2022 Class AA State Tournament

[jg2112]

A couple of thoughts from last night's Andover v. Gentry game.

First - has a AA semi-finalist ever been held to 9 shots on goal before? And did Gentry's goal even count as a SOG (it hit the post, then Stagman's back and in)? It was an incredible defensive performance by a Huskies defense full of underclass players. However, they were led from the front. The Andover forwards were a menace in covering the ice, just as we thought.

Second - in his preamble to last night's games, Joe Schmitt said that "Undoubtedly these are the best four teams in AA this year."

Anyone want to work through that declaration? Looking at the BSM and HF fans on the Board here.

[j4241]

Andovers forecheck is absolutely smothering. And their D, Jones especially, are ridiculous - she’s a frosh? That big, moves like that with that much poise? And can shoot that well? Different style player than Jungels, but I’d project her collegiate and international ceiling as the highest of any frosh I’ve ever seen.

He has to say that, and it may or may not be true. But gentry certainly wasn’t the one gifted an easy path to that game - good wins against Hill Murray and a very good maple grove team - they earned it. Yes, holy family and bsm may have been better, but not by a huge margin.

[MNHockeyFan]

Second - in his preamble to last night's games, Joe Schmitt said that "Undoubtedly these are the best four teams in AA this year."

Anyone want to work through that declaration? Looking at the BSM and HF fans on the Board here.

I don't think Gentry belongs in the top four. Benilde and Holy Family each beat them, by scores of 6-0 and 4-2 respectively.

[Nostalgic Nerd]

I think the Tonka win makes for a better final. Still think Andover wins, but Tonka lost to them by a goal twice.

I agree, I think Edina has a better chance of beating Andover, but Tonka will make for a more exciting offensive game. Tonka needs to stay out of the box or it could get lopsided.

I was saying I felt Tonka has a better shot at winning because they've lost by 1 goal twice to Andover. Edina lost to them 4-0. Edina didn't really do anything till the last five minutes vs Tonka IMO. I thought Tonka had the more skilled players too. The bad goal allowed by the Edina goalie obviously was crucial.

[MNHockeyFan]

Edina takes 3rd place with a 3-0 win over Gentry.

[Eagles93]

Second - in his preamble to last night's games, Joe Schmitt said that "Undoubtedly these are the best four teams in AA this year."

Anyone want to work through that declaration? Looking at the BSM and HF fans on the Board here.

It's obviously not true, at least to say "undoubtedly". As we've known all year, we've got the top 3 and then 5-10 teams battling for 4th place. Which would be fun to see in a separate tourney. Segue...

In this mythical "Best of the Rest State Tourney", it would be more competitive than the real tourney:

1AA: Northfield
2AA: Holy Family
3AA: Burnsville
4AA: Gentry
5AA: Maple Grove
6AA: BSM
7AA: Elk River
8AA: Brainerd

Probable seeding:
1 - Holy Family
2 - BSM
3 - Maple Grove
4 - Gentry
5 - Burnsville
6-8: Brainerd, Elk River, Northfield

[jg2112]

Adding to the hypotheticals. If all Edina youth players stayed and played for Edina, am I right that 5 of their top 6 D this year would have been (alphabetically):

Blum (Blake)
Jungels
Maxwell
Morgan (HF)
Peschel (BSM)

That's a heck of a "what if." I'd have loved to see that.

[Lace'emUp]

Second - in his preamble to last night's games, Joe Schmitt said that "Undoubtedly these are the best four teams in AA this year."

Unfortunately, it's an easy cliché for the media to use is these situations. We all know that's not true.

But along those same lines, the comment the lady color commentator made during the middle of the 2nd period of the Andover/Gentry game had me spit-spraying my soda drink. She said "the longer this game is tied, I give the advantage to Gentry". Did anyone else catch that comment?
I'll nominate that one for preposterous statement of the year.

[Eagles93]

Did the top 3 teams have many move in players? Say, players that joined the association/high school after 10U? I know the recent ones Lindsay, Kleppinger, Hemps.

[j4241]

Yes - a ton.

Tonka:

Lindsay, Kleppinger, Hemp, Hemp, Distad, LaRoche, Zakrajshek - at least (may be others).

Andover:

Boerger, Brown, Goettl, Stagmann, Sauer, Delich - may be others.

Edina:

Most prominently - Havlorson and Corniea went to Breck then back to Edina. Not sure on others.

Unfortunately, it's part of the landscape. These names are a mix of recruiting on the one hand, and families choosing to move to communities with strong hockey on the other. True for the next handful, too, though - Gentry, Holy Family, BSM. Not as much at Wayzata or Maple Grove (though Retrum from Breck). All somewhat on a different level than Warroad, who has an open corporate sponsor in Marvin Windows, offering parents jobs to bring their kids to play.

[jg2112]

Did the top 3 teams have many move in players? Say, players that joined the association/high school after 10U? I know the recent ones Lindsay, Kleppinger, Hemps.

Edina has had a few in recent years (Conner, Davis, Roberts), but none this year.

What's interesting is that for how good Andover is, don't forget their starting D this year could be Klepinger and Hemp, and they could have had M. Kaiser in the forward lines. Absurd program.

In addition, Karl went from Gentry (back to?) Tonka.

[Slap Shot]

Pretty sure the back angle of the winning goal showed the puck over the line, but hey Andover earned a hard fought win that was a very close game the entire way.

[Eagles93]

Tonka needs to stay out of the box or it could get lopsided.

Man does Tonka (Sadura in particular) have a knack for taking stupid penalties. After Tonka is gifted a terrible penalty call on Mumm, Sadura gifts it right back and costs Tonka the game. Otherwise this was a heckuva game, the best I've seen Tonka play this year. Congrats on a perfect season, Andover!

[j4241]

I have enormous and growing respect for Andover hockey. Disciplined, skilled (first line trio, in particular - WAY outplayed Tonka's, in spite of Winny on the broadcast trying hard to sell the Lindsay/Gopher story), hard working, zero "look at me" behavior, team first hockey (in stark, stark contrast to some of their opponents tonight). And this all with a program that's lost three hockey games in the last three years. Can you even imagine a team staying that disciplined that basically never loses? It probably starts at their youth level, but one of the teams tonight has a coaching staff that led the kids to put the team first.

Truthfully, Tonka was lucky this game was so close. The score could easily have been 5-1. Dumb penalties are part of it (along with poor officiating - refs were quick to call Andover penalties on a team that had few duirng the season, and slow the other direction for an undisciplined Tonka team) - super stars falling down, star forwards who try to project flash and creativity but are predictable (the curl out of the corner worked twice tonight on a lucky bounce and uncalled penalty - but got anything else? and the between the legs pull - it just doesn't look as cool as the first 78 times), floating for breakaways - not impressive hockey IQ. Tonka had some sustained pressure and chances, mostly as a result of more penalties called than should have been, but were outskilled by Andover. What's hard to even imagine is how much better Andover will be next year. Frosh get A LOT better rolling over to their sophomore years. I can't even imagine what that looks like for Jones (and Little, Engler, others). And their top line - Brown and Goettl were terrific tonight - that give and go exchange on goal 2 was a thing of beauty - outstanding, but Boerger - the best forward on the ice throughout the tournament and it wasn't close. Just outstanding combination of skill, grit, compete, high offensive and defensive hockey IQ, and unselfishness. She is the heart and soul of one of the best hockey teams I've ever seen in girls high school hockey.

Bottom line for me - the better team won. Congrats to Andover on a fantastic season!

[Slap Shot]

That totally reads objectively.

[j4241]

What are you, the message board objectivity police? If so, you've got bigger issues in the world than this board.

Of course it's not objective. But it's opinion rooted in seeing these teams and their peers play a lot of games. Which points I made do you disagree with?

[Nostalgic Nerd]

Tonka needs to stay out of the box or it could get lopsided.

Man does Tonka (Sadura in particular) have a knack for taking stupid penalties. After Tonka is gifted a terrible penalty call on Mumm, Sadura gifts it right back and costs Tonka the game. Otherwise this was a heckuva game, the best I've seen Tonka play this year. Congrats on a perfect season, Andover!

Agreed. I like smart penalties, not dumb ones. Killer PP by Tonka even in the loss. Lots of snipes.
Congrats Andover!

[Slap Shot]

What are you, the message board objectivity police? If so, you've got bigger issues in the world than this board.

Of course it's not objective. But it's opinion rooted in seeing these teams and their peers play a lot of games. Which points I made do you disagree with?

No just the b.s. police.

Tonka had 1 more PP which alone didn't account for the fact scoring chances by the end of the game were nearly identical. At point late in the 3rd it was 12 to 12 so not sure what game was being watched.

As for next year Andover returns a ton, I think HF does as well, Edina loses a bit more but you never count the out for reloading, and Tonka only had 4 seniors and 7 Fr. Would be nice to see a few more teams in different sections push the overall depth come tournament time next year.

[jg2112]

What are you, the message board objectivity police? If so, you've got bigger issues in the world than this board.

Of course it's not objective. But it's opinion rooted in seeing these teams and their peers play a lot of games. Which points I made do you disagree with?

No just the b.s. police.

Tonka had 1 more PP which alone didn't account for the fact scoring chances by the end of the game were nearly identical. At point late in the 3rd it was 12 to 12 so not sure what game was being watched.

As for next year Andover returns a ton, I think HF does as well, Edina loses a bit more but you never count the out for reloading, and Tonka only had 4 seniors and 7 Fr. Would be nice to see a few more teams in different sections push the overall depth come tournament time next year.

Holy Family is losing a LOT. The starting defense pair (Morgan and Kelly), a Ms. Hockey finalist (Kaiser), Messner (Dartmouth), and at least four others (Charchenko, Kamp, Moss, Woytcke) who will play college hockey. That's almost half the roster.

[j4241]

Then we may have to call internal affairs, because I see some police misconduct. All four Tonka goals were lucky (Lindsay 1, Sadura and Distad - shots all deflected well away from intended shot location) or the result of poor officiating leading to the goal (Lindsay 2). Tonka is very good - their forwards are very good - but they fall short of their reputations and did so in this game. Their reputational advantage means it's worth it to throw some opinions to the contrary into the mix - all of them are early birth months - so their reputations are burnished by being AAA super stars playing against younger opponents, or being the oldest in their HP group, while Andover's top line are all the opposite - late birth months kids who have not gotten the credit they deserve. The former consistently get reputational tailwinds, but the latter are clearly better hockey players at this stage (as a group - individual comparisons are a bit more nuanced). Just to look at it from another angle, it would take the most partisan person imaginable to accurately pick the one U18 player on the ice in this game (in spite of the score sheet).

On the other side all five Andover goals were intentional in addition to being skilful (exceptional breakout pass by Mumm to beat Tonka forecheck to Boerger who used teammate as decoy on 2v1 before finishing with a laser beam for goal 1, beautiful give and go execution by Goettl and Brown for 2, sustained possession leading to high danger pass in front for a gritty finish by Boerger for goal 3, crazy angle shot - but undeflected - after sustained pressure for Brown on goal 4, and Kaisers game winner). Kaiser's was a little leaky - probably should have been saved - but she and Engler were the better players on a 2v2 battle that was very winnable for the Tonka players at the blue line before the goal.

For what it's worth, I have no direct skin in the game in sharing these opinions - no kid on either team. But no BS here - just the facts, ma'am.

As to your comments about next year - I don't think you know Holy Family's roster very well (though Blair will keep them competitive against most teams - likely still top 10). In terms of other sections, you'll have to talk to the MSHSL about that - they've never cared about competitive parity. They see 9-0, 7-0, and 5-0 quarterfinal scores in AA hockey and think "yay! arbitrary geographic boundaries were all represented!"

[PhunnsieMcHockeyDad]

What are you, the message board objectivity police? If so, you've got bigger issues in the world than this board.

Of course it's not objective. But it's opinion rooted in seeing these teams and their peers play a lot of games. Which points I made do you disagree with?

No just the b.s. police.

Tonka had 1 more PP which alone didn't account for the fact scoring chances by the end of the game were nearly identical. At point late in the 3rd it was 12 to 12 so not sure what game was being watched.

As for next year Andover returns a ton, I think HF does as well, Edina loses a bit more but you never count the out for reloading, and Tonka only had 4 seniors and 7 Fr. Would be nice to see a few more teams in different sections push the overall depth come tournament time next year.

Stillwater relied mostly on 2024's this season, and that class has a couple more from the JV squad that will come up and help. They have the potential to jump into the top of the second tier.

Andover's only problem might be losing girls due to lack of roster movement and playing time. Good problem to have.

[j4241]

Andover's only problem might be losing girls due to lack of roster movement and playing time. Good problem to have.

Excellent point, and hardly limited to Andover. Tonka has some talented 25s who are going to be buried in their lineup during their most important year of hockey. It sounds like the Tonka program is losing a TON of young players from JV and U15 ranks. Will be interesting to see if they lose some varsity 25s who want college coaches to see them as more than third line role players next year.

[j4241]

For what it's worth, I have no direct skin in the game in sharing these opinions - no kid on either team. But no BS here - just the facts, ma'am.

Also, my criticism of Tonka is in the context of recognizing they are a super, super talented team - clearly the second best team in the state. They returned a lot of a roster that finished just short of the title game last year. But they also landed three junior years transfers of Gopher recruits (plus some others) to buttress a stockpile of home grown and previously moved-in talent. They, their parents, and most of Minnesota hockey assumed they would walk through the season undefeated. A 7 loss season for this assemblage of talent meant they massively under-performed expectations and reputation (even while getting second in state) - which warrants some critical evaluation.

just the facts, ma'am.

Also, obviously still opinion - just extending the police metaphor. Hope that was clear.

[girlshockey4ever]

I guess I've never heard a team losing the championship game by 1 goal and out shooting their opponent be considered "Massively underachieving." Your comments are so blatantly biased that it takes away from any good points you might make. And by saying that Tonka was lucky the game was even close puts you in a stark minority. Most people thought it was a great game. But I guess if you keep yelling at the top of your lungs maybe someone will listen. If you keep throwing out opinions maybe one will stick and people will believe your narrative.

[j4241]

Feel free to listen or not - up to you.