Blake and SPU

Discussion of Minnesota Girls High School Hockey

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thegreatone99
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Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2016 11:45 am

Blake and SPU

Post by thegreatone99 » Fri Feb 24, 2017 7:26 pm

What a fantastic afternoon, two great games today and I can't wait for another rematch between these two powerhouses for the State Title! Just like last year. These games continue to show how much parity there is at the Class A level and it's anybody's tournament to win. I am shocked Mound did not make it to the title game.

I wish there were more privates like these two wonderful teams so we could watch even more fantastic games. At least they both made it to the title game so we can all watch these two tremendous and spectacular teams . And if we are lucky, they can play for the title again same time next year.

The Class A title is almost like groundhog day every year. And we can continue to be entertained by the same teams year in and year out, to be so lucky.

Go Bears!

thegreatone99
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Post by thegreatone99 » Mon Feb 27, 2017 1:13 am

Interesting Strib comments posted under recap win by Blake

Charles · about 13 hours
The whole point of having two separate classes allows the smaller schools an opportunity to play in the state tournament and the chance to wish and work hard for the State title. The private schools take away from the smaller school community based teams. St. Thomas Academy finally got it and moved up in class. Blake needs to do the same

Allie · 02/25/2017, 4:36pm CST
How about Blake moves up in class to face some serious competition like St. Thomas did in the boys' bracket? Big deal if you win again and again and again-especially when you recruit players to join your squad. Pretty sure Edina would wax your a-- as would Eden Prairie, Minnetonka and fill in the blank of other schools who do not have the option to say, "Hey, bring your $25,000/year here! We have a a good hockey team and a good educational program!" Same challenge goes out to Breck, and while I am at it, St. Paul United. How about playing for your school??

Robert · 02/25/2017, 7:23pm CST
Allie,
Please do your homework. Blake played Edina this year at Braemar and beat them 2-1. They also played a AA schedule.

Ogie Oglethorpe · 02/26/2017, 12:35am CST
Robert - So the question still remains. Read the statement again. Maybe slower so you can read between the lines. The point being if a team like Blake beats the class AA champion. Then what would be the benefit staying class A year after year. It's not good for them, nor is it good for the others they play, or the state of hockey. It is good however for the school when it comes to increase enrollments...$$$$. and misguided parents living through thier children. It's interesting however. You can achieve a great education at privates schools. You have smaller class sizes, and challenging courses some public schools can't offer. I'm sure they get the most out of the education money they spend. These privates strive to better the student by challenging every students in every way...except in sports/hockey. This is where they seem to think challenging the student athlete to play against equal or better talent isnt worth the cost of decreased enrollment$. I mean who wants to go to school that can't win every year in a state tournament, or at least finish near the top. It's about the money at the end of the day...not the kids Read Less

Harmon · 1 day
Private schools should either have their own division, or be forced to play in the large school division. Inherently not fair to let them recruit the metro for wealthy families amongst a pop. of 2.2 million, and then play against small public schools who draw from multiples smaller populations with a normal spread of wealth. the MN hsaa really sells out on this one, year after year.

Steve · 02/26/2017, 6:40am CST
Before going down this road of unfair advantage, I would suggest a little homework. growing up and playing sports in a smaller public school, my first encounter in the private sector came from teaching and coaching in it for over forty years. So, let me offer some information: most private schools are smaller in number, have rules about recruiting, have scholarship programs based on need and academic qualifications, required strenuous daily academics that cut into practice times and student energy, small budgets for sports, often face uninformed bias in many forms. Oh, and before throwing out the "recruiting" allegation too strongly, explain to me how "open enrollment" works when public school students can attend schools outside their normal resident restrictions.

Mavs
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Post by Mavs » Mon Feb 27, 2017 10:49 am

Maybe AA schools shouldn't play them in the regular season. If they want to be Class A, then play Class A.

They would then think that schedule sucks and move up.

zambonidriver
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Post by zambonidriver » Mon Feb 27, 2017 11:02 am

All schools recruit. Public and private in all sports. Some do it better than others. Hopkins, EP, East Ridge, Mtka., Mahotmedi, Apple Valley... and the list goes on.

InigoMontoya
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Post by InigoMontoya » Mon Feb 27, 2017 12:13 pm

zambonidriver wrote:All schools recruit. Public and private in all sports. Some do it better than others. Hopkins, EP, East Ridge, Mtka., Mahotmedi, Apple Valley... and the list goes on.
None of the recruiters you mention are 1A schools, so you extend the point that B, B, and SPU should move up with the other recruiters. I could be wrong, but I don't think Alexandria or Northfield had too many move-ins. Mound is unfortunate to be geographically close enough to lose players to the recruiters.

pepperpot
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Post by pepperpot » Mon Feb 27, 2017 12:36 pm

Thats a joke. The oldest argument in the book. Public schools don't give under the table financial aid. Open enrollment attracts kids from a nearby neighborhood. Privates draw from a unlimited area. Don't try and justify it. Privates had their own tournament deal until the high school league got payola. They are wrecking girls hockey by allowing this.

LSQRANK
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Post by LSQRANK » Mon Feb 27, 2017 12:49 pm

A little more fuel to burn on the fire ... All 3: B, B & SPU should move up to compete at the AA level according to the ratings the past 3 years.

Code: Select all

LSQRANK (C) Dr. Matt Stevens 

GIRL HS Rankings [West Regional]  (updated 26-FEB-2017) 

Regional 
LSQRANK State Tier     Score                                                Team     LG       SEC        CLS    GP  (WW-LL-TT) percent 
====================================================================================================================================== 
     1  MN     HS  1000.0000   MN Class AA State Champion                  Edina      MnHSHL   6         AA     30  (28- 1- 1) 0.950  
     2  MN     HS   999.1386   MN Class AA State Runner-up                Blaine      MnHSHL   5         AA     30  (23- 4- 3) 0.817  
     3  MN     HS   998.6347   MN Class  A State Champion                  Blake      MnHSHL   5          A     30  (27- 2- 1) 0.917  
     4  MN     HS   998.4637                                          MapleGrove      MnHSHL   5         AA     28  (22- 5- 1) 0.804  
     5  MN     HS   998.2087   MN Class AA State 3rd place           EdenPrairie      MnHSHL   2         AA     30  (21- 7- 2) 0.733  
     6  MN     HS   997.9801                                               Breck      MnHSHL   5          A     28  (19- 6- 3) 0.732  
     7  MN     HS   997.9503   MN STP                                Hill-Murray      MnHSHL   4         AA     31  (24- 6- 1) 0.790  
     8  MN     HS   997.6005                                          Centennial      MnHSHL   5         AA     27  (15-12- 0) 0.556  
     9  MN     HS   997.4089                                  ElkRiver/Zimmerman      MnHSHL   7         AA     28  (21- 7- 0) 0.750  
    10  MN     T1   997.1768                              ShattuckStMaryGirls16U       USAT1   0        AAA     12  (10- 0- 2) 0.917 
     
    11  MN     HS   997.1323                                          Minnetonka      MnHSHL   2         AA     28  (14-10- 4) 0.571  
    12  MN     HS   997.0443   MN STP                                 ForestLake      MnHSHL   7         AA     30  (20- 8- 2) 0.700  
    13  MN     HS   996.5390                                   Cretin-DerhamHall      MnHSHL   6         AA     28  (18- 8- 2) 0.679  
    14  MN     HS   996.4235                                Brainerd/LittleFalls      MnHSHL   8         AA     28  (25- 3- 0) 0.893  
    15  MN     HS   996.1229   MN Class  A State Runner-up         St.PaulUnited      MnHSHL   4          A     30  (21- 7- 2) 0.733  
    16  MN     HS   996.0082                                      LakevilleSouth      MnHSHL   1         AA     27  (18- 9- 0) 0.667  
    17  MN     HS   995.8950   MN Class  A State 3rd place               Warroad      MnHSHL   8          A     31  (20- 9- 2) 0.677  
    18  MN     HS   995.8416                                   Chaska/Chanhassen      MnHSHL   2         AA     27  (18- 9- 0) 0.667  
    19  MN     HS   995.7042                                       WhiteBearLake      MnHSHL   4         AA     28  (17-11- 0) 0.607  
    20  MN     HS   995.6587                                               Eagan      MnHSHL   3         AA     27  (13-10- 4) 0.556  
    
    21  MN     HS   995.6149   MN STP                                     Roseau      MnHSHL   8         AA     30  (19-10- 1) 0.650  
    22  MN     HS   995.4517                                           EastRidge      MnHSHL   3         AA     28  (18-10- 0) 0.643  
    23  MN     HS   995.3602                                      LakevilleNorth      MnHSHL   1         AA     27  (15-12- 0) 0.556  
    24  MN     HS   995.3085                                          MoundsView      MnHSHL   4         AA     27  (18- 9- 0) 0.667  
    25  MN     HS   995.2702                                     ThiefRiverFalls      MnHSHL   8          A     27  (16-11- 0) 0.593  
    26  MN     HS   995.2700                                  Proctor/Hermantown      MnHSHL   7          A     26  (19- 6- 1) 0.750  
    27  MN     HS   995.1457                                            Shakopee      MnHSHL   2         AA     27  (15- 7- 5) 0.648  
    28  MN     HS   995.1426   MN STP                                 Farmington      MnHSHL   1         AA     31  (18-12- 1) 0.597  
    29  MN     HS   995.1302                                GrandRapids/Greenway      MnHSHL   7         AA     27  (18- 6- 3) 0.722  
    30  MN     HS   995.0466   MN STP                                   Eastview      MnHSHL   3         AA     31  (17-12- 2) 0.581 

Jeffy95
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Post by Jeffy95 » Mon Feb 27, 2017 12:50 pm

pepperpot wrote:Thats a joke. The oldest argument in the book. Public schools don't give under the table financial aid. Open enrollment attracts kids from a nearby neighborhood. Privates draw from a unlimited area. Don't try and justify it. Privates had their own tournament deal until the high school league got payola. They are wrecking girls hockey by allowing this.
Open Enrollment has no geographic restrictions. You still have to get your kid to school either way unless the school has dorms. The only difference is that Open Enrollment costs nothing and can even be cheaper. Privates come with a hefty price tag. I agree that the recruiting schools should be in AA though, public or private.

Jeffy95
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Post by Jeffy95 » Mon Feb 27, 2017 12:54 pm

Mavs wrote:Maybe AA schools shouldn't play them in the regular season. If they want to be Class A, then play Class A.

They would then think that schedule sucks and move up.
This is the solution and requires no new classes, rules, etc. For some reason the AA schools haven't embraced it though. Hermantown would have been forced to move up three years ago on the Boys side. 2/3 of their schedule is AA teams because they know that's the level they are at and playing A teams offers no benefit to them. I think they're afraid recruiting will suffer if they don't go to the State Championship game every year. That's the only logical conclusion.

zambonidriver
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Post by zambonidriver » Mon Feb 27, 2017 1:11 pm

mahtomedi is A, Roseau, Warroad, Hermantown, Grand Rapids, Greenway, hibbing, Bemidji, Holy Family St. Cloud Cathredrial, Albany, Brainerd, There is not a school in Minnesota that hasn't recruited someone to their school. Washburn, st.paul central, CDH, Hill Murray, Johnson, The list is too numerous.

MN_Bowhunter
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Post by MN_Bowhunter » Mon Feb 27, 2017 1:30 pm

zambonidriver wrote:mahtomedi is A, Roseau, Warroad, Hermantown, Grand Rapids, Greenway, hibbing, Bemidji, Holy Family St. Cloud Cathredrial, Albany, Brainerd, There is not a school in Minnesota that hasn't recruited someone to their school. Washburn, st.paul central, CDH, Hill Murray, Johnson, The list is too numerous.
I don't think anybody's arguing that point with you Zam.

When you're dominating the competition like Blake, Breck and to a lesser degree United are, it's fair for people to suggest you should move up.

Especially when you have absolutely zero interest in playing Single A schools all season long. Aside from each other, these teams schedule EXTREMELY few games against Single A opponents. However, come February they're more than willing to play 5 or 6 single A public schools to grab another title or trip to state.

pepperpot
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Post by pepperpot » Mon Feb 27, 2017 1:52 pm

First question is whats wrong with them having their own tournament, winner plays public champ? Second thing is look at the cost of these schools. They are around $30 thousand per year. That includes lunches. Do you really think that any parent who enrolls their kid in that school with the hopes of winning state would stand for anything other than the best players? Winning at any cost. No BS about it. It's a different game with them and everyone knows it. Much different than a kid moving from Eveleth to Hibbing. It would be interesting to do an audit of the kids who go to those privates and see the financial aid the athletes in the big sports get. Money is always being passed around. Look at Marshall here in Duluth. Every year it happens, they have a top prospect moving in who normally would never afford their tuition, but magically they cough it up. Like I said, they are ruining girls hockey. Its becoming a game for silver spooners and the privates.

nu2hockey
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Post by nu2hockey » Mon Feb 27, 2017 2:14 pm

Jeffy95 wrote:
Mavs wrote:Maybe AA schools shouldn't play them in the regular season. If they want to be Class A, then play Class A.

They would then think that schedule sucks and move up.
This is the solution and requires no new classes, rules, etc. For some reason the AA schools haven't embraced it though. Hermantown would have been forced to move up three years ago on the Boys side. 2/3 of their schedule is AA teams because they know that's the level they are at and playing A teams offers no benefit to them. I think they're afraid recruiting will suffer if they don't go to the State Championship game every year. That's the only logical conclusion.

It is completely illogical and asinine to think the AA schools would conspire and collude against another member of the league.

Without the MGHSCA making a proposal to limit scheduling for class A schools (the number can't be zero) and the MSHS League
approving and then implementing said restriction , nothing will change.

MNHockeyFan
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Post by MNHockeyFan » Mon Feb 27, 2017 8:30 pm

nu2hockey wrote:Without the MGHSCA making a proposal to limit scheduling for class A schools (the number can't be zero) and the MSHS League
approving and then implementing said restriction, nothing will change.
I agree. It is extremely unlikely that the MSHSL would implement such a restrictive rule for just girls hockey.

blueblood
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a vs aa

Post by blueblood » Tue Feb 28, 2017 9:55 am

no need to have a rule, just don't schedule a class a private school.

zambonidriver
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Post by zambonidriver » Tue Feb 28, 2017 10:39 am

Really who cares. We are not living in the 70's anymore. Kid's move that's the world we live in. If you look at Blake, Breck, and SPU's rosters,include Hill and Cretin even BSM there are very few parents that can't afford to send their kids to that school. Marshall I can't comment on but I am sure it is close to the same. I would be willing to bet that the parents that are sending these kids to the private schools think that the education is superior. I personally think High school is high school but that is another discussion. This happens in all sports not Just girls hockey. The haves attract from the have nots at least the MSHSl stopped the movement of varsity athletes during the year. No system is going to be perfect. The minute a rule is made you are going to have a person look for a loop hole and exploit that loop hole.

Mavs
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Post by Mavs » Tue Feb 28, 2017 2:25 pm

zambonidriver wrote:Really who cares. We are not living in the 70's anymore. Kid's move that's the world we live in. If you look at Blake, Breck, and SPU's rosters,include Hill and Cretin even BSM there are very few parents that can't afford to send their kids to that school. Marshall I can't comment on but I am sure it is close to the same. I would be willing to bet that the parents that are sending these kids to the private schools think that the education is superior. I personally think High school is high school but that is another discussion. This happens in all sports not Just girls hockey. The haves attract from the have nots at least the MSHSl stopped the movement of varsity athletes during the year. No system is going to be perfect. The minute a rule is made you are going to have a person look for a loop hole and exploit that loop hole.
What does that have to do with playing AA vs A?

MN_Bowhunter
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Post by MN_Bowhunter » Tue Feb 28, 2017 2:33 pm

Mavs wrote:
zambonidriver wrote:Really who cares. We are not living in the 70's anymore. Kid's move that's the world we live in. If you look at Blake, Breck, and SPU's rosters,include Hill and Cretin even BSM there are very few parents that can't afford to send their kids to that school. Marshall I can't comment on but I am sure it is close to the same. I would be willing to bet that the parents that are sending these kids to the private schools think that the education is superior. I personally think High school is high school but that is another discussion. This happens in all sports not Just girls hockey. The haves attract from the have nots at least the MSHSl stopped the movement of varsity athletes during the year. No system is going to be perfect. The minute a rule is made you are going to have a person look for a loop hole and exploit that loop hole.
What does that have to do with playing AA vs A?
Nothing, Zam's stuck on school recruiting for some reason, which is actually different than shopping your kid around the metro like you're Jerry Effin Maguire.

zambonidriver
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Post by zambonidriver » Tue Feb 28, 2017 2:55 pm

my point is who cares A or AA just play. If a an school plays a AA schedule let them If they can be successful more power to them.

Mavs
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Post by Mavs » Tue Feb 28, 2017 3:46 pm

zambonidriver wrote:my point is who cares A or AA just play. If a an school plays a AA schedule let them If they can be successful more power to them.
You need to make an argument that its good for Blake? Of course it is.

Playing the top end AA schedule is a HUGE benefit to Blake. It literally does nothing for the AA schools as they could schedule Hill Murray, Cretin, Edina, Blaine, MG, EP etc instead. Blake needs the top AA schools, the top AA schools don't need Blake.

If the top AA schools realized this, Blake would have no interest in playing a crappy schedule and winning 10-0 20+ times and want to move up to get that top tier competition.

Mavs
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Post by Mavs » Tue Feb 28, 2017 3:57 pm

Its also, be careful what you wish for as they could move up to AA and mop up.

zambonidriver
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Post by zambonidriver » Wed Mar 01, 2017 11:24 am


massalsa
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Post by massalsa » Wed Mar 01, 2017 12:29 pm

I think that JG & Lace'emUP had the best idea.

There is clearly some benefit for the AA schools to play B, B, and SPU. Otherwise they would not do it.

Again I hope that they all move up but would imagine that it will be Blake if any...

thegreatone99
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Post by thegreatone99 » Wed Mar 01, 2017 1:16 pm

More fun Strib comments


Becky · about 3 hours
Guess what, no one cares about Blake and their state class A titles, there is no pride in beating teams where there is a clear mis-match to Blake's advantage...so you can dominate smaller schools?..congratulations, you should be able to beat them, that's a given. But what is there to really celebrate in that circumstance? ....I can beat a 3 year old in a hockey game, but you don't see me pretending that makes me great. Put some pride in your program and move up to AA.
Reply


Ruth · 2 days
As a grandparent and dedicated hockey fan, I had the opportunity to watch Blake play multiple times this year: all 3 State games, Kaposia classic games, Edina and Breck at Sections. With no family there (my husband is just a hockey freak), here is what I observed: - very talented team that deserves everyone's respect. They are still a very young team led mostly by sophomores and freshmen (just watch 6, 7, and 8) Coach Reid played everyone nearly equally (even vs Edina). They beat Edina as the Miracle Man reports below (... thanks Rob, I still vividly remember watching the 80 Olympic game vs Soviets), but they also beat Blaine, Elk River, Centennial, Wayzata, Eastview, and a few other AA schools but lost to tough Eden Prairie and Hill Murray teams. They had to play and beat their arch rival Breck three times and held Ms Hockey, Grace Zumwinkle to one point in 5 of last 6 games... that's hard to do.
The point of sharing this is to leave no doubt that Blake is certainly a worthy, legitimate, and very deserving champion at any level.

I agree that Blake should move up. They will probably do it not to passify people like Ogie and Jack Sparrow (your editorial is boring by the way) but to "do the right thing" for their school and players. As a former educator, "jumping up" to AA level isn't as easy as one thinks. Adjusting for other sports will be Blakes' most difficult challenge as bigger schools in football and basketball will simply not want to play them as they just won't be competive in those sports.

Hats off to Shawn Reid and particularly Sami Reber (1st female coach to win State... and as a rookie nonetheless). Both Edina and Blake are deserving champions. Maybe next year they will play against one another at State so these two "bozos" below can say they made our hockey community a better place.

By the way, if you are going to call out Blake and "small private schools", you ought to legitimize your argument and research how open enrollment allows any student to switch school districts and play at virtually any public school, or the current and past number of student athletes whose parents rent "empty apartments" just to prove they "relocated" so their child (particularly in boys hockey) can get around the one year MSHL rule and play for a school in another district the very next season. Both AA schools and single A public/private in both large and rural communities (you might as well check northern schools too) should be just as scrutinized.

thegreatone99
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Post by thegreatone99 » Fri Mar 10, 2017 4:21 pm

FINALLY they grew a PAIR

Blake requests opt-up to Class 2A
By By David La Vaque03/10/2017, 11:45am CST
The Bears are requesting a move in both genders of hockey and boys' tennis
Print This Page Bookmark and Share Font Size: - / +
The Blake School is requesting to opt up to Class 2A in three sports, most notably its successful yet often scrutinized girls’ hockey program.

The private school, with campuses in Minneapolis and Hopkins, made the announcement public on Friday, posting a new release to its website. In addition to girls’ hockey, Blake wants to move up in boys’ hockey and boys’ tennis.

The Minnesota State High School League will make its decision by the end of March. If approved, Blake's hockey teams and boys' tennis team would play postseason games among the larger schools in the deeper and more challenging Class 2A for the 2017-18 and 2018-19 seasons.

Schools are classified by their enrollment in two-year cycles but can request to move sports programs up or down based on different circumstances.

The Bears won their seventh girls’ hockey state tournament title this season, the most by any team. All seven came in the small-school class. Moving to Class 2A would follow a path taken by the St. Thomas Academy boys’ hockey program. Before making the move, the Cadets drew vocal criticism for sustained dominance at the Class 1A level.

The Blake boys’ tennis team has won 16 state titles, all in Class 1A, including three in the past four years.

“The most important factor for Blake in requesting this change of classification for hockey and boys’ tennis is to provide a positive experience for our student-athletes — one that allows for safe competition, appropriate challenges and meaningful experiences,” Nick Rathmann, director of athletics, said in a news release. “Our goal is to help student-athletes reach their full potential and offer them a solid foundation for continued academic and athletic success in college and beyond.”

More from the news release:

Blake’s decision to opt up in these sports was informed by an ongoing, multi-year evaluation of all of the school’s MSHSL-affiliated programs. The process draws on quantitative data for each sport, such as state tournament appearances, state tournament titles, wins and losses, number of coaches, wins over high-class opponents, collegiate players from the program and college-committed players already in the program over the range of years.

The process also includes qualitative perspectives from stakeholders and community members, such as coaches, administrators, parents, guardians, alumni and colleagues at peer institutions and at the collegiate level.

While community input is part of the process, Blake’s decision to opt up in any sport is made at the school-level, not at the department, program or team level.

Blake hockey and boys’ tennis teams will remain a part of the Independent Metro Athletic Conference (IMAC) and will play conference opponents such as Providence Academy, Minnehaha Academy, Mounds Park Academy, Breck and St. Paul Academy. The teams will also have essentially the same regular season schedules as they have had in recent years, which means the level of competition will be consistent with past seasons. Opting up will not impact the operations or opportunities offered through Blake’s junior varsity programs or any other Blake sports or teams.

“Blake’s decision to opt up in competition for these programs is deeply aligned with our mission and core values,” Head of School Anne Stavney said in the news release. “Blake seeks to challenge, educate and support our students in an integrated program of academic, artistic and athletic activities. Our intent to change the classification for team competition in these sports will serve our students well during their time at Blake and in the years to come.”

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