Elite league

Discussion of Minnesota Girls High School Hockey

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j4241
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Elite league

Post by j4241 » Sat Jul 27, 2019 3:08 pm

Why is the Elite League run so differently on the girls side? No roster announcements, no stats - it seems odd to me that kids playing at that level aren’t celebrated a bit more - they should be!

BeauKnowsHockey
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Re: Elite league

Post by BeauKnowsHockey » Sat Jul 27, 2019 3:29 pm

I agree. I have reached out to them multiple times and offered to volunteer and help with stats... It’s basically what I do.
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MNHockeyFan
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Re: Elite league

Post by MNHockeyFan » Sat Jul 27, 2019 9:42 pm

Definitely seems like things have slipped over the years, in terms of info provided online... Hopefully folks here with girls in the league can provide updates.

Thoen88
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Re: Elite league

Post by Thoen88 » Sat Jul 27, 2019 9:50 pm

Spoken with people involved with the League and have never really gotten a straight answer to the question regarding the girls side. From the email that arrived it looks like players have until mid-August to register so i doubt any "final" rosters will be available until Fall sports start practicing.

massalsa
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Re: Elite league

Post by massalsa » Tue Jul 30, 2019 1:18 pm

I wish that they did statistics as well.

Girls Elite League is a great thing in its current form and the great things FAR outweigh the frustrating ones.

Some excellent things about GEL:

1a. It gives a bunch of girls an opportunity to play high end hockey in their own part of the state in the fall vs needing or choosing to travel for games in the first 2 months of school.

b. This includes the teams from the north that come down a couple of weekends each fall.

c. Their are college coaches at nearly every game (especially on the weekends). The only schools that I do not recall seeing here over the past couple of years are Boston College, Syracuse, Holy Cross (heard that is going to change), Robert Morris, & Lindenwood. (I absolutely could be wrong on that list).

d. Who else is Shattuck going to play that gives them any competition? (also is nice for the Wisconsin & Chicago Tier 1 teams to travel here rather than East all the time).

2. Girls get an opportunity to play in a generally relaxed place and have zero systems in place and zero practices which allows them to learn in a different way than most of the other ways they skate/practice/play.

3. Elite League (& OS in general) is probably the best value out there in terms of $$$ per minute/period/game/practice. They own the market but for sure could charge WAY more and people would complain but still pay it.

4. Elite League hosts a bunch of teams full of local girls. The success of this league also appears to have helped the other league(s) that are in the fall that allow LOTS of other girls to play in the fall. I would guess that there are maybe 20 teams with rosters of 15-20 on them playing in the fall in preparation for the HS season. This is in addition to some of the teams that schools have that also play in a league hosted by OS (I think).

Some not so great things about GEL:

1. The attendance piece is super relaxed so there are lots of girls that do not show up and then have games with some teams having 8 players or 25 players. The staff moves some players to the other team or games in some cases which helps but it is sort of a waste of time to be on a team that has 9 D and 14 F on the bench.

2. There are LOTS of girls that would do almost anything for some of those spots on teams with girls that don't care (already committed or just do not feel like playing or whatever) to show up. There are many reasons that girls miss that are legit (homecoming, they play a fall sport, etc) but many that are not. A more rigid/strict attendance policy would be great.

3. The numbers and rosters do not match up so well at times. Some of it is due to the point mentioned above but others are a mystery.

4. The statistics piece could be wrong on a regular basis with girls wearing different numbers on different teams that are not their regular team. I know having done some scoring each year (it is requested/assigned to a parent from each team each game) that scoring does happen but no one knows what happens to those score sheets once they are completed.

BeauKnowsHockey
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Re: Elite league

Post by BeauKnowsHockey » Tue Jul 30, 2019 9:52 pm

massalsa wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 1:18 pm
I wish that they did statistics as well.

Girls Elite League is a great thing in its current form and the great things FAR outweigh the frustrating ones.

Some excellent things about GEL:

1a. It gives a bunch of girls an opportunity to play high end hockey in their own part of the state in the fall vs needing or choosing to travel for games in the first 2 months of school.

b. This includes the teams from the north that come down a couple of weekends each fall.

c. Their are college coaches at nearly every game (especially on the weekends). The only schools that I do not recall seeing here over the past couple of years are Boston College, Syracuse, Holy Cross (heard that is going to change), Robert Morris, & Lindenwood. (I absolutely could be wrong on that list).

d. Who else is Shattuck going to play that gives them any competition? (also is nice for the Wisconsin & Chicago Tier 1 teams to travel here rather than East all the time).

2. Girls get an opportunity to play in a generally relaxed place and have zero systems in place and zero practices which allows them to learn in a different way than most of the other ways they skate/practice/play.

3. Elite League (& OS in general) is probably the best value out there in terms of $$$ per minute/period/game/practice. They own the market but for sure could charge WAY more and people would complain but still pay it.

4. Elite League hosts a bunch of teams full of local girls. The success of this league also appears to have helped the other league(s) that are in the fall that allow LOTS of other girls to play in the fall. I would guess that there are maybe 20 teams with rosters of 15-20 on them playing in the fall in preparation for the HS season. This is in addition to some of the teams that schools have that also play in a league hosted by OS (I think).

Some not so great things about GEL:

1. The attendance piece is super relaxed so there are lots of girls that do not show up and then have games with some teams having 8 players or 25 players. The staff moves some players to the other team or games in some cases which helps but it is sort of a waste of time to be on a team that has 9 D and 14 F on the bench.

2. There are LOTS of girls that would do almost anything for some of those spots on teams with girls that don't care (already committed or just do not feel like playing or whatever) to show up. There are many reasons that girls miss that are legit (homecoming, they play a fall sport, etc) but many that are not. A more rigid/strict attendance policy would be great.

3. The numbers and rosters do not match up so well at times. Some of it is due to the point mentioned above but others are a mystery.

4. The statistics piece could be wrong on a regular basis with girls wearing different numbers on different teams that are not their regular team. I know having done some scoring each year (it is requested/assigned to a parent from each team each game) that scoring does happen but no one knows what happens to those score sheets once they are completed.
Thank you for shedding some light on this. Who makes the calls on some of these decisions? Am I wrong to think that these cons you listed are fairly easily fixable with some stricter rules? Is there a committee I/we can get involved in? I feel like it wouldn’t take much to take this to the next level?

Thoughts?
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Lace'emUp
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Re: Elite league

Post by Lace'emUp » Wed Jul 31, 2019 10:47 am

In regard to massalsa's not-so-great-things-about-GEL, could attendance issues be cured by parents tossing down extra $$$ as an "attendance deposit"? If so, what $$$ amount would work and how many games can be missed? If you play a minimum amount of games, the deposit check is shredded. Obviously if someone becomes injured, they would be exempt from the deposit.

If an attendance deposit was required, it might weed out some players who know they will only show up half the time. This also could solve the problem of getting more "bubble" players in who want to play.

Attendance is taken. For a team to be eligible for US Nationals, players must play a minimum number of games to be eligible individually, and each team must have a minimum number of games played together with those eligible players. This also stands true for the players in Dynamo premier prep and the coaches association prep leagues. I do not know what the current minimums are, but I know at one point in the past, MNH minimums varied slightly from the minimums required by other USAH districts. I would assume the vetting and validating of rosters and attendance is done by MNH and reported to USAH.

As for stat-keeping (BeauKnowsHockey), I'd be surprised if you offered to volunteered your time to help and receive no response. The one thing all these leagues always need are volunteers. The issue is how do you get the scoresheet? Unless everything goes electronic, the coaches would have to take the time to scan or take the picture of the scoresheet and send it to you. Even then, some of the chicken-scratching on the sheets are barely legible. Electronic scoring/reporting would be the cure-all for this, but not all rinks have it.

bodyup88
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Re: Elite league

Post by bodyup88 » Thu Aug 01, 2019 10:42 am

Is this league truly "elite" if many of the players are no shows ? Does the boys' elite league have this issue? I doubt it. For those of you in the know, what's the difference.

j4241
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Re: Elite league

Post by j4241 » Thu Aug 01, 2019 1:16 pm

The boys are hoping for steps before and after college that make the elite league an important part of the process from an exposure standpoint. On the girls side, the very different recruiting situation has to be a big issue. Most of the juniors and senior girls playing have typically already been committed to play D1 hockey, and so the exposure value is almost non-existent to most players. Some may see it as an avenue to impress USA hockey for 18s consideration, but I don’t think there’s much evidence of that. I think kids choosing not to show up is understandable, because there isn’t any consequence to skipping once they are in, and there isn’t any real carrot to make them show up.

Truthfully, rather than using money as the way to enforce attendance, I think keeping stats would play a much bigger role. Most of those girls care about their reputation in hockey, and if stats were published showing how they compared to their peers on an equal playing field (unlike high school hockey), I think more would be motivated to show up and compete.

A separate issue - I’m curious about what sounds like a very different approach on the selection side this year. Last season there were a total of two 9th graders, both 03s, on tier 1 elite league teams. This does not include the supplementary teams (like E-train) which participated but were not really elite league teams (though there were a lot of good players on that one). It sounds like this year there are going to be many, many 04s, and at least a handful of 05s. I don’t know how many teams, but at least one more than the 3 last year, and perhaps as many as 6 in total. I’m aware of some names on the list of 04s and 05s, and some of those dip into strong but not top rising 9th graders. That’s a big change from how the girls league has been constructed in the past.

BeauKnowsHockey
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Re: Elite league

Post by BeauKnowsHockey » Thu Aug 01, 2019 1:27 pm

j4241 wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 1:16 pm
A separate issue - I’m curious about what sounds like a very different approach on the selection side this year. Last season there were a total of two 9th graders, both 03s, on tier 1 elite league teams. This does not include the supplementary teams (like E-train) which participated but were not really elite league teams (though there were a lot of good players on that one). It sounds like this year there are going to be many, many 04s, and at least a handful of 05s. I don’t know how many teams, but at least one more than the 3 last year, and perhaps as many as 6 in total. I’m aware of some names on the list of 04s and 05s, and some of those dip into strong but not top rising 9th graders. That’s a big change from how the girls league has been constructed in the past.
Could they be doing this shift in ages to combat all your points before? Maybe shifting focus to the younger, non-committed girls who will make it more of a priority to show up and play so they can get that offer?
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j4241
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Re: Elite league

Post by j4241 » Thu Aug 01, 2019 4:34 pm

Very possible - I’m sure it was intentional and with a purpose in mind. It will just change the competitive level of the league - make it a bit less elite. That may further diminish enthusiasm of the top, older kids from attending.

kniven
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Re: Elite league

Post by kniven » Fri Aug 02, 2019 1:39 pm

I’ve posted on this forum routinely since 2009. I try posting on this forum for the girls but it usually takes a year and a half for a response. Not enough interest state wide. Plain and simple I do really enjoy my CEC girls puck though. That doesn’t mean everybody else has to.
“218 hockey” Boys of the NOrth ❤️

j4241
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Re: Elite league

Post by j4241 » Sat Aug 03, 2019 4:19 pm

I have grown to love watching the girls game, too! I think the best thing we can do to support it is to be a positive and engaged fan. Please keep posting - more activity breeds more activity, and it’s fun for us fans and fun for the kids to have attention being paid to them as athletes.

MNHockeyFan
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Re: Elite league

Post by MNHockeyFan » Sat Aug 03, 2019 11:22 pm

j4241 wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 4:19 pm
I have grown to love watching the girls game, too! I think the best thing we can do to support it is to be a positive and engaged fan. Please keep posting - more activity breeds more activity, and it’s fun for us fans and fun for the kids to have attention being paid to them as athletes.
I think one of the problems that would explain what seems to be a declining interest in the girls' game, as reflected in the declining numbers of posts in this forum, is the detachment of parents from the game as soon as their hockey playing daughter has finished her hockey playing days. The decline in attendance and interest in the boys' game is similar, but for whatever reason not nearly to the same extent. I happen to enjoy both, years after our daughter finished her collegiate eligibility. But then again I'm a fairly typical fan, in that I retain season tickets to the Boys State AA Tournament, but not the girls (which our daughter competed in twice). However, for five seasons now I've been a Gopher women's season ticket holder, and enjoy watching those talented players play at such a high level, while also closely following the high school players who commit to Minnesota.

I'll always have fond memories of our daughter competing in the Elite League, especially those nail-biters against SSM, which at the time had tremendous star players like Decker and Kessel - they were obviously really good and were amazing with their skill level.

To parents of players competing in today's Elite League: enjoy every minute watching your daughter play; it passes by very quickly! But consider remaining engaged in the game, whether at the high school or college level, even after your own daughter(s) have completed their eligibility. It's a great game, and at the higher levels it can be so much fun to watch.

BeauKnowsHockey
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Re: Elite league

Post by BeauKnowsHockey » Sun Aug 25, 2019 11:02 pm

Girls Elite League starts a week from Tuesday and still no rosters announced... This. Is. Killing. Me!
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NORTHWOODS HOCKEY
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Re: Elite league

Post by NORTHWOODS HOCKEY » Mon Aug 26, 2019 7:53 am

BeauKnowsHockey wrote:
Sun Aug 25, 2019 11:02 pm
Girls Elite League starts a week from Tuesday and still no rosters announced... This. Is. Killing. Me!
Team assignments were sent last week. In the email, it indicates rosters will not be published until the start of the league.

BeauKnowsHockey
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Re: Elite league

Post by BeauKnowsHockey » Mon Aug 26, 2019 10:27 am

NORTHWOODS HOCKEY wrote:
Mon Aug 26, 2019 7:53 am
BeauKnowsHockey wrote:
Sun Aug 25, 2019 11:02 pm
Girls Elite League starts a week from Tuesday and still no rosters announced... This. Is. Killing. Me!
Team assignments were sent last week. In the email, it indicates rosters will not be published until the start of the league.
Oof. Ok...
Minnesota based volunteer for EliteProspects.com

Gotothenetman
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Re: Elite league

Post by Gotothenetman » Wed Aug 28, 2019 5:04 pm

I see now on the web site that it looks like the teams are posted without rosters.

Anyone know who some of the teams are beyond the JWC teams. Teams like Flow, Edge and Kwel?

Curious about the teams that make up the league.

massalsa
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Re: Elite league

Post by massalsa » Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:48 pm

The fact that there are not published rosters and more info out there is frustrating for sure. There are kids out there that are still waiting to find out what team they are on and others know their team for Elite League. The organization piece of these things appear to be a cost of doing business with OS/Whitecaps/Elite League. Tryouts were in June and USA hockey camps have been done for at least a month.

NAHA is this weekend. Was just looking at rosters and the only teams that I see at U19 and U16 that do NOT have rosters posted is the Whitecaps/Jr Whitecaps/OS teams (U19/U16/U14). Every other team that I clicked on at U19 has their roster on the site. Again, 98% of the things that OS does is awesome and they could charge more $$$ but the organizational stuff is what it is...good luck to all the teams out there from MN including the MN Northern Starzz (roster is up at 19/16/14). Make MN hockey proud!!!

Here is what the hierarchy looks like to me looking at the schedule and from past experience:

U19:

--Tradition Black & White (2001 & 2002's and primarily 2020's and 2021's with some of the 2003's that made USA Select camp. Majority if not all are committed to D1 schools and most have made a National Camp along the way. Rosters are a little more normal sized.)
--Tradition Red (2001 & 2002's. Last years team had a HUGE roster (like 25+ kids). A few kids may be committed to D1 and D3 schools. Depending on the mix of kids that show up for games they can be competitive with Black & White for a period or so. They also will be competitive with Royal, Sky, & Grey).
--Edge (Looks like Edge plays Gentry and some other U19 teams along with GEMINI & KEWL. Am guessing that these are teams that are kids that are not rostered on any of the colors)
--Flow (Looks like a step below Edge but similar schedule but less games)

U16:

--MSP Grey (guessing that this is the highest 2003 birth year team. Maybe National Campers at 16 or 15 or made 54's at HP. They play other MSP colors but ALSO games vs Tradition Black (2), White (2), and SSM U19 and Team Wisconsin U19)
--MSP White (could be 2004 or might be 10th graders from 04.They have a few games against 19's but not as many games as Grey. Mostly U16 schedule)
--MSP Black & Red (pure guess that this is mostly 03/04 kids that are 10th graders that do not make Grey or White. They play all U16s and also a team called GEMINI.)
--GEMINI (They play a pure U16 schedule but more teams than KEWL. I saw a parent of a kid on GEMINI the other day who is a way above average 2004 that is a 9th grader that made U15 National camp and in my opinion is on the D1 track but a younger 04. Pure guess but is many of the best 2004 9th graders.)
--KEWL (They play Edge, Flow, Gentry, & Northern U16. They do not play GEMINI which I would guess means they are below or might even have some kids that move between them?!?).

j4241
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Re: Elite league

Post by j4241 » Thu Aug 29, 2019 2:42 pm

Flow has games cross listed on the OS Fall league, and appears to be the Ice Cougars U19 team (from their website). The rest of what you said appears spot on to me.

goaliedad31
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Re: Elite league

Post by goaliedad31 » Thu Aug 29, 2019 8:38 pm

when you turn the league over to a for profit organization, you get favoritism to the for profit organization. Plus a lot of pay for play. Don't need to try out to make teams even if you don't make beyond spring festival

NORTHWOODS HOCKEY
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Re: Elite league

Post by NORTHWOODS HOCKEY » Tue Sep 03, 2019 12:02 pm

goaliedad31 wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 8:38 pm
when you turn the league over to a for profit organization, you get favoritism to the for profit organization. Plus a lot of pay for play. Don't need to try out to make teams even if you don't make beyond spring festival
This post received the appropriate amount of support and responses.

j4241
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Re: Elite league

Post by j4241 » Wed Sep 04, 2019 9:09 am

First two games last night - any reactions?

jg2112
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Re: Elite league

Post by jg2112 » Wed Sep 04, 2019 11:22 am

j4241 wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 9:09 am
First two games last night - any reactions?
I'm thoroughly shocked U16 Grey beat U19 Red 7-1, though I am happy I took the over.

massalsa
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Re: Elite league

Post by massalsa » Wed Sep 04, 2019 3:41 pm

Heard thru a friend that the Grey team is pretty legit. About 1/2 of the squad played on the U19 white NAHA team + a bunch of other ballers.

Red looks to be better than last year but with the best of the rest outside of U19 White/Black & U16 Grey (2020's & 2021's) they are going to be 3-6 goal underdogs against those 3 teams. The Grey should beat SSM U16 more often than not despite SSM having systems and PP/PK.

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