Let's play hockey rankings.????

Discussion of Minnesota Girls High School Hockey

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itsfoilcoach
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Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2014 1:02 pm

Let's play hockey rankings.????

Post by itsfoilcoach » Thu Dec 08, 2016 4:22 am

Looking at the rankings year after year you have to wonder if they make sure the rural teams are placed in the top twenty just for paper saturation purposes. Meaning if they don't throw in a couple up north teams (and Im sure the voting is all on the up and up scientifically by the way). just to keep people looking at their paper. I mean TRF playing big guns like Bemidji and Crookston, Park Rapids, Detroit Lakes to name a few top tier teams up there. There is also a few other teams in the top twenty outside of the cities when looking at their SOS rankings and their current schedule just puzzles me. By the way how did Breck do against FL with a decent goalie to play against their one pony show... well it wasn't in the win column. My point is there seems to be a lot of teams that are goalie challenged, or a lot teams that are just not as good as they used to be. It looks like if you throw in a heck of a shooter and presto you get a shot at a top ten ranking according to LPH. LPH frankly doesn't recognize real data like the other ranking systems do. It seems to be more political than anything else. Breck hasn't played anyone tough until Edina really....and a loss at that. Don't get me wrong I would take a team of her. But playing an easy schedule and scoring goals shouldn't equat to a high ranking.
Last edited by itsfoilcoach on Fri Dec 09, 2016 2:13 am, edited 3 times in total.

nu2hockey
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Post by nu2hockey » Thu Dec 08, 2016 6:56 am

LPH does have a strong tendency to have "legacy" teams voted higher than some feel they should...yet, LPH chooses to do it and by right they should do what they want....

I am curious, put your top 20 for both classes up with your reasoning...
that's not a poke, because you seem to have your method that you consider accurate ( as do many of us)

Where would you place Breck?

itsfoilcoach
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Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2014 1:02 pm

Post by itsfoilcoach » Thu Dec 08, 2016 7:21 am

nu2hockey wrote:LPH does have a strong tendency to have "legacy" teams voted higher than some feel they should...yet, LPH chooses to do it and by right they should do what they want....

I am curious, put your top 20 for both classes up with your reasoning...
that's not a poke, because you seem to have your method that you consider accurate ( as do many of us)

Where would you place Breck?
Breck may have been a bad example. They are a top ten team naturally. But the two teams they lost to kinda plays well into this discussion. Pretty easy schedule till this point. So LPH has couple .500 teams in the top 10, interesting. My point is more about how they get there rankings, and less about the teams I mentioned. I like your thought on legacy. I think your right on there. East Grand Forks...really. Kinda like those silly save percentages of around 970, yea right. These mean absolutely nothing. Then some of the wacked goal totals this year. It's just fun to watch the padding that's going on. The stats this year are kind of a joke. 14 goal games, really? This stuff overshadows some honest hard working kids, and teams playing those tough games. But some people eat it up, along with LPH....and the HUB to some extent. I'm just looking for a topic to discuss that could be interesting. And playing the devils advocate a little.

Mavs
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Post by Mavs » Thu Dec 08, 2016 9:11 am

It appears Cretin, Minnetonka and Wayzata could lose 5 in a row and still be ranked in the top 10

zooomx
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Post by zooomx » Thu Dec 08, 2016 9:46 am

Not sure I get your point foil. At quick glance the LPH ranking and the more scientific rankings seem to be fairly close.

Which teams are you thinking are overlooked and which teams are overvalued?

East Grand Forks at 14 seems pretty reasonable to me. But, still very early and I agree that when rankers do not have enough results to process, they may turn to legacy votes.

LPH
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Post by LPH » Thu Dec 08, 2016 10:17 am

Just a point of clarification: The LPH rankings are determined by high school head coaches, not by LPH staff. One way to look at the LPH rankings is that of a "coaches poll" while other sources provide "computer rankings." All of our rankings - boys' & girls HS, youth - use coaches as rankers.

puckdreams
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Post by puckdreams » Thu Dec 08, 2016 11:58 am

Mavs wrote:It appears Cretin, Minnetonka and Wayzata could lose 5 in a row and still be ranked in the top 10
At least- Top 12

LPH -
Please pass along to your Head High School Coach Rankers, that several of your rank and file readers are wondering why certain schools seem to have extra special holding power in the rankings they dutifully submit.
I.E.
Cretin-Derham Hall ranked 9th with a below .500 record (2-3-1)
Minnetonka 2-3-2 yet ranked 12th


GIRLS CLASS AA (first-place votes) – Dec 7th, 2016
Rank - Team - Record - Rank Last Week
1. Edina 6-0-0 ~1
2. Maple Grove 6-1-0 ~2
3. Eden Prairie 4-2-0 ~3
4. Blaine 7-0-0 ~5
5. Hill-Murray 4-2-0 ~4
6. Elk River 6-1-0 ~6
7. Centennial 5-2-0 ~7
8. Lakeville South 6-2-0 ~11
9. Cretin-Derham Hall 2-3-1 ~8
10. Wayzata 4-2-0 ~10
11. Forest Lake 3-1-1 ~12
12. Minnetonka 2-3-2 ~9
13. Chaska/Chanhassen 5-5-0 ~13
14. Eagan 4-1-1 ~14
15. White Bear Lake 5-2-0 ~16
16. Eastview 5-3-0 ~15
17. Dodge County 5-1-0 ~20
18. Hopkins/Park 7-2-0 ~19
19. Mounds View 4-1-0 ~RV
20. Stillwater Area 3-3-0 ~17

Receiving votes: Lakeville North, Shakopee, Apple Valley, Champlin Park, Prior Lake, Grand Rapids/Greenway, Andover

massalsa
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Post by massalsa » Thu Dec 08, 2016 5:05 pm

Mavs wrote:It appears Cretin, Minnetonka and Wayzata could lose 5 in a row and still be ranked in the top 10
I think when you see who the teams have played and the result you can garner a reasonable ranking.

Cretin tied Blake (2-2), lost to Edina (5-1), and lost 3-2 to both Stillwater & WBH. All pretty decent teams. IMO they are probably fairly ranked...

Wayzata lost to Blake (7-1), lost to Breck (6-1). Then had a 1 and 3 - 3 or more goal wins over 4 unranked teams on LPH. From that and looking briefly at Shakopee's (tonights opponent and "receiving votes" on LPH ranking) wins I predict a Shakopee win over #12 Wayzata UNLESS Heising takes over the game and scores a bunch of goals. IMO they are ranked too high...we will find out tonight!

Tonka is a more difficult team to figure out with a blow out win vs Bloomington Jefferson (11-0), a loss against Roseville (1-0), and other ties and a big win vs Warroad. I believe that they are ranked too high as well.

After seeing all 3 of the aforementioned teams play I believe that the order is correct but Wayzata & Tonka are probably ranked too high and the rest of the teams should move up as they move down. This might be the year that Minnetonka and Wayzata are the bottom 2 teams in the Lake conference. I would not be surprised at all if the Lake is:

Edina (should run table but maybe 1 conference loss splitting with EP?!?)
EP (Could win conference but most likely a 1-3 loss season for 2nd in Lake)
Hopkins (They could sweep Tonka & Wayzata and sneak a win vs EP)
Wayzata (may only win 1 or 2 conference games and battle w/Tonka for bottom)
Tonka (May only win 1 or 2 conference games)

Who knows?!?! Thats why the play the games!!!

Also look at KRACH & LSQ Rankings...I think that those are much better as the season goes on and all 3 seem to come together at the end.

InigoMontoya
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Post by InigoMontoya » Fri Dec 09, 2016 1:32 pm

I predict a Shakopee win over #12 Wayzata
Nice!

MNHockeyFan
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Post by MNHockeyFan » Thu Jan 26, 2017 10:16 am

GIRLS CLASS AA (first-place votes) – JAN 25th, 2017
Rank Team Record Last Week
1. Edina (10) 20-0-1 1
2. Hill-Murray 17-4-0 2
3. Maple Grove 16-4-0 3
4. Eden Prairie 14-6-1 4
5. Blaine 17-3-0 6
6. Elk River/Zimmerman 16-5-0 5
7. Cretin-Derham Hall 14-5-2 7
8. Centennial 12-9-0 8
9. Lakeville South 16-5-0 9
10. Minnetonka 11-8-3 10
11. Chaska/Chanhassen 13-8-0 11
12. Forest Lake 13-6-1 12
13. Mounds View 15-6-0 13
14. Brainerd/Little Falls 20-2-0 14
15. Hopkins/Park 14-8-0 16
16. Wayzata 8-13-0 15
17. White Bear Lake 13-9-0 17
18. Eagan 12-7-3 18
19. Grand Rapids/Greenway 15-5-2 19
20. Shakopee 12-5-5 20
Receiving votes: Lakeville North, Spring Lake Park/Coon Rapids, Dodge County, East Ridge, Rogers, Apple Valley, Eastview

GIRLS CLASS A (first-place votes) – JAN 25th, 2017
Rank Team Record Last Week
1. Blake (10) 18-2-1 1
2. Breck 16-5-2 2
3. St. Paul United 17-4-1 3
4. Proctor/Hermantown 16-5-0 4
5. Warroad 11-7-2 5
6. Thief River Falls 14-7-0 7
7. Delano/Rockford 16-4-0 6
8. Red Wing 12-5-3 8
9. East Grand Forks 10-5-4 12
10. Princeton 16-6-0 9
11. Alexandria 11-8-1 10
12. New Prague 9-9-3 11
13. Moose Lake Area 16-4-1 13
14. Mound Westonka 16-4-0 15
15. Hibbing/Chisholm 13-9-0 14
16. Hutchinson 14-4-0 18
17. Northfield 13-6-2 17
18. South St. Paul 10-10-2 16
19. Owatonna 14-5-2 19
20. New Ulm 14-2-4 20
Receiving votes: Fergus Falls, Orono, Mahtomedi

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