Congrats Minnetonka -- 5 players selected for Under 18 National Team

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Cookster
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Congrats Minnetonka -- 5 players selected for Under 18 National Team

Post by Cookster » Tue Nov 15, 2022 9:28 am

This is quite an achievement for 1 HS team to have 5 players selected.

At the same time, one can only wonder how all these players ended up on the same team and somehow did not grow up through the Minnetonka Youth system. Many boys teams get raked for "recruiting". How is it that some girls teams escape the same wrath?

I had heard that less than half of Tonka's team is from Minnetonka.

jg2112
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Re: Congrats Minnetonka -- 5 players selected for Under 18 National Team

Post by jg2112 » Wed Nov 16, 2022 7:33 am

Cookster wrote:
Tue Nov 15, 2022 9:28 am
This is quite an achievement for 1 HS team to have 5 players selected.

At the same time, one can only wonder how all these players ended up on the same team and somehow did not grow up through the Minnetonka Youth system. Many boys teams get raked for "recruiting". How is it that some girls teams escape the same wrath?

I had heard that less than half of Tonka's team is from Minnetonka.
Open enrollment!

Slap Shot
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Re: Congrats Minnetonka -- 5 players selected for Under 18 National Team

Post by Slap Shot » Wed Nov 16, 2022 8:03 am

Cookster wrote:
Tue Nov 15, 2022 9:28 am
I had heard that less than half of Tonka's team is from Minnetonka.
If true that's pretty sad and I'm a Skipper grad. I don't expect 0 transfers - it's unrealistic today. But more than half? I'd be less annoyed if they're moving during their youth, but the later on it happens grr...

InThePipes
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Re: Congrats Minnetonka -- 5 players selected for Under 18 National Team

Post by InThePipes » Wed Nov 16, 2022 8:11 am

Out of curiosity, who knows how many transferred in, approximate timing and from where?

PhunnsieMcHockeyDad
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Re: Congrats Minnetonka -- 5 players selected for Under 18 National Team

Post by PhunnsieMcHockeyDad » Thu Nov 17, 2022 1:16 pm

Avar - I think she's homegrown
Distad - Hometown still listed as Burnsville. Came in before 8th or 9th grade
Lindsay - Was at Breck, transferred before last season but I believe has always lived in Tonka
Hemp - Moved from Andover before last season
Klepinger - Hometown listed as Corcoran, came with Lindsay from Breck. No clue how she was eligible to play right away.
Sadura (alternate) - Tonka native

Saw them all last night in Roseville (except Hemp - she didn't play). As good as advertised. The Roseville/Mahtomedi co-op team is going to be pretty good and Tonka chewed them up.

Slap Shot
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Re: Congrats Minnetonka -- 5 players selected for Under 18 National Team

Post by Slap Shot » Fri Nov 18, 2022 9:02 am

PhunnsieMcHockeyDad wrote:
Thu Nov 17, 2022 1:16 pm
Avar - I think she's homegrown
Distad - Hometown still listed as Burnsville. Came in before 8th or 9th grade
Lindsay - Was at Breck, transferred before last season but I believe has always lived in Tonka
Hemp - Moved from Andover before last season
Klepinger - Hometown listed as Corcoran, came with Lindsay from Breck. No clue how she was eligible to play right away.
Sadura (alternate) - Tonka native

Saw them all last night in Roseville (except Hemp - she didn't play). As good as advertised. The Roseville/Mahtomedi co-op team is going to be pretty good and Tonka chewed them up.
If these observations are mostly accurate it's not as gross as originally perceived at least for me.

3 of the 6 grew up in the district and 1 came in 7th or 8th grade.

j4241
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Re: Congrats Minnetonka -- 5 players selected for Under 18 National Team

Post by j4241 » Fri Nov 18, 2022 2:06 pm

Zakrajsheck is also from Breck. And Avar is from the west coast, I believe, and attended Breakaway before starting at Minnetonka. Don’t think homegrown fits the bill.

So 8 of 17, and 3 of their top 4 forwards, one depth forward, their top 2 D, and their starting goalie either played high school hockey or 15s somewhere else.

j4241
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Re: Congrats Minnetonka -- 5 players selected for Under 18 National Team

Post by j4241 » Sat Nov 19, 2022 8:40 pm

Plus, if you want a reason to critique Tonka - take a look at their scoring for today's game against Stillwater. 5 goals for Lindsay - very impressive. Goal number 1 was a pass she intercepted from a Stillwater D, walked a defender and hit a nice shot, and somehow Sadura and Distad were awarded assists. Minnetonka stats this year are offiicially on notice for being a fiction.

j4241
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Re: Congrats Minnetonka -- 5 players selected for Under 18 National Team

Post by j4241 » Sat Nov 19, 2022 8:43 pm

And since I'm watching, goal 2 was a (wild) pass from Sadura to Klepinger, bounced off her skate, bounced to a Stillwater player who directed it with her foot, Lindsay intercepted and scored. Less offensive than goal one, but also should have been unassisted. Sadura and Distad again awarded assists.

girlshockey4ever
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Re: Congrats Minnetonka -- 5 players selected for Under 18 National Team

Post by girlshockey4ever » Sat Nov 19, 2022 10:27 pm

Wait, hang on. We're critiquing a team because officials are awarding assists incorrectly? I logged in and watched the two goals you mentioned because I thought maybe the girls were chiseling and telling the ref they passed it! However, on both goals no player ever even looked at the ref, let alone talking to them. So I'm not sure you can point fingers at any team for the officials being way to generous.

Eagles93
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Re: Congrats Minnetonka -- 5 players selected for Under 18 National Team

Post by Eagles93 » Sat Nov 19, 2022 11:13 pm

Some coaches enter, or later edit, the stats for their team.

j4241
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Re: Congrats Minnetonka -- 5 players selected for Under 18 National Team

Post by j4241 » Sun Nov 20, 2022 5:45 am

I agree - it doesn't look like a player chased down a ref. So either the ref manufactured two assists on his own (or the scorekeeper in the box did), or it was adjusted after the game by the coach, but before either of us saw the game sheet. High school stats are often wrong as reported at game time, but scenarios like this are usually corrected by a coach. If this one isn't, I am inclined to take Tonka stats with a big grain of salt in the future. There are obviously bigger issues in the world, but for someone who likes to analyze stats, it's concerning to see a situation like this so obviously made up (and I watch enough high school hockey games and study enough stats to know this example is both extreme and unusual).

jg2112
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Re: Congrats Minnetonka -- 5 players selected for Under 18 National Team

Post by jg2112 » Sun Nov 20, 2022 8:07 am

j4241 wrote:
Sun Nov 20, 2022 5:45 am
I agree - it doesn't look like a player chased down a ref. So either the ref manufactured two assists on his own (or the scorekeeper in the box did), or it was adjusted after the game by the coach, but before either of us saw the game sheet. High school stats are often wrong as reported at game time, but scenarios like this are usually corrected by a coach. If this one isn't, I am inclined to take Tonka stats with a big grain of salt in the future. There are obviously bigger issues in the world, but for someone who likes to analyze stats, it's concerning to see a situation like this so obviously made up (and I watch enough high school hockey games and study enough stats to know this example is both extreme and unusual).
We call this "a Warroad" in the business. How 95% of all goals have two assists. Go have a look - Warroad's scored 14 goals so far this year, and 11 of them have 2 assists.

Either coaches or the team manager tasked with entering stats know the importance of added assists to player egos.

bodyup88
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Re: Congrats Minnetonka -- 5 players selected for Under 18 National Team

Post by bodyup88 » Sun Nov 20, 2022 10:04 pm

So 11 of 14 is 95% now, not 78.6%? Is that Gentry math?

Lace'emUp
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Re: Congrats Minnetonka -- 5 players selected for Under 18 National Team

Post by Lace'emUp » Mon Nov 21, 2022 11:12 am

jg2112 wrote:
Sun Nov 20, 2022 8:07 am
j4241 wrote:
Sun Nov 20, 2022 5:45 am
I agree - it doesn't look like a player chased down a ref. So either the ref manufactured two assists on his own (or the scorekeeper in the box did), or it was adjusted after the game by the coach, but before either of us saw the game sheet. High school stats are often wrong as reported at game time, but scenarios like this are usually corrected by a coach. If this one isn't, I am inclined to take Tonka stats with a big grain of salt in the future. There are obviously bigger issues in the world, but for someone who likes to analyze stats, it's concerning to see a situation like this so obviously made up (and I watch enough high school hockey games and study enough stats to know this example is both extreme and unusual).
We call this "a Warroad" in the business. How 95% of all goals have two assists. Go have a look - Warroad's scored 14 goals so far this year, and 11 of them have 2 assists.

Either coaches or the team manager tasked with entering stats know the importance of added assists to player egos.
100% agree (and fact). This happens more than people think. Over the years, I have heard of coaches changing stats on the hub the next day (or days afterwards). Players also know how the game works, and they will go to the coach and tell them they should've received an assist. The hub has become the official record, when really, the scoresheet is the official record and needs to be immediately updated if there's an error, which does happen during the game. But once the ref signs the scoresheet, too bad, it should stay as is.

j4241
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Re: Congrats Minnetonka -- 5 players selected for Under 18 National Team

Post by j4241 » Mon Nov 21, 2022 2:39 pm

Some coaches change it on the hub a day or two later in order to get it right, after watching film (which is good and proper - No one should want the scoresheet to be final - that rewards kids that chase down refs. Better to get it right). Some change it a day or two later because no one’s looking and they pad stats to favorite players.

Slap Shot
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Re: Congrats Minnetonka -- 5 players selected for Under 18 National Team

Post by Slap Shot » Tue Nov 22, 2022 8:02 am

j4241 wrote:
Fri Nov 18, 2022 2:06 pm
Zakrajsheck is also from Breck. And Avar is from the west coast, I believe, and attended Breakaway before starting at Minnetonka. Don’t think homegrown fits the bill.

So 8 of 17, and 3 of their top 4 forwards, one depth forward, their top 2 D, and their starting goalie either played high school hockey or 15s somewhere else.
What was Zakrajsheck's school district of address? When did Avar arrive? Again I couldn't care less if they are in their district and decide to leave their private school. Moving in after 9th is what bothers me.

PhunnsieMcHockeyDad
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Re: Congrats Minnetonka -- 5 players selected for Under 18 National Team

Post by PhunnsieMcHockeyDad » Tue Nov 22, 2022 8:49 am

Seems like the West side of town is attracting players at every level. This last week from the Orono Girls' Twitter feed:

"Breaking News: Sophomore Kali Schmidt has been cleared to play for the Orono Varsity Girls Hockey team. Schmidt is a transfer from Delano and led the Tigers in scoring (22g, 15a) last year. “The girls are very excited to have her on the team,” said Head Coach Larry Olimb."

10th grader....don't know the details of the move but if it was a move why wasn't she eligible to start the season?

jg2112
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Re: Congrats Minnetonka -- 5 players selected for Under 18 National Team

Post by jg2112 » Tue Nov 22, 2022 9:47 am

PhunnsieMcHockeyDad wrote:
Tue Nov 22, 2022 8:49 am
Seems like the West side of town is attracting players at every level. This last week from the Orono Girls' Twitter feed:

"Breaking News: Sophomore Kali Schmidt has been cleared to play for the Orono Varsity Girls Hockey team. Schmidt is a transfer from Delano and led the Tigers in scoring (22g, 15a) last year. “The girls are very excited to have her on the team,” said Head Coach Larry Olimb."

10th grader....don't know the details of the move but if it was a move why wasn't she eligible to start the season?
They had to confirm she was bullied at Delano? The divorce decree was finalized? Her parents received official title to their new home?

Am I missing any other options?

Eagles93
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Re: Congrats Minnetonka -- 5 players selected for Under 18 National Team

Post by Eagles93 » Tue Nov 22, 2022 10:40 am

PhunnsieMcHockeyDad wrote:
Tue Nov 22, 2022 8:49 am
“The girls are very excited to have her on the team,” said Head Coach Larry Olimb."
Except for the girl that now finds herself on JV.

j4241
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Re: Congrats Minnetonka -- 5 players selected for Under 18 National Team

Post by j4241 » Tue Nov 22, 2022 11:00 am

Last year there was a discussion about phantom points in a Centennial game, and their coach corrected it. My guess is the correction may have been partly driven by a poster on this board who, upon having it raised, recognized the integrity of the kids stat line (which is impressive) meant more than an unearned assist. Apparently Cassano and the Tonka group care more about unearned assists than integrity - no correction so far on the Hub.

There has been discussion here about stats being kept for the elite league. The reason they do for boys and don’t for girls is because the boys have personnel to review video and get the stats right. The girls don’t (whether they should is a separate discussion). Since video is almost universally available for high school games, the Hub IS the official score sheet (it’s the data that Beau puts on elite prospects), because coaches can (and do) review video and get it right. For what it’s worth, I now am skeptical about stats for Tonka players, at least going back to the start of the Cassano regime.

j4241
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Re: Congrats Minnetonka -- 5 players selected for Under 18 National Team

Post by j4241 » Tue Nov 22, 2022 11:01 am

(To Jg’s point, Warroad stats have long been recognized as a joke.)

bodyup88
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Re: Congrats Minnetonka -- 5 players selected for Under 18 National Team

Post by bodyup88 » Tue Nov 22, 2022 1:27 pm

Well, at the very least we know that Ava Lindsay put up five goals vs. Stillwater. That can't be debated. BTW, we also see that a certain Stillwater player took three slashing penalties and a roughing in that same game in the span of 24 minutes. Impressive. Everyone must be proud.

j4241
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Re: Congrats Minnetonka -- 5 players selected for Under 18 National Team

Post by j4241 » Tue Nov 22, 2022 2:03 pm

True! She didn't score at a very high rate last year, so I assume this reflects off-season work on shooting. Regardless, a fantastic game!

Also true. And that player is consistent in not showing a ton of respect for opponents. Then again, Tonka has 38 PIMS (vs 36 against) so I'm not sure they're a collection of Lady Byng candidates, either. (not to mention 2 goalies knocked out of games in 3 gmaes played)

j4241
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Re: Congrats Minnetonka -- 5 players selected for Under 18 National Team

Post by j4241 » Tue Nov 22, 2022 10:00 pm

I've heard the word "dirty" thrown around recently as a result of physical plays, but a Tonka player (I'm not going to name names) made one of the dirtiest plays I think I've ever seen in a high school game with 20 seconds left in the third - blind side elbow to the head well away from the puck at full speed. That is a 5+ game suspension in the NHL. Honestly, that's a play that should give a college coach pause and make them re-evaluate. Absolutely no place in the high school game for that.

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