Pre-Season Ms. Hockey List

mnhockeygal · Post by **mnhockeygal** » Fri Aug 12, 2005 8:30 pm

I dont know who will be the best of the 5 finalists in college. It also sure as hell doesnt matter either. The award is for the best high school player. You have your opinion on how Ms Hockey works, others differ. Marvin -- a very good player, clear cut deserving finalist. The fact of the matter is she never even got her team to state, and that is relevent because Warroad is not some bottom feeder team -- they have been a top team. So it is very relelevent. More importantly she had the distinct advantage of playing a significant less difficult schedule than SSP. That difficult schedule, along with all 3 each getting 100 points against that schedule (which remember, every single team is gunning for the giant), and the unbelievable accomplishments of that team, and utter dominance of last season made them the top 3 in that 5. If Marvin was at SSP, she would have been on the 2nd line, and thats a fact.

GivinYaTheBusiness · Post by **GivinYaTheBusiness** » Fri Aug 12, 2005 8:36 pm

If you can honestly think to yourself that Marvin is undeserving of winning Ms. Hockey, you've got another thing coming. True, Warroad has a lacking schedule, but can we punish her for that? Warroad isn't a bottom feeder, true. But without the likes of Marvin and Roberts, how good would they be? Ms. Hockey doesn't say that you have to take your team to state, or play the toughest schedule. Marvin is a leader on and off the ice, an accomplished student, and was a very good choice for Ms. Hockey.

mnhock · Post by **mnhock** » Fri Aug 12, 2005 8:48 pm

I have to agree. Still to this day when I watch these so-called AAA tournaments, Gigi is a step above anyone who is there. She has the size, speed and shot/hands that above everyone else. Even some D-I players that play 2 hours north on 35.

mnhockeygal · Post by **mnhockeygal** » Fri Aug 12, 2005 8:51 pm

She was an excellent choice, just not the best choice. You made my point for me. For the life of me I will never, ever understand how you can debate it when given the 4 of them had VERY similar stats, and you conceded there is a wide discrepency in both the schedule and team success, yet you say she deserved it over any of those 3. Think of the logic of that???!!! Any other year, she is a no brainer. The true no brainer this year was one of the those 3 should have won. Among best stats of year, best team of year and maybe ever, and played the most difficult harrowing schedule. Give me a break.

ghshockeyfan · Post by **ghshockeyfan** » Fri Aug 12, 2005 8:57 pm

Here we go again. I thought last spring we agreed to disagree on this - some of us I mean. I beleive that Marvin didn't have the supporting cast, nor SOS, that SSP trio had. Some would say it's a wash in some respects then... Marvin had an easier schedule with less support, SSP trio better scheudle with more support... One thing I was always curious about was if the three would have scored more points playing mixed in with line 2 at SSP last year instead of all together. I guess there may have been the opportunity for them to work with the rest of the team then to play against other teams' 2nd units instead of them all together overpowering other teams' 1st units - which I imagine many teams matched their top line with them - unless they were hoping for their 2nd unit to keep the trio off the board (which had to be a tall task for many teams' first lines). Edited by: <A HREF=http://p074.ezboard.com/bmnhs.showUserP ... ckeyfan</A> at: 8/13/05 11:24 pm

mnhock · Post by **mnhock** » Fri Aug 12, 2005 9:07 pm

I feel its an INDIVIDUAL award. Your team record/schedule or who you played with on a line "should be" thrown out. I know thats not the case. IMO Marvin had/has the best overall skills and thats why she won the award. The SSP girls are all great. Individually - player to player they are slightly behind Marvin though.

ghshockeyfan · Post by **ghshockeyfan** » Fri Aug 12, 2005 9:09 pm

I agree about it being an individual award.

hockey1984 · Post by **hockey1984** » Fri Aug 12, 2005 9:19 pm

your all wasting your time... you guys are arguing over things that are in the past now, there's nothing you can change over what happend in the past, so bashing people solves nothing. besides, THERE'S NOW END TO THE ARGUMENT! it's impossible to gauge how much impact supporting casts or competion makes, you can hypothesis all you want but your gonna get now where. it's funny, i watched Dan Marino get inducted into the hall of fame the other day and the way you talk i'm surprised he got in, considering he never won the heisman, the ms hockey equivalent in college football. point is, at the next level nobody cares who won this or that, its a whole new ball game and the real hockey players shine through. college will solve all your answers on whoes better, so just wait a while and stop bashing people.

mnhock · Post by **mnhock** » Fri Aug 12, 2005 9:21 pm

I agree. Never bashed anybody. Nor did ghs or hockeygal.

brookyone · Post by **brookyone** » Fri Aug 12, 2005 9:36 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>I dont know who will be the best of the 5 finalists in college. It also sure as hell doesnt matter either. The award is for the best high school player.<hr></blockquote> BINGO !!! And that's exactly how it played out last season...and many if not all years previous. I understand opinions on who is the correct choice will vary but to constantly or repeatedly attempt to publicly diminish the validity or legitimacy of both the award and the recipient in a public forum is just plain poor, childish behavior. Here's what I hope...I hope all these young ladies treat each other with far more decorum and respect than disgruntled, bitter, petty posters in this forum do with their unfounded accusations and claims of organized impropriety. I also hope Ms. Hockey winners can recognize these claims and accusations for what they are...I won't type what that is. FWIW, I suspect they all do on both counts. In 2006, may the best player win. And yes, it absolutely is time to accept and move on from the 2005 Ms. Hockey award. To claim the impact one player vs. another may have in their respective collegiate hockey careers is of no merit as supporting evidence to which may truly be the more skilled player, however slight that edge may be, is in this instance a very convenient point of view...IMO. Edited by: <A HREF=http://p074.ezboard.com/bmnhs.showUserP ... ookyone</A> at: 8/12/05 11:31 pm

The machine took my quart · Fri Aug 12, 2005 9:50 pm

I believe selected college coaches vote on this. Someone call McMahon at LPH...

ghshockeyfan · Post by **ghshockeyfan** » Fri Aug 12, 2005 10:11 pm

Machine is right. Agree time to move on from 2005. Lots of great players in MN and that were finalists. Wasn't trying to bash anyone.

mnhockeygal · Post by **mnhockeygal** » Sat Aug 13, 2005 7:17 am

You know what Brooky -- its your type of argument that gives our fairer sex a bad name. You cant come back with any better type of argument or facts to dispute what was posted so you then become high and mighty and change your argument to be one of this is a silly argument and we should be better than that, because then you can rip people who disagree with you and call them names like "plain poor, childish behavior...disgruntled, bitter, petty posters"....Well gosh Brooky, you really put me and others in our place. How dare we have the gumption and gall to post an opinion on a discussion Board. And then to disagree with you???? What were we thinking. The bottom line is this. I dont care if you agree with me or not. I will sleep ok at night that I can make a very strong case, and one you dont seem to be able to refute, that one of the big 3 should have won the award. I have never ripped Marvin, who as I said was a clear cut deserving finalist. Great player. Mostly I will sleep ok at night as here is a newsflash -- this just in -- this is a discussion Board, and its ok for people to give there opinions. If you cant handle that back and forth vollying, perhaps stick to a more fitting forum -like say your kitchen where undoubtedly no on will disagree with you.

brookyone · Post by **brookyone** » Sat Aug 13, 2005 9:00 am

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>You know what Brooky -- its your type of argument that gives our fairer sex a bad name.<hr></blockquote> If you like, and I'm sure you will, you can continue to post in your mature fashion crying foul everytime your favorite player(s) aren't chosen for an award...claiming the award process is rigged and that the ricipients were chosen solely based on their choice of college...nothing to do with their hockey skills because clearly, they weren't qualified (to win) in that regard, because in your view that's the adult thing to do. Keep presenting all your opinions as irrefutable facts too..that's another admirable trait. <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/eyes.gif ALT=":rolleyes"> . One last tip, "our fairer sex" doesn't apply. You and I are not of the same gender. No need for me to "put you in your place." You do a wonderful job of that on your own. Here's my personal philosophy regarding the Ms. Hockey award and discussion thereof. On future Ms. Hockey nominees I'll undoubtedly opine on my favorites to win...pre award. Once the winner has been named I'll offer my enthusiastic congratulations to her and maybe note how I truly believed all nominees were excellent candidates and any of them would have made a fine Ms. Hockey. I'll leave out the backhanded "compliments" on how they were a good choice, but clearly not the best, or even correct choice. I'll also leave any claims of impropriety or lack of award integrity out...because it remains my opinion that is classless and poor behavior. Just my "high & mighty" opinion. Edited by: <A HREF=http://p074.ezboard.com/bmnhs.showUserP ... ookyone</A> at: 8/13/05 9:25 am

mnhockeygal · Post by **mnhockeygal** » Sat Aug 13, 2005 9:46 am

Sorry Brooky, dont know too many men named Brooky. I was unaware it was such a bad thing to be female, so guess will say I am sorry for assuming you were also. As for your latest diatribe, its gotten old now so I will leave you with this. My opinions had nothing to do with "favorites." True, I have followed SSP a little, as well as a couple other teams I have nieces on. I simply stated facts to make an argument, and I believe I made a good one. Stating whether or not one of those 3 should have won is NOT IRREFUTABLE. Its all opinion of course. Never even hinted it was, but then you know that dont you. What is irrefutable is the FACTUAL things I listed, such as: The stats were nearly identical (all over 100 points), the diff in schedule, the diff in team success. But you dont have a comeback to that so then you play the high and mighty card. Sorry that crap dont fly with me. Lastly, get off the damn conspiracy thing. I said 2 posts ago I was now limiting my comments to what i felt should have happened last year and was off the conspiracy thing. While I do think there is a little bias on U of M deal, I was mostly talking tongue in cheek and your the ONLY one beating that horse. Get over yourself and quit your whining.

ARM · Post by **ARM** » Sat Aug 13, 2005 10:09 am

mnhockeygal -- "If Marvin was at SSP, she would have been on the 2nd line, and thats a fact." No, that's an opinion.

brookyone · Post by **brookyone** » Sat Aug 13, 2005 10:31 am

"Lastly, get off the damn conspiracy thing. I said 2 posts ago I was now limiting my comments to what i felt should have happened last year and was off the conspiracy thing. While I do think there is a little bias on U of M deal, I was mostly talking tongue in cheek and your the ONLY one beating that horse. Get over yourself and quit your whining." <blockquote>Quote:<hr>Its a shame as Thunstrom will have a chance to put up some huge numbers and would be a deserving candidate but likely wont get it with this assinine U of M factor.<hr></blockquote> Well, to me the above seems to regard the 2006 Ms. Hockey outcome...doesn't impress me as "tongue in cheek" either. Did I somehow imply to be a member of the female gender was a bad thing by simply identifying I was not a member of the fairer sex? I don't think I did. I apologize to forum members for allowing this to drag on...I don't care to allow false accusations directed at me to go unchallenged.

mnhockeygal · Post by **mnhockeygal** » Sat Aug 13, 2005 11:50 am

Like I stated earlier, I have limited my comments since the earlier post to why I felt the 3 deserved the award and have not said anything about the conspiracy since then, but of course you try and make it out that thats what I am all about. I dropped it, funny you cant. But, good try in trying to imply I am making a big deal about a conspiracy and deflecting the real point, which is you cant handle someone disagreeing with your position on the award from last year. The irony of the matter is you throw out this ridiculous holier than thou routine when in fact and your tactics in this post have been to throw insults at a person who was merely pointing out factual information to support her personal opinion on the outcome of last years award. My opinion may be wrong, it certainly may be disputable, as any SUBJECTIVE matter would be. At least I stick to the argument and give reasons for my points and dont try and turn it into something it isnt because I dont like someone elses belief.

The machine took my quart · Sat Aug 13, 2005 4:22 pm

Cat fight! I guess not. ARM I disagree. These top 5 are all amazing! Gigi was not my 1 pick. She is perhaps more offensively gifted then the rest with finesse, hands and size. I have seen her float back on D a few more times than I would have wished. Perhaps it is because on her team she can barely leave the ice. Roberts also has helped her. They were similar to SSP with their ability to attack the zone, the D and the goalie. Would have been nice to see Selvog with those 2. She has been around from what I have heard. Marvin will need to learn to not be on the first line. She will have good success at college I believe. It may not happen right away. If you watched Gigi play with Nelson at the Senior classic you know that there is no way that Gigi is 2nd line at SSP. Those 2 could not be stopped! No lie goal everey other shift. I think those 2 scored 7 of 8 in their game as they won their game. Young and Fischer were not in the ballpark.... Noone helped Hagen atleast as a DI partner. She is less apt to share some. Her mental determination and tiger attitude is unmatched with the other 4. She has the best determinition and work ethic I feel for college. She will need to learn to share and fit in at Wisc. Great physical play and uses her body in a college way. Better than the others at this I believe. Can play the college game already with speed, body and tenacity. Nelson reminds me of Hagen. A step slower than Hagen but can play physical well and also shares the puck great. The SSP girls all had something that is hard to measure. Chemistry, vision, strong team systems play and supporting cast lines (which are good and makes a team good) the 3 have great cycle ability and years together. They were the top line obviously. It will be interesting to see how Viz places them. I hear they will be split, but that is rumor. It may be a good idea so people will be less likely to judge him or the program but the 3 deserve a shot at it together. That is my dream to watch them go through together. All 3 nice people. As I type it is hard to separate the 3. Just like it may have been for the voters. ALL 3 made each other better, that is amazing team play but this is not a team award. Sorry to leave you with that SSP fans... That is why I chose Hagen. Tough to choose though. If I created a team with just 1 as a college coach it would have been her. What a field general literally she is! She had her team pushing EP At Kaposia! They also rocked some great teams last year! Look at their schedule. They crushed GR twice and that team may be the Section 7 rep this year. Name her line mates... We know Fenstermacher. She lead and owned those younger kids. She was a greta model on and off ice. That is why many believe Hibbing will still be amazing. Great team play like a smaller SSP but with less transfers. The best class A team I felt that underperformed in the final. AHA was a great champ though. These are my thoughts.

ARM · Post by **ARM** » Sat Aug 13, 2005 7:33 pm

The Machine', Sorry, the statement about Marvin being second line wasn't mine; I was quoting another poster. In any case, I agree with you regarding Hagen. I thought she was excellent. Of the senior skaters from last season who won't be playing their college hockey at the U, she is the one who I most would have liked to have seen become a Gopher. I say skaters, because my first choice would have been Ellison -- given the importance of the goaltending position on the team, you can never have enough talent there. Just my opinion, and I'm sure that those who preferred another player, like one of the SSP trio, have their reasons. Not that I see anything wrong with skating on the second line. Krissy Wendell spend large chunks of her Minnesota career on the "2nd" (although any line with her on it can't truly be considered a second line.)

The machine took my quart · Sat Aug 13, 2005 10:18 pm

Ellison was the best player in state last year. I agree. I have seen her play many times the past 2 years. Mostly at state but she is a gem! Very intelligent player, quick, great puck control and rebounds, and she wore a helmut <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)">

ghshockeyfan · Post by **ghshockeyfan** » Sat Aug 13, 2005 11:25 pm

Ellison is partly the reason as to why I believe that "Ms. Hockey" shoudl be a title that could (note I stress COULD) go to a G. Not that any award winners weren't deserving last year, but still like the Ms. D, Ms. G, and Ms. F and then Ms. Hockey idea...

mnhockeygal · Post by **mnhockeygal** » Sun Aug 14, 2005 1:56 pm

I wholeheartedly agree on ellison and actually for me anyway, it would have been easier to agree with her as the winner if "big 3" didnt get it as no one player carried a team further than she did. She gave them 2 shots at titles in 3 years, and if not for the machine they ran into she may have gotten them a title (and nearly did!). Great pressure player -- carried her squad. And why shouldnt a goalie get it, especially one that good???!!!!

puck2005 · Post by **puck2005** » Mon Aug 15, 2005 7:52 am

Tiffany Johnson needs to be included on this list..She gets over looked with Christina Lee on her team. But look what she did the year before without Lee on Wayzata's team...

Icallthemasiseethem · Post by **Icallthemasiseethem** » Mon Aug 15, 2005 8:32 am

puck, Lee will only help her teammates get noticed, when coaches come to watch, they not only see Lee but others. I believe Blaine helped other NWSC teams and skaters get noticed. When playing Blaine the last 6 to 7 years, you could always count on a few college coaches being in the stands. Blaine may have and had the most players going D1. Last year was one of the only years they did not have defenders in the final five. I don't think that will happen again this year. We could see two from Wayzata in the final five. Edited by: <A HREF=http://p074.ezboard.com/bmnhs.showUserP ... seethem</A> at: 8/15/05 8:49 am

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Pre-Season Ms. Hockey List

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