Media coverage of girls hockey

Discussion of Minnesota Girls High School Hockey

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j4241
Posts: 533
Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2015 2:38 pm

Media coverage of girls hockey

Post by j4241 » Fri Feb 05, 2021 11:14 am

A framework to consider:


++|......................................................Bulldog Pipeline*
..i|...................................USHSHO forum...................... (this is semi-ironic - our group probably isn't this info-rich)
..n|......................................................................YHH..
..f|.....................................................................Hub.....
..o|................................................................................
...|..........................................USCHO forum................
..r|.....................................................MN.Girls.Puck....
..i|................................................................................
..c|....................................................NeutralZone.......
..h|..InThe Zone..........................................................
--|_____________________________________________________
creepy <-------------------------------------> wholesome

*Not really media coverage of girls high school - an honorary placement because of how high quality it is.
**Sorry for all the "."s - not a bbcode power-user.

Info rich means do they actually have knowledgeable comments to make about MN girls hockey. Creepy/wholesome is about do they respect and treat the kids as athletes.

Others to add? Thoughts on placement?
Last edited by j4241 on Tue Feb 09, 2021 10:49 am, edited 4 times in total.

j4241
Posts: 533
Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2015 2:38 pm

Re: Media coverage of girls hockey

Post by j4241 » Fri Feb 05, 2021 2:25 pm

And just to be clear, I'm really grateful people are making an effort to promote the girls game, even though there is obviously some criticism intended in my 2x2. But I don't think I'm alone in that criticism, and I thought some user feedback might help guide some of those contributors to a bit more substantive reporting. To be clear, I think all should aim for as info-rich as possible and at least mostly wholesome.

j4241
Posts: 533
Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2015 2:38 pm

Re: Media coverage of girls hockey

Post by j4241 » Tue Feb 09, 2021 10:42 am

I've thought a bit more about this, and think I was off in placement of some of these (and I edited my original post to correct them). This was mostly about trying to start a conversation about one of the instagram accounts, in particular.

Eagles93
Posts: 483
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2004 5:04 pm

Re: Media coverage of girls hockey

Post by Eagles93 » Tue Feb 09, 2021 7:06 pm

Another thread, combined with this post made me think of this... this isn't an argument with ShakestheClown, but rather made me think about the lack of posts on this board. I don't think it has anything to do with which teams are being talked about but rather a) this forum used to be a lot more active and I bet many of those parents have likely moved on when their kid's graduated and b) there isn't a lot of publicity about this forum anywhere. Granted, you can search "high school hockey message board" if you're looking for one but doubt many do that. The parent domain of this board (ushso.com) isn't even an active website anymore. (That's not a dig, just that usually active message boards are part of active/popular websites.)

As far as I'm aware, there aren't any other active HS (especially girls) forums out there. I wonder if we could get some of these media outlets that you mention to publicize/tweet about this forum and hopefully get new posters here?

As for your list of media outlets, I don't follow/visit many of them myself. I was curious about In The Zone, particularly their Instragram since you mentioned it, I'm still waiting to be approved to follow them. I didn't realize USCHO forum talks about girls hockey, looks like there's very limited discussion there. Girls Hockey Hub, Twitter, and this forum is about the only places I go/follow.

j4241
Posts: 533
Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2015 2:38 pm

Re: Media coverage of girls hockey

Post by j4241 » Wed Feb 10, 2021 12:54 pm

I think you're right about the reasons for it being so slow, but I don't want to do anything to drive people away. I think this is a fun resource, and it would be more fun if it had the energy and vibe and posting frequency that the boys does. We need more people passionate about the girls game, and we need more of those people contributing to our board. Heck, if you love the JV game - let us know! I'm not aware of other high school boards either. This is the whole enchilada - so let's make it work!

In terms of other media, of course the absolute BEST media coverage of girls hockey was sotagirlshockey.com - may he rest enjoying his retirement, wherever that may be.

Here are a few other thoughts on the sources out there (probably way more than anyone cares to read):

ITZ primarily publishes Instagram pictures of girls, with occasional game shots, with tag lines like - "Happy Birthday to my absolute favorite forward in Minnesota!!! Such a nice person!" They also attend games to pull kids out of locker rooms after the games to take their picture posted with comments like "You are such nice girls! Thanks for letting me take your picture!" Kids will respond to that - they love attention. That doesn't mean it's a good idea. (Hence me expressing my opinion by placing him where I did on the horizontal access in my chart). To clarify, I am only sharing my opinion about the optics of his coverage - I am not accusing him of anything - just seems like pretty bad judgment to me. He's integrated some coverage of Minnesotans playing college hockey, which is reasonably cool. He also has made some lists of top players in different age groups that... are so bad as to be almost hard to believe. MN.Girls.Puck is also an Instagram account with some lighthearted coverage, but much more focused on the kids as athletes. They have also made some ranking lists that are... not great, but not as bad as ITZ. They also aren't trying to brand their lists ("She's an #ITZ24!"). The problem with list making is that it leads the people who created it to try to defend it, unless they commit to regular updates. If you say someone is good, and they aren't as good as you thought but you stick by your initial assessment, it just makes you look silly (and probably doesn't help the kid). The other list-maker is the Breakdown Media guide, which is a fun kind of year-book style product, but also very suspect in terms of who it includes and excludes on its lists, in my opinion.

NeutralZone is another list maker - a paid evaluation site that has a somewhat robust offering on the boys side (it's behind some other places for draft related coverage, but I think they target college coaches as their intended audience - as with most of these things, the actual audience is probably mostly parents). They've made a good faith effort to cover girls, but the Minnesota coverage has historically been extremely low quality (in my opinion). The evaluator was someone without much of a playing background, and you could tell that person just didn't know the game. The comments were along the lines of "She really hustles up the ice!" They hired a new guy, and he writes amazing narratives - check out the NAHA coverage this fall for an example (if you're willing to pay for it). No one was there from Minnesota, but I still read them and they popped! A ton of the coverage was on the U16 Little Caesars team, and let's just say he's a fan. Unfortunately, the Minnesota coverage from NeutralZone is very spotty. I don't think he saw many elite league games (if it was even the same person - not sure), and the evaluations take the form of "this player is..." rather than saying "on this day against this opponent this player looked...". They never acknowledge that they saw 3 shifts in one period of one game while hustling back and forth between Fogerty rinks. I saw a lot of elite league games, and there are kids he rated highly who were non-factors during the course of those teams fall seasons, and vice versa. The feedback that I have heard from people close to the college hockey coaching community is that NeutralZone is completely irrelevant for recruiting. Their goal is to be valuable in that regard, but the viability of that business model executed in a way where there's enough people watching enough kids to be helpful is suspect.

The USCHO board is interesting to read to learn about college programs a bit, but is very spotty on high school - obviously just a couple of dads who probably used to be on this board giving some teasers about actual and possible future recruits.

I also track collegecommitments.com, as well as their twitter account, to see who's committing (although the kids seem more and more to post on Instagram, and those aren't always captured). Both of those sources also miss a lot of Ivy commits. I think many Ivy commits don't announce at the suggestion of the coaches to avoid embarrassment if they aren't admitted, either because they couldn't meet test score requirements, or because the coaches decided they hadn't progressed as much as expected so use the admissions office to effectively de-commit them (it happens - ugly, but it happens).

YHH's coverage is pretty damn good. I'm not sure how much of their business model is on the media side of things - I assume they make most of the money on tournaments - which explans why a lot of the coverage is of games from those tournaments. But I love Her Ice - Peter and Tony do a really good job covering a lot of the state, covering a lot of age groups, they know the kids really well because they've seen them in a lot of cases for a long time. They also treat them as athletes. It's lighthearted, but professional. They have their favorites - some of the same kids seem to keep popping up, (even in some cases when their own teammates are outplaying them) - but that's partly because the same kids tend to stay at the top, for the most part, and because - who doesn't have favorites? I know I do!

Eagles93
Posts: 483
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2004 5:04 pm

Re: Media coverage of girls hockey

Post by Eagles93 » Wed Feb 10, 2021 1:48 pm

j4241 wrote:
Wed Feb 10, 2021 12:54 pm
In terms of other media, of course the absolute BEST media coverage of girls hockey was sotagirlshockey.com - may he rest enjoying his retirement, wherever that may be.
Yes, I forget about that gem... I loved reading those posts. I never knew who was behind it, I'm guessing it didn't get a ton of views strictly because of the same reasons we're discussing this forum - lack of publicity. I wish he'd come back.

Thanks for the good recap on the other outlets. I don't use Instagram, but have an account. I spent 30 seconds on ITZ and closed the app. I agree with you, if it's a 50-year-old man running the account, it's creepy. If it were a couple 20-year-old girls running it, super cool for the girls.

I got a semi-creepy vibe about YHH when they started several years ago. But it has evolved into a great hub for youth hockey, and a decent stop for HS information. I think they've done a respectable job of trying to include the girls' side of the sport too. I remember YHH used to have a forum but it was used even less than this one.

The hub is a great resource, I wish it weren't so.... clunky. That's more of a Sport Engine complaint. For instance, I don't like that each season is treated as a separate season, so you can't follow a player's "career". On the flip side, Elite Prospects (which I forgot to mention in my last post) has an amazing interface, I wish the schedule, standings, stats were kept real time like the hub. At quick glance, it looks like the boys side does have fairly up-to-date stats while some girls teams don't even have rosters loaded for this season. Not a complaint, I can't imagine how much resources is need to manually update the teams every year.

j4241
Posts: 533
Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2015 2:38 pm

Re: Media coverage of girls hockey

Post by j4241 » Wed Feb 10, 2021 1:53 pm

If you want to know how many resources EliteProspects requires, just ask Beau! He is on this site sometimes. And I neglected to mention that one - it is an amazing resource. As far as I know, it's the only place you can see HP play (including points at the national camp level), elite league teams, high school points, etc. It also is a good place to go to appreciate how much info there is on Minnesota high school hockey. When I look up kids from any other part of the country, there is almost never any info at all unless they went to a USA hockey national camp or played on the 18 team.

Eagles93
Posts: 483
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2004 5:04 pm

Re: Media coverage of girls hockey

Post by Eagles93 » Wed Feb 10, 2021 2:01 pm

I haven't seen Beau on here in a long time, his last post was Dec '19. EP is definitely the first stop to look up information on a particular player, they do such a great job of outlining a player's history.

massalsa
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Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 6:37 pm

Re: Media coverage of girls hockey

Post by massalsa » Thu Feb 11, 2021 10:48 am

https://womenscollegehockey.org/

This appears to be the new home of the league wide content from Bulldog Pipeline. From recruiting to NCAA updates to weekend wraps on all the games...at least at the D1 level right now but am guessing that more D3 content would show up in a non pandemic affected season.

Iceburg
Posts: 508
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Location: Maplewood

Re: Media coverage of girls hockey

Post by Iceburg » Sat Aug 07, 2021 7:41 pm

Edina-Andover starts out Hockey Day

https://twitter.com/BallySportsNOR/stat ... 4763015171

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