about making a contribution. Maybe offer up an opinion or supply an additional piece of information. Or are you too lazy for that too?

As for women's leagues and coaches and such, Again I ask if the original plea is a search for a solution to a non-existent problem. Professional athletes didn't start getting good until there was a market for their skills. Early professional football teams were inferior to most college teams. Baseball was played by part-time athletes until the market developed. Spectators created a market where it became viable to be a professional athlete, and from there market forces created an environment to maximize performance.

There can be no doubt that this is true boy's hockey. The siren song of the NHL is what pays for all those hockey camp, $300 sticks and $1000 skates. It is a huge vacuum sucking millions of dollars from deluded parents and giving pennies in return. But for the boys it is Ok, because someone from Minnesota might get drafted in the top 100. Yay! It is all worth it!

For girls, thinking about a post HS hockey career is a little crazy. Were everyone to "reach their hockey potential" it would go from a little crazy to totally insane. Right now, if you play like Hannah Brandt the Gophers come a courting. If everyone played like Hannah Brandt then you probably don't make the club team. But that's Ok, because there are some really competitive games at Friday night open ice. If you want a D1 scholarship I suggest investing in a college fund. The return is much better than paying for summer hockey

There is no financial reason for girls to play hockey. They certainly don't play for the adoration of the hoards of fans that regularly attend games. I think the girls have got it figured out. They play because they like the game and they like the team. Sure they all want to be good, but good is a relative measurement, and for most players it means "good enough to help my team".

What's wrong with letting hockey remain a game?
I apologize if I didn't follow your personal rules on this forum. I'm sure I ruined your otherwise amazing day so sorry about that. Carry on.

MNHockeyFan
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Post by MNHockeyFan » Wed Mar 16, 2016 1:31 pm

Getting back to topic, and to the main question the original poster raised:

I recognize that not every girls hockey player in North America aspires to play women's college hockey or make the Olympic team. But there are many who do, who don't make the "right" team or are not from an association, team or area that has the access to development resources both on and off the ice. Are we really giving players who aren't "elite" quite yet the opportunity to move on to the highest levels of female hockey?

Here's an idea, how about those who run advanced training programs (like Total Female Hockey) make some scholarships available to some talented and dedicated girls who otherwise can't participate due to cost? Limit the number to however many could be accepted without raising costs for everyone else, while still allowing those running them a reasonable profit?

Mavs
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Post by Mavs » Wed Mar 16, 2016 2:04 pm

jg2112 wrote:
Mavs wrote:What state is she running her female training in?
If you're referring to McCullough, she's based near Toronto.
Thank you

thegreatone99
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Post by thegreatone99 » Wed Mar 16, 2016 3:46 pm

This is so Rich :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

old goalie85
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Post by old goalie85 » Fri Mar 18, 2016 1:49 am

Massasla-You forgot Forest Lake/Andover. Both rising stars in Girls Hockey.

Hansonbrother
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Post by Hansonbrother » Fri Mar 18, 2016 4:30 am

Big weekend at Braemar.... Os Spring Festival is finally here! For those that haven't gotten their hockey fix since the high school season ended, here you go! Top high school players from all over the metro (and some outstate too), competing against each other...should be some great hockey!!

greybeard58
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Post by greybeard58 » Fri Mar 18, 2016 4:57 am

Is there a link for the rosters of the teams anywhere?

AAA Dad
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Post by AAA Dad » Sun Apr 10, 2016 4:54 pm

MNHockeyFan wrote:Getting back to topic, and to the main question the original poster raised:

I recognize that not every girls hockey player in North America aspires to play women's college hockey or make the Olympic team. But there are many who do, who don't make the "right" team or are not from an association, team or area that has the access to development resources both on and off the ice. Are we really giving players who aren't "elite" quite yet the opportunity to move on to the highest levels of female hockey?

Here's an idea, how about those who run advanced training programs (like Total Female Hockey) make some scholarships available to some talented and dedicated girls who otherwise can't participate due to cost? Limit the number to however many could be accepted without raising costs for everyone else, while still allowing those running them a reasonable profit?
Total Female hockey's business plan is obviously preying on the ones a bit behind the elite pack! Telling people they can give you the tools no one gave her although She played at a high level!"
Spend a few hours with your daughter and give them a wealth of knowledge that will make a big difference! .. See it for what it is people!.. It's a for profit business!!

pepperpot
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Post by pepperpot » Mon Apr 11, 2016 3:46 am

AAA, your obviously talking about Whinny Brodt LOL.

luckyEPDad
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Post by luckyEPDad » Mon Apr 11, 2016 8:37 am

pepperpot wrote:AAA, your obviously talking about Whinny Brodt LOL.
I never heard that sales pitch. As far as I'm concerned Whinny delivers what she promises, X hours of ice time, Y number of games, Z number of tournaments. I think some people infer that summer hockey will make them better, but I have yet to hear Whinny imply that summer hockey is going to make you a great player or that you will fall behind if you don't play summer hockey.

Does she make money? Duh! What's wrong with that?

nu2hockey
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Post by nu2hockey » Mon Apr 11, 2016 6:31 pm

Winny Brodt-Brown

All she has done is give girls opportunities to play, develop passion for the sport, and make friends... very,very few places can claim the same

Hansonbrother
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Post by Hansonbrother » Mon Apr 11, 2016 7:31 pm

nu2hockey wrote:Winny Brodt-Brown

All she has done is give girls opportunities to play, develop passion for the sport, and make friends... very,very few places can claim the same
At every level of girls hockey...whether they are U-10 or Jr. Whitecap, Winny is incredible at matching kids with correct levels of competition. And the most impressive thing about her, is she knows your kid. If you've been in her camp, she knows you and your level. How she can remember every kid is so impressive and makes every kid feel that she cares about them. She is an incredible source for MN girls hockey...She is the connection from MN hockey to college hockey, like it or not.

Lace'emUp
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Post by Lace'emUp » Tue Apr 12, 2016 12:39 pm

Hansonbrother wrote:
nu2hockey wrote:Winny Brodt-Brown

All she has done is give girls opportunities to play, develop passion for the sport, and make friends... very,very few places can claim the same
At every level of girls hockey...whether they are U-10 or Jr. Whitecap, Winny is incredible at matching kids with correct levels of competition. And the most impressive thing about her, is she knows your kid. If you've been in her camp, she knows you and your level. How she can remember every kid is so impressive and makes every kid feel that she cares about them. She is an incredible source for MN girls hockey...She is the connection from MN hockey to college hockey, like it or not.
Though Winny's Os program has been around for awhile now, over the last 2 years it seems to have grown into a juggernaut for girls hockey. If you're a top end player, you're probably associated with Winny in some form or way. She plays a huge roll in the Girls HS Elite League, and coached some of those teams in the Tier 1 Nationals. Her 8-week program in the summer is open to all, but her Os teams are very select, and only the top player make them. She's also involved with WHAM and growing women's hockey overall, even for ladies who have never played before. She's become one of the top ambassadors for the girls/womens game at all levels.

massalsa
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Post by massalsa » Tue Apr 12, 2016 12:41 pm

Hansonbrother wrote:
nu2hockey wrote:Winny Brodt-Brown

All she has done is give girls opportunities to play, develop passion for the sport, and make friends... very,very few places can claim the same
At every level of girls hockey...whether they are U-10 or Jr. Whitecap, Winny is incredible at matching kids with correct levels of competition. And the most impressive thing about her, is she knows your kid. If you've been in her camp, she knows you and your level. How she can remember every kid is so impressive and makes every kid feel that she cares about them. She is an incredible source for MN girls hockey...She is the connection from MN hockey to college hockey, like it or not.
I can't think of ANYONE I have met or have heard about that I would rather have as the connection to college hockey and the amazing opportunities that it presents to girls. She is a GIFT to this state and girls hockey.

itsfoilcoach
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Post by itsfoilcoach » Tue Apr 12, 2016 7:15 pm

massalsa wrote:
Hansonbrother wrote:
nu2hockey wrote:Winny Brodt-Brown

All she has done is give girls opportunities to play, develop passion for the sport, and make friends... very,very few places can claim the same
At every level of girls hockey...whether they are U-10 or Jr. Whitecap, Winny is incredible at matching kids with correct levels of competition. And the most impressive thing about her, is she knows your kid. If you've been in her camp, she knows you and your level. How she can remember every kid is so impressive and makes every kid feel that she cares about them. She is an incredible source for MN girls hockey...She is the connection from MN hockey to college hockey, like it or not.
I can't think of ANYONE I have met or have heard about that I would rather have as the connection to college hockey and the amazing opportunities that it presents to girls. She is a GIFT to this state and girls hockey.

I think you all just made me throw up in my mouth a bit... Please give your daughters some credit. If you're good enough, you will get noticed with, or without WB. At the end of the day you need to be able to back up what people say about you on the ice. Winney can't skate for your daughters, and no collage will take her because she knows, oh my god.... Winney. Your daughters are the biggest reason they get noticed. Coaches, recruiters, grades, and hard work are what get them there. If anything, Winney reaps the free benefits of your daughters hard work, and your investments in her gift through her years of hard work. Yes, Winney has a network, but if she's good enough she will be noticed with or without her. Stop drinking the cool-aid. Many made it without her. In no way does it hurt your daughters chances naturally. But try to separate your starry eyed personal feeling for the lady, and give your daughters the accolades for her achievments she deserves....with out the asterisk behind her name for Winney.

Im not saying she hasnt contributed alot to the sport. So lets not go off the deep end here on my comments. But let's be sensible as well.

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