Elite league '22

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j4241
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Elite league '22

Post by j4241 » Thu Sep 08, 2022 8:22 am

Some interesting story-lines - one that caught my eye: Durham West comes to town in two weeks to play Shattuck, Empowers, Windy City (former CYA), and... St. Cloud State in an exhibition. That should be an interesting relative measure of where the top elite league teams are.

Games start tonight at Fogerty. Big ones include - Tradition ('23 '05s) vs. Empowers ('23 '04s). They only play twice, and are the two top senior teams. Only one will get to play Shattuck for the auto-bid. MSP (the top 16 team - should have a strong chance to win nationals) tees off against a lower 16 team, but with some talented younger players. Pellici and Team Travel - the two top sophomore teams, plus a few young super stars, including Emily Pohl's first elite league hockey. Come out and support the girls game!

Iceburg
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Re: Elite league '22

Post by Iceburg » Thu Sep 08, 2022 9:49 am

j4241 wrote:
Thu Sep 08, 2022 8:22 am
Come out and support the girls game!
I’ll be there

j4241
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Re: Elite league '22

Post by j4241 » Thu Sep 08, 2022 10:07 am

I figured 😀

For those interested and unable to attend, there is a streming package being offered this year for $80: https://play.spiideo.com/game-package/a ... l=disabled

j4241
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Re: Elite league '22

Post by j4241 » Mon Sep 12, 2022 9:01 am

I'm grateful to Beau for his tweet today - advocating for coverage by the elite leauge of the girls side. I think it's under totally separate leadership, but it's a bad look.

With respect to game play, Empowers Performance has made an opening statement with a 3-0 stretch and wins over Tradition, Northern Elite and Shattuck Prep (the last two while playing somewhat short-handed). These are the other top Minnesota 19 teams, and right now Empowers leads that pack. They boast exceptional goaltending, very good D, and what right now look like the top group of offensive forwards in the elite league, with scoring spread across the Blake, Gentry, Andover and Holy Family lines. Tradition stumbled against Empowers and Shattuck before rebounding with a dominant win over the Madison Capitols.

(As a giant parenthetical, the comparison between those teams (Empowers and Tradition) provides an interesting window into the USA hockey process. Both teams are very good, and filled with talented players. However, the rosters of each and their USA hockey success:

Empowers (made up mostly of late-birth-month 2004 birth year seniors):
U18 team - 1
U18 camps - 2
16-17 camps - 4

Tradition (made up mostly of early-birth-month 2005 birth year seniors):
U18 team - 7
U18 camps - 8 (with many of these 15 attending multiple U18 camps)
16-17 camps - 2

(I think these are right - may be off by 1)

These numbers are not cumulative, so the 8 that made the 18 camps are a different group than the 7 that made U18 teams. In other words, Empowers had 7 kids attend any national USA hockey camps, half of which attended the lowest one, and Tradition had 17.

USA hockey success would suggest Tradition is the dominant group in Minnesota, and yet they are 1-2 in elite league play and have lost to the much less USA-hockey-heralded Empowers group. Many college coaches and observers of the game use USA hockey success as a benchmark of player quality, but I highlight this because I thiink it makes clear that can be a pretty imperfect gauge.)

MSP Mag - the top 16 team - stumbled into a tie against Streamline, a win against the Northern Elite 16 team, and a tie against the Shattuck 19 team (their second team at that age group). (This team also has 2 U18 players and several 18 camp attendees.)

PhunnsieMcHockeyDad
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Re: Elite league '22

Post by PhunnsieMcHockeyDad » Wed Sep 14, 2022 8:47 am

Witnessed the Empowers team first-hand last night at Fogerty. Daughter skates on the Morgan Stanley squad - who was gutty last night but the game wasn't as close as the score indicated (3-2).

Morgan Stanley is made up of the next level of '23 grads, most of whom are either smaller school D1 or top D3 prospects (which is still a pretty good level of play, there aren't many D3 spots out there for the '23 kids as coaches are trying to get their rosters under control). Also some stronger '24 grads that didn't make MSP Mag at 16U but can definitely skate with the older girls.

Empower skaters are definitely faster and stronger on their skates. They close on the puck, win races and reel in skaters on backchecks-which makes it tough for opponents to retain possession and create opportunities. They also do a wonderful job of anticipating and stepping into passing lanes...just tough to play against.

The Empower kids are more confident with the puck on their stick and more willing to make plays vs trying to make the miracle pass through traffic. It is helpful when you're skating with your HS linemates/teammates (Morrison/Higuchi/Broz or Argerter/Sajevic/Hanrahan or Goettl/Boerger). All great players and you can clearly see the chemistry on the ice.

Really fun game to watch (despite the frigid temps in Fogerty last night)...you could see the kids were having a good time on and had buddies on the other bench which translated into some good chatter and energy on the ice.

MSP Mag and Tradition were playing in the (much) warmer South Rink...so it was a great night for Girls' Hockey with many of MN's top players under one roof. Everyone heads for Duluth this weekend with Northern Elite 19U and SSM Prep in attendance too.

j4241
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Re: Elite league '22

Post by j4241 » Wed Sep 14, 2022 10:05 am

That's great commentary! I was there as well, and it was a fun, tight game to watch. It looked like both teams had some absences, and Empowers had at least a few subs (goalie and 2 D). One negative of the elite league is the varying level of seriousness with which the girls take it. Fun should always be the priority, but it can be tough to decipher the meaning of a score if you don't know who's playing for each team. That said, very cool that many of the elite league games have been close so far - 32 games played, only 7 have a margin of larger than 3 goals (all involving non-metro teams or out of state), and 12 have been ties or one goal games. That is not the case for most high school seasons!

j4241
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Re: Elite league '22

Post by j4241 » Mon Sep 19, 2022 12:02 am

Good weekend of hockey up in Duluth, but SSM played the spoilers with convincing wins over:

- Tradition (5-1, but with all 5 goals scored in the second half against a sub goalie, and a full line of sub skaters - impressive first half shutout of SSM by Blair)
- Empowers (4-0, with all 4 goals scored against sub goalies, Klein with an impressive 30 save shutout for SSM - shots were 30-22 Empowers)
- Morgan Stanley (7-1)

Some of the goaltenders were subs (and mostly did a pretty good job), but it's pretty hard to win with only 0 or 1 goal for, and the SSM D and goaltending were outstanding. Tough, smart and physical - frustrating their opponents, which also led to some poor penalties by the Minnesota teams. Should be some good battles between SSM and both Tradition and Empowers in future games if they are able to have better attendance (and stay out of the penalty box).

MSP Magazine dropped a game to SSM U16 3-1, and tied the second SSM U19 team on Sunday.

Empowers finished 3-1, Tradition 2-1-1 (also tying the second SSM 19 team), and MSP 2-1-1 (also tying the second SSM U19 team).

Tradition gets another shot against the SSM prep on Wednesday, and then Windy City (formerly Chicago Young Americans) over the weekend.

Empowers gets their first game against the second Shattuck 19 team on Thursday, and then the Durham West Jr. Lightning, one of the top Canadian U22 teams (sporting a 6-0 record with a 4-2 win over their lone American opponent, a strong Chicago Mission team, and who play St. Cloud State in an exhibition on Sunday). Empowers follows that up with a rematch against the Capitols on Saturday (who no doubt will want a pound of flesh for the Michgan goal scored against them), and round 3 against SSM prep on Sunday. The torid game pace continues!

Regarding that torrid game pace, it's worth pointing out that SSM prep looks very strong based on wins and losses so far, but it is a study in contrast with what their product is vs the elite league teams. They are practicing every day (elite league teams have yet to have a practice), very structured, playing with set lines, power plays, penalties kills, and ice time heavily tilted towards their best players. This is their main season, and they play to win. The elite league teams have spotty attendance, roll out whatever next three forwards and next two D are on the bench, and are very unstructured. I beleive it's intentional by Winny - playing with new players builds hockey IQ as you have to figure out what works in real time (but leads to some poor passing decisions and execution). Some kids figure it out better than others. And SSM's approach can be limiting - I can see blind area passes that work and look like they are creative, but are drilled in. The best kids would be fine playing outside the system - for the bottom half of their lineup it's probably more of a crutch. The talent level of the prep team is at best comparable to each of Tradition and Empowers, in my opinion (though their bottom end is more effective working within the system), and I expect the Minnesota teams to scratch out a few more wins before all is said and done.

j4241
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Re: Elite league '22

Post by j4241 » Wed Sep 21, 2022 9:47 am

I goofed on the schedule. Looks like Tradition doesn't play again until Sunday. Also, though it's not on the elite league website, SSM Prep plays Durham West tomorrow night - available on hockeytv.com (with all of the games at Shattuck).

And the aforementioned Michigan, btw:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1pIOiG6 ... sp=sharing

j4241
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Re: Elite league '22

Post by j4241 » Tue Oct 25, 2022 6:03 pm

Elite league wraps tomorrow with state championship games between MSP and SSM 16, and Empowers and SSM Prep (both at Shattuck). Auto-bids to the national championship are awarded to the winner of those games.

MSP earned the right to play in that game with an overall record of: 15-3-7 - only losses to SSM 16 (2x) and SSM Prep. The 7 ties were acrross a smattering of teams (including Tradition and Empowers - the two top MN 19 teams). Head to head vs their opponent tomorrow night they are 1-2, and all three games were within 2 goals.

Empowers with a record of 15-8-2 (including 3-0 vs Tradition), and losses to SSM Prep (5 times - against one win, the only loss of the season for #1 nationally ranked SSM Prep), Jr. Flyers (#5), Durham West (#1 in Canada) and Northern Elite (#21). Ties vs MSP and Delta Hockey Academy (#19 in Canada).

According to myhockeyrankings.com (updated):
MSP is ranked #1 nationally right now at 16s, and is 0.55 goals better per game better than the SSM 16 team (#2).
SSM is ranked #1 and Empowers is ranked #3 at 19s, and SSM is 2.03 goals / game better.

Iceburg
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Re: Elite league '22

Post by Iceburg » Wed Oct 26, 2022 7:14 pm

MSP 1, Shattuck 16u 1 after two periods

Iceburg
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Re: Elite league '22

Post by Iceburg » Wed Oct 26, 2022 8:21 pm

MSP ties it up 2-2 in the third and scores 12 minutes into overtime to win 3-2.

Sorry, I’m not going to stick around for the late game

j4241
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Re: Elite league '22

Post by j4241 » Wed Oct 26, 2022 9:38 pm

Shattuck up 5-1 after 2. Shots 23-19 shattuck.

j4241
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Re: Elite league '22

Post by j4241 » Wed Oct 26, 2022 10:13 pm

6-2 final - shots 37-31 shattuck.

girlshockey4ever
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Re: Elite league '22

Post by girlshockey4ever » Thu Oct 27, 2022 12:09 pm

Trigger warning: I'm sure this will upset some and I mean no disrespect....But out of their own mouths, the top level high school hockey girls DO NOT CARE ABOUT ELITE LEAGUE. They don't. If they did, they wouldn't miss games. Ever hear of a high school player just missing a varsity game? You know, to just have a night off? Nope. This is especially true for the kids that are committed already. And let the booooos begin.

j4241
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Re: Elite league '22

Post by j4241 » Thu Oct 27, 2022 12:34 pm

That is true for some. Attendance is mixed, with a few kids consistently missing. But I didn’t see any games at all where it looked like any kids were mailing it in. When they played, most played hard. If that weren’t the case being committed would be the peak of their hockey careers - there’s no future if you don’t love to compete. I’m sure some used the “I don’t really care” as a defense mechanism after the fact when they didn’t have the success they’re used to, but I don’t think that was the case during the games. And high school hockey is a lot easier than elite league - the lower end is a lot lower, which makes points and scoring easier and kids look better and probably have more fun than they do against really strong opponents. Not all elite league kids are cut out to be good college players.

That said, I understand if the topic isn’t of interest to you, so on to high school!

j4241
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Re: Elite league '22

Post by j4241 » Thu Oct 27, 2022 1:48 pm

Plus, USA hockey was watching, so anyone hoping to avoid the cut after augusts performance should have been working hard, at least.

bodyup88
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Re: Elite league '22

Post by bodyup88 » Thu Oct 27, 2022 2:29 pm

Glowing endorsement of the league. "When they played, most played hard"
I think the Upper Midwest HS Elite league should cut Winny's group loose and stop letting them piggy back on their name. They are not run even close to the same level. We see no box scores for any of the girls' games because it is likely there are more subs than actual players. There are girls playing games who aren't on any rosters and are stand-ins. If you want a rec league of skilled but unmotivated players fine, but call it what is. Do not pretend to be something that something else is.

Iceburg
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Re: Elite league '22

Post by Iceburg » Thu Oct 27, 2022 3:27 pm

I’m not sure what some of you are looking for. It’s a low pressure league that allows players to play a fall sport if they choose. As a fan, I find it very entertaining. The NIT weekend is one of my favorite local sports events of the year. Maybe the high admission prices are rubbing some the wrong way?

PhunnsieMcHockeyDad
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Re: Elite league '22

Post by PhunnsieMcHockeyDad » Tue Nov 01, 2022 8:06 am

bodyup88 wrote:
Thu Oct 27, 2022 2:29 pm
Glowing endorsement of the league. "When they played, most played hard"
I think the Upper Midwest HS Elite league should cut Winny's group loose and stop letting them piggy back on their name. They are not run even close to the same level. We see no box scores for any of the girls' games because it is likely there are more subs than actual players. There are girls playing games who aren't on any rosters and are stand-ins. If you want a rec league of skilled but unmotivated players fine, but call it what is. Do not pretend to be something that something else is.
The participants are tracked through the Bench App so you know who is participating in every game (that's not public info - you can only see your own team). The number of subs at each game isn't dramatic, my daughter played for the Morgan Stanley team and the rostered players were pretty good about showing up. There were a couple of outliers early in the season but that had more to do with Fall Sports commitments. At most we saw 2 or 3 subs per game.

Agreed on the stats and I don't know why they're not public. They used Game Sheet for all the games, but the data never saw the light of day until the NIT.

Effort not an issue...that's one of the reasons why these kids get selected for Elite. There were college coaches at almost every game and most of them (the players) are there because they want to compete. I saw Empowers, Tradition, and both Shattuck teams play against Morgan Stanley and they kids got after it every time they stepped on the ice.

I do think there could have been a 4th team at 19U - the Sub list was pretty deep at that level. And I don't know how committing as a Sub impacts the ability to be rostered in Premiere Prep - would hope the Subs can do both so they're not just sitting around waiting.

Overall my daughter had two years in the league and loved it. She made most of the games and the system is set up so the girls can miss a couple and not suffer. My suggestion would be to take Friday nights off the calendar due to HS Football - especially early in the season - that's where many of them took nights off because they didn't want to miss out on the fun with their HS classmates.

Os stepping away - I don't know. They do a really good job of managing the season. Refs are always on time and present, the rosters are always full, never any ice time snafus. The stacking of teams bugs me, at Prospects this summer they spread the top '04's and '05's out over 4 teams and I thought it gave some of the girls a chance to show they belonged with the usual suspects at the top of the Os Rankings. I think having the same type of structure in Elite (like the boys) would make for a more "competitive" league vs having one or two teams already dialed in to Nationals.

InThePipes
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Re: Elite league '22

Post by InThePipes » Wed May 17, 2023 12:15 pm

PhunnsieMcHockeyDad wrote:
Tue Nov 01, 2022 8:06 am

Os stepping away - I don't know. They do a really good job of managing the season. Refs are always on time and present, the rosters are always full, never any ice time snafus. The stacking of teams bugs me, at Prospects this summer they spread the top '04's and '05's out over 4 teams and I thought it gave some of the girls a chance to show they belonged with the usual suspects at the top of the Os Rankings. I think having the same type of structure in Elite (like the boys) would make for a more "competitive" league vs having one or two teams already dialed in to Nationals.
Is the "stacking" of one of the 16 and 19 teams done simply for the potential Nationals opportunity/bid?

PhunnsieMcHockeyDad
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Re: Elite league '22

Post by PhunnsieMcHockeyDad » Thu May 18, 2023 7:49 pm

InThePipes wrote:
Wed May 17, 2023 12:15 pm
PhunnsieMcHockeyDad wrote:
Tue Nov 01, 2022 8:06 am

Os stepping away - I don't know. They do a really good job of managing the season. Refs are always on time and present, the rosters are always full, never any ice time snafus. The stacking of teams bugs me, at Prospects this summer they spread the top '04's and '05's out over 4 teams and I thought it gave some of the girls a chance to show they belonged with the usual suspects at the top of the Os Rankings. I think having the same type of structure in Elite (like the boys) would make for a more "competitive" league vs having one or two teams already dialed in to Nationals.
Is the "stacking" of one of the 16 and 19 teams done simply for the potential Nationals opportunity/bid?
For sure....it backfired this year when they couldn't get enough of the top 19U team to send a team. Spring break, spring sports, already committed and most of them have closets full of medals.

InThePipes
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Re: Elite league '22

Post by InThePipes » Thu May 25, 2023 6:26 am

PhunnsieMcHockeyDad wrote:
Thu May 18, 2023 7:49 pm
InThePipes wrote:
Wed May 17, 2023 12:15 pm
PhunnsieMcHockeyDad wrote:
Tue Nov 01, 2022 8:06 am

Os stepping away - I don't know. They do a really good job of managing the season. Refs are always on time and present, the rosters are always full, never any ice time snafus. The stacking of teams bugs me, at Prospects this summer they spread the top '04's and '05's out over 4 teams and I thought it gave some of the girls a chance to show they belonged with the usual suspects at the top of the Os Rankings. I think having the same type of structure in Elite (like the boys) would make for a more "competitive" league vs having one or two teams already dialed in to Nationals.
Is the "stacking" of one of the 16 and 19 teams done simply for the potential Nationals opportunity/bid?
For sure....it backfired this year when they couldn't get enough of the top 19U team to send a team. Spring break, spring sports, already committed and most of them have closets full of medals.
So they received a U19 nationals bid (Empowers an at large bid?), but declined due to low availability.

Timber545
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Re: Elite league '22

Post by Timber545 » Tue Jul 25, 2023 1:39 pm

InThePipes wrote:
Thu May 25, 2023 6:26 am
PhunnsieMcHockeyDad wrote:
Thu May 18, 2023 7:49 pm
InThePipes wrote:
Wed May 17, 2023 12:15 pm


Is the "stacking" of one of the 16 and 19 teams done simply for the potential Nationals opportunity/bid?
For sure....it backfired this year when they couldn't get enough of the top 19U team to send a team. Spring break, spring sports, already committed and most of them have closets full of medals.
So they received a U19 nationals bid (Empowers an at large bid?), but declined due to low availability.
My daughter was on the team, and yes, the invitation was declined (for a variety of reasons).

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