AA vs. A

[kniven]

I find mysel changing my tune on high school girls A vs. AA hockey in CEC. I'm an idiot, but I do think now that the Lumberjacks of CEC belong in 7A vs. 7AA. I talked to a hockey old-timer this season at the rink. His word/thoughts/opinions on this are not coming from an idiot like myself when it comes to hockey. I'm always a fan first of the kids. Our youth girls program consists of 3 teams in total and they are all b teams. We fall in the A enrollment and our program is very, very small. The girls are amazing and are larger than life. I think these girls should compete in 7A in high school until we establish a AA youth hockey program in girls puck. [/list]

[MNHockeyFan]

I find mysel changing my tune on high school girls A vs. AA hockey in CEC. I'm an idiot, but I do think now that the Lumberjacks of CEC belong in 7A vs. 7AA. I talked to a hockey old-timer this season at the rink. His word/thoughts/opinions on this are not coming from an idiot like myself when it comes to hockey. I'm always a fan first of the kids. Our youth girls program consists of 3 teams in total and they are all b teams. We fall in the A enrollment and our program is very, very small. The girls are amazing and are larger than life. I think these girls should compete in 7A in high school until we establish a AA youth hockey program in girls puck. [/list]

I suppose the AD would have the final say, or at least very strong input, into making such a move? Is it safe to assume that if enough hockey parents in the community got on board with it and lobbied the AD he or she would have an open mind? Do you think they would even consider making such a move even if the boy's team prefers to stay at AA?
(I've been around here long enough to remember when Cloquet had some very strong teams, strong enough to be competitive with some of the best and biggest in the metro - same with Grand Rapids also.).

[kniven]

I find mysel changing my tune on high school girls A vs. AA hockey in CEC. I'm an idiot, but I do think now that the Lumberjacks of CEC belong in 7A vs. 7AA. I talked to a hockey old-timer this season at the rink. His word/thoughts/opinions on this are not coming from an idiot like myself when it comes to hockey. I'm always a fan first of the kids. Our youth girls program consists of 3 teams in total and they are all b teams. We fall in the A enrollment and our program is very, very small. The girls are amazing and are larger than life. I think these girls should compete in 7A in high school until we establish a AA youth hockey program in girls puck. [/list]

I suppose the AD would have the final say, or at least very strong input, into making such a move? Is it safe to assume that if enough hockey parents in the community got on board with it and lobbied the AD he or she would have an open mind? Do you think they would even consider making such a move even if the boy's team prefers to stay at AA?
(I've been around here long enough to remember when Cloquet had some very strong teams, strong enough to be competitive with some of the best and biggest in the metro - same with Grand Rapids also.).

I don't know. Where ever we play....I'm behind 100%. I just now definitely see an argument for 7A for our girls. I mean.....the A programs have a larger youth girls program than we have. As far as the boys program....AA is definitely where they belong.

[zambonidriver]

http://www.pinejournal.com/sports/42353 ... play-class

[MNHockeyFan]

http://www.pinejournal.com/sports/42353 ... play-class

A good decision, IMO.

However one clarification on this point made in the article:
"According to current rules, programs and combined programs with enrollments of 1,200 students and over must play in Class AA...."

There is the exception for certain combined programs that meet the "free or reduced lunch" criteria, in which case they can petition the league to compete in Class A. The most obvious example here would be the St. Paul Blades, a co-op of six high schools (Central, Como Park, Harding, Highland Park, Johnson and Great River School). Sadly, despite the huge combined enrollment, they are still not competitive in A.

[zambonidriver]

http://www.pinejournal.com/sports/42353 ... play-class

A good decision, IMO.

However one clarification on this point made in the article:
"According to current rules, programs and combined programs with enrollments of 1,200 students and over must play in Class AA...."

There is the exception for certain combined programs that meet the "free or reduced lunch" criteria, in which case they can petition the league to compete in Class A. The most obvious example here would be the St. Paul Blades, a co-op of six high schools (Central, Como Park, Harding, Highland Park, Johnson and Great River School). Sadly, despite the huge combined enrollment, they are still not competitive in A.

CEC may not have had the best record but were very competitive. They beat us and were in most of their games. Great work ethic and some good talent.

[kniven]

http://www.pinejournal.com/sports/42353 ... play-class

Oh wow! I had no idea. I thought I was just starting a conversation. Well, I'll be a son-of-a-gun.....

[pepperpot]

I love that Super said it was a mistake. He's full of it. Courtney wanted to switch and every parent I spoke with said so too. Now maybe we can start building up the youth program again. A realistic chance of our girls making it to state finally. Marshall will be good. The Mirage lost all of their goal scorers and have troubles in net. Hibbing will be down with iozo and rewerts graduating. Moose lost the twins so they'll be down. Eveleth Falls and 2harbors is barely getting enough players. Predicition is cloquet and marshall in the final. Time to cut some wood girls!

[kniven]

I love that Super said it was a mistake. He's full of it. Courtney wanted to switch and every parent I spoke with said so too. Now maybe we can start building up the youth program again. A realistic chance of our girls making it to state finally. Marshall will be good. The Mirage lost all of their goal scorers and have troubles in net. Hibbing will be down with iozo and rewerts graduating. Moose lost the twins so they'll be down. Eveleth Falls and 2harbors is barely getting enough players. Predicition is cloquet and marshall in the final. Time to cut some wood girls!

[kniven]

I love that Super said it was a mistake. He's full of it. Courtney wanted to switch and every parent I spoke with said so too. Now maybe we can start building up the youth program again. A realistic chance of our girls making it to state finally. Marshall will be good. The Mirage lost all of their goal scorers and have troubles in net. Hibbing will be down with iozo and rewerts graduating. Moose lost the twins so they'll be down. Eveleth Falls and 2harbors is barely getting enough players. Predicition is cloquet and marshall in the final. Time to cut some wood girls!

ProctorHermantown u15a girls went to state so they reload. Cloquet reloads with a U12b team that went to state.

[Mavs]

So are White Bear Lake, Roseville, Apple Valley, Eastview, Rosemount moving to class A then?

They don't have 90 girls at each age to choose from like the Cloquet coach/admin said

.500 is never good enough anymore, you have to be able to go to state

BTW, I know zero about CEC's situation so its not about them

There are about 5 associations with huge youth numbers (on the girls side) and then everyone else. Even Eden Prairie doesn't have great numbers at youth.

[MNHockeyFan]

There are about 5 associations with huge youth numbers (on the girls side) and then everyone else.

Edina, Minnetonka, ________, ________ and ________.

[kniven]

So are White Bear Lake, Roseville, Apple Valley, Eastview, Rosemount moving to class A then?

They don't have 90 girls at each age to choose from like the Cloquet coach/admin said

.500 is never good enough anymore, you have to be able to go to state

BTW, I know zero about CEC's situation so its not about them

There are about 5 associations with huge youth numbers (on the girls side) and then everyone else. Even Eden Prairie doesn't have great numbers at youth.

I hear what your saying mav, absolutely. CEC has 2 u10b and 1 U12b team in their youth arsenal. It's been that way for awhile.

[nu2hockey]

There are about 5 associations with huge youth numbers (on the girls side) and then everyone else.

Edina, Minnetonka, ________, ________ and ________.

Wayzata, Blaine,, Maple Grove?

[MNHockeyFan]

There are about 5 associations with huge youth numbers (on the girls side) and then everyone else.

Edina, Minnetonka, ________, ________ and ________.

Wayzata, Blaine,, Maple Grove?

Looking at the LPH rankings it looks like Andover has some talent in their youth ranks. They're No. 1 at both the 15U A and 12U A. BUT, neither of their B teams at those levels are ranked, so maybe it's a case of fewer, but some very talented, players in their association.

http://letsplay.pointstreaksites.com/vi ... ings/youth

[Mavs]

There are about 5 associations with huge youth numbers (on the girls side) and then everyone else.

Edina, Minnetonka, ________, ________ and ________.

Edina, Minnetonka, Wayzata, OMG, Stillwater, Andover???
Huge numbers is prob pushing it for some of these. My point was its not like the top 20 AA teams all have huge youth programs. Very few have huge numbers.

[MNHockeyFan]

My point was its not like the top 20 AA teams all have huge youth programs. Very few have huge numbers.

My sense is that numbers are down across most youth programs, compared to say what they were 10 years ago. Back then there were many individual associations that had both an A and a B team at each age level, U10, U12 and U14, and for the most part girls played in their age group. Since then a good number of those former stand-alone associations have had to form co-ops. Those programs that have co-opted or disappeared altogether seem to have outpaced those that have gained, with the result being fewer numbers, overall. Yet the level of play of the top players, and the top high school programs, seems to have to improved.

But from a pure numbers standpoint it seems that participation has declined, or at best has leveled off, in the past 10 years. If this is accurate I would attribute the lack of growth primarily to:
(a) the ever-increasing cost of youth hockey compared to other girls sports and activities, and
(b) demographics, which is very much tied into (a) but also population (generational) changes, and possibly
(c) the perception that hockey is dangerous relative to other sport/activity options (see ongoing concussion thread above).

I'd be interested in hearing any other comments/opinions on the numbers issue, including any hard numbers anyone might point to.

[Mavs]

The recession was a big part of it and some went down and then recovered and some didn't recover?

Some areas have declining enrollment but does that affect girls hockey more than boys? White Bear Lake seems to be doing great on the boys side but dying on the girls side? Lack of leadership in the girls program?

Forest Lake shouldn't have the numbers but are doing well? better leadership?

Edina, Minnetonka, Wayzata simply have numbers.

Lakeville should have more numbers due to population, right? Woodbury should be up there with the biggest of the them all due to a large young pupulation but are not on the girls side? why?

At the youth U12 and U10 ages you see a lot of the big population associations having success.

I think you are right, the level of play and top end talent keeps growing. Does that factor in? Is it harder for a smaller association to compete due to top end talent thus making it less attractive to go out for hockey and get smoked? not sure

Are the numbers actually down overall or is it just down in the inner ring suburbs where the population is aging?

[thegreatone99]

The recession was a big part of it and some went down and then recovered and some didn't recover?

Some areas have declining enrollment but does that affect girls hockey more than boys? White Bear Lake seems to be doing great on the boys side but dying on the girls side? Lack of leadership in the girls program?

Forest Lake shouldn't have the numbers but are doing well? better leadership?

Edina, Minnetonka, Wayzata simply have numbers.

Lakeville should have more numbers due to population, right? Woodbury should be up there with the biggest of the them all due to a large young pupulation but are not on the girls side? why?

At the youth U12 and U10 ages you see a lot of the big population associations having success.

I think you are right, the level of play and top end talent keeps growing. Does that factor in? Is it harder for a smaller association to compete due to top end talent thus making it less attractive to go out for hockey and get smoked? not sure

Are the numbers actually down overall or is it just down in the inner ring suburbs where the population is aging?

Maybe all the girls in the smaller associations should just strike against the larger ones and refuse to play until they are paid.