2017 HP thread...

Discussion of Minnesota Girls High School Hockey

Moderators: Mitch Hawker, east hockey, karl(east)

Mavs
Posts: 448
Joined: Tue Apr 28, 2015 10:35 am

Post by Mavs » Fri May 19, 2017 9:28 am

IceHiker wrote:
NORTHWOODS HOCKEY wrote: There is a lot more that goes into the selection process, than just the one weekend's on ice performance. Maybe that needs to be communicated more. A player that appears to cut the ice better, appears to have better vision, and looks to be more skilled, may have presented some other qualities that are not conducive to what they are looking for.

That does leave it open for questioning, especially for those not involved and why people do want and request feedback.

There are players that I was surprised didn't make what I expected, but as Mavs states, they may not be the same players that another was surprised by.
You are correct that the selections process is not just the weekend. A player that played in 1 game over that weekend still made 66s. Yes, she is a good player but was only evaluated for 1 game.

And YES you are correct that we along with the selection committee will not see players the same. That is the reason for multiple evaluators.
Yes, last year someone moved on after playing zero games. The weekend evaluation might be 25% and 75% is MN Hockey either already determined basing on reputation, etc or just has the final say and it doesn't matter how player X played if MN Hockey either wants or doesn't want her to move on for whatever reason.

If Jenny has two ** next to her name before the weekend and Cindy has **** it will be very difficult for Jenny to play herself in over Cindy. Can it happen? Certainly but the deck is stacked. Not even saying this is wrong, just saying they should be authentic about the process and for sure need to ditch the 50% turnover language as that is clearly outdated. There is no perfect way and they do a good job overall.

Lace'emUp
Posts: 252
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2011 10:37 am

Post by Lace'emUp » Sun May 21, 2017 1:25 pm

See the link to my post from a couple years ago regarding turnover rates at the section level for the HP17 spring festival (the 1998 group). This is nothing new.

http://www.ushsho.com/forums/viewtopic. ... ht=#678142

thegreatone99
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All this over silly HP

Post by thegreatone99 » Mon May 22, 2017 12:32 am

Come on girls, stop fighting, are you saying the selection process is not fair?

And the girls game continues to grow? Pretty soon there will be only two D1 WCHA schools left. Wisc and Gophs, just like the Olympics with USA and Canada. Real excitement.

Stop the nonsense chasing the HP dream for little Suzy.

Mavs
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Joined: Tue Apr 28, 2015 10:35 am

Re: All this over silly HP

Post by Mavs » Mon May 22, 2017 2:12 pm

thegreatone99 wrote:Come on girls, stop fighting, are you saying the selection process is not fair?

And the girls game continues to grow? Pretty soon there will be only two D1 WCHA schools left. Wisc and Gophs, just like the Olympics with USA and Canada. Real excitement.

Stop the nonsense chasing the HP dream for little Suzy.
I think most are saying they do a pretty good job.

massalsa
Posts: 577
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 6:37 pm

Post by massalsa » Mon May 22, 2017 3:32 pm

Time for a 15 minute stream of consciousness ramble...

Why do girls do HP?

Is it for more hockey?

I believe that is NOT the case as there are PLENTY of options for more hockey...at least in the extended metro area. Also the timing is really bad for lots of people's spring breaks.

Is it to play for team USA?

This is really only an option for about 10% of the girls that make district teams. I would guess that many REALLY good hockey players in MN (that will most likely play D1 hockey) know that they have NO shot at making the U18 team.

Is it for exposure to college scouts and college programs?

If that is the case it seems as if those scouts only come to the 15's/54 weekend. I would think that the non WCHA or hockey power house teams want to get a look at some 15's before some others schools scoop them up. How important is it to these schools recruiting them that these kids make 54's? Can it be a negative if a kid try's out, makes section team and then does NOT make 54's? I am guessing that most kids that play D1 or get some scholarship help do would make their section team (how many kids are on current D1 rosters that did NOT play HP or did NOT make their section team?!?)

Can one build a case that trying out and playing HP if you have are a bubble kid to be one of the best 30 forwards or 18 Defense should NOT even waste their time with HP? Especially if they play don't light up the HS circuit so they are not in the preferred category coming in to HP stuff? I think the answer to that might be YES. Sad but true. In MN you cant make U18 camp if you do not make 54's at 16 or 17. There are more kids per year from MN on D1 rosters every year than make it to U18 or 66 camp. Where do those kids come from?

I could ramble more but would be interested in someone's thoughts on a recommendation to future HP kids like this:

Go for it on HP for age 15. There is the most exposure and bang for your buck to make a MN camp (100 or so girls) and then try for U15 National camp (roughly 40-45 girls). If you do not think that realistically you do not have a chance at being one of the top 30 2002 (next years class) Forwards or 18 Defense then don't waste your time. You might be wasting your time if you don't think you are in the top 20 as the board and many have stated that numbers 21-40 might be in essence the same player (but has more *** by her name as Mavs said) and then it is a crapshoot as to who makes it (maybe you did not score 30+ points for your suburban school in a tough conference and you will be passed over by the outstate kid that scores 30+ points against arguably weaker competition...hence the ***). The HP section training is probably average at best and the costs are about average if you are looking for ice time and not doing HP for the prize of National Camps or beyond. Just go to spring break with your family and enjoy an extra 2-3 months of hockey time off. Then hit it hard May thru July and then take time off until September. Maybe use the extra $$$ that you save NOT doing HP and get some power skating lessons or specialized instruction in the summer or fall.

Now back to work...

Nevertoomuchhockey
Posts: 1138
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Post by Nevertoomuchhockey » Tue May 23, 2017 6:23 am

massalsa wrote:Time for a 15 minute stream of consciousness ramble...

Why do girls do HP?

Is it for more hockey?

I believe that is NOT the case as there are PLENTY of options for more hockey...at least in the extended metro area. Also the timing is really bad for lots of people's spring breaks.

Is it to play for team USA?

This is really only an option for about 10% of the girls that make district teams. I would guess that many REALLY good hockey players in MN (that will most likely play D1 hockey) know that they have NO shot at making the U18 team.

Is it for exposure to college scouts and college programs?

If that is the case it seems as if those scouts only come to the 15's/54 weekend. I would think that the non WCHA or hockey power house teams want to get a look at some 15's before some others schools scoop them up. How important is it to these schools recruiting them that these kids make 54's? Can it be a negative if a kid try's out, makes section team and then does NOT make 54's? I am guessing that most kids that play D1 or get some scholarship help do would make their section team (how many kids are on current D1 rosters that did NOT play HP or did NOT make their section team?!?)

Can one build a case that trying out and playing HP if you have are a bubble kid to be one of the best 30 forwards or 18 Defense should NOT even waste their time with HP? Especially if they play don't light up the HS circuit so they are not in the preferred category coming in to HP stuff? I think the answer to that might be YES. Sad but true. In MN you cant make U18 camp if you do not make 54's at 16 or 17. There are more kids per year from MN on D1 rosters every year than make it to U18 or 66 camp. Where do those kids come from?

I could ramble more but would be interested in someone's thoughts on a recommendation to future HP kids like this:

Go for it on HP for age 15. There is the most exposure and bang for your buck to make a MN camp (100 or so girls) and then try for U15 National camp (roughly 40-45 girls). If you do not think that realistically you do not have a chance at being one of the top 30 2002 (next years class) Forwards or 18 Defense then don't waste your time. You might be wasting your time if you don't think you are in the top 20 as the board and many have stated that numbers 21-40 might be in essence the same player (but has more *** by her name as Mavs said) and then it is a crapshoot as to who makes it (maybe you did not score 30+ points for your suburban school in a tough conference and you will be passed over by the outstate kid that scores 30+ points against arguably weaker competition...hence the ***). The HP section training is probably average at best and the costs are about average if you are looking for ice time and not doing HP for the prize of National Camps or beyond. Just go to spring break with your family and enjoy an extra 2-3 months of hockey time off. Then hit it hard May thru July and then take time off until September. Maybe use the extra $$$ that you save NOT doing HP and get some power skating lessons or specialized instruction in the summer or fall.

Now back to work...
One of the best posts to ever appear on the forum.

Mavs
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Post by Mavs » Tue May 23, 2017 8:17 am

Great post.

Lets face it, its all about the $ too.

The 15's cut to 30 in order to get more $ from kids, although it isn't that much $ so some may look at it as relatively inexpensive practice but for those in spring sports its more of a pain. The district or section teams would be better at 3 lines instead of 4. The 4th line kids are not in line for the national camp or 54 with a rare exception of a completely loaded district/section. The festival would be much better with 15 skaters instead of 18. It would be better hockey and more ice time/evaluation time for the players. Are the 4th line kids that played JV (for example) even getting evaluated? Just like the so called **** kids already having it semi-paved in stone before they show up, are the bottom end kids written off before they do anything? In my opinion 3 lines would drastically improve the already pretty good hockey. I don't think it would ever happen as they would say if it aint broke, don't fix it.

AAA Dad
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Post by AAA Dad » Tue Jun 06, 2017 9:26 pm

http://assets.ngin.com/attachments/docu ... ebsite.pdf

U18 Select 66 National Camp Scrimmage Rosters are out.

goaliedad31
Posts: 182
Joined: Tue Apr 16, 2013 2:17 am

Post by goaliedad31 » Sun Jun 11, 2017 6:38 am

Day 1 of the 15's under the belt. Any observations?
http://www.minnesotahockey.org/page/sho ... ummer-camp

Iceburg
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Location: Maplewood

Post by Iceburg » Thu Jun 22, 2017 12:40 am


IceHiker
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Post by IceHiker » Thu Jun 22, 2017 7:40 am

And with the announcement of players to the 15s Nat and the additional 16s / 17s on the National roster we start to receive emails from Elite League with new opening for the tryouts this weekend (all National Camp selectees are invited to tryout). Some parents even getting the invite to tryout before they receive the email / phone call from MN Hockey that their daughter has been selected for the National Camp.

Who was it that said a certain person had nothing to do with MN Hockey and the selection process? How would this organization receive a final list of National players so quickly to send out a tailored email?

Congratulation to all the 15s and additional 16s/17s being selected for the 2017 USA Hockey National Developmental Camps. With this selection your future has taken one step closer to the road of college hockey.

Mavs
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Post by Mavs » Thu Jun 22, 2017 8:29 am

IceHiker wrote:And with the announcement of players to the 15s Nat and the additional 16s / 17s on the National roster we start to receive emails from Elite League with new opening for the tryouts this weekend (all National Camp selectees are invited to tryout). Some parents even getting the invite to tryout before they receive the email / phone call from MN Hockey that their daughter has been selected for the National Camp.

Who was it that said a certain person had nothing to do with MN Hockey and the selection process? How would this organization receive a final list of National players so quickly to send out a tailored email?

Congratulation to all the 15s and additional 16s/17s being selected for the 2017 USA Hockey National Developmental Camps. With this selection your future has taken one step closer to the road of college hockey.
Kids not invited to national camp are also invited to tryout for Elite League so they may receive a list of those in consideration for national camp or just have a list of top end players in general. I think you are doing a 2+2=5 here? Facts plus preconceived information has a variable that you can't put into the equation and come up with an exact answer. I'm not saying you are wrong, just saying be careful with stating what you believe to be true as the 100% truth.

IceHiker
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Post by IceHiker » Thu Jun 22, 2017 10:02 am

Mavs wrote: Kids not invited to national camp are also invited to tryout for Elite League so they may receive a list of those in consideration for national camp or just have a list of top end players in general. I think you are doing a 2+2=5 here? Facts plus preconceived information has a variable that you can't put into the equation and come up with an exact answer. I'm not saying you are wrong, just saying be careful with stating what you believe to be true as the 100% truth.
You are correct and I have been around this game we love longer than most. My 2+2=5 equation has a variable that most do not like to talk about. I find it more than a coincidence that 9 players that were added to the list all received the same email yesterday where others did not. A consideration list, maybe. But is that list given to all programs out there to recruit players?

Once again, I look at this with an open mind and love to see the progression of young players to the best athletes in the country. MN hockey has a strong tradition to live up to and I would never want to see anything tarnish that tradition.

Its time to make the trip out to the East and see how the MN girls perform against the other top players in the country. 66 camp is always a fun one to watch for the next best players for Team USA.

nu2hockey
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Post by nu2hockey » Thu Jun 22, 2017 10:24 am

Not many spots in the Elite League to tryout for...
U19 D & G would appear to be full from Select 66 kids , Forwards could have as few as 3 spots to tryout for...

The U16 looks worse because of the bloated numbers from the doubling of 15 Nat invitees by USA Hockey ...the 15"s alone fill the D &G with only 8 F spots open...my guess is that the 01 national kids that aren't in U19 get spots at U16 then the 02's tryout to fill rest of U16 spots...but that is just a guess...

AAA Dad
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Post by AAA Dad » Thu Jun 22, 2017 11:45 am

IceHiker wrote:
Mavs wrote: Kids not invited to national camp are also invited to tryout for Elite League so they may receive a list of those in consideration for national camp or just have a list of top end players in general. I think you are doing a 2+2=5 here? Facts plus preconceived information has a variable that you can't put into the equation and come up with an exact answer. I'm not saying you are wrong, just saying be careful with stating what you believe to be true as the 100% truth.
You are correct and I have been around this game we love longer than most. My 2+2=5 equation has a variable that most do not like to talk about. I find it more than a coincidence that 9 players that were added to the list all received the same email yesterday where others did not. A consideration list, maybe. But is that list given to all programs out there to recruit players?

Once again, I look at this with an open mind and love to see the progression of young players to the best athletes in the country. MN hockey has a strong tradition to live up to and I would never want to see anything tarnish that tradition.

Its time to make the trip out to the East and see how the MN girls perform against the other top players in the country. 66 camp is always a fun one to watch for the next best players for Team USA.

According to "Neural Zone" (the amateur hockey player ranking website which is becoming the clear leader in doing this nationally) it appears that future graduation MN HS classes continue to improve. I know some on this forum have said that the high end talent has faded after the last graduating class or 2 have left so I thought I would confirm my own thoughts that the class to come has just as much 'high end talent" by National rankings.

Per Neutral Zone National Ranking numbers.


2017 Top 5 (1) Top 10 (2) Top15 (3) Top 25 (3) Top 50 (14) Top 100 (19)

2018 Top 5 (3) Top 10 (5) Top 15 (7) Top 25 (10)Top 50 (16) Top 100 (23)

IceHiker
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Post by IceHiker » Thu Jun 22, 2017 12:39 pm

AAA Dad wrote: According to "Neural Zone" (the amateur hockey player ranking website which is becoming the clear leader in doing this nationally) it appears that future graduation MN HS classes continue to improve. I know some on this forum have said that the high end talent has faded after the last graduating class or 2 have left so I thought I would confirm my own thoughts that the class to come has just as much 'high end talent" by National rankings.

Per Neutral Zone National Ranking numbers.


2017 Top 5 (1) Top 10 (2) Top15 (3) Top 25 (3) Top 50 (14) Top 100 (19)

2018 Top 5 (3) Top 10 (5) Top 15 (7) Top 25 (10)Top 50 (16) Top 100 (23)
2018 Graduating class never was in question as they are one of the strongest and deepest 'grades' MN has produced. With the talented 99 and 00 birth years making up this class we should be proud.

What is in question would be the birth years of 2001 and 2002. Considering most of the top players in the graduating class of 2019 are 2000 birth year players it will take more time for those players to be ranked at Neural Zone.

Mavs
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Post by Mavs » Thu Jun 22, 2017 1:04 pm

nu2hockey wrote:Not many spots in the Elite League to tryout for...
U19 D & G would appear to be full from Select 66 kids , Forwards could have as few as 3 spots to tryout for...

The U16 looks worse because of the bloated numbers from the doubling of 15 Nat invitees by USA Hockey ...the 15"s alone fill the D &G with only 8 F spots open...my guess is that the 01 national kids that aren't in U19 get spots at U16 then the 02's tryout to fill rest of U16 spots...but that is just a guess...
I admittedly don't follow it closely enough but how many teams (players per team) at U19 and U16, how many return, etc?

IceHiker
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Post by IceHiker » Thu Jun 22, 2017 1:13 pm

Mavs wrote: I admittedly don't follow it closely enough but how many teams (players per team) at U19 and U16, how many return, etc?
3-4 U19 teams
3-4 U16 teams

Most all girls that played last year that have not graduated will return as the Elite League teams will once again maintain their Tier I status. Meaning this will be the best hockey in the Mid-West for the fall.

AAA Dad
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Joined: Wed Oct 02, 2013 12:25 pm

Post by AAA Dad » Thu Jun 22, 2017 1:28 pm

IceHiker wrote:
AAA Dad wrote: According to "Neural Zone" (the amateur hockey player ranking website which is becoming the clear leader in doing this nationally) it appears that future graduation MN HS classes continue to improve. I know some on this forum have said that the high end talent has faded after the last graduating class or 2 have left so I thought I would confirm my own thoughts that the class to come has just as much 'high end talent" by National rankings.

Per Neutral Zone National Ranking numbers.


2017 Top 5 (1) Top 10 (2) Top15 (3) Top 25 (3) Top 50 (14) Top 100 (19)

2018 Top 5 (3) Top 10 (5) Top 15 (7) Top 25 (10)Top 50 (16) Top 100 (23)

2018 Graduating class never was in question as they are one of the strongest and deepest 'grades' MN has produced. With the talented 99 and 00 birth years making up this class we should be proud.

What is in question would be the birth years of 2001 and 2002. Considering most of the top players in the graduating class of 2019 are 2000 birth year players it will take more time for those players to be ranked at Neural Zone.
Oh I heard people commenting on lack of high end players in this years Prospects which was ridiculous. The college team was given very competitive games by Black,Red,White and Grey in both 1st and 2nd Prospects weekends,

Neutral Zone has only 30 2019 players listed to date and MN is off to great start with 3 in the top 10 and 7 in top 26.

To think that MN talent will fall off the map has no merit. MN is miles ahead of rest of the country in having great training opportunities year round from very young age for those that take advantage of them. If female athletes stop going out for hockey in MN of course that would create a problem.

I want to comment that Neutral Zone ranks US and Canadian players together so really a North American ranking. MN would have much higher ranked and more players in top 100 Nationally without Canada of course.

IceHiker
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Post by IceHiker » Thu Jun 22, 2017 2:03 pm

AAA Dad wrote: Neutral Zone has only 30 2019 players listed to date and MN is off to great start with 3 in the top 10 and 7 in top 26.

To think that MN talent will fall off the map has no merit. MN is miles ahead of rest of the country in having great training opportunities year round from very young age for those that take advantage of them. If female athletes stop going out for hockey in MN of course that would create a problem.
My comments have never been about the 'rest of the country'. It has always pointed at the level of play between the 01-02 and 99-00. The 01-02 birth years do not have the depth of talent that the 99-00 birth years do in MN. You can look at Neutral Zone for the 2019 Grad year and see how many of those top 7 players are 00 birth year.

Once again, the 01s and 02s have some very talented players just not the same as the 00s or 99s I feel. Only time will tell and we have a front row seat.

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